Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 345678910 LastLast
Results 241 to 280 of 371

Thread: Game of Thrones

  1. #241
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,099
    Mentioned
    656 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    He killed the King because he couldn't stand his cruelty anymore when he was torturing Brandon. Throwing Bran out of the window was a one time action. He was under big pressure because he had to get rid of the witness. I think every type would be able to act like this in the given moment. I see no SE-Ego relation.

    Instead of becoming his father's rightful heir and having the possibility to acquire immense power he becomes kingsguard that he doesn't have to marry and can going on fucking his sister. He has more of a I don't give a shit attitude.

    I just don't see the typical Beta ST craving of being a part of something. He's more the lonely wolf. But I agree with weak Fi. But besides that he seems untypeable for me.
    I think you're getting caught into some of the bad SLE stereotypes, but Jamie is a somewhat SLE stereotype. The story starts with Jamie being a immature SLE-Se but he changes into a mature into a SLE-Ti by the 5th book. Try to understand why Jamie is a SLE will help you get over some of the bad stereotypes and misconceptions about them.

    Beta is a collectivist quadra due to Fe valuing, despite any rhetoric to the contrary they form disciplined collectives united towards common goals. Jamie wants to be part of something greater than him such as the Kingsguard, yet he is rebellious against it due to other reasons, Kingslaying. Jamie most certainly cares a lot about honor and duty, but because of his relationship with his sister is insecure about his place in the world. Jamie is also a loner but socially active, he has no relationships except his family, otherwise all he has is comrades in arms.

  2. #242
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    946 so/sp SEI-Fe
    Posts
    6,162
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    huh. i think jamie as sle vs. sli is an interesting question...

    sei? no way

  3. #243
    Enoch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    TIM
    IEI-Fe
    Posts
    74
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Birgitte Hjort Sørensen


  4. #244
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,387
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    typings mostly based on the show, but also influenced by the books:

    Lannisters
    Cersei: EIE (LSI actress)
    Jaime: SLE
    Tyrion: ILE
    Tywin: LXE
    Joffrey: EIE
    Myrcella: IEI?

    Starks
    Eddard: EXI
    Catelyn: LSE
    Robb: SEE?
    Sansa: ESI
    Arya: SLE

    Baratheons
    Robert: SLE
    Stannis: LSI
    Renly: SEE
    Shireen: ESE/SEI

    Tyrells
    Margaery: SEI (ESI actress)
    Olenna: XLE

    Martells
    Oberyn: SEE
    Doran: XII
    Ellaria Sand: EIE

    Targaryens
    Daenerys: IEI
    Viserys: EIE

    Night's Watch
    Jon Snow: LII (SLI actor)
    Samwell Tarly: SEI (IEE actor)
    Aemon Targaryen: XII

    People in Meereen (season 5)
    Jorah Mormont: LSI
    Barristan Selmy: LSI
    Grey Worm: LSI
    Missandei: SEI/EII
    Daario Naharis: EIE
    Hizdahr zo Loraq: EII

    Knights/squires
    Brienne of Tarth: LXI
    Bronn: SLE/SLI?
    Sandor "The Hound" Clegane: XLI
    Podrick Payne: SEI

    Other
    Theon Greyjoy/Reek: IEI
    Petyr Baelish: LIE/ILI
    Varys: IEI
    Pycelle: IXI
    Melisandre: EIE
    Ygritte: LSE
    Syrio Forel: ESE
    Khal Drogo: SLE
    Shae: EIE
    Ros: XEE
    Xaro Xhoan Daxos: IEI?

    House Lannister: Gamma
    House Stark: Delta
    House Targaryen: Beta
    House Baratheon: Beta
    House Tyrell: Alpha
    House Tully: Delta
    House Greyjoy: Delta
    House Arryn: Delta
    House Martell: Alpha/Gamma ?

    Dothraki culture: Beta
    Slaver's Bay master/slave culture: Delta
    Night's Watch: Delta
    Faith Militant: Beta/Delta
    Iron Bank of Braavos: Gamma
    Last edited by glam; 06-21-2015 at 10:07 PM.

  5. #245
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,387
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    moved the recent posts discussing the show to a new thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...read.php/49514

    i think it's worth having a separate thread just for talking about the show/books (not necessarily socionics-related). hope it doesn't get confusing

  6. #246
    bye now
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,891
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @glam

    Would you want to explain (briefly or not) why you chose Tyrion as ILE? He's an interesting character and I've got my own thoughts, but I'd like to hear yours before saying anything about him.

  7. #247
    DaftPunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Alps
    TIM
    SiTe 6w5 sp/so
    Posts
    725
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    I think you're getting caught into some of the bad SLE stereotypes, but Jamie is a somewhat SLE stereotype. The story starts with Jamie being a immature SLE-Se but he changes into a mature into a SLE-Ti by the 5th book. Try to understand why Jamie is a SLE will help you get over some of the bad stereotypes and misconceptions about them.

    Beta is a collectivist quadra due to Fe valuing, despite any rhetoric to the contrary they form disciplined collectives united towards common goals. Jamie wants to be part of something greater than him such as the Kingsguard, yet he is rebellious against it due to other reasons, Kingslaying. Jamie most certainly cares a lot about honor and duty, but because of his relationship with his sister is insecure about his place in the world. Jamie is also a loner but socially active, he has no relationships except his family, otherwise all he has is comrades in arms.
    Thinking about his development in the books it sounds right that he is SLE and not SLI. But my SLI typing was not based on stereotypes but on misconeption of Jamies motivation.

    Do you think in general that types with "developed" creative IE are more mature?

  8. #248
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    8,099
    Mentioned
    656 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Thinking about his development in the books it sounds right that he is SLE and not SLI. But my SLI typing was not based on stereotypes but on misconeption of Jamies motivation.

    Do you think in general that types with "developed" creative IE are more mature?
    I would say individuals who develop the use of their creative functions will seem more socially integrated or socially interactive while at the same time more reserved, these are contact but also cautious functions.

    When calling people mature, it is often a social observation of some ability to interact with others, so this is an assessment many would make of creative function sub-types.

  9. #249
    mclane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    TIM
    LIE-Ni
    Posts
    911
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I believe I've got these ones pinned down 100%(even to subtypes):

    Cersei: EIE-Fe
    Tywin: LII-Ti
    Joffrey: LSI-Se
    Jaime: SLI-Te

    Eddard: ESI-Se
    Arya: ILI-Ni
    Sansa: IEI-Fe

    Stannis: LSI-Ti
    Melisandre: EIE-Ni

    Theon: IEI-Ni

    Varys: ESE-Si

    Margaery: SEI-Fe

    Sam: LII-Ne

    The Hound: SLE-Se

    Jaqen H'ghar - LIE-Ni

    Littlefinger - ILE-Ti

    Khal Drogo - SLI-Si

    Shae - SEI-Si

    Brienne - LSE-Te

  10. #250

    Default

    Stannis Baratheon: social E1
    Davos Seaworth: social E6
    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 07-03-2015 at 06:13 PM.

  11. #251
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,523
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    <3


  12. #252

    Default

    Based on the Show. There was a rerun the past month. I rewatched Season 2. Couldn’t get to watch the whole Season 3 and 4 this week though. They start with Season 5 here this week. So maybe I get to catch up on this one. I read some spoilers and watched some scenes (Stannis, Sansa, Jon) beforehand. The characters are kinda 3 dimensional. You know with the books, it’s interesting how GRRM really writes the whole story from different point of views. Trying to get into the characters head and trying to capture their voice and if you take a look at it, you see how very diverse and multifaceted the characters are. You can come up with a lot of argumentations and that keeps stuff interesting. I kinda saw all the characters and the universe like some puzzle. Trying to make the pieces fit. I might change some of my typings when new information comes up or when I think there is a better overall fit.

    The Starks:

    Ned Stark: LSE-Si 6w5
    Somehow fitting the ‚Father‘ Archetype. I think people typing him introverted ST might be right/have a point to. I saw some E1 typings for him. I personally would go with E6. But I think seeing him being part of the compliant triad is not too off. I went with E6 though, because in my eyes he has a more community oriented bent. What I mean is that with E1 it’s more a compliancy to their super-ego, and sometimes to the point against the community. Wheras E6 is more embedded into it and actually has more fears to go against it. He is more of a ‚softer‘ father figure. Compare him to Stannis, who I have down as E1 poster child. Stannis has a way more stern, authorative vibe. Ned Stark (although he is ruling the North) seems more ‚approachable‘ to his people. Presenting himself more in a ‚I‘m actually one of you‘ way towards his people. Pulling them to his side, winning their loyality that way. With Stannis in contrast, the tone is more ‚Follow me, because it’s right.‘.
    Catelyn Stark: ESE-Si 1w2
    Fitting the ‚Mother‘ Archetype. I think typing here as introverted, might be right, too. I personally was leaning towards ESE. I mean there are some LSE typings for her and with ESE as LSE’s look alike, I could see how that is kind of possible. Also like how people say she is quite forceful. I think that could be the case with Se demonstrative. She is for me like the archetype of this down-to-earth, practical minded, mother figure. Like idk.. she has this vibe, that nobody would ever question her standing as mother/what she would do/what lengths she would go for her children/family. Like of course caring for your children is not type related, but with her you get more the feeling that more of her ‚ego‘ is bleeding into her role. It’s like her core. The key to her personality and a lot of things she does. She has this vibe of practical mindedness and she kind of makes me think how she has a lot of valuable advice, based on her life and experiences/things she went through, but somehow it gets overlooked ... funny enough at the end of the day, she turned out right. Idk made me think of this ‚Listen to your mother‘ thing. I could see 1w2 for her.
    Sansa Stark: SEI-Fe
    I also saw EII typings for her. I think that’s not out of the possible. I think introverted-ethical with unvalued Se is probably, what you could argue for her. I was personally leaning towards SEI, because I think she showed, good and high Fe use since the beginning. When she was younger, it was more along the lines of ‚pleasentness‘. In her scenes, you can really feel how she gauges the ‚atmosphere‘ of the situation and responds to it with some kind of adjusting herself/choosing her words carefully. I think more blunt people might be seeing it as her just ‚mincing‘ words. But I somehow see the internal thinking rattling in the background. For me it’s not like she has some kind of introverted feeling rationale (like her sister Arya) but is more ‚managing‘ with her feeling function - more managing ‚others‘ reactions towards her. Like it’s her her ego tactic - trying to navigate, gauging the tone, the atmosphere of the situation and then trying to veer herself through it, in order to survive. I thought that was creative Fe. I could see her and her mother as mirrors. It’s often said, that they resemble one another (also physically). I mean for me it’s like not too hard to see, that overall they are kind of similiar (but not identical).
    Robb Stark: LxE
    I would lean more towards LSE. I think his fathers Identical. I would also see more an community oriented compliant triad for him - E6. EDIT: maybe not E6.
    Arya Stark: SEE-Se
    High Se, very organic and natural use of it since the beginning. I saw also typings of her as an introvert. I personally don’t think of her as an introvert. Since the beginning (while she was still quite young) she is always roaming around, ‚going places‘ and what I mean is, it’s like she always has this massive input via Se. Like she is not building up some sort of introverted rationale/perception of the world first. She grabs Se from the get go. I think EP kind of fits. Wherever she ends up, she kinda gets her ass out, she always kinda gets along. She reacts quickly to new upcoming circumstances. I think she is an Fi ego and not an Ti ego, because she has some knee jerk reactions, where you kind of feel, you are crossing her feeling rationale - this is not right. She also vibes like she prefers to grab quick facts of a situation, that seem kind of more directive – getting to the goal, than building up a introverted logic system, where you just have her utter snippets of it here and there.

    Another example of her Se. I think that was when they arrived at Harrenhal and Tywin Lannister spots her. She was actually running away after Ned Starks beheading, trying to fool people that shes a boy. Tywin sees, that shes not one and Arya is like ‚it’s safer that way‘ and Tywin is like ‚smart‘, like he has an instant sort of respect/liking for her, because of her idk - maybe not the best word... ‚street smarts‘. From the books it’s also mentioned how she always had a good natural understanding with Jon. Jon, who also gave her ‚needle‘ (a sword), before he goes off to the Nigths Watch. Arya remembers it later in the books, thinking of Jon and how ‚needle‘ is Jons smile.
     
    Overall when you look at the Starks, the family kinda vibes Ne/Si. With Ned and Catelyn as the EJ Si creatives for me. I think they are both leading with extroverted judging functions, having some kind of extraverted rationale behind their actions first and foremost, amplified by them being part of the compliant triad. Robb and Sansa are the ones, who kind of resemble their parents the most or kind of align the most with the overall dominant vibe of the family. With Sansa being a bit lighter, more Fe creative for me. Jon and Arya though strike out. I mean yeah Jons the bastard, but still... with him and Arya, they get along naturally. Ni/Se for them imo.. Idk how Bran and Rickon would have fitted in, were too young to say.


    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 03-12-2016 at 03:16 PM.

  13. #253

    Default

    The Nights Watch/Wildlings:

    Jon Snow: IxI
    Idk... There are ESI typings. I personally eliminated everything Se-ego. He is a very idealistic character deep down. I mean yeah... there could be an argument for him being ESI. He is duty oriented. ‚I’m a sworn brother of the Nights Watch‘. So idk. I mean he takes this really srsly. There is a lot of ego involved with him in this. The others are kinda more, well I’m just here trying not to get my ass killed. There was also this scene where Qhorin trolled him. Qhorin was like ‚We are the Nights Watch, we protect the realm‘ and Jon kind of looked at him and nodded. Qhorin just laughed his ass of and was like ‚dude, this is just talk, you know, to keep us warm in the night (to give all this stuff the appeareance of having any meaning). But you see with Jon it’s different, he really believes in it. So maybe that could be a way to argue for ESI. I think he is also a compliant triader, because of that.

    But the things is, I just don‘t see high Se. I think he values it, but with every scene I watched, it’s like he is not really strong at it from the get go. I mean there is some hesistation in him, everytime the situation calls for some decisive action. Like when they catch Ygritte and he has to kill her. He hesistated and she picked up his hesistation and balked. He catches her and tries again, but she is like ‚we both now you don‘t have it in you‘ (or sth. like that). Stuff like this happens often with him and I think people really smell it out in him, hence Qhorin telling him ‚winter is coming‘ ‚kill the boy, and become the man‘. It’s something more along the lines, about Jon having to learn to make the hard decisions and act upon them, if he truly wants to achieve, what he aims for – ‚protecting the realm‘. But it’s not natural to him. It‘s more like he drags himself through the whole ordeal.

    I think, when he becomes Lord Commander it kind of shows at times. I mean yeah he is more decisive now. Like beheading that one guy, who calls him a bastard and disrespects him. He kinda gets that in his position, he cannot let that slip. But still I think it’s not strong enough to prevent what’s happening in the end of Season 5. Idk... I can still see a point in the ESI typings. He is loyal, he is duty oriented. You could argue for Fi. But I was leaning towards weaker Se. You see that’s kinda his arc/what he has to develop. He is very idealistic deep down. 'You know nothing Jon Snow‘ is like the running joke of this show. It‘s like everytime people take a look at him, they pick this up in him, that he is more of an idealist and start to poke. In my opinion it’s really about him having to develop Se and Thinking. Which brings me to...
    Ygritte: SxE-Se

    Leaning towards SLE, I think her and Jon Snow were duals. ‚You know nothing Jon Snow‘ is her poking fun at him, because of his ethical side, his idealism, she is much more pragmatic compared to him and I see Jon more as the ethical type and her as the logical type.
    Samwell Tarly: LII/SEI

    Leaning towards LII, because I think Ne creative.
    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 03-18-2016 at 09:04 PM.

  14. #254

    Default

    The Baratheons:

    Robert Baratheon: SxE-Se
    He peaked during ‚The Rebellion‘ his coup d‘etat. Like ‚Rebellion‘ ‚War‘ that’s where he shined. Idk, I get this impression as soon as he got the throne and the whole spectacle of the rebellion was over, he kind of got dragged down by all the politics, the ‚fine tuning‘ the work of being king. Like he won the throne and his ‚minions‘ should do the menial tasks. He vibes for me, like he always needs the thrill. When there is nothing for him to power through, he starts to get bored and is trying to look elsewhere for ‚stimulus‘ - women, wine, other ‚spectacles‘. It was always like ‚Robert Baratheon is out hunting‘ probably when shit started to bore him and he would be rather out killing boars. Like always on the chase for stuff to get his blood pumping. He has some sort of bond with Ned, so maybe SEE?
    Stannis Baratheon: LSI 1w9
    Such a poster child for E1. There is something in him that still makes me wonder at times. Like you know... could he not be more of a Fi valuer and more of a Delta ST. I mean it’s like he and Ned Stark seem to be kind of idk... agreeing about how stuff should be. Is it because they are both compliant triaders? But then maybe his brand of juctice, rings more Ti. Like there are principles and they should never be violated. Like with Davos and cutting up parts of his hands, because he is a smuggler, although he saved them all. He sets up his system/rationale and then tries to apply it through sheer force. I could see how that could go counter/is kind of antagonistic to Fi. Too ‚cold‘ ? He is more looking at some sort of objective approach, that he wants to apply to all of the people in the realm (Fe?).
    Renly Baratheon: IEE
    (more of a vague impression, could be wrong)
    Davos Seaworth: ESI 6w5
    (compliant triad, like Stannis, Ned Stark, Catelyn Stark and Jon Snow, good counterpoint to Stannis)
    The Red Women: EIE
    (Dunno. Saw people kind of agreeing on this. Will go with this for now, too.)


    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 03-17-2016 at 06:01 PM.

  15. #255

    Default

    The Lannisters:

    Tyrion Lannister: ILE

    EP opportunity grasper. Creative Ti. ‚Talking himself out of situations‘. I think, because of his childhood, the pain he kind of goes through, maybe a bit more focus on his hidden agenda Fe. I don’t really detect too much ego involvement with a feeling function. This is kind of interesting about him. This rather vulnerable feeling/painful side behind the jokster front. (I mean really as a dwarf, getting by in that universe). Really idk... he was always kind of an interesting character, but after the events of Season 4, it’s getting even more interesting with him. Up until he was meeting Daenerys and it turned out into the platitude fest and ohh the favourite kiddos getting together stuff... eh
    Cersei Lannister: EIE-Fe

    Honestly it was kinda hard. I saw LSE and ESE for her. Ok... I really can not think of any argumentation for LSE for her personally. I mean same quadra with Ned Stark after what’s happening in Season 1? Idk... ESE? Ok. I mean you could say that her leading style in Season 5 was not optimal, that she saw things with the high sparrow not really coming? But then again I think having an intuitive function in your ego doesn’t mean that you have gained the gift of sight, it maybe just means you have more of an ego about it sometimes. Idk.. personally think she is not a logical type for me, too much personal/emotional ether swinging with everything. Idk... I also saw Gamma NT (like LIE) typings. I mean EIE and LIE are look-alike types?

    I mean she is really really good with the emotional ‚game‘. Like every scene she comes up, she has this smoothness. She just has this immense interpersonal intelligence. So idk... logical typings because she is cold? I don’t think that being cold makes you a logical type. Just as I think, that it doesn’t make you more ethical because you are a feeling type. I think this ‚cold vibe‘ or what people might call ‚bitchy‘ etc., it’s just a little bit her shtick. I mean kind of her armour, to survive in the political game. I don’t know, when you watch her scenes you see how she is very interpersonal, but behind the smooth talk there is this hard edge of her logic. But she has not an ego about her logical function.

