Game of Thrones

[Sir Knight]

While I haven't gotten to the books yet, a friend and I just spent a late evening going-on early morning watching all the episodes and, dude, holy shit.

So, the only characters whose types I am reasonably certain of are:

Robert Baratheon: EIE



Once an extremely potent warrior, who led the kingdoms in revolt against the Mad King, now just a sad, fat old man. Clearly traumatized by both the rebellion and the loss of his beloved, he uses the office of the king to do whatever the hell he wants: wenching, hunting, drinking... all seemingly to try and recapture some of his former glory and to fill the void in his life.

Very conscious of threats to his reign and is entirely willing to do even the most deplorable shit (like ordering the assassination of a thirteen year old girl and her unborn child) in order to keep his kingdom secure.

Eddard Stark: LSI



Stern, stable, and very, very principled. Operates completely in the open and despises secrecy and the spy-games in the capital. Very loyal and obedient to his friends, is willing to follow orders he knows are going to cause him no end in grief (like splitting up his family and moving to the capital to be Robert's Hand).

[Aiss]

IDK about Robert, although knowing this forum, I guess he'll get typed SEE or something just because he's a fat drunkard of a king. Extrovert is how far I'd go.

Eddard Stark is ESI, IMO. Makes an especially nice (socionics-wise) contrast with Stannis, who is as stereotypically LSI as you'll ever get. I can provide you with examples if you don't fear spoilers.

Catelyn is probably LSE. Clearly a rational, most likely a sensor. And while all about duty, we know how short-sighted it turns out to be. Lysa is too far from sane to type.

Arya is Se-dominant (possibly SEE), as is Jaime (SLE). Cersei I'd call EIE, but without much certainty. Sansa is probably EII, either supervised by, or conflicting with Arya. I thought of her as SEI for a while, but it doesn't go with Catelyn and Cersei, although in some ways makes more sense.

Jon I'm not sure about, but I'm leaning ILI-Te. Or maybe I just want Ygritte to be his SEE dual. Either that or LIE. Not sure about Tyrion, that's a tentative LIE > ILI.

Dany I dare not type, lest a dragon be awoken . Viserys joins Lysa in mentally unstable camp.

I'm speaking books by the way... far superior, both in terms of overall quality and typing characters - we get a rare in-depth view of the thoughts of many characters, instead of just judging their behaviours, like with other books.

I'm going to post some quotations in my next post, up to book 4. (Alright, even Ni has limitations. I can't *quote* what's in book 5, even if I might have a vague idea of what to expect.)

[Creepy-male]

I'm going to post some quotations in my next post, up to book 4. (Alright, even Ni has limitations. I can't *quote* what's in book 5, even if I might have a vague idea of what to expect.)

Mistyped! MISTYPED!!!!

[strrrng]

I agree with pretty much all of Aiss's typings, sans a few.

Robert is a blatant LSI-Se, has the semi-charming brashness and socio-political stupidity far compensated for by Cersei, an archetypal EIE-Fe 3w4 (same role in 300).

I think Fe-IEI for Arya, probably some sx 4w3. The defiant individualism gets her in trouble, but doesn't grate on Eddard too much (Fi-ESI), as he understands where the hierarchy ends and personal values begin.

Jon is IEI-Ni 4w5. The jaded bastard son who smoulders in anticipation of earning his phalluc right, gets the only 'white' wolf pup, protects the vulnerable.

I figured some Ni-EJ for Tyrion; his composure and emphasis on social interplay as the main power tool, along with the grotesque revelry, seems more indicative of EIE than LIE.

Daenerys is IEI-Ni 4w3 sp/so. Blatant aristocratic tendencies, i.e. maneuvering to win Khal's affection – quite a stretch from their first 'interaction.' Khal is SLE-Se 8w7 sx/sp. "The Dragon" (lmao) is an Ni-EIE 3w4 sx/so... kind of a twisted version of the golden boy archetype, devolved into misogynistic power-tripping, etc. (the "crown" was epic lol...). I'd say Jorah is an LIE-Te, maintains loyalty only to the point that principle is violated, and for the most part is a neutral strategist. Robb strikes me as ILI-Te, also.

