SEE
yeah, she's become one of my favorite characters too.
Joffery is EIEOriginally Posted by Tackk
Tyrion is the ILE
George RR Martin is ILE himself and has said Tyrion is his authorial insert character. Althrough Tyrion is charming or whatnot, he's actually not charming to any of the other characters in the story. He is one of the most hated individual in the entire novel series, he is tactless and thought of as untrustworthy, debauched and evil. No one give Tyrion any respect or responsibility despite his competency and ability at many things. This is because he's largely unable to play the power and social games the other characters play effectively and is naive and trusting of some individuals which he should not be. There's really no way Tyrion is a ethical type.
Joffery isseeking but has unconscious
The most obvious LII in the story is Jon Snow.
I actually feel like tyrion is a pretty obvious ILE... and Joffrey is a pretty obvious Ni creative, to me! Maybe not a particularly smart one, but NTR.
Edit: ...Maybe I am being swayed by Joffrey's eyes? Which is an actor thing, not a character thing. He has that... Ni creative look.
Not really, I think once you look at George RR Martin and his type you'll realize the character type is right. This is his authorial insert character, which he's confirmed.here comes hkkmr shipping tyrion as his identical again
Margery Tyrell is SEI, she supervises Joffery like nobody's business.
base types are more brash with their
Joffery's problem isn't that he's got bad
When he turns on the charm he can pull the wool over people's eyes, as in the killing of Ned Stark, and the courtship of Sansa. He showed good
The difference between Joffery and Tyrion is really simple actually.
Tyrion wants to live a simple life and enjoy all the pleasures it has to offer while learning about stuff.
vs
Joffery wants to rule the world and be king and control everyone.
one two three four i declare a quadra war
i really dunno if i could see joffery as EIE... but that interpretation might be worth pondering. i think SEI is a good typing for margaery. i think he would be less comfortable with her if it was supervision, though.
(sorry i keep editing, haven't caught up on my coffee yet this morning)
margaery <3
I edit a ton too. ^_^;
I love the character in the TV show, she doesn't get enough screen time in the book.
Tyrion certainly is a well described F vulnerable character, ILE would be likely.
I don't know if the TV series has reached Eyrie yet, but Lisa Arryn/Tully upon reading always seemed fairly Maritsa esque/IEE/ESE crazy crossbreed.
I'm going to watch new episodes soonish and see what I missed.
just read hk's edited in arguments which were interesting and fun to read. mayyybe i could be convinced about joffery after chewing on it. i'm not at all convinced re tyrion and the insert character thing for a variety of reasons.. what about himself did he put in the character? maybe the character was an outlet for nontype related insecurities. and the character in the show is translated over and over... martins mind to words in a book to words in a script to the actors interpretation and the directors vision, etc etc.
They met up with Lysa and co when Tyrion was captured by Catelyn.
The definition of 'I need a big strong LSE to throw the bad people into the sky'.
...Am I the only person that disliked Margaery from her first appearance in the TV show? (have not read past the first book.) Even her actions with Renly seemed manipulative to me, like, "Oh I know you're gay and I don't care, I just want power. I'll deal with this situation pragmatically." She's grown on me with time, however, since she doesn't seem evil or anything.
Not sure about type; she seems too Te-savvy to me to be Fe-creative, she always seems to be using that Fe to serve some Te purpose that's very clear in her head... she's way too competent to be SEI! Right?
I don't see Margaery as wanting power. Sansa's the power seeking one. Her fantasys are all power-fantasies(female princess type). She wants to be the princess to a powerful and noble knight who will do her bidding out of love. She loves the trappings of power, nobility, the fantasy and romance it presents as well as the benefits such as servants, people who she can use at her whim. In the book, she's the one who betrays Ned to Cersei for the chance to marry Joffery and be Queen. It is for this power fantasy that Ned eventually died although this is not her intention.
Margaery is not really power hungry, she is scared, and she is in the service to her father and family, she does what she does not out of some power fantasy but out of devotion to her family, but she is not stupid and has been well-educated by her grandmother. She is sincere and honest to Renly, not manipulative, she is more manipulative to Joffery, but this is reasonable as Joffery is insane and sadistic. Renly is a kind and generous man albet gay, Margaery also love his brother and doesn't mind that they are together. She is tolerant and generous person who accepts the pragmatics of the situation.
I would say her only motive is to ensure her popularity and protection of herself via the common folk from the machination of the powerful. I think the motive isn't reallydriven but more
driven. I don't think she really wants power because she's always an agent of her father and family, she doesn't really do any of this for her own sake.
From the bits and pieces I've seen, I disagree. Every single high-ranking character in that series does want power. It's called Game of Thrones for a reason...
Did you see the scene between Margaery, her grandmother and Sansa and they explain their reason to be in King's Landing? The Queen of Thorns to all the talking but she's being truthful with Sansa and Margaery agrees.
I guess it's not wanting power what I meant, but power as a primary motivation. I don't see it as her primary motivation where as Sansa's power fantasies are her primary motivation.
I did. Doesn't mean anything unless you've seen the future (the past in this case), that is, the fourth season.
As a side note, I never read these books if there are such at all, just basing it off what I've seen.
