This is something that I've not only seen in myself, but also the two closest ISTPs I've studied.
Originally Posted by Rocky
Originally Posted by Nicky
Originally Posted by Topaz
oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=4061Originally Posted by Rocky
This is something that I've not only seen in myself, but also the two closest ISTPs I've studied.
Originally Posted by Rocky
Originally Posted by Nicky
Originally Posted by Topaz
oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=4061Originally Posted by Rocky
i always compare myself to those around me. I compare everything: Size, Overall Shape, Extremities, Habits, Social Customs, General Attitude, Intelligence, How they are percieved by others. I attempt to use this data to predict other people's behaviour(at least that's what i call 'talking shit') Observing people is great. But if someone is doing something better than me I would never be upset or angry or need to conquer, i would take a rational step and LEARN from them. And this doesn't mean learn where i ask for assistance, and methods, i take their good ideas and habits- make them my own and add to them.
As far as that being a quality of Te, i think using observation to better yourself and surroundings is a habit of intelligent people.
asd
I don't think I relate much to that. I don't think I have it. I do strive for perfection in most things I do but I don't care how I compare to others. I perfect things because I know I can, and that brings me satisfaction, that's all. My motive is NEVER prestige or competition.
edit: oh, and I hate gossip too. I either ignore it or yell at people to shut up and mind their own business.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
I do that as well.
Winterpark: my motive is never prestige either, I just "enjoy" the competition - enjoy is probably not the right wording, since I do feel compelled to compete no matter what my physical state is. I don't even want to get recognition. I just like to compete.
Rocky, I'm not sure if I can connect this to. A question: is your wait of competing proactive, or reactive? Mine, is only reactive. I cannot compete against something I do not directly see, for example.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
He didn't ask for this.Originally Posted by heath
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
don't be a child.Originally Posted by FDG
asd
Re-read my sentence, and explain carefully where am I being a child. Or maybe contradicting you makes me a child.Originally Posted by heath
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Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Perception of the similarities/differences between the self and some other entity seems to me to be a perception of a field (of a relationship between two objects), and hence an introverted function - quite possibly, since the field is between two dynamic objects and is external. The act of changing the self to maintain a certain relationship to said other entity would then be said introverted function supported by an extraverted function -
involves changing the external dynamics of oneself (how one acts) whereas
involves changing the internal dynamics of oneself (how one reacts).
[Stormy] [LII]
I just realized you are on the enneagram site we just looked at!
...'we'?Originally Posted by Jadae
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[Stormy] [LII]
Yeah me and the other people in my head I refer to as "chat buddies." Im not sure if theyre real or not but they type back *shrug*Originally Posted by Stormy
Attend many amatuer magician performances?Originally Posted by FDG
asd
Reactive, defintately. I admit that my initiative is never great.Originally Posted by FDG
Hmm... ahh... it could beOriginally Posted by Stormy
, but then why would someone like FDG have that same reactionary competition?
.
What about static/dynamic? Not that i believe there's a direct correlation since i know statics andpeople who do the same but maybe more something related to dynamics being less proud about admitting being reactionnary or something.
Then do you think it is related to type at all?Originally Posted by Diana
I have really no problem at admitting that I'm reactionary, it's just the way I am, the advantages cover the disvantages.Originally Posted by detail
Rocky: all ennagram sx I know have the same mindset. Another correlation is probably T vs F, but only slight. Overall, I can't really find any strong correlation. I know for sure that I'm the worst person I know in this regard; only another 50-years-old ENTj I get to meet sometimes while biking is able to match me in term of mindless competitivness with disregard to physical consequences.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I don't think this is especially related to type. Personally, I mostly try and compete with "myself". I challenge myself and push my own limits.