The plot overall seems to depict a gamma transition into a projected delta underworld, occasionally catalyzed and subverted by the power plays of remaining betas. The 'game' is ceaseless, but the protagonist is clearly a fighter for honor, blindly I might add.

[Aiss]

Robert is a blatant LSI-Se, has the semi-charming brashness and socio-political stupidity far compensated for by Cersei, an archetypal EIE-Fe 3w4 (same role in 300).

... what? Dualz?

Okay, I'll need to rethink that. Seriously.

I think Fe-IEI for Arya, probably some sx 4w3. The defiant individualism gets her in trouble, but doesn't grate on Eddard too much (Fi-ESI), as he understands where the hierarchy ends and personal values begin.

How could you possibly see Arya as IEI is beyond me, for the real. She's like, the least likely person in the world, real or fictional, to be typed an introvert. Or an intuitive, in fact. Everything about her screams Se-base to me... where she learns and grows is putting things into perspective (Harrenhal, where she realizes her three deaths were wasted, being the most obvious example). That is what she needs. Her POV is full of focus on the here-and-know in a maybe overdone, but inaccessible to Ni way. She doesn't seek Se, having it in abundance, she needs Ni.

Jon is IEI-Ni 4w5. The jaded bastard son who smoulders in anticipation of earning his phalluc right, gets the only 'white' wolf pup, protects the vulnerable.

I kind of doubt it. Reading his POV, Fe is the last thing that comes to mind. But then again, from your comment, I wonder if you've even read the books, or are just typing the actors. I can't deny that anger plays a major part in Jon's thought, at least initially... but being angry and being Fe isn't the same thing.

I figured some Ni-EJ for Tyrion; his composure and emphasis on social interplay as the main power tool, along with the grotesque revelry, seems more indicative of EIE than LIE.

That's an interesting suggestion. Plus, Jon *did* admire him even though Tyrion was a Lannister...

Daenerys is IEI-Ni 4w3 sp/so. Blatant aristocratic tendencies, i.e. maneuvering to win Khal's affection – quite a stretch from their first 'interaction.' Khal is SLE-Se 8w7 sx/sp. "The Dragon" (lmao) is an Ni-EIE 3w4 sx/so... kind of a twisted version of the golden boy archetype, devolved into misogynistic power-tripping, etc. (the "crown" was epic lol...).

Yeah, I guess it is a stretch. Although their first 'interaction' you mention was slightly misrepresented in the movie.

But for the record, I don't mind IEI for the time being. I mean, she's hard to type and that one at least makes some sense. Kind of nothing-else-works sort of typing, though.

I'd say Jorah is an LIE-Te, maintains loyalty only to the point that principle is violated, and for the most part is a neutral strategist. Robb strikes me as ILI-Te, also.

IDK about Jorah, but if Robb is ILI, I'd need to retype every other ILI.

J/k, but that's really a funny suggestion, especially when you call Jon Fe.

The plot overall seems to depict a gamma transition into a projected delta underworld, occasionally catalyzed and subverted by the power plays of remaining betas. The 'game' is ceaseless, but the protagonist is clearly a fighter for honor, blindly I might add.

The overall plot is Gamma as fuck. <3

Seriously though, loving or hating it isn't type related. I don't think you can simplify it as you do, however. For one, who is the 'protagonist' according to you?

[ScarlettLux]

Ha the only people I know who watch this are Betas and Gammas. I fffloved the first 2 episodes but then it got a bit dull. Have to catch up soon. Don't know about the types, really. All I know is that Arya is kickass and I would be attracted to Jon Snow's personality. I think IEI is a good fit for him. Cersei is a cuh crazy bitch... do all of them have to be EIE?

[strrrng]

... what? Dualz?

Okay, I'll need to rethink that. Seriously.

eh, I haven't read the book, but there's a strain of formal, distant endearment I've noticed a few times in their dynamic ("...what do you think holds things together?" "...our relationship?" etc.). I just don't see any other types working for either of them.

How could you possibly see Arya as IEI is beyond me, for the real. She's like, the least likely person in the world, real or fictional, to be typed an introvert. Or an intuitive, in fact. Everything about her screams Se-base to me... where she learns and grows is putting things into perspective (Harrenhal, where she realizes her three deaths were wasted, being the most obvious example). That is what she needs. Her POV is full of focus on the here-and-know in a maybe overdone, but inaccessible to Ni way. She doesn't seek Se, having it in abundance, she needs Ni.

