What's the reasoning here?

[The Ineffable]

Show me where I said guard dog. If you'd actually read my statement instead of impressionistically reacting to it, or asked me the basis for making it, you wouldn't be showing your ass like this again. Ne base, ho ho.

Why show you where you said guard dog? You didn't said that, I said. You didn't get it anyway, so forget about it.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Why show you where you said guard dog? You didn't said that, I said.

Gold star for you, you're correct. But one wonders why you'd produce objections to points that nobody made.

You didn't get it anyway, so forget about it.

Prove it.

[The Ineffable]

Prove it.

I don't want to. I think any intelligent person can understand what I meant and why your comparison of my means to a shepherd dog instead of a guard dog is inept.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I don't want to. I think any intelligent person can understand what I meant and why your comparison of my means to a shepherd dog instead of a guard dog is inept.

my dog = lab + shep

Courtesy of wikipedia:

• The Labrador Retriever is one of several kinds of retriever, a type of gun dog. A breed characteristic is webbed paws for swimming, useful for the breed's original purpose of retrieving fishing nets.
• As part of the Herding Group, the German Shepherd is a working dog developed originally for herding and guarding sheep.

Oh, so there's where the guard dog comes in. And look, shepherds are capable of both herding and guarding. Imagine how much more fun my dog would have had herding those goats if they'd have ventured into the lake (she loves chasing ducks, beavers, and muskrats in the water, too).

Here's another source, STARTING GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS HERDING OTHER LIVESTOCK:

Debbie Burnette, who has Cardigan Welsh Corgis, highly recommends goats for starting dogs. When I questioned this because their groups break apart very easily. She responded that yes they break apart, but they don’t take off. So, the dog can easily put them back together again. A good alternative when there are no appropriate sheep available. Also, although sheep are known for grouping much better than goats, so many sheep we see today, actually group worse than goats. In some areas, it seems like there are not heavy wooly sheep available to work. No one wants to sheer. Therefore, only light haired sheep which are bad for starting GSDs on are available. However, haired goats can be heavy and therefore are a much better choice for GSDs than haired sheep. If all you have is light sheep in your area, seek out goats.

Cow dog folks often start dogs on goats and then progress to cattle. They find this produces a much better on dog then starting on sheep. Goats behave much more like cattle than they do sheep and aren’t as intimidating for a starting dog as are cattle. After they have a handle on the dog and it has gained in confidence, then they move on to cows.

Hmmm...

About a month ago my oldest dog Ginger and I went to a four hour training and herding instinct class that was put on by the local sheep herding group. Can I just tell you right now? Sheep herding is HARD. Even when the sheep are goats. I literally didn't understand anything in the 2 hours of inside class time, other than our instructor loved border collies, regular collies, even Corgis, but not German shepherds. Which was kind of dumb because half of their class consisted of German shepherds and their people. This woman literally told us the many different ways German shepherds were unsuitable herding dogs. Also? I don't think she spoke english. I've never been more confused about a lesson in my entire life. I had to keep asking people who had done this before "what the heck does that mean?" I'm sure that didn't get old. It really made no sense to me.

We practiced with a titled border collie and I was totally "Yay"ed by the instructor. But I was just walking back and forth, because that much I understood of the "12 and 6". It seems, though, that regardless of what the instructor lady said earlier, German shepherds are pretty good herders as evidenced by my dog's appearance on their mass email about the class. Ginger was one of three dogs on the cover. Isn't she pretty? (and having SO much fun!!!)

One more:


So, Effie, what didn't I get and why should I forget it?

[nanashi]

she was dualized in the setting, Maritsa, so her Ni inertia was less in effect than usual. She was more 'alive' and proactive. She was openmindedly objective in the conversation, pointing out her alleged knowledge of some cases in which non-pasteurization didn't kill people. And she heard the Fi call of your cousin trying to protect you from drinking milk which hasn't been pasteurized (pasteurizing's goal is stated here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization), and she started analyzing your desire for the potentially dangerous thing. And, thinking it might be health and a desire for change from something you found negative about milk from cows, she decided to GIVE YOU THE ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of a potentially less-risky alternative.


* disclaimer:
I don't know enough about the science of goat milk (nor the risks of any of the pasteurize/unpasteurized stuff) to give advice. Don't kill yourselves.

[Beautiful sky]

she was dualized in the setting, Maritsa, so her Ni inertia was less in effect than usual. She was more 'alive' and proactive. She was openmindedly objective in the conversation, pointing out her alleged knowledge of some cases in which non-pasteurization didn't kill people. And she heard the Fi call of your cousin trying to protect you from drinking milk which hasn't been pasteurized (pasteurizing's goal is stated here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization), and she started analyzing your desire for the potentially dangerous thing. And, thinking it might be health and a desire for change from something you found negative about milk from cows, she decided to GIVE YOU THE ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of a potentially less-risky alternative.


* disclaimer:
I don't know enough about the science of goat milk (nor the risks of any of the pasteurize/unpasteurized stuff) to give advice. Don't kill yourselves.

+ a million. Thanks Sounds like my mom!!!

Really? What do you know about it? Is it tested and safe?

The animals are tested regularly for the diseases that get passed into milk. I don't know if they test every batch of milk or not.