    Her core resides elsewhere for me. I pick up some sort of hot burning emotional drive behind her actions. There was this scene where she tells Sansa ‚the more people you love the weaker you are, you start to do things for them, although you know better‘. I thought this was a conflict between feeling and logic. She goes on ‚love no one but your children, on that front a mother has no choice‘. So now I don’t think loving your children is type related, but with her it’s too much ego driven. It’s the key to a lot of her actions. Her core. I see Cersei/Catelyn parellism here. But with Cersei having a different vibe. In the Season 1 finale (battle of blackwater) they all thought Stannis is going to take the city.

    She sits on the throne with Tommen and tells him she will always protect him whatever happens. She is about to poisen her son, because she knows, when Stannis takes the city, he will slaughter her and her kids (bc he knows they are not from his brother). Also in Season 5 she tells Tommen the following.*** THIS is what she is all about. She fights like an lioness fo those she cares about. She is emotional driven. That’s what makes her sometimes not truly detached in her assessments. She is self aware about this hence ‚the more you love, the weaker you are‘. I think Tywin, her father, which I have as Te lead, kind of picks that up about her. He once told her ‚I dont trust you because you are a women, but because you are not as smart as you think you are.

    ***"We must be strong for those we love. We cannot give in to despair." ... "Your happiness is all I want in this world." "I know." "No you don’t. You can’t possibly, not until you have children of your own. I would do anything for you. Anything to keep your from harm. I would burn cities to the ground. You are all that matters. You and your sister. The moment you came into this world... my boy, my only boy."
    Srsly. Her core is opening the door for the stereotypical despiction of an emotional driven ‚emotional manipulating' for ‚your best‘ person.
    Jaime Lannister: SxE

    I don’t know... in the show he can come across as soft at times, more valuing ethical things, dunno. I mean when they kind of call him ‚Kingslayer‘ and it kind of bothers him or when he talks about Ceersei and how you cannot choose the ones you fall in love with. The last part could be like Fi – static feeling. But then maybe not. You could say he never really opens up on his motivations (until this scene with Brienne) you could also say that he has not really an ego involvement with his feeling function. Like going around and explaining himself, how it was oh-so ethical etc. I could see his father trying to benefactor him. Also gets along naturally with Tyrion (like the only one in the family actually, well until what happens in the end of Season 4). So idk SLE could be possible (Fe Hidden agenda?).
    Tywin Lannister: LIE-Te E8w9 sp/so

    You can see him and Cersei, are kinda are on the same map regarding overall things, but deep down the essense is kinda different, Tywin is more cool in his thinking. Cersei often flares up. If you look at the Lannisters broadly, it’s like Cersei and Jamie are kind of with Tywin in the general ‚scheming' (but Cersei more so, I pick up a lot of underlying respect and admiration, her trying to be like her father). Jamie seems more ‚chill‘ idk. Tyrion is kinda out (and I mean also with cognition, how he goes about things, what he picks up etc., not just bc. he is the dwarf) and only through Jamie he still has some sort of family tie, but he clearly opposes his father. Tywin often vibes like ahead and trying to drag them all along for his quest for absolute power.

    I mean he was really ‚head‘ of the family. After his death the whole family structure, everything is starting to fall apart. Like Baelish noted: Jamie has just one hand. Tyrion well... is who knows where. Cersei is only mother regent after Tommens marriage to Margaery and that title does not hold a lot of power. Tywin was really what held things together. I saw introvert and also doubts about him being E8. He is cold, sober, clear headed in his thinking. He kind of vibes more controlled and not really hot headed. Like if there is a problem coming up, he is not loosing his head. He was the hand of the mad king and as I recall it people where asking if he ‚shits gold‘, because he was good at mananging the realms finances and the comment on his death was: Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold.

    That colder, more sober tone actually reinforces my opinion of him leading with an rational function – Te. He is actually prallels LIE E8 NPA’s like Henry Ford and Joseph P. Kennedy for me. His cold assessment of the situation probably leads to him being a man, that people call to manage situations. So now why do I think E8 and not E1. I mean I see Stannis as E1 and yeah idk... you could say there are parallels or kinda similiar vibe (both on the quest for the iron throne) and you also could say Stannis is rather extreme and it's probably not fair to compare someone, who might be a little bit less extreme towards him, but for me it's like the motivations, that are not fitting. Dig deeper in their motivations and you get a completely different picture. I would have decided against E1, because Tywin Lannister is not in the compliant triad for me.

    I mean that’s not his core like with Stannis. What broods below Tywin Lannisters more sober attitude is an undeniable thirst for power. He was hand of the old King (Aerys Targaryen). When it became clear that Robert is about to take the city and that Roberts rebellion is about to be a succesful one, Tywin changes sides. Like Jaime tells Brienne, his father is no idiot. In order to set himself up on a good footing with the new power on the throne, he orders the killing of Elia Martell and her kids, because her kids would have been next in succession line. Elia gets raped, slaughtered, same with her children. He presents the dead bodies to Robert Baratheon to convince him of his loyality. Then he arranges the marriage between his daughter and Robert – ‚getting his foot into the door‘ so to speak. His core is the ultimate quest for power, not anything super-ego driven.

    Look at Stannis. He held a castle surviving on rats, because that was his duty to his brother. If Stannis would have another elder brother, he would go to war to place him on the throne. If Stannis is not one super-ego driven character on this show, then I’m sorry... nobody is. Look at what kind of person he chose to be his hand. Davos. No Lord, a smuggler. ‚Ser Davos reminded me of my duty...‘. Davos is like for Stannis the more ethical rational voice, he is kind of a counterbalance to bring him back on super-ego track. That’s Stannis core. Tywin Lannister is all about the power. I mean ‚The Rains of Castameare‘ is the song about him. The Lannister hymn. It’s about a Lord, who questioned the power of House Lannister. Tywin eradicates/wipes out the whole house – stating an examplar.

    I mean for me it’s difficult when you look at compliant triad in this universe- Davos, Catelyn, Jon (maybe I’m gonna write more on that after having finished with Season 5 now), Stannis and Ned. They all have something in common regarding their framework. I mean the rest is window decoration (I mean important individual differences, like not everybody from the same type is the same). But the framework is important. I have a hard time personally, to come up with an argumentation for Tywin Lannister to fit that core/that framwork of personality. It’s like you can chip away the decoration, but as soon as you get to the core/the framwork the structure of the personality starts to fall apart. Look what the writers did with Stannis, they made him burn his daughter. People where reeling, people where like this is totally out of character.

    This is not Stannis. They were quoting the book non stop. People just could not see it. They sensed it was stepping too much out of the line/Stannis framework. Now try to do the same with Tywin Lannister. Dare to come near his quest for power. I mean srsly that guy has a gut power seeking energy, that takes dimensions... I mean he even takes himself out of the equation ‚someday I will be dead‘ and wants to build up a structure/dynasty, that lasts for thousands of years. That’s a thirst for power, that is unparalleled. It‘s really amped up in him. He hates his own father with a passion (because saw him as weak and destroying the family name). He schemes, kills, slaughters etc. for this one goal. Look at his background. Elia Martell. Robb Stark. The Rains of Castameare. If you take away all this, his personality would fall apart in itself. With his death the family structure/the Lannisters are starting to collapse.

    And who are you the proud lord says, that I must bow so low? Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know. In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws. And mine are long and sharp my lord, as long and sharp as yours. And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that Lord of Castameare. But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear. And now the rains weep o'er his hall, and not a soul to hear.


    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 05-22-2016 at 09:37 AM.

  16. #256

    Default

    The King's Counsil:

    Lord Baelish/Littlefinger: ILE, ILI?

    Idk... . I saw ILI typings and I read he is a bit different in the books. But Fe-polr and Fi Hidden agenda is really not something I could see for him (in the show). From my point of view, that guy srsly gives zero shits about Fi. For me he also has some creative Ti stuff going on. Compare him to Tywin Lannister, who I think is Te/Fi. He ordered the Red Wedding and if you saw it, it’s horrible. The slaughter of Robb Stark and Catelyn and the other Northeners. But look at it from Tywins POV. He slaughters them, but ends the fighting on that side, and less people will be killed on his side. He can start to concentrate on his other enemies and in the end from his POV it’s more efective overall. So you can see his practical action (Te) spares a lot of lives on his side - underlying Fi current.

    You often have this logical/ethical conflict with him. You could say, that he sometimes comes from a place of responsibilty and necessity. I mean he sees himself/is head of the family. He despises his father, because thought of him as weak and that he did not prove that he can handle situations, so he has ot jump in – see house Reyne of Castameare. If they would have tried to start war against the Lannisters, what would inhibit other houses not to do so as well? Then you would have deaths and instability in their part of the realm. Tywin is all about taking the decisive step in time to prevent sth. like that. Same with the Red Wedding, he kills Robb Stark and you have less deaths. It’s all about the weighting of decisions against each other and Tywin sides with the option that is the most effective in the end. Hence people even say he was a very good hand to Aerys Targaryen and provided stability to the realm.

    So what I mean is that the action overall isn’t really ethical (yeah..), but the choices are often not great to begin with, but when you dig deeper there are traces of his very own ethical rationale behind his decision making process. It‘s introverted in Tywin, valued, but dude is not going to run around and parade what a ethical person he is. There is no ego involvement there. With Littelefinger it‘s different. See his whorehouse. Really they allege to some stuff that’s going on there... like this scene with Varys, who noted how this one Lord likes his boys young and what not. I mean with Fi Hidden agenda, it should be more like he gets the job done, but when it goes against his feeling rationale, he would wonder to what price? But with Littlefinger it’s like he just doesn’t care. He probably sleeps like a baby at night. For him it‘s probably all the same in the end.