Overall, her expression struck me more as that of a beta NF attempting Se (i.e. overcompensating in conveying her frustration with the lannister's son, wanting to 'prove' her mettle via the sword, etc.) than that of a gamma SF. Though I could see SEE making some sense.

I kind of doubt it. Reading his POV, Fe is the last thing that comes to mind. But then again, from your comment, I wonder if you've even read the books, or are just typing the actors. I can't deny that anger plays a major part in Jon's thought, at least initially... but being angry and being Fe isn't the same thing.

Well, post some quotes, because this thread was started in reference to the show. The fact that the character seems IEI to me has little to do with his being 'angry,' which in the context of an Ni-sub 4w5 hardly comes across as distinctly "Fe."

That's an interesting suggestion. Plus, Jon *did* admire him even though Tyrion was a Lannister...

Jon as an ILI-Ni and Tyrion as EIE-Ni could make some sense. Not sure what admiration you're referring to, but there is the mutually-defective connection there.

IDK about Jorah, but if Robb is ILI, I'd need to retype every other ILI.

J/k, but that's really a funny suggestion, especially when you call Jon Fe.

So, how about posting at the very least a typing of him, instead of using your literary infatuation to set up false pedestals of entitlement.

Seriously though, loving or hating it isn't type related. I don't think you can simplify it as you do, however. For one, who is the 'protagonist' according to you?

Who said anything about loving or hating? I was referring to Stark, as one of the protagonists in the show (being of the family it starts from).

[Sir Knight]

Now that I'm fifty pages into the first book, some thoughts:

I feel that Robert is most likely ExE. He vomits Fe expressivity (especially in the feast scene) and is always trying to get a rise out of Ned, and the entire crypt scene is basically him externalizing his feelings about the events of the war. The problem is that I get a lot of Ni vibes (for whatever that's worth) from his monologues but his constant pursuit of and bawdy descriptions of sensory pleasures seem more Si to me (Though that may just be because I don't understand Si).

Dany is more than likely IEI and I think Aiss is dead-on labelling Jon as ILI. Their POVs both read very similarly, with them passively watching and noticing and suspecting the people in their company and noticing the trends and possible outcomes of their interacting with them without either of them really interacting with anyone. Very heady. Very Ni.

Ned is most likely ESI. He doesn't respond to Robert's prodding at all and, rather than get swept up in the party-atmosphere at the feast like Robert does, he instead just stays very formal and straightforward and seems for all the world to just want to get away.

[marooned]

I like EIE for Viserys way better than ILE. I don't see how he values Ne rather than Se.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Caught episode 1, seems like a decent show even though it's not my usual cuppa (can we not get a decent space-horror show instead of all these dragons and elves?). And Lena Headey is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry hot.

[Sol]

While I haven't gotten to the books yet, a friend and I just spent a late evening going-on early morning watching all the episodes and, dude, holy shit.

books are great (besides "A Feast for Crows"), and I'm waiting when they'll issue the 1st season completely

Eddard Stark - seems for me to be ESTJ (Sean Bean is ISTJ)

[ashlesha]

http://thoughtcatalog.com/2012/what-...e-alive-today/

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

this site is a keeper =i

[JWC3]

Tywin is the Te-leadingest mother I've ever seen. Beyond that I can't decide between delta and gamma.

[Ryan]

Tywin is the Te-leadingest mother I've ever seen. Beyond that I can't decide between delta and gamma.

I doubt it.

[JWC3]

I doubt it.

Why is that?

[Azure Flame]

I'm inclined to believe Robert Baratheon is EIE, not SLE. Unless I have them backward, his beta crudeness seems too sophisticated to be SLE crude.

[Ryan]

Why is that?

It's largely implied that his Ne is weak and it becomes obvious that is so in the War of The Five Kings.



Jump to 1:53. That line and the rest of their conversation says it all. Wiki him if you want to know more. Spoilers and stuff.

[ashlesha]

I'm curious what people who have only seen the show are basing their typings of tywin on because it hasn't shown him enough for me to really form any impression.

