Vote and discuss.
Vote and discuss.
IEI-Fe 4w3
When I saw this statement somewhere "choose whether you want to be liked or admired" I realized that although it's nice to be liked, that's not really what I care about, in the real world. I'd rather have people be a little afraid of me or in awe, even if I'm lonelier than those people who have a million friends. Even if people are outwardly critical but inwardly jealous.
IEI-Fe 4w3
If you're liked, everything is cool. But you can lose this affection very easily, since both persons (you and the other people who like you) are on par so to speak. It depends solely on the arbitrariness of the others if they like you or don't. However, if you're amired (and a little feared, as redbaron said) it's much less likely that you lose this status since others may regard you as superior in your skills for example. I think most reasons to admire someone are independent of the sympathy towards the person who is admired.
I think I read that in Machiavelli's The Prince and I agree with that. Being admired > being liked.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Simply being admired by people seems kind of unfulfilling to me. They'd only be appreciating me for the things I do, not who I am as a human being (unless we have a different definition of admiration in mind than what I'm putting forth).
I guess it mostly has to do with who is doing the admiring or liking, and if I admire or like the other person back. If it's a one-sided admiration or a one-sided liking from the other party to myself them I'm not going to be that comfortable with it.
Admired, getting people to like you is low effort and low pay off. You actually have to be worth a damn to be admired.
Easy Day
Tell me how much you people voting admired are worth and I'll tell you how much I'm going to pay for you. Oh yea, I do dislike some and do like some, I see no reason for former getting to actually like me, quite the opposite.
Oh, I have several in mind when I think about it. For example see this:
He's right about that. People sometimes just like others because they have fun with them or might even laugh about them. Okay, this is probably not your definition of "liking someone", but it's still a part of that. It's also not easy for some people to get others to like them, it depends. But admiring someone always includes respect imho, even if said admired person might be an "enemy" or has a totally different ideology.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
I think I'd rather be liked. Admiration just seems like so much effort. I mean I could be admired if I don't have to deal with it, admired from afar without my knowing, but only because this would mean I'm liked more. So really I value being liked more. I see admiration as something that can enhance being liked and so it has its value there... but if I imagine having one without the other, then I think I'd rather be liked because I think I feel better when I'm liked.
Admiration is pretty and attractive, but I also see it as destructive. It would be difficult to sail that ship since it seems so easy to encounter the dangers. For instance, considering some quite famous celebrities... I see admiration as the worst thing they have to deal with (it's one of the prices they pay for everything else; another price is possibly ending up a slave to materialism). Anyway having to deal with all the fans would definitely, imo, suck. Especially considering that most of them don't even know you and they only worship their images of you... and that worship can easily turn to envy and hate. I definitely wouldn't want to have to deal with that. I prefer being invisible to the masses so I don't have to deal with them. And if I were an actor (as an example of someone who can end up being a celebrity) I would try to aim for roles that wouldn't land me in fame, and I think I would probably prefer niches where I could be personally fulfilled by my roles but just maybe not that many people would see my performances, or would be liable to think the film/production sucked if they did see it... But it wouldn't suck enough that I can't continue getting paid from it. Some actors actually pull this off, though I don't know how often it was intended. I'd have to be interested in my characters and roles and the stories themselves though, as otherwise it wouldn't be worth it. Anyway I think celebrity shows some of the dangers of admiration: fly away narcissism for the one being admired; and worship of people as god-objects to fill one's own insecurities and emptiness for the admirers where admiration can turn to envy/hate as the flip-side that can sometimes fill those holes up better.
Anyway maybe I'm more prone to admiring or being in awe of certain very few others. But I'm naturally very wary of that as well because I fear turning someone else into "God" as then I won't really like them anymore. I won't even really care about them because God is only there to put up with my crap and indulge my fantasies because God is infinitely powerful. And no person is infinitely powerful. Anyway I look over admiration with both skepticism that I'm even feeling it and wariness about what it may mean. The other curious area is self-admiration. I do have some desire to grow my own holiness and I'm awaiting any decision about whether or not I think that's disturbing. But I like being holy to myself and I think I perhaps wish to be more holy. I'm not sure how to describe what I even mean by "holy".
As for others and whether or not they like admiration I can't really say anything I feel about that. I mean sometimes it's cute or adorable. However I think I very much like to avoid those who are totally full of themselves and have managed to amass some sort of worshiping circle. I'm not going to worship anyone. Anyway maybe this isn't exactly narcissism... but people can get addicted to having everyone worship them and I guess I sort of think "have fun with that" about it.
All that said I've felt jealous of others several times when watching the special features to movies/tv shows. And I don't think it's about admiration so much as my wishing to be holy. But I feel it's related. I'm also at an all-time low in terms of being aware of most anyone outside of me. I mean for instance as a teenager there were times I wanted to be popular, but again I think this just meant "well-liked". Maybe the thing about being holy is like being worthy of admiration without having to deal with actual admiration. I don't know. I'm now confusing myself.
Adding on, I agree that admiration can just end up being lonely and although I seem to often want to be alone, I don't really want to be lonely.
Admired, by a hair. I very much like both.
Beta.
What do these signs mean—,
, etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason,
(Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function(extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov
Admired. Not everyone in the world is going to like you. By taking any strong stance, you're going to piss people off. Being liked is for the weak. Being admired is being confident enough to stand up for the values you truly believe in.