    For me he comes more form a place of an internal thinking rationale. Like with his chaos speech: ‚some cling to love, the realm etc... illusions... the ladder is all there is‘. He can walk to the Tyrells and argues stuff there, then he can talk with the Lannisters and talks other stuff there. There is no feeing rationale in the sense, that he prefers one thing over the other (based on some sort of internal rationale, what would repel him etc.) - zero vibes like this from him. It’s more like he is presenting his information, with this detached/objective ‚common sense‘ tinge, but actually somehow it’s also mending stuff how he sees it fit with situation – Ne. Like logic is something subjective, like you can connect the dots how you want. Due to this ‚creativity‘ he has enormous ‚persuasive‘ skills, which leads him to be this good with ‚convincing‘ people of stuff.

    This is also where I think that Fe comes in handy for him. So Fe/Ti? I also remember how I read about how Littlefinger was actually the force behind everything. The old hand Jon Arryn got poisened and Ned Stark replaced him. Littlefinger persuaded Joffrey to behead Ned Stark and starts the whole Game of Thrones. He is very potential grasping in time. He sees the potential of a situation/of new players, how certain situations can develop to his advantage. Like he grasps opportunities and adapts quickly with whatever coming up and then it starts to spread out from this. So Ne? That’s where I think Fi as an internal rationale, would actually be antagonistic to the way he goes about stuff. I’m not really closed off to the ILI typing. I would just like to see how Fi Hidden agenda or Fe-Polr is playing a part in him. Also it might be interesting to look at his interactions with Sansa.
    Varys: IEI

    The intuition soup churns kinda high in their heads. But Varys is more singular. He is also quite idealistic deep down, doing things ‚for the realm‘. Litttlefinger is more thriving on chaos, it opens doors for him, new opportunities arise, that he can derive sth. from. He sees the possible potential from new players in the game. Probably just chess pieces, that he keeps moving. Varys is kinda an ethical type for me, because when they meet up in one scene and Varys starts to talk about some of Littelfingers ‚business‘ you can really feel, how he is repelled by some of the stuff or when he schemes with Olenna Tyrell to sabotage Littlefingers plans and he is telling her:

    "Littlefinger was born with no lands, no wealth, no armies. He has aquired the first two, how long before he has the army. Perhaps you’ll laugh, but I know him better than most and this is the truth: Littelfinger is one of the most dangerous man in Westeros. He would see this country burn, if he could be king of the ashes."


    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 03-18-2016 at 08:54 PM.

  17. #257

    Default

    The Tyrells:

    Margaery Tyrell: Fe creative? Loras Tyrell: -- Olenna Tyrell: Logical Type?
    I think they went with some stereotypical ‚scheming‘ manipulative feeling portrayal with Margaery. I cannot say I’m a fan of this. Takes away depth of character in my opinion. I have no real opinion on Loras. Regarding Olenna - dunno I find it kinda interesting, how she looks at things. Like how she is trying to discern, what a situation is really about, her way of thinking. Like in her very first appereance, when they talk about Loras*** or how in her opinion the Tyrells shouldn’t have gotten themselves into this whole ‚game‘/shouldn’t have gotten themselves entangled with the whole struggle for the iron throne. Idk... she has this kinda vibe that she is against being fooled or blinded like others in their quest for the iron throne or the promise of glory or whatever.

    Like how she despises her son, whom she thinks is just dumb and blinded in his desire to play a part in the ‚game‘. Also interesting how she interrogates Sansa about Joffrey, because Margaery is about to to marry him. Cutting through stuff like ‚yeah yeah he is brave as a lion blah blah blah‘, but what is he really all about? This kinda way of thinking bleeds into her dialogues/mannerism, like you see how ironic, sarcastic, biting she can be and gets called Queen of Thorns therefore. Maybe, because of that shrewd intellect, it’s no coincidence that House Tyrell is the richest House in Westeros and can provide for their people (you know Highgarden as this place, where the whole wheat (?) or something grows). But we’ll see, how everything will turn out in the end for House Tyrell.

    Olenna Tyrell: "Loras is young and very good at knocking men off horses with a stick. That does not make him wise. As for your fathead father..." Margaery Tyrell: "Grandmother! What will Sansa think of us?" Olenna Tyrell: "She might think we have some wits about us, one of us at any rate."
    The Greyjoys:

    Theon Greyjoy: -- Balon Greyjoy: -- Asha Greyjoy: --
    I think Se/Ni for Theon. But dunno more. He has really one of the most hard hitting story arcs. For Asha I thought Se ego. ESFp maybe.
    The Martells:

    Oberyn Martell: ESFp - Ellaria Sand: ESI? - Doran Martell: Ni/Se?
    I think Se base is not too off for Oberyn*** I think I could see him and Ellaria both as Se ego types with feeling. They are kinda chill. Kinda immersed into the sensory world. Like see the brothel scene. Feeling types, beacause of the core of their overall relationship. Like how Ellaria is a bastard, but together with Oberyn, who is kind of ‚technically‘ in standing above her, being a ‚prince‘ and all, but they are like in Dorne we don‘t care about this kinda shit. Bastard or not. Doesn’t really matter. Like they are both not married and their children are bastards, but Oberyn just acknowledges them as his. Ellaria as feeling base, because I thinks that’s closer to her core. Like how she tells Jaimie about her relationship with Oberyn.

    How in Westeros the people might look down on it, but she says here it’s no problem, just like centuries ago the relationship between Cersei and him would have been no problem.*** Like static feeling. Her rationale (as soon as it is worked out) is not really going to change, it remains ‚static, the shit around is what changes and she is looking from her personal angle at it vs. an approach where rationale is depending on other persons like in Cersei or Sansa, to get by in their world of intrigue. They both vibe like idk... they just go against stuff and do whatever they see as fit/going with their own rationale, resisting the feeling rationale/judgement of others. I think In Season 5 you can also see an Intuition vs. Sensing conflict between Doran and Ellaria.

    Like after Oberyns death she demands war against the Lannisters and Doran is like I will mourn about my brother, but I will not start a war. And Ellaria fumes, demands revenge, starts to poke him like ‚how many of your brothers and sisters do the have to kill, before you start doing sth.?‘ Doran is like, I know how war looks like, I have seen the bodies on the battlefields here in Dorne, I will not drag my people/Dorne into this. Like Ellaria demands decisive action here and know. She is more pressing. Doran is more cautious in his stance, more factoring consequences in and because he resorts to diplomacy I think maybe also more feeling (Fe?).

    That's the conflict between them. Ellaria is more rash, downfall can be for her, that she gets herself into something, that she cannot deal with or that starts to get to big for her. Like not factoring all the consequences in. Also see how it went down for Oberyn in the end. Doran is more cautious, downfall for him is that he might never get to take any decisive action, that people get fed up and overthrow him. That's kind of the sew saw between these two poles. Maybe you could argue for Se- Polr for Doran, but it’s kinda said, how Doran and Oberyn are kind of close with each other and the way how their relationship is described, it's more along the lines of both balancing out these poles in the other.

    On a personal note: I found the whole vibe and scenery of Dorne really interesting. Very oriental. The scenery of the Watergardens – really beautiful.

    ***Above all Oberyn is a deeply passionate man, with a hot temper that often leads him into duels and grudges, but in equal measure this also makes him deeply loyal to those he cares about, such as his siblings, his paramour Ellaria, and his daughters. Oberyn's overall attitude is that life is short, and one must enjoy all of life's pleasures while one can - thus his sexual adventures have become infamous, and popular rumor has it that he must have had sex with half of the people he has ever met on both sides of the Narrow Sea. Oberyn is a deeply honorable man, but his philosophy in life is that he doesn't care about the negative opinions of others - he would rather live life on his own terms, openly challenging his enemies and risk destruction rather than live by someone else's rules.
    ***"You think I disapprove, why? Because people disapprove of that sort of thing where you are from? They disapproved of Oberyn and me where you are from. Here, no one blinked an eye. A hundred years ago, no one would of blinked an eye at you, if you'd been named Targaryen. It's always changing, who we're supposed to love, and who we're not. The only thing that stays the same is we want who we want." ―Ellaria to Jaimie Lannister about love.
    *** He suffers from a severe case of gout, which mostly prevents him from walking and restricts him to a wheelchair.

    Unlike his more hotheaded and aggressive brother, Oberyn, Doran is a pensive, calculating, and patient man who always waits and observes before making his next move. Despite their different personalities, the two brothers were very close. While Oberyn could indulge in the wayward Dornish ways, challenging whomever he liked regardless of the consequences, Doran was raised to be more responsible as the heir to the Dornish throne. He truly cares for both his people and his family, and would never make a decision that would go against their interests.

    However, this is often against their wishes. Doran has also been a witness to war and was deeply marked by its consequences. As such, he often tries to find a solution that avoids waging war, even if the honor of House Martell has been offended. This, along with his physical weakness, gives some people the impression that he is weak-willed and can be easily dominated, but this is misleading; Doran is just as ruthless and decisive as any other member of House Martell. He's simply better at hiding it - until the moment that he strikes.

    I am not blind, nor deaf. I know you all believe me weak, frightened, feeble. Your father knew me better. Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him. I was the grass. Pleasant, complaisant, sweet-smelling, swaying with every breeze. Who fears to walk upon the grass? But it is the grass that hides the viper from his enemies and shelters him until he strikes. - Doran to the Sand Snakes

    [Doran] is a cautious man, a reasoned man, subtle, deliberate, even indolent to a degree. He is a man who weighs the consequences of every word and every action. – Tywin Lannister to Tyrion Lannister

    "Many in Dorne want war. But I've seen war. I've seen the bodies piled on the battlefields. I've seen the orphans starving in the cities. I don't want to lead my people into that hell." ―Doran Martell

    I have worked at the downfall of Tywin Lannister since the day they told me of Elia and her children. - Doran to Arianne Martell

    Your father keeps his secrets well, Prince Quentyn. Too well, I fear. - Barristan Selmy to Quentyn Martell


    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 03-12-2016 at 03:43 PM.

  18. #258
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,523
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Nymeria

    I will agree with you, the character of Margaery does seem fairly one dimensional. A behind the scenes interview reveals that the show's writers attempted to give her more depth than is apparent in the novels. That she has any complexity is a consequence of the actress's ability more than anything. Natalie Dormer just has this almost fatalistic feminine presence to her; very present, alert, a hint of world weary kindness behind the formidable persona.