The thing about food is you can get food poisoning from so many sources. We got it from broccoli once. It has been in spinach, tomatoes, and i can't think of what all else. I'm not going to stop eating broccoli, spinach, tomatoes, and every other food that can potentially harbor bacteria. (And these weren't issues where it could be washed off.) You can't eliminate all potential for illness from food, and I feel like the milk we get isn't particularly less safe than anything else. The cows are pasture raised, and the worst illnesses come from cows fed grain in a factory farm setting. Grain is not a cow's natural food and it makes them get sick with the form of e. coli that has caused so much trouble in recent years. And in most farms, animals get each other sick due to how many of them are crammed into a small space. I think what we get is reasonably safe compared to what else is available.

I've met the farmer and I've seen the farm, and it seems very clean and he appears to be really careful with cleanliness.

Milk pasteurization is absolutely necessary for most milk because of how the animals are raised, how filthy the farms are, and how the milk is processed.

She did say they test all the time for bacteria and pathogens. I think it should be safe to try sometimes.

[The Ineffable]

So, Effie, what didn't I get and why should I forget it?

Man, take it easy, we were talking about the metaphors. I acknowledged for two times already that it is possible to exist cases when goats can be driven by dogs. Ok I get it, alright? There are dogs of shepherd breeds and dogs of guarding breeds that can't do either, that's not the point, when we make metaphors we're assuming the general case. You can't compare me - or whoever you think I conspire with - to a shepherd dog simply because that's not applicable, but you can compare us to guard dogs, that was the point you missed.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Man, take it easy, we were talking about the metaphors.

I'm feeling quite easy with this bit of sport, old sport. And I was talking about real dogs really herding real goats. To wit:

This is why you collude with a dog to mind the goats, and to track them down if they stray.

Real dogs, real goats. No metaphor, though I could have said "train" or "work with a dog" rather than the more sinister "collude" (though the goats might see this herding as an infringement on their freedom).

1. There's no such thing as dog for goats AFAIK. You can't control goats with the help of dogs, they don't go the other direction but randomly. They also get into dense vegetation or climb abrupt terrain where dogs can't surround them. I took care of goats at my grandma when I was little and I can tell that your metaphor is ignorant.
2. A guard dog does the opposite job than a shpeherd dog. Another misplaced figure of speech.

Real opinions on real dogs and real goats in real terrain with real vegetation. Your real experience with your real grandma's goats. Real rebuttal to a point I never made about guard dogs. Said real opinions have since been shown to be substantially false. No metaphor, unless this is your way of claiming you fabricated your experience with your granny's goats, supposing that she and/or they exist.

My shepherd/lab mutt etc. etc.

Real description of my dog tending to two real goats. No metaphor.

Why show you where you said guard dog? You didn't said that, I said. You didn't get it anyway, so forget about it.

Real admission to a real non sequitur, followed by a real bluff. No metaphor.

I don't want to. I think any intelligent person can understand what I meant and why your comparison of my means to a shepherd dog instead of a guard dog is inept.

Real ad hom, real ad hoc ("No true Scotsman"), and real attempt at obfuscation. No metaphor.

citations on German shepherds, breeder/trainer tips on GSD as goat herders, testimonials and videos of same

Real info on real German shepherds (and other dogs) herding goats. No metaphor.

I acknowledged for two times already that it is possible to exist cases when goats can be driven by dogs.

Show me. I see no such thing in this thread, unless forest dolphins are dogs and digging up oranges is herding goats.

Ok I get it, alright? There are dogs of shepherd breeds and dogs of guarding breeds that can't do either, that's not the point, when we make metaphors we're assuming the general case.

I made no metaphors and wondered why the hell you were bringing them up out of nowhere, just as you dragged guard dogs into the picture. And whether a dog guards or shepherds is more a matter of training than birth, though breeding can obviously be undertaken to produce an animal best suited to a given job or range of jobs.

You can't compare me - or whoever you think I conspire with - to a shepherd dog simply because that's not applicable, but you can compare us to guard dogs, that was the point you missed.

I don't think you're in cahoots with anyone, nor did I ever compare you or your non-existent shadow army with any sort of dog. It's amazing that you'd earnestly think this way, and if this is all a ruse it's even more astounding that you'd think it would be plausible. And don't try playing the "Oh, I misunderstood what you meant by collude" tack either since you haughtily put up your personal anecdotes as a fallacious antithesis to my assertion that dogs could shepherd goats. Since you've been proven factually wrong and are now suspect of compounding that with the moral contagion of pridefully refusing to own up the former, it can metaphorically be said that you've screwed the pooch.

[Slacker]

As far as fantastic claims, yeah I have friends like that, who think it will cure cancer or whatever, and they also think pasteurized milk is poison. Odd. I d believe that pasteurization kills probiotics that could be useful, but I'm more about the grass-fed local thing than anything else.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I d believe that pasteurization kills probiotics that could be useful

Nutritional changes wrought by cooking are much more sensible and likely-seeming to me, too, since that tends to be the general case.

but I'm more about the grass-fed local thing than anything else.

While living in the boonies where said dog herded said goats, I bought milk and ice cream from a local dairy when possible, though they did pasteurize. It is quite nice to know the people and the methods that produce one's food.