If it were so, she wouldn't be so picky(?) when it comes to the power lenders. Not unless the characters' habit and talent lies solely in misjudging her soon to be opponents.
Three major houses in game as for now,
Two of them want to form an alliance in order to reap the benefits thereof after,
Third one fractured and set for exploitation by the first one, benefits being sole motivator of course,
The rest of the plot we're going to have to wait for until it reveals, taking into account a rising fourth player.
Last edited by Absurd; 05-13-2013 at 09:53 PM.
My instincts tell me otherwise about Margaery... if she were a person I met in real life I would instantly not trust her (although, I guess this could be said about anyone in Game of Thrones.) I don't think she's evil but she's definitely extremely ambitious. Perhaps her upbringing and familial obligations have molded her ambitions, but I doubt that she's simply seeking comfort and protection. Maybe the conversation isn't type related, at this point.
(I heart Natalie Dormer)
I think I have a different perspective from reading the book since I know kinda of know what is going to happen. Also imo that scene shows that she's able to adapt to Joffery's sadism in order to maintain peace between the Tyrells and Lannisters. Is she actually sadistic, no, but she's willing to do what it takes to maintain that peace.
This isn't that uncommon for SEI's, there have been various individuals of this type that have been compliant to violent sadistic strong men(Kruschev to Stalin).
It means a lot if you believe in what the Queen of Thorns says. She says very explicitly the motive the Tyrells took Renly side and latter came to rescue to King's Landing together with Twyin's forces is his son stupid vanity and ambition to have Magaery as the Queen. And they're there to see the thing through now. Margaery don't say anything but the scene gives the idea she pretty much agrees.
So my point is the only prominent Tyrell (until now at least) whose primal motive on playing the game of thrones and getting more power is Margaery's father. I didn't say it at once because I didn't know if you have watched it and fear of giving out spoilers...
And yeah, I saw the alternated future in the books that certainly helped to understand Margaery though the scene is totally taken from the books and the impression there was the same. Also she have a lot more of time on the show and her manipulative talent is more on the open.
Edit: giving it a second thought the producers raised her manipulative nature A LOT on the show and something on Natalie Dormer gives the vipe of a very ambitious woman (anyone knows her type?). From the books at least I took another impression of her nature and my vision was distorted. So we got another ambitious player... How people keep trace of all those characters through the show escapes me.
That's not really a spoiler, anyone not blind can see that the head of a house is going to do anything to further their influence and it doesn't really matter whether the pawns are aware of it or not, but in her case, she's damn aware, accepting and willing to participate.
Again, being queen and being able to manipulate the subjects, not to mention the king himself is a valuable asset as long one's allegiance lies with a certain house which simply means that the character she plays is, well, dishonest?
And benefiting from the image she wants you to believe in. Game of Thrones in a nutshell.
Last edited by Absurd; 05-13-2013 at 10:50 PM.
It's the first scene of the Queen of Thorns and she's such a great character and a lot of her and Margaery is given out in that scene. I didn't want to spoil that. The head of the Tyrells willingness to play the game and further their influence is obvious since the beginning of the second season but until now we didn't know what the pawns thought about that.
Margaery is a very cunning and intelligent woman born the daughter of the head of a powerful house. Anybody-that-is-not-Sansa would understand the power and importance of their position, even the fool would get it, they'd just play their cards badly. For a power-seeking, relentless woman see Cersei.
Cersei and Sansa aren't that different. When Cersei was young all she wanted to do was marry Rhaegar Targarian, and be Queen.
Agree. Cersei also took since early Sansa under her wings and was mentoring her through the whole thing. She really seemed to have a closer relationship with her than most. Their very obvious differences can be more attributed by who they were raised, when, age and experience really than type.
What intertype relation do you think they share?
I type Sansa SEE(Fi subtype) and Cersei EIE and their relationship as benefactor(Cersei), beneficiary(Sansa).
Althrough they're similar, I think Sansa is a kinder and more sincere person than Cersei. I don't want to spoil anything tho but that will be revealed.
Also humor value...
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/s...ft-of-westeros
Daenerys seems a lot more ESI in this season so far.
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I couldn't really see ethical when I thought about it. Thinker really fits him better.
Sounds good to me, as long as people don't assume his sadism to mean Fi-devaluing.Joffery is
That's an interesting typing. He definitely seems that way in this season so far. It's strange how he doesn't feel very connected to his girlfriend and seems to disapprove of the unorganized/unregimented way her people live. They seem to annoy each other with their behavior. Seems like a Ti/Fe vs Te/Fi conflict.The most obvious LII in the story is Jon Snow.
I'm going with SEE.
What do people think about
Jaime?
Brienne? (what a cute couple)
now
She's pretty smooth, isn't she. Would you object to Fe-creative? Maybe I want her to be, but it seems like a good fit.
I'm not completely sure on these typings, but this is what I have in mind right now:
Eddard Stark - LSE
Catelyn Stark - ESE
Robb Stark - LIE
Bran Stark - SEI
Jaime Lannister - ILE
Cersei Lannister - EIE
Robert Baratheon - SEE
Tyrion Lannister - LIE
Arya Stark - SEE
Sