Is this Te?

[Rocky]

This is something that I've not only seen in myself, but also the two closest ISTPs I've studied.

but I try not to compare myself with others too much. That would drive you insane.

I do that all the time.

It drives me insane.

I don't know if this is type related, but for some reason if I ever see anybody doing something better than me, I try and catch up and do better than them. I sometimes feel like I have to be perfect in everything that I do.


Oh, and I don't like talking about celebrities either.

Could be. My husband is the same, on both counts. My husband gets very frustrated by not being perfect.

I dont know if its type related but he was ISTP This was difficult for me to understand because it seemed like such a hard way to go. I mean whats the reward? Then theres all that fear of loosing ground and maintaining what youve accomplished. Im too lazy I am a perfectionist to some degree myself because I always see how I could have done something better or envisioned it better than it turned out.

"I mean whats the reward?"

Personal satisfaction.

oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=4061

[olduser]

i always compare myself to those around me. I compare everything: Size, Overall Shape, Extremities, Habits, Social Customs, General Attitude, Intelligence, How they are percieved by others. I attempt to use this data to predict other people's behaviour(at least that's what i call 'talking shit') Observing people is great. But if someone is doing something better than me I would never be upset or angry or need to conquer, i would take a rational step and LEARN from them. And this doesn't mean learn where i ask for assistance, and methods, i take their good ideas and habits- make them my own and add to them.

As far as that being a quality of Te, i think using observation to better yourself and surroundings is a habit of intelligent people.

[Park]

I don't think I relate much to that. I don't think I have it. I do strive for perfection in most things I do but I don't care how I compare to others. I perfect things because I know I can, and that brings me satisfaction, that's all. My motive is NEVER prestige or competition.

edit: oh, and I hate gossip too. I either ignore it or yell at people to shut up and mind their own business.

[FDG]

I do that as well.

Winterpark: my motive is never prestige either, I just "enjoy" the competition - enjoy is probably not the right wording, since I do feel compelled to compete no matter what my physical state is. I don't even want to get recognition. I just like to compete.

Rocky, I'm not sure if I can connect this to . A question: is your wait of competing proactive, or reactive? Mine, is only reactive. I cannot compete against something I do not directly see, for example.

[FDG]

As far as that being a quality of Te, i think using observation to better yourself and surroundings is a habit of intelligent people.

He didn't ask for this.

[olduser]

As far as that being a quality of Te, i think using observation to better yourself and surroundings is a habit of intelligent people.

He didn't ask for this.

don't be a child.

[FDG]

As far as that being a quality of Te, i think using observation to better yourself and surroundings is a habit of intelligent people.

He didn't ask for this.

don't be a child.

Re-read my sentence, and explain carefully where am I being a child. Or maybe contradicting you makes me a child.

[Stormy]

Perception of the similarities/differences between the self and some other entity seems to me to be a perception of a field (of a relationship between two objects), and hence an introverted function - quite possibly , since the field is between two dynamic objects and is external. The act of changing the self to maintain a certain relationship to said other entity would then be said introverted function supported by an extraverted function - involves changing the external dynamics of oneself (how one acts) whereas involves changing the internal dynamics of oneself (how one reacts).

[Creepy-pokeball]

I just realized you are on the enneagram site we just looked at!

[Stormy]

I just realized you are on the enneagram site we just looked at!

...'we'?
-

[Creepy-pokeball]

I just realized you are on the enneagram site we just looked at!

...'we'?
-

Yeah me and the other people in my head I refer to as "chat buddies." Im not sure if theyre real or not but they type back *shrug*

[olduser]

Re-read my sentence, and explain carefully where am I being a child. Or maybe contradicting you makes me a child.

Attend many amatuer magician performances?

[Rocky]

Rocky, I'm not sure if I can connect this to . A question: is your wait of competing proactive, or reactive? Mine, is only reactive. I cannot compete against something I do not directly see, for example.

Reactive, defintately. I admit that my initiative is never great.

[Rocky]

Perception of the similarities/differences between the self and some other entity seems to me to be a perception of a field (of a relationship between two objects), and hence an introverted function - quite possibly , since the field is between two dynamic objects and is external. The act of changing the self to maintain a certain relationship to said other entity would then be said introverted function supported by an extraverted function - involves changing the external dynamics of oneself (how one acts) whereas involves changing the internal dynamics of oneself (how one reacts).

Hmm... ahh... it could be , but then why would someone like FDG have that same reactionary competition?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[detail]

What about static/dynamic? Not that i believe there's a direct correlation since i know statics and people who do the same but maybe more something related to dynamics being less proud about admitting being reactionnary or something.

[Rocky]

Nope, not Te.

Then do you think it is related to type at all?

[FDG]

What about static/dynamic? Not that i believe there's a direct correlation since i know statics and people who do the same but maybe more something related to dynamics being less proud about admitting being reactionnary or something.

I have really no problem at admitting that I'm reactionary, it's just the way I am, the advantages cover the disvantages.

Rocky: all ennagram sx I know have the same mindset. Another correlation is probably T vs F, but only slight. Overall, I can't really find any strong correlation. I know for sure that I'm the worst person I know in this regard; only another 50-years-old ENTj I get to meet sometimes while biking is able to match me in term of mindless competitivness with disregard to physical consequences.

[Eidos]

I don't think this is especially related to type. Personally, I mostly try and compete with "myself". I challenge myself and push my own limits.

For example, if I'm playing guitar, I'll push the metronome up one notch and see if I can cope. If I can, I've done progress. It doesn't matter what performance others have, since I can only be the best I can be.

I don't know if this is type related, but for some reason if I ever see anybody doing something better than me, I try and catch up and do better than them. I sometimes feel like I have to be perfect in everything that I do.


Oh, and I don't like talking about celebrities either.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a low self-esteem issue. For this reason, I think it's important not to compare yourself to others too much. If you rely on others for your sense of self-worth, you are dependent and it will never end, because you can always find people better than you in anything. There will always be the potential for frustration at best and envy at worst. However, if you compete with yourself, you will be far more likely to reach satisfaction because you'll realize you've reached your potential (even if, theoretically, there is no limit either, it is still much easier to get a feel for the "I'm at the limit of my capabilities"). You'll have no regrets, because you'll know you did your best and that alone will be sufficient to make it useless to compare yourself to others.

[detail]

I have really no problem at admitting that I'm reactionary, it's just the way I am, the advantages cover the disvantages.

Maybe statics see this more like a weakness. Also, i know Fs who act competively, though i don't know whether they openly admit it or not so it basically only discards the F/T hypothesis without adding more to other possibilities which involves more general differences that exists between Fs(/ for example, which directly involves the introversion/extraversion factor of the subject's perceiving function). Based on our collective data, if there really is a correlation with type, it seems it has to do with:

1) Presence or absence of pride about not being competitive in that manner.
(correlating with)
2) Being static or dynamic.

Well, i think it just doesn't have to do with type, though maybe statistics would show tendencies "validating" any of the earlier mentionned "causes".

[detail]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a low self-esteem issue. For this reason, I think it's important not to compare yourself to others too much. If you rely on others for your sense of self-worth, you are dependent and it will never end, because you can always find people better than you in anything. There will always be the potential for frustration at best and envy at worst. However, if you compete with yourself, you will be far more likely to reach satisfaction because you'll realize you've reached your potential (even if, theoretically, there is no limit either, it is still much easier to get a feel for the "I'm at the limit of my capabilities"). You'll have no regrets, because you'll know you did your best and that alone will be sufficient to make it useless to compare yourself to others.

I think that absolutely speaking, it's a great answer despite the lack of insight towards the question. Like, someone has to point this side out in order to have a complete discution on the matter.

[FDG]

Those two options are not mutually exclusive. I push myself when I'm alone, and I push myself competing when I'm with others. The latter options is optimal in order to REALLY push your limits, at least in my case, because I would prefer to break my legs, my fingers, my mind than losinig . However, when I do lose, I just want to play more. It doesn't necessarily lead to envy - in my case, it usually lead to respecting the other person's abilities, and try to reach them.

[Rocky]

You'll have no regrets, because you'll know you did your best and that alone will be sufficient to make it useless to compare yourself to others.

Yes but see, that really wouldn't be sufficient to me, because how could I be satisfied with myself if I continue to give up? Even if I never reach the top, I'll be happy with myself knowing that I keep on moving toward it. I just see other people achieving as a motivating factor to try harder.

[schrödinger's cat]

About the competitiveness:

I used to think it's to do with testosterone. Now I'm beginning to think it's to do with . Stratyevskaya wrote something about dominant making ENFps competitive. Of course ISTps and ENTjs aren't dominant - but in both cases your is in a place where it isn't exactly suppressed either, so perhaps there's a connection? The underlying logic seems to be this: = seeing positive potential --> wanting to realize it. The point is, you want to be the one who is realizing it. Everything else would be like demanding of a teenager: "Sit down, stay at home, and read a good book. Isn't it enough to know that someone out there is having the fun you want to have?! Does it have to be you who's having it?"

In my case (no idea about the other ENFps), I'm only competitive about things I'm good at, or things that are important to me. Example: I always walk very fast, and when someone else does it too and overtakes me, it's like they're intruding into my area of expertise. It's like, "hey, this is MY turf, you stay outta here!" Suddenly it's a race and they're beating me.

[Rocky]

it's to do with testosterone.

ROFL

Now I'm beginning to think it's to do with . Stratyevskaya wrote something about dominant making ENFps competitive.

Doubt it, it's not consistent with ENxPs that I've seen. In fact, I'm always trying to get my ENTP friend to be more competative. He's just like, "whatever". I'm like, "Let's practice ping-pong at my house so we'll be in good shape to win the tournament"... "Whatever"... "Do you think you got an A on that last test?"... "Whatever"... argghhhh.

[Stormy]

Perception of the similarities/differences between the self and some other entity seems to me to be a perception of a field (of a relationship between two objects), and hence an introverted function - quite possibly , since the field is between two dynamic objects and is external. The act of changing the self to maintain a certain relationship to said other entity would then be said introverted function supported by an extraverted function - involves changing the external dynamics of oneself (how one acts) whereas involves changing the internal dynamics of oneself (how one reacts).

Hmm... ahh... it could be , but then why would someone like FDG have that same reactionary competition?

Confirmation-bias?
- :wink:

[FDG]

Perception of the similarities/differences between the self and some other entity seems to me to be a perception of a field (of a relationship between two objects), and hence an introverted function - quite possibly , since the field is between two dynamic objects and is external. The act of changing the self to maintain a certain relationship to said other entity would then be said introverted function supported by an extraverted function - involves changing the external dynamics of oneself (how one acts) whereas involves changing the internal dynamics of oneself (how one reacts).

Hmm... ahh... it could be , but then why would someone like FDG have that same reactionary competition?

Confirmation-bias?
- :wink:

Nope, because otherwise you should explain why other people have responded otherwise, and why should I be proner to confirmation bias than the submentioned people.

All in all, I can tell you that what Rocky explained is something that has gotten in my way in going up the ladder of my sporting activity, since I cannot moderate the intensity, and it has always been an issue of mine.

[Park]

I just see other people achieving as a motivating factor to try harder.

(just my stance on this)
Never! And I never envy anyone either.

[Rocky]

I'm willing to accept that it is not related to type, but more of a personal (learned?) quality (although that doesn't seem rational). The only other option is that it would have something to do with subtype, if we are to believe that. Anyway, it would be a big coincidence if it weren't related to type, considering the number of people who it applies to.

[detail]

I'm willing to accept that it is not related to type, but more of a personal (learned?) quality (although that doesn't seem rational). The only other option is that it would have something to do with subtype, if we are to believe that. Anyway, it would be a big coincidence if it weren't related to type, considering the number of people who it applies to.

I hope you're not talking about the direct correlation. I mean, not after reading the information posted by people in this thread.

[Rocky]

Wait, did you just quote the post in which I claimed it may not be type related?

*slaps detail*

[detail]

Wait, did you just quote the post in which I claimed it may not be type related?

*slaps detail*

Yeah, the one where you said: "Anyway, it would be a big coincidence if it weren't related to type, considering the number of people who it applies to." which excluded the number of people it didn't apply to (Those without for example). I was aiming at the arguments more than your actual stance.

*grabs the hand before it lands*