Look at any celebrity. Yes, they've annoyed some people, but they're successful. And they've pursued what they were passionate about. And they have followers. Some are generally nicer than others, but every successful person was willing to be bold and pursue their dreams, even if it meant not being liked.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time!"
Oh I don't care.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
Former I guess.
admired. it's been said that only a few people reallly like you anyway. mostly, people either feel neutral or dislike you.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Dude, you're so like... the opposite of me.
Hey, don't insult my dual.
Standing up for what you believe in is something very valuable to me personally, but I don't see why you would equate it with being admired. It's just something that some people admire. Definitely not the main and all-encompassing reason(/basis) for being admired, as you generalized it.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
Liked implies there's a close relationship. Admiration is others detached observing of you. Obviously being liked has more benefits.
I don't need to be admired. I don't care if people would do things how I do them or like how I do things or what I do. I do, however, need connections with other people who genuinely like me.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
I'd rather be liked. It means I can enjoy being me around other people. If I'm admired, there's an image of me people expect me to live up to. And that's frustrating because I'm not perfect and I don't want to have to try.
I'd enjoy being both liked and admired for my character (i dont care so much about admiration for my accomplishments). I'd rather be liked than not liked while being admired, but even though i based my vote on that thought, if it came down to compromising my ethics/moral for the sake of being liked, i would prefer being not liked and admired instead, so i guess it really depends on the situation.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
feared > liked > admired.
Liked.
Admired would make me feel uncomfortable.
I would rather be admired.
IMHO, I really don't care either way.
The way I see both options:
Same shit, different smell.![]()
I'd probably rather be admired than liked. IME, being admired, people tend to listen to you more and you just tend to take a more central role in whatever social milieu you're talking about. It's more responsibility since you're more visible and kind of have to guide and watch out for the people looking to you, but that's not a bad thing by any means. Being liked, eh, that's always been fairly easy to pull, so maybe I'm taking it a little for granted.
It boils down to interpretation as always, you said the same thing I did just adding respect in the mix.
Liking for me isn't doing things for me, as in serving me, I don't want servants who do their job just because they have to. Speaking of respect or liking, I don't think one is obliged to have any under those circumstances, for me, that is.Think of someone who gives up all sense of self-dignity to serve you. You'd probably like the person for taking care of all your shit, but you probably wouldn't respect them.
Depends on situation again, I know and like this police officer, and I know, he knows me, there's no ticket for me. You can scream justice whenever you want. Liking for me is what crazie rat said once upon a time and I find it to be quite good. Bonds, not bondage.Similarly, think of a police officer who pulls you over. You'd probably dislike him for giving you a ticket, but you would probably respect him for doing his job.
It correlates with monkey and elephant.
Yup
He is actually right as long he doesn't bring Dalai Lama into equation, as in Tibetans, for they have a peculiar way of saying something and doing something else, for instance, saying he's the incarnation of Amithaba and then you see Mao's army driving him out of Tibet, saying he has 'no-ego', and 'no-self' but it matters to him where he practises his yoga, hilarious![]()
Last edited by Absurd; 06-17-2011 at 09:18 AM.
I wouldn't really want to live without either. To me, someone liking you is a prerequisite to them being close to you. I mean, if I never enjoy being around a person, I'm just going to stop being around them, and sure I can admire them from afar but what does that do but stroke your ego.
At the same time, it's important to me to have done something worthy of admiration. Not so much to actually be admired. I mean, to me, admiration is little more than external confirmation of what you should know internally anyway. I would love to be admired for my writing. But I'll know when I've written something that's truly worthy of admiration, that is truly well-crafted and permanent. If that brings admiration, wonderful. But I think once I write something really good, I'll have faith in it, and that's enough for me. Now... if there's nobody on the whole planet who admires the work, I might start getting curious as to whether or not I ought to have faith in it, I might doubt. But the admiration does little good for me outside of allaying my own fears, and I like to think if the work is good enough, whether it be writing or acting or producing or singing or whatever, I'll know it and I won't need proof in the form of others' admiration.
So... if I had to pick either a life without being liked or a life without admiration, I'd go with the latter. Because being liked is a prerequisite, IME, to being loved, at least by anyone outside of your family. Finding people to share your life with is among the top three most important things a person can do, I think.
And even if you restrict being liked to superficial pleasantness, well, at least being liked means you're giving something worthwhile to other people. You can call it people pleasing if you want, but we're not around just to make ourselves happy; other people matter (in my opinion). And if no one likes you, you're probably doing something to make that happen, i.e., hurting other people, and that's not OK.
So yeah, liked > admired.
If you broke it down to being liked by others vs. being admired by myself (or at least feeling like I have the potential to be worthy of my own admiration), I guess it would be harder?
Not a rule, just a trend.
IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.
Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...
I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.
but it's so EASY to be liked. I think this is an attention-seeking thing for me, probably. But I don't think that makes me an extrovert. I like to get attention in very subtle ways such that people don't even realize it. For years. And then suddenly they say "wow she's kind of amazing". lol
not that I really care what people think in a way, cause like silverchris said, I like myself and I have faith in my talents and who I am. And I get what people are saying about being liked. I guess because it just seems very easy to get people to like me, if I care.
Maybe I only care about getting the people I admire to like me! lol
maybe a silly thread.... I dunno.
IEI-Fe 4w3
"Admiration is the emotion furthest removed from Understanding" - Bleach
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