For example, if I'm playing guitar, I'll push the metronome up one notch and see if I can cope. If I can, I've done progress. It doesn't matter what performance others have, since I can only be the best I can be.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a low self-esteem issue. For this reason, I think it's important not to compare yourself to others too much. If you rely on others for your sense of self-worth, you are dependent and it will never end, because you can always find people better than you in anything. There will always be the potential for frustration at best and envy at worst. However, if you compete with yourself, you will be far more likely to reach satisfaction because you'll realize you've reached your potential (even if, theoretically, there is no limit either, it is still much easier to get a feel for the "I'm at the limit of my capabilities"). You'll have no regrets, because you'll know you did your best and that alone will be sufficient to make it useless to compare yourself to others.Originally Posted by Rocky
ENTj - intuitive subtype - 8w9, sp/sx
Maybe statics see this more like a weakness. Also, i know Fs who act competively, though i don't know whether they openly admit it or not so it basically only discards the F/T hypothesis without adding more to other possibilities which involves more general differences that exists between Fs(Originally Posted by FDG
/
for example, which directly involves the introversion/extraversion factor of the subject's perceiving function). Based on our collective data, if there really is a correlation with type, it seems it has to do with:
1) Presence or absence of pride about not being competitive in that manner.
(correlating with)
2) Being static or dynamic.
Well, i think it just doesn't have to do with type, though maybe statistics would show tendencies "validating" any of the earlier mentionned "causes".
I think that absolutely speaking, it's a great answer despite the lack of insight towards the question. Like, someone has to point this side out in order to have a complete discution on the matter.Originally Posted by Eidos
Those two options are not mutually exclusive. I push myself when I'm alone, and I push myself competing when I'm with others. The latter options is optimal in order to REALLY push your limits, at least in my case, because I would prefer to break my legs, my fingers, my mind than losinig. However, when I do lose, I just want to play more. It doesn't necessarily lead to envy - in my case, it usually lead to respecting the other person's abilities, and try to reach them.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yes but see, that really wouldn't be sufficient to me, because how could I be satisfied with myself if I continue to give up? Even if I never reach the top, I'll be happy with myself knowing that I keep on moving toward it. I just see other people achieving as a motivating factor to try harder.Originally Posted by Eidos
About the competitiveness:
I used to think it's to do with testosterone. Now I'm beginning to think it's to do with. Stratyevskaya wrote something about dominant
making ENFps competitive. Of course ISTps and ENTjs aren't
dominant - but in both cases your
is in a place where it isn't exactly suppressed either, so perhaps there's a connection? The underlying logic seems to be this:
= seeing positive potential --> wanting to realize it. The point is, you want to be the one who is realizing it. Everything else would be like demanding of a teenager: "Sit down, stay at home, and read a good book. Isn't it enough to know that someone out there is having the fun you want to have?! Does it have to be you who's having it?"
In my case (no idea about the other ENFps), I'm only competitive about things I'm good at, or things that are important to me. Example: I always walk very fast, and when someone else does it too and overtakes me, it's like they're intruding into my area of expertise. It's like, "hey, this is MY turf, you stay outta here!" Suddenly it's a race and they're beating me.
ROFLOriginally Posted by schrödinger's cat
Doubt it, it's not consistent with ENxPs that I've seen. In fact, I'm always trying to get my ENTP friend to be more competative. He's just like, "whatever". I'm like, "Let's practice ping-pong at my house so we'll be in good shape to win the tournament"... "Whatever"... "Do you think you got an A on that last test?"... "Whatever"... argghhhh.Now I'm beginning to think it's to do with. Stratyevskaya wrote something about dominant
making ENFps competitive.
Confirmation-bias?Originally Posted by Rocky
- :wink:
[Stormy] [LII]
Nope, because otherwise you should explain why other people have responded otherwise, and why should I be proner to confirmation bias than the submentioned people.Originally Posted by Stormy
All in all, I can tell you that what Rocky explained is something that has gotten in my way in going up the ladder of my sporting activity, since I cannot moderate the intensity, and it has always been an issue of mine.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
(just my stance on this)Originally Posted by Rocky
Never! And I never envy anyone either.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
I'm willing to accept that it is not related to type, but more of a personal (learned?) quality (although that doesn't seem rational). The only other option is that it would have something to do with subtype, if we are to believe that. Anyway, it would be a big coincidence if it weren't related to type, considering the number of people who it applies to.
I hope you're not talking about theOriginally Posted by Rocky
direct correlation. I mean, not after reading the information posted by people in this thread.
Wait, did you just quote the post in which I claimed it may not be type related?
*slaps detail*
Yeah, the one where you said: "Anyway, it would be a big coincidence if it weren't related to type, considering the number of people who it applies to." which excluded the number of people it didn't apply to (Those withoutOriginally Posted by Rocky
for example). I was aiming at the arguments more than your actual stance.
*grabs the hand before it lands*