[strangeling]

I'm curious what people who have only seen the show are basing their typings of tywin on because it hasn't shown him enough for me to really form any impression.

I saw him talk to Tyrion early in the series and I got to see him talk a lot with Arya. He seems like a serious type, not really merry. Some kind of far-sighted type from when he chastised Jamie and when he talked about the psychology of the Stark guy fighting against him (I don't remember his name). I don't think he's an emotivist, inert ethics, contact logic seems more fitting than the other way around. I could see obstinate fitting him too as he seems pretty firm and settled on political divisions and groups between people (situational Fi/Te).

Signs point to ILI, but I don't know how meaningful it is to say that. It probably fits a 'relation of correction' with Tyrion being EIE (if you accept Tyrion as EIE, as I do).

[Aquagraph]

Just started watching this series and the dwarf is fucking awesome.

[717495]

Tywin is the Te-leadingest mother I've ever seen. Beyond that I can't decide between delta and gamma.

I would say he's my dual, but don't have any one specific explanation off the top of my head - since it's been a while since I watched the show.

Tywin Lannister - ESTj
Robb Stark - ESFp
Theon Greyjoy - INFp
Ser Jorah Mormont - ISTj

Other than that, I agree with all these typings:

I just finished watching the 1st season of the show. I might read the books. What I got so far:

Ned Stark - ESTj. I see that ESI is apparently a common typing for him, but this makes no sense whatsoever—his interpersonal awareness is sorely lacking, he's largely oblivious to others veiled motives, has no guile to save his own ass when need be, and seems stuck on stupid with the whole "doing the right and principled thing." The man is positively not Fi ego.
Catelyn Stark - IXFj [I peg her as ISFj]. Seems quite protective of her family and stubbornly IJ determined in pursuit of her objectives—such as when caring for her son or tracking down Tyrion, etc. Carries herself quietly with little pomp or fanfare.
Arya Stark - Se-ESFp. Physically grounded, with obvious EP disposition. Strong sense of self, knows who she is and does her own thing without regard for what others might think (Fi > Fe). Highly reactive against dishonesty and injustice. Demonstrates intensive attachment to loved ones (Jon Snow, her wolf-dog, sword teacher, father, etc.).
Sansa Stark - ISFp. Her inner life isn't revealed too much in the series, but it's reasonable to assume she's Se devaluing (doesn't put up with Arya very well), is very concerned about making positive impressions (Fe), and assuring that her future life will pan out according to her fantasies (Si/Ne—emphasis on idyllic impressions rather than how things actually are in real-time).

Robert Baratheon - No clear idea on him. Nothing typological came up in the show for me, only that he was lustful, drank a lot, a bit burned out on being king, was a successful military leader, and long-time friend of Ned Stark. E8 makes sense, but I can't place his sociotype.
Cersei Lannister - ISTj [I peg her as ENTj. she seems too Ni focused and what I'd expect from a Te dom]. Severely rigid, calculating, scheming. Doesn't so much as sneeze without it being connected in some way to political gain for her family.
Jaime Lannister - ESTp of some sort seems reasonable, but I don't know for sure.
Tyrion Lannister - ENFj. Quick-minded and charming, insightful of people's inner workings, possesses pragmatic political knowledge and diplomacy skills, an ability to talk his way out of anything, etc. ENTj could be a 2nd guess, but he seems too suave for that.
Joffrey Baratheon - ENTp. Wimpy, narcissistic bitch-boy. Nuff said.

Khal Drogo - ESTp. Don't need to explain this one really, seems like everyone agrees.
Daenerys Targaryen - IEI. Same thing above.
Viserys Targaryen - ENTp.

[JWC3]

I would say he's my dual, but don't have any one specific explanation off the top of my head - since it's been a while since I watched the show.

Tywin Lannister - ESTj
Robb Stark - ESFp
Theon Greyjoy - INFp
Ser Jorah Mormont - ISTj

Other than that, I agree with all these typings:

Out of curiosity, why do you think ESTj over ENTj? Just cause of the duality you sense? I mean, if you could half-ass an explanation even I'm sure i'd get something out of it, I've been back and fourth between those two so many times.

[Jenna]

I don't see LSE at all. LIE

[717495]

Out of curiosity, why do you think ESTj over ENTj? Just cause of the duality you sense? I mean, if you could half-ass an explanation even I'm sure i'd get something out of it, I've been back and fourth between those two so many times.

I do personally sense that he's my dual as a strong impression, that he'd communicate more effectively with Deltas. But another thing that pops up without reviewing the show is S > N - he comes off more sensory conscious and immersed in his immediate environment much unlike how ENTjs are. Compare him with Cersei who I think obviously extroverts herself well (with object focus), but has the iconic indistractable detachment, something of a constant internal comprehensive process same as Tyrion. They're sort of "out of it." I think Tywin's senses are much more reactive and natural, and noticeable in all the subtle ways he orients himself to the world. He's too easily responsive to all his personal senses, finding leisure or any subtle stimulus to really pass off as -PoLR.

I think this video feels very ESTj vs ESTp (Jaime with an obvious block.) Nothing to do with "family values" which isn't Delta-related, but how they seem to contrastively orient themselves to information. Tywin is being very in his body language: self-involved without much of a concern for object orientation. If you know anything about decisive/judicious quadra energy then you can pretty easily tell he's judicious.

[JWC3]

I do personally sense that he's my dual as a strong impression, that he'd communicate more effectively with Deltas. But another thing that pops up without reviewing the show is S > N - he comes off more sensory conscious and immersed in his immediate environment much unlike how ENTjs are. Compare him with Cersei who I think obviously extroverts herself well (with object focus), but has the iconic indistractable detachment, something of a constant internal comprehensive process same as Tyrion. They're sort of "out of it." I think Tywin's senses are much more reactive and natural, and noticeable in all the subtle ways he orients himself to the world. He's too easily comforted in all his personal senses, finding leisure or any subtle stimulus to really pass off as -PoLR.

I think this video feels very ESTj vs ESTp (Jaime with an obvious block.) Nothing to do with "family values" which isn't Delta-related, but how they seem to contrastively orient themselves to information. Tywin is being very in his body language: self-involved without much of a concern for object orientation. If you know anything about decisive/judicious quadra energy then you can pretty easily tell he's judicious.

Right on, ok that's a great scene. The one that sorta sold me was the one where he walks into the prison camp where everyone is getting tortured and Arya, who is disguised as a boy at the time, is about to get the block. When Tywin just basically walks in, puts everyone to work, sets Arya free, and just calls the slavers idiots for wasting valuable labor. Do you know the scene of which I speak?

EDIT: If so, what did you think of that?

[strangeling]

Right on, ok that's a great scene. The one that sorta sold me was the one where he walks into the prison camp where everyone is getting tortured and Arya, who is disguised as a boy at the time, is about to get the block. When Tywin just basically walks in, puts everyone to work, sets Arya free, and just calls the slavers idiots for wasting valuable labor. Do you know the scene of which I speak?

EDIT: If so, what did you think of that?

Ti

[strangeling]

@polikujm
Why do you think Tywin is an emotivist? I could see the argument for Ned, but not really for Tywin.

Why do you think Tywin is tactical? His character seems incredibly collected on what his goals are, rarely changing them whimsically as circumstances allow (contact sensing) as a tactical.

Why do you think Tywin is asking? If anything he seems very patient with people, but firm once he has listened and has something to say. Could you be confusing this with judicious? I personally find the judicious/decisive dichotomy, as well as Merry/Serious, to be somewhat misleading in typing for the less aware because different types within a quadra have different strengths. For example, decisive introverts can theoretically be in between judicious/decisive, as can be judicious extroverts. And when a type is both introverted and declaring, but are supposed to be decisive, it probably gives the wrong impression.

[sarinana]

Eddard Stark: LSI?

really?

He was my favorite character of them all and I was so disappointed when he died. I also love his wife, in my eyes she is everything a great woman should be. I also really enjoyed the love scenes of the Dragon queen and the barbarian. He was so hot that I still question today why he had to die?
Anyway I love this show so much I couldn't care less what types the characters are.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

calling the slavers idiots for wasting valuable labor is usually called Te around here

[strangeling]

calling the slavers idiots for wasting valuable labor is usually called Te around here

Yeah, sure. It's probably stupid for me to argue one over the other, but for the sake of giving an explanation

"valuable labor" is an idea. Are they valuable labor? What are they valuable for? I guess I see Te more as noticing what specific value they have and directing that use toward a "goal". He just kind of told the slavers to use them, even though the slaves might be more trouble than they are worth.
Tywin then assumes "worth" through an idea that they are of worth without knowing what worth they have. Either way, yeah...whatever.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Sho you right, mmm hmm.

[strangeling]

So,

You guys really feel Joffrey fits ENTp and not INTj? He's pretty Ti/Fe obstinate and pretty much an emotivist. His Ne, as twisted as it is, seems more like a creative pursuit, something he produces. Does he fit an irrational type or a rational one? I guess I have no opinion on that since he's kind of in-between, but think LII might make more sense, especially since he's spoiled to the point that he can satiate his ego as much as he wants, making him both Se and Fi PoLR.

[mu4]

So,

You guys really feel Joffrey fits ENTp and not INTj? He's pretty Ti/Fe obstinate and pretty much an emotivist. His Ne, as twisted as it is, seems more like a creative pursuit, something he produces. Does he fit an irrational type or a rational one? I guess I have no opinion on that since he's kind of in-between, but think LII might make more sense, especially since he's spoiled to the point that he can satiate his ego as much as he wants, making him both Se and Fi PoLR.

Joffery is EIE
Tyrion is the ILE

George RR Martin is ILE himself and has said Tyrion is his authorial insert character. Althrough Tyrion is charming or whatnot, he's actually not charming to any of the other characters in the story. He is one of the most hated individual in the entire novel series, he is tactless and thought of as untrustworthy, debauched and evil. No one give Tyrion any respect or responsibility despite his competency and ability at many things. This is because he's largely unable to play the power and social games the other characters play effectively and is naive and trusting of some individuals which he should not be. There's really no way Tyrion is a ethical type.

Joffery is seeking but has unconscious he is quite clumsy at this but he is obviously power hungry, he is charming when he wants to be and is also can pull the wool over a number of people's eyes about his true self. He is also emotionally explosive going from one extreme of emotion to another constantly in the book and the show.

The most obvious LII in the story is Jon Snow.

[ashlesha]

joffrey EIE? i had missed that. i don't think he's good at Fe. i think he's been pretty receptive to Fe from others, like from margaery who i see as Fe creative.

oh, and has anybody else typed margaery yet?

[lemontrees]

I actually feel like tyrion is a pretty obvious ILE... and Joffrey is a pretty obvious Ni creative, to me! Maybe not a particularly smart one, but NTR.

Edit: ...Maybe I am being swayed by Joffrey's eyes? Which is an actor thing, not a character thing. He has that... Ni creative look.

[mu4]

joffrey EIE? i had missed that. i don't think he's good at Fe. i think he's been pretty receptive to Fe from others, like from margaery who i see as Fe creative.

oh, and has anybody else typed margaery yet?

Margery Tyrell is SEI, she supervises Joffery like nobody's business.

base types are more brash with their than creatives, what Joffery does is the EIE petulant outbursts typical to that type.

Joffery's problem isn't that he's got bad but he uses to try to emulate , the reason why he seems bad is he's always trying to command, order other people around with force, it's not bad it's bad .

When he turns on the charm he can pull the wool over people's eyes, as in the killing of Ned Stark, and the courtship of Sansa. He showed good in these situations. Remember, the public don't know what kinda of evil bastard he is.

The difference between Joffery and Tyrion is really simple actually.

Tyrion wants to live a simple life and enjoy all the pleasures it has to offer while learning about stuff.

vs

Joffery wants to rule the world and be king and control everyone.

[ashlesha]

what type is ygritte?!?!?!????

[Zenoa]

SEE

[ashlesha]

i havent seen the latest episode but

 

her little loyalty speech to jon and the dynamic between them (that thing with your tongue) in the one before cracked me up and made me sort of love her. i wouldn't say we're similar, exactly, but her style of awkward honesty is relatable and heartwarming. i didn't really care for her at first (like i didn't feel like she was good enough for jon or something) but now i'm kind of smitten.

(and i don't really have a clue about her type except i'm inclined to say sensing)
(edit: and maybe ST)