    That she so easily manipulated Joffery, much to Cersei's umbrage, shows an interesting facet to the Lannister family, a kind of sycophancy that reveals a obvious weakness. In the same light, underneath the coniving and posturing, there is a nobility to the Tyrell family characters that just falls short of the Stark's rightousness. Its as though Margaery can see the correctness of things, but a pragmatic "counting of coins" holds her actions in check, she is not entirelly driven by ambition. Although there is a compassion there. I do not see the Tyrells either as totally complicit in their pursuit of the top spots as say the Lannisters are, but they do know how to play the game.

  19. #259

    Default

    I will agree with you, the character of Margaery does seem fairly one dimensional. [1] A behind the scenes interview reveals that the show's writers attempted to give her more depth than is apparent in the novels. That she has any complexity is a consequence of the actress's ability more than anything. Natalie Dormer just has this almost fatalistic feminine presence to her; very present, alert, a hint of world weary kindness behind the formidable persona.

    [2] That she so easily manipulated Joffery, much to Cersei's umbrage, shows an interesting facet to the Lannister family, a kind of sycophancy that reveals a obvious weakness. In the same light, underneath the coniving and posturing, there is a nobility to the Tyrell family characters that just falls short of the Stark's rightousness. Its as though Margaery can see the correctness of things, [3] but a pragmatic "counting of coins" holds her actions in check, she is not entirelly driven by ambition. Although there is a compassion there. I do not see the Tyrells either as totally complicit in their pursuit of the top spots as say the Lannisters are, but they do know how to play the game.
    [1] Ahh... ok. See I’ll give you my perception. For me her portrayal was like some cheap sketch of a ‚ambitious‘, ‚manipulative‘ feeling person. You know all about the pleasentness with a smirk thrown in here and there. You get little material what she is all about. What is her motivation (besides being ‚the queen‘). I mean it’s like all veneer, but it’s like I personally could not really grasp... well something that goes deeper.

    [2] Yeah... thats an interesting thought. I mean, I always thought the achilles heel of the Lannisters were their interpersonal dramatics. Cersei vs. Tyrion. Tyrion vs. Tywin. Cersei vs. Tywin. Jaime like standing there... wuh. They was no real unity. They were tearing themselves apart, before anybody else got the chance to do so. You could really see the contrast with the Tyrells. The Lannisters are more like one hand didn’t knew, what the other was doing/planning.

    The Tyrells have more of this vibe that if one person was in, the whole family was in. Loras supports Renly – the Tyrells go to war. There is more of a bond between the family members. More of a unit. Also like when Olenna asks about Joffrey character and her part in the purple wedding. I think this way of handling things just bleeds out everywhere. I mean I agree... the Tyrells have a very ‚political‘ ‚pragmatic‘ ("counting of coins") vibe.

    [3] (... they do know how to play the game). What I mean is like during the rebellion, when they sided with Robert, because it became clear to them that his rebellion might indeed become a successful one. I mean the Tyrells have this standing for me like, they don’t really have deeply woven ‚loyality‘ ties with any of the houses. They will side with what’s best for them in the end. You could say opportunistic, you could also say pragmatic and I mean they are the richest house in Westeros.

    That’s where I see some parallels with House Martell. The Martells are another house, who don’t really have these strong ‚loyality ties‘. Their driving force is the revenge of Elia. But their kingdom lies very south and like I said don’t really have any real reason to ally themselves with other houses. I mean like the Tyrells they would only provide the resources, they would give and would loose sth. without really having anything to gain.

    So that’s where I found Doran and Olenna interesting. Like with Doran (I’m the grass. I’m the grass... lmao... awesome), he is bound to his wheelchair, he will probably not go down in dornish history as the guy, who rode all the way to Kings Landing and slayed Tywin Lannister with his bare hands. But he may play the role of someone, who made the decision to keep Dorne out of this, instead of blindly/mindlessly dishing out, so that when they real conflict starts to brew, where Dorne has to get involved, they will still have the resources to do so.

    And with Olenna you get the feeling that she has this shrewdness. You know sth. like, know the ‚truth‘ about yourself, so that you reckognize the lie in someone else. Like with all the talk about ‚oh we are the Tyrells‘ ‚roses and stuff‘, I mean look at the Starks ‚Winter is coming‘, well that’s a family motto. Like she can poke a bit fun at herself and everything. (I do not see the Tyrells either as totally complicit in their pursuit of the top spots as say the Lannisters...)

    Yeah what I see is that with these 2 you have people who are trying not to loose their head over the game. You know like an awareness about what the quest for power really entails, what sacrifices and decisions have to be made at times and they like are trying to not cause too much damage to their respective kingdoms. Like I mean I stumbled upon this blog one day
    http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/ (it's more dealing with the books)

    And you see in the books it’s even much more complex. I mean this is just skimming the surface of things. You see on that big of a scale everything is going to develop it’s own dynamic. Like Cersei says in the show: No matter who you are, no matter how strong you are, sooner or later, you'll face circumstances beyond your control. Events you couldn't possibly have anticipated or prevented even if you had. You cannot blame yourself for fate.

    I'm a bit tired today, sorry if it's too much of a rant...
    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 03-18-2016 at 08:49 PM.

  20. #260

    Default

    I have thought more about the whole contrast between the Lannisters and Tyrells (especially about the women of the family) and about Margaery as a character. I mean I have written about this scene where they interrogated Sansa about Joffrey, because Olennas mindset just caught my interest. They come to know what Joffrey is about and it’s like form there on their plan (or Olennas) for the Purple Wedding is formed.

    I think as women of their time, in their positions, they often just had to bow to the general ‚family ambition‘ and marry, who they got told to marry. Like when Tywin marries Cersei off to Robert and then later this scene where Tywin orders Cersei to marry Loras and she is like ‚father don‘t make me do that again‘ and you can feel the sheer panic. But with the Tyrells you get the feeling, that Olenna as head of the family, it‘s like she kind of knows how it just is and that she tries to spare her granddaughter the worst.

    I mean here Olennas background*** She just maneuvered around, so that she didn’t have to marry the dude she didn’t wanted to and settled for someone of her decision. That’s where I think the Tyrells family member don’t turn against each other so heavily. There is less resentment. Idk more looking out for each other. Yes I know I kind of throw some book quotes and show together and of course I don’t do the whole complexity of everything much justice and maybe I read some motivations wrong.

    It’s just a little bit some stuff I throw around. Some vague thoughts. Like how different families deal with family members and the whole dynamic that develops therefore. Like with Cersei how everyone just sees her as this ‚bitchy‘ and 'cold', but I mean the question is why is she like that? What made her to be like that. And if you read how she experiences her role in the family, you might understand why she is not running around like little miss sunshine and all.

    Like that she maybe has to be this way out of necssity. To survive in the snake pit that is Kings Landing. Also with Catelyn Stark (where I saw parallels with Cersei). Like she has this immense sense of duty regarding her family and children. And she goes on and on and on. Warning her son Robb about Walder Frey, but it‘s always like her voice never really gets heard and you get the feeling how she starts to tire.

    Olenna: In her youth, Olenna Redwyne was engaged to a member of House Targaryen, as it was "all the rage" at the time; it was her sister Viola whom Luthor Tyrell was expected to marry. The night before Luthor was to propose to Viola, Olenna snuck into his chamber and seduced him, leaving him "unable to walk downstairs" the next day to propose to Viola. Olenna did this because the thought of marrying a Targaryen and his "ludicrous silver hair" did not appeal to her.
    Cersei: “When we were little, Jaime and I were so much alike that even our lord father could not tell us apart. Sometimes as a lark we would dress in each other’s clothes and spend a whole day each as the other. Yet even so, when Jaime was given his first sword, there was none for me. ‘What do I get?’ I remember asking. We were so much alike, I could never understand why they treated us so differently. Jaime learned to fight with sword and lance and mace, while I was taught to smile and sing and please. He was heir to Casterly Rock, while I was to be sold to some stranger like a horse, to be ridden whenever my new owner liked, beaten whenever he liked, and cast aside in time for a younger filly. Jaime’s lot was to be glory and power, while mine was birth and moonblood.”
    Catelyn: “I keep remembering the Stark words. Winter has come, Father. For me. For me. Robb must fight the Greyjoys now as well as the Lannisters, and for what? For a gold hat and an iron chair? Surely the land has bled enough. I want my girls back, I want Robb to lay down his sword and pick some homely daughter of Walder Frey to make him happy and give him sons. I want Bran and Rickon back, I want…” Catelyn hung her head. “I want,” she said once more, and then her words were gone."
    I don’t know. Maybe it doesn’t capture everything, but when I think of Catelyn, I always think of that passage. It captures her at her most fundamental - as a mother who loves her children so deeply, who wants to protect them and knows that she can’t do that for them all. It also looks to Catelyn’s role as a woman in Westerosi society, and how expectations can be jarred violently out of place by reality. Do your duty, Catelyn Tully, obey your father, marry the man he says you should marry, bear his children, and everything will be fine. But, of course, everything isn’t fine: her lord father is dying, her husband was killed by their political enemies, and now she must watch her brother and uncle and son risk their lives in battle. Her smile is wan and tired because she herself is tired - tired of worrying about her scattered, broken pack, tired of the bloodshed and folly of war. At the same time, she’s still a woman of her time and place: it is only because all of her male relations are away that Brienne - brave, honorable Brienne - must take the men’s place, protecting her as her sworn shield.
    From here:
    http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/140519862776/same-ask-about-characters-defining-moment-for

    Like how that was just the reality of their situation and how it formed their characters. And that’s what I mean. Like here you see ‚character defining‘ depth. Like Cersei being that way, maybe to protect herself. How Catelyn always has to fight and fight, but it feels like she never get heard out. Like the whole influence of how their position, or their duties, or their role in the family and the time they lived in just shaped them. And then the contrast to Maergary and her 'portrayal' and ‚I want to be the queen‘ etc. which in contrast to the others just sounded and felt flat to me.

    yeah I know, she is young (but so are other characters in the show/book) and we don't get a lot of access to her thoughts.
    Last edited by Moonbeaux Rainfox; 03-18-2016 at 08:51 PM.

  21. #261
    rougerogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    243
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think Cersei is EIE. More likely she is ESE. At least in the show.

    She doesn't consider the future implications of her actions. She thinks I'm a black and white way. "Power is power"
    She got herself stuck in religious prison by the people she put in power. She's a fool.

  22. #262

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    ESI 684
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    GoT = who gives a fuck about fucking?

    Is actually quite witty commentary on modern society by GRR . Not that I like it, but it does have its merits(philosophical, writing quality etc).

  23. #263
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,523
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue View Post
    I don't think Cersei is EIE. More likely she is ESE. At least in the show.

    She doesn't consider the future implications of her actions. She thinks I'm a black and white way. "Power is power"
    She got herself stuck in religious prison by the people she put in power. She's a fool.
    Some suggest she is LSI and I would suggest the High Sparrow her EIE dual.

  24. #264
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    TIM
    9w8
    Posts
    3,523
    Mentioned
    140 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymeria View Post


    Like that she maybe has to be this way out of necssity. To survive in the snake pit that is Kings Landing. Also with Catelyn Stark (where I saw parallels with Cersei). Like she has this immense sense of duty regarding her family and children. And she goes on and on and on. Warning her son Robb about Walder Frey, but it‘s always like her voice never really gets heard and you get the feeling how she starts to tire.







    From here:
    http://warsofasoiaf.tumblr.com/post/140519862776/same-ask-about-characters-defining-moment-for

    Like how that was just the reality of their situation and how it formed their characters. And that’s what I mean. Like here you see ‚character defining‘ depth. Like Cersei being that way, maybe to protect herself. How Catelyn always has to fight and fight, but it feels like she never get heard out. Like the whole influence of how their position, or their duties, or their role in the family and the time they lived in just shaped them. And then the contrast to Maergary and her 'portrayal' and ‚I want to be the queen‘ etc. which in contrast to the others just sounded and felt flat to me.

    yeah I know, she is young (but so are other characters in the show/book) and we don't get a lot of access to her thoughts.
    They are giving her a nice character arc in the new season. Margery's motivations seemingly is about being the strong central force for her family. I think her quest to be queen is not a shallow pursuit, nor a selfish ambition. I think everything she does, as most of the women in her house do, is for the good of her family. The way she meekly and faux humbly sat in front of the High Sparrow after she was freed from the dungeons, contrasted with her firm and resolute stance when she is allowed to visit her assaulted brother reveals a depth of character. Margery can play a role as is required.

    It became clear to me what Margery was...she is the fulcrum of her family. She will do and say whatever she needs to for them and act however she needs to. Whilst Cersai and Catelyn do this for their children and husbands they always remain headstrong and forthright firmly rooted in their defined personality, With Catelyn being the more noble of the two. Margery does what she has to for her brother and her Grandmother and the rest of the Tyrells with her amorphous nature. She plays the cards she has and she is very good at it, being whatever actor suits the moment.

    When she is comforting her brother in the jail cell, she becomes outraged that he wants to give into the Sons of the Harpy. I believe this is her truest personality: Margery is the strong one, she is the one that can compartmentalize her incarceration in order to fight another day. If Cersai became the way she is through a lifetime of hardship, its almost as if spiritually Margery is 10 steps ahead of her on the path, she was strong to begin with because she doesn't lack the intuitive insight Cersai does.
    Last edited by wacey; 05-19-2016 at 08:34 PM.

  25. #265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    They are giving her a nice character arc in the new season. Margery's motivations seemingly is about being the strong central force for her family. I think her quest to be queen is not a shallow pursuit, nor a selfish ambition. I think everything she does, as most of the women in her house do, is for the good of her family. The way she meekly and faux humbly sat in front of the High Sparrow after she was freed from the dungeons, contrasted with her firm and resolute stance when she is allowed to visit her assaulted brother reveals a depth of character. Margery can play a role as is required.

    It became clear to me what Margery was...she is the fulcrum of her family. She will do and say whatever she needs to for them and act however she needs to. Whilst Cersai and Catelyn do this for their children and husbands they always remain headstrong and forthright firmly rooted in their defined personality, With Catelyn being the more noble of the two. Margery does what she has to for her brother and her Grandmother and the rest of the Tyrells with her amorphous nature. She plays the cards she has and she is very good at it, being whatever actor suits the moment.

    When she is comforting her brother in the jail cell, she becomes outraged that he wants to give into the Sons of the Harpy. I believe this is her truest personality: Margery is the strong one, she is the one that can compartmentalize her incarceration in order to fight another day. If Cersai became the way she is through a lifetime of hardship, its almost as if spiritually Margery is 10 steps ahead of her on the path, she was strong to begin with because she doesn't lack the intuitive insight Cersai does.
    I haven't watched the new season yet.

  26. #266

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Spoilers and curse words ahead

    Daenerys
    Lmao at IEI. You just want her to be Drogo's dual. IEIs suck at Se, Daenerys doesn't.
    I would say EIE with confidence, 'cause she seems Beta, but she sucks at Ni, wherein Jorah [more on him later], an ILI, advises her. She's even worse at Te; Jorah to the rescue again. I might say ESI, however, she has a penchant for dramatics, especially in speeches, and has no reserves with sharing her problems with others. EIEs can have subjective and intolerant moral codes too, you know? Also, I'll say it again, she seems Beta. There's the problem with weak Ni, but then EIE-Fe often let their emotions cloud their judgement, and this subtype would also explain her powerful Se. I also don't like her, so I'll say EIE-Fe. Hey, at least she'd be Drogo's activator.


    Robert
    Clearly Fe and Se valuing, Beta, and not a fucking ESE, SLE or SEE. SLE are actually quite composed people, not boisterous unless by someone else's initiative. ESEs are boisterous, but not nearly as dramatic and are inclined towards less extremes. He also has strong Ni, as seen in attitude towards the Dothraki problem. Strong Se explained by his Fe subtype, and Se is still not as prevalent as Fe. If you don't think this pig values Fe you need to watch his interactions with Ned more closely. SEEs don't care about Fe unless it helps them achieve something material. And there's no Fi in him, just see how he reacts to Ned's Fi input. He's an EIE-Fe. Sure, he doesn't seem like Dany, another EIE-Fe, but then EIE are the most varied and, frankly, fucked up type, no offence.


    Joffrey
    Yet another EIE-Fe. Alpha NT is the stupidest typing for him. Alpha NTs react to Se with disgust and avoidance, though ILE will use it quite maturely if need be. Joffrey likes Se, in his own twisted way, and is constantly trying to make himself seem like he's good at Se, which he's only mediocre at and that too because of his status. As for Fe dominance, he's quite good at Fe. Just watch how he charmed Sansa and riles up crowds when he wants. He doesn't care for Si. Lack of Ni explained by Fe subtype. Listen, I know these typings are not perfect, but they're the closest you can expect with these fictional characters. So Joffrey is EIE-Fe.


    Viserys
    Lol, another EIE. Dramatic and very Beta, obsessed with being the 'Dragon', lmao. Quite like Joffrey, good at Fe, but often mixes it with his meh Se, which he isn't nearly as good with as he might think. Not much else to say for this obvious typing, but I will say you're nuts if you think he's ILE, lol. The Dragon is EIE-Fe.


    Theon
    Is EIE. I know, I'm tired of EIE typings too, but lets get them all over with at once.
    The Joffrey-Viserys case applies here, what with strong Fe
    [listen to his speech before he's knocked out] and the not-so-great but emphasised Se, he's just not AS bad a guy as the former two. Strong Beta-ness and pride for his culture. After the Ramsay thing I think he's EII. Terrified of Se, Very focused on the interpersonal, afraid of offending, confused by Ramsay's turbulent Fe. Capable of channeling Fe himself occasionally [iron islands or Yara speech], but doesn't care about it as much anymore, advises others with Ni, but unable to force anyone to listen.
    So yeah, EIE-Fe then EII. You can't expect consistent types in all fictional characters, especially ones subjected to torture.


    Arya
    Doesn't care about Fe. Does care for Fi. Great at Se, but doesn't give mind to hierarchy and power structures [which would be Se + Ti], and is rather democratic. Led by her emotional reactions viscerally, pays no heed to the consequences of her actions and bad at putting things into context i.e killing Meryn Trant because it was what her emotions dictated, and naming three insignificant names when she could have had any three people killed. Gamma values, realistic, mistrustful and critical of others moral compasses [the Hound]. All this points to SEE-Se. Also, I love her, but I've provided an argument free of bias.


    Jaime
    An interesting and complex character. SLE-Se seemed obvious at first, what with his oppressive use of Fe, strong Se, lack of attention paid to Ni, seeming disregard for Fi, cold realism, and skilful handling of logical categories. But I've been having strong doubts. While he can play with rules and categories, he does just that, play. He doesn't take them seriously at all, which a Ti type would. Just listen to his conversation about rules with Catylen when he's a prisoner. Sounds like Ti in the Id block. He seems bad at Ni, but I've only seen him demonstrate ignorance of it a few times, which even Ni types exhibit [except maybe Ni dominants]. Most of the time his nonchalance is because he's all too aware of the consequences and knows exactly what he'll do if things go wrong. Note how he assures Cersei in these matters i.e the Bran problem. His cold realism is as much attributable to Te as it is to an SLE. He obviously cares about Fi in his devotion to Cersei and later Brienne [I'm not saying devotion is Fi btw], but he's not that good at it, he feels insecure about it, and needs strong, valued Fi in a partner. His attitude of 'I will do the most deplorable shit for the few people I care about because most people deserve shit anyways' is very Gamma. I'm now quite confident he's an LIE.
    There's this stereotype that LIE are serious businessmen, which is ridiculous. Ni subtypes at least are actually playful people with a roguish charm who are quite good at Fe. Also his Se isn't that prevalent and he's more democratic than SLEs. His occasional disregard for Ni can be attributed to the impulsive EJ temperament, which I forgot to mention for my previous EIE typings who also frequently ignore Ni.
    He's LIE-Ni.

    Um, I'll post more later maybe, and I know it's been a while since the last post. Sorry If I seem intolerant, I'm open to discussing and arguing these typings. I'm also sorry for any errors I missed.
    Last edited by Donkey Eternal; 08-22-2016 at 12:32 PM.

  27. #267

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Drogo
    Beta. Very strong Se. Capable of and enjoys Fe, but has only demonstrated it powerfully on one occasion. Loves Dany, an EIE. Points to SLE-Se. It seems everyone agrees.


    Ramsay
    My first impression was 'oh, another EIE', but I now think he's SEE. Hear me out. He reeks of Fe [lol, pun not intended], but he uses it playfully and non-seriously. I'm not saying this negates the typing of EIE, but it opens up the possibility of SEE since Fe demonstrative can manifest in that form. Something that really differentiates Ramsay from the EIEs in this show is that he's really good at Se, which he clearly values. Se manifests itself differently in him than the EIEs. He's fearless and revels in the violance of personal combat. He's unpredictable and arrogant, ignoring possible ways his plans could go wrong. He thinks on his feet, but is reckless when it comes to political consequences. He also respects and heeds the words of his father, Roose, a Gamma NT. Of course, he's a fucking sadist, but overall I think he's an SEE-Fi.


    Cersei
    Emotionally manipulative and sees through the character of others e.g Margaery. Points to skill in ethics. She's too often typed logical without reason. Being cold and distrusting does not equal a logical type. Strong and valued Se. Se's strength negates the possibility of IEI, leaving EIE, SEE or ESI. She is extremely impatient and short-sighted. This removes EIE. She's mistrustful, vengeful and definitely a Gamma SF, but her mercurial, amoral nature and bias towards her children is more SEE than ESI. I don't even like her that much, but she is what she is, an SEE-Se. This also explains her and Jaime's [LIE] mostly positive relationship, as well as her being supervised by Tywin, an LSI.


    Baelish
    Also emotionally manipulative, so you'd think ethical, but no one actually trusts him, so his manipulation doesn't exactly work that well. You could argue that most people don't trust other ethical characters like Cersei either, but there are other reasons I typed them ethical, whereas Littlefinger only has his false niceness and dramatic speeches going for him, which isn't much. I think he's LIE-Ni. His Ni is very, very strong. And I've already said so in my Jaime post but LIE are fairly good at Fe. What Petyr is not good at is realising his real feelings and realising the real feelings of others. He thinks he loves Catylen and that she loves him, which isn't the case. He uses goals like revenge against the Starks and Tullys as an excuse for his utter ambition to control everything around him. The fact that he's a genius at financial matters and that I like him doesn't hurt the typing of LIE-Ni I have for him.


    Jon Snow
    ESI-Fi, easy. Why? Because he knows nothing and ESI have no Te. I'm just kidding. He has a clear moral compass which he stubbornly abides by. He is good at managing psychological distance, and could navigate his complicated relationships within the Stark household. He was quick to judge his future friends when he first joined the Watch, but he later found his impulsive Gamma SF-like judgement to be wrong, because he was simply criticising their actions and not considering the intent behind them [Gamma SF vs Delta NF]. He may not seem Fi dominant because you might think he was unaware of how helping the wildlings would change his relations with the Night's Watch members, but on the contrary, I think he was aware, he just didn't think this hatred of him would lead to him being stabbed by a child while he was the fucking Lord Commander and then being reincarnated. You can't expect someone, a Ne PoLR nonetheless, to have expected that.
    He's not good at Ni or Te, as shown in the Battle of Bastards when he rushed to try and save Rickon, and when that failed, he rode forward stupidly consumed by his emotions.
    Last edited by Donkey Eternal; 08-22-2016 at 10:48 AM.

  28. #268
    My Mind is Erupting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    Possible IEE
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey Eternal View Post
    Drogo
    Beta. Very strong Se. Capable of and enjoys Fe, but has only demonstrated it powerfully on one occasion. Loves Dany, an EIE. Points to SLE-Se. It seems everyone agrees.


    Ramsay
    My first impression was 'oh, another EIE', but I now think he's SEE. Hear me out. He reeks of Fe [lol, pun not intended], but he uses it playfully and non-seriously. I'm not saying this negates the typing of EIE, but it opens up the possibility of SEE since Fe demonstrative can manifest in that form. Something that really differentiates Ramsay from the EIEs in this show is that he's really good at Se, which he clearly values. Se manifests itself differently in him than the EIEs. He's fearless and revels in the violance of personal combat. He's unpredictable and arrogant, ignoring possible ways his plans could go wrong. He thinks on his feet, but is reckless when it comes to political consequences. He also respects and heeds the words of his father, Roose, a Gamma NT. Of course, he's a fucking sadist, but overall I think he's an SEE-Fi.


    Cersei
    Emotionally manipulative and sees through the character of others e.g Margaery. Points to skill in ethics. She's too often typed logical without reason. Being cold and distrusting does not equal a logical type. Strong and valued Se. Se's strength negates the possibility of IEI, leaving EIE, SEE or ESI. She is extremely impatient and short-sighted. This removes EIE. She's mistrustful, vengeful and definitely a Gamma SF, but her mercurial, amoral nature and bias towards her children is more SEE than ESI. I don't even like her that much, but she is what she is, an SEE-Se. This also explains her and Jaime's [LIE] mostly positive relationship, as well as her being supervised by Tywin, an LSI.


    Baelish
    Also emotionally manipulative, so you'd think ethical, but no one actually trusts him, so his manipulation doesn't exactly work that well. You could argue that most people don't trust other ethical characters like Cersei either, but there are other reasons I typed them ethical, whereas Littlefinger only has his false niceness and dramatic speeches going for him, which isn't much. I think he's LIE-Ni. His Ni is very, very strong. And I've already said so in my Jaime post but LIE are fairly good at Fe. What Petyr is not good at is realising his real feelings and realising the real feelings of others. He thinks he loves Catylen and that she loves him, which isn't the case. He uses goals like revenge against the Starks and Tullys as an excuse for his utter ambition to control everything around him. The fact that he's a genius at financial matters and that I like him doesn't hurt the typing of LIE-Ni I have for him.


    Jon Snow
    ESI-Fi, easy. Why? Because he knows nothing and ESI have no Te. I'm just kidding. He has a clear moral compass which he stubbornly abides by. He is good at managing psychological distance, and could navigate his complicated relationships within the Stark household. He was quick to judge his future friends when he first joined the Watch, but he later found his impulsive Gamma SF-like judgement to be wrong, because he was simply criticising their actions and not considering the intent behind them [Gamma SF vs Delta NF]. He may not seem Fi dominant because you might think he was unaware of how helping the wildlings would change his relations with the Night's Watch members, but on the contrary, I think he was aware, he just didn't think this hatred of him would lead to him being stabbed by a child while he was the fucking Lord Commander and then being reincarnated. You can't expect someone, a Ne PoLR nonetheless, to have expected that.
    He's not good at Ni or Te, as shown in the Battle of Bastards when he rushed to try and save Rickon, and when that failed, he rode forward stupidly consumed by his emotions.
    Damn, you're good.
    Last edited by My Mind is Erupting; 08-27-2016 at 01:43 PM.

  29. #269

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you?

  30. #270
    My Mind is Erupting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    Possible IEE
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey Eternal View Post
    Thank you?
    Aye 👍

  31. #271
    A man chooses, a slave obeys MensSuperMateriam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    345
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Good typings, @Donkey Eternal

  32. #272

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you, here are some more. I plan to type all of the major characters.

    Sansa
    Let's examine her character.
    When young, she tried to emulate her mother's example of a "proper lady" i.e she's probably rational, which explains her conflict with irrational, SEE-Se Arya.
    She's obviously ethical, and most likely is a Fi-valuing introvert, leaving ESI and EII.
    She naively believed in the tales and epic romances in which every princess gets her honourable knight in shining armour to sweep her off her feet.
    This points to an intuitive type, however, you must realise that she was brought up to believe those tales, and it's not like she persists in her belief for long, so this aspect of her personality leads to no conclusion.
    While you could argue Arya was brought up similarly, ESI and SEE react quite differently to traditions and standards, the former embracing most of them and the latter rejecting them.
    Now, why would a Fi type be so naive as Sansa in season one of GoT?
    Simple, she has bad Ne.
    She was so absorbed in her preconceived perception of the world that until an extreme occurrence [Ned's death], she remained oblivious.
    So that should exclude EII, but that was too little to go off of, so I'll continue and prove that she's most likely an ESI.
    You might think she's bad at Se, but she's not, it's just that she realises her attempts to resist the cruelty of those around her would be futile.
    You see, ESI, unlike SEE, are mindful of the social hierarchy.
    Note how her Se comes out when she escapes King's Landing, especially when she's with Baelish and later Jon.
    Speaking of Baelish, they dualise.
    Notice how much she grows in her awareness of context and intrigue when around him.
    As for subtypes, I think she's ESI-Se, mostly because of her pushy interaction with Jon.


    Tyrion
    He's extroverted, that's for sure.
    Also for sure is that he values Fi.
    He's good at Fe, but uses it playfully or for manipulative gain i.e Fe demonstrative.
    Emotionally turbulent, tends towards drama.
    Good at cheering people up, but while his intentions are noble, he seems insincere, erratic and inconsiderate at times, which is habitual of Fi creatives SEE and IEE, but I haven't ruled out LIE yet.
    What does rule out LIE is his sometimes lazy and hedonistic behaviour, and the fact that his emotions often overpower his logic.
    What makes him IEE over SEE is his strong ability with Ni, ability to accurate grasp people's character without much background with them, and the fact that he's probably not Cersei's identical.
    It makes sense that he's Tywins conflictor also.
    Subtype is IEE-Fi.


    Margaery
    Not an alpha SF.
    She's an aggressor, plays power games, manipulates people and has great ambition.
    "I want to be the Queen."
    Cleary extroverted and so I say SEE-Fi.
    EIE-Fe was my first thought, but she only ever uses Fe for personal gain.
    Of course that fact doesn't negate EIE, but her aggressor attitude and sensory confidence sure do.
    Fi subtype explains her pretty good intuition.
    I also like her a lot too, but no bias.


    The Hound
    Aggressive, Se valuing and realistic. Doesn't actually care for authority or rules unless not caring would result in his displeasure. Mindful of politics and people's positions. Fi valuing, cynical and introverted. Inwardly kind, democratic, and devolops close but complicated bonds. Points to ESI-Se. I could elaborate, but I think it's obvious. He's not an SLI; not Si valuing at all and uses a lot of Se.


    Olenna
    Witty, cunning and politically astute.
    Outspoken with little patience for inconvenience.
    Strong and valued Ni, Te and Se point to LIE.
    Ni is too strong for the popular typings of SLE and SEE.
    She's also of EJ temperament.
    Last edited by Donkey Eternal; 08-23-2016 at 12:37 AM.

  33. #273

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Eddard
    Obvious Fi-valuing, sensing rational.
    That leaves ESI and LSE.
    Btw he's not Se PoLR, so he's not EII people.
    I vote ESI as Si is never present in his personality and Fi and Se are more prevalent than Te.
    As for judging people impractically pointing to bad Fi, he was on the contrary quite mistrustful.
    Regarding Baelish, Ned never trusted him, he was just very distracted and tired.


    Melisandre
    Obvious EIE-Fe. Beta NF. Extraversion and Se is too prevalent for IEI. I shouldn't have to go on.


    Jorah
    Gamma NT at least should be obvious.
    He's always trying to give reasonable, practical and effective advice.
    He's intelligent, literate and well travelled.
    Gives advise regarding Ni.
    If he were LIE, he'd be the Te subtype as he's to serious and focused on Fi to be the Ni subtype.
    However, in LIE-Te, the EJ temperament is emphasised further, so it should be obvious.
    But it isn't.
    If anything, Jorah seems like an IP, just going with the flow.
    Thus I'll say he's an ILI-Te.
    His one sided affection for Dany is also one of many ways supervision can manifest itself.


    Stannis
    Obvious LSI-Ti.
    It seems everyone agrees.
    Sometimes I think he's Fi valuing, but that's just an inconsistency in a fictional character.


    Tywin
    He's not an LIE, but an LSI instead.
    There's no arguing that he's anything other than a Se valuing logical rational type.
    Just look at his composure, it's not of an LIE, but clearly of an IJ and a Se valuer.
    But of course, composure is too minor a detail with fictional characters so let's move on.
    He's excellent at Se. LIE can use Se, sometimes effectively, but not nowhere near as consistently or skilfully as Tywin.
    What about his strong Ni?
    Well, LSI-Ti are quite good with Ni.
    The thing with Tywin is that his Se is stronger than his Ni, which is sometimes neglected.
    What about his strong Te?
    LSI-Ti are very good at Te, just like an ILI is good at Ti.
    Tywin is also bad at Ne + Fi.
    He has an irrational dislike of Tyrion.
    An LIE's Te dominance and strong Ne demonstrative would make them more likely to acknowledge and properly appoint Tyrion.
    Also pointing to LSI over LIE is Tywin's conservative, patrician set of social values, in which women are suited to securing marriage-alliances and little else, not weilding power on their own.
    An LIE would have more of a 'whatever works' ideology, like Olenna.

  34. #274
    A man chooses, a slave obeys MensSuperMateriam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    345
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No alphas in GOT?

    What do you think about Samwell Tarly? I think he clearly does not value Se. Alpha introvert I would say; his behavior is somewhat IPish but his intellectualism and total absence of Se (SEIs are still Se demonstrative, after all) could point towards Se PoLR and therefore LII. Ne subt, as he seems less rigid and idiosyncratic than Ti sub.

    His manifest happiness after entering inside that library is something I would attribute to a LII.


    (He also seems the less fitting character in this overall Se-dominated universe, after all).

  35. #275
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,369
    Mentioned
    109 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Cersei: EIE
    Jaime: SLE
    Tyrion: ILE
    Sansa: E*I
    Arya: SLE
    Stannis: LSI
    Jon Snow: I*I, lean towards IEI with character, but looks more ILI due to SLI actor.
    Samwell Tarly: SEI
    Bronn: Serious ESxx
    Sandor "The Hound" Clegane: LSE, ST for sure. Aggressive like Beta, but his demeanor is so consistent that I lean EJ
    Petyr Baelish: Gamma NT
    Ygritte: SLE
    Khal Drogo: SLE
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

  36. #276
    My Mind is Erupting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    Possible IEE
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Cersei: EIE
    Jaime: SLE
    Tyrion: ILE
    Sansa: E*I
    Arya: SLE
    Stannis: LSI
    Jon Snow: I*I, lean towards IEI with character, but looks more ILI due to SLI actor.
    Samwell Tarly: SEI
    Bronn: Serious ESxx
    Sandor "The Hound" Clegane: LSE, ST for sure. Aggressive like Beta, but his demeanor is so consistent that I lean EJ
    Petyr Baelish: Gamma NT
    Ygritte: SLE
    Khal Drogo: SLE
    Definitely can't say I agree with.. Almost any of these. Do you mind explaining why you think those are their types? Though if you're lazy like me then it's cool.

  37. #277
    My Mind is Erupting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    Possible IEE
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey Eternal View Post
    Eddard
    Obvious Fi-valuing, sensing rational.
    That leaves ESI and LSE.
    Btw he's not Se PoLR, so he's not EII people.
    I vote ESI as Si is never present in his personality and Fi and Se are more prevalent than Te.
    As for judging people impractically pointing to bad Fi, he was on the contrary quite mistrustful.
    Regarding Baelish, Ned never trusted him, he was just very distracted and tired.


    Melisandre
    Obvious EIE-Fe. Beta NF. Extraversion and Se is too prevalent for IEI. I shouldn't have to go on.


    Jorah
    Gamma NT at least should be obvious.
    He's always trying to give reasonable, practical and effective advice.
    He's intelligent, literate and well travelled.
    Gives advise regarding Ni.
    If he were LIE, he'd be the Te subtype as he's to serious and focused on Fi to be the Ni subtype.
    However, in LIE-Te, the EJ temperament is emphasised further, so it should be obvious.
    But it isn't.
    If anything, Jorah seems like an IP, just going with the flow.
    Thus I'll say he's an ILI-Te.
    His one sided affection for Dany is also one of many ways supervision can manifest itself.


    Stannis
    Obvious LSI-Ti.
    It seems everyone agrees.
    Sometimes I think he's Fi valuing, but that's just an inconsistency in a fictional character.


    Tywin
    He's not an LIE, but an LSI instead.
    There's no arguing that he's anything other than a Se valuing logical rational type.
    Just look at his composure, it's not of an LIE, but clearly of an IJ and a Se valuer.
    But of course, composure is too minor a detail with fictional characters so let's move on.
    He's excellent at Se. LIE can use Se, sometimes effectively, but not nowhere near as consistently or skilfully as Tywin.
    What about his strong Ni?
    Well, LSI-Ti are quite good with Ni.
    The thing with Tywin is that his Se is stronger than his Ni, which is sometimes neglected.
    What about his strong Te?
    LSI-Ti are very good at Te, just like an ILI is good at Ti.
    Tywin is also bad at Ne + Fi.
    He has an irrational dislike of Tyrion.
    An LIE's Te dominance and strong Ne demonstrative would make them more likely to acknowledge and properly appoint Tyrion.
    Also pointing to LSI over LIE is Tywin's conservative, patrician set of social values, in which women are suited to securing marriage-alliances and little else, not weilding power on their own.
    An LIE would have more of a 'whatever works' ideology, like Olenna.
    Suggestion, you should put the different characters in spoiler tags incase someone reads your three recent posts without noticing the spoiler warning on the first one.
    Last edited by My Mind is Erupting; 08-22-2016 at 07:47 PM.

  38. #278

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    No alphas in GOT?

    What do you think about Samwell Tarly? I think he clearly does not value Se. Alpha introvert I would say; his behavior is somewhat IPish but his intellectualism and total absence of Se (SEIs are still Se demonstrative, after all) could point towards Se PoLR and therefore LII. Ne subt, as he seems less rigid and idiosyncratic than Ti sub.

    His manifest happiness after entering inside that library is something I would attribute to a LII.


    (He also seems the less fitting character in this overall Se-dominated universe, after all).
    I agree, he's LII-Ne. Your argument pretty much sums up why. He's also not good with Fi if you pay attention, preferring a more light-hearted Fe approach, and when his Se does come out, it's awkward and makes me cringe. He also ignores Ni [not the ignoring function, but still]. Ne subtype explains his energy levels. Also painfully Alpha.
    Last edited by Donkey Eternal; 08-22-2016 at 11:09 PM.

  39. #279

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by My Mind is Erupting View Post
    Suggestion, you should put the different characters in spoiler tags incase someone reads your three recent posts without noticing the spoiler warning on the first one.
    I will, but frankly, you shouldn't be on this forum if you haven't finished the series. I don't know why I bothered with a spoiler warning in my first post.

  40. #280
    My Mind is Erupting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    Possible IEE
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey Eternal View Post
    I will, but frankly, you shouldn't be on this forum if you haven't finished the series. I don't know why I bothered with a spoiler warning in my first post.
    I guess you're right, I didn't really think of that.. Heh. Sorry-

Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 345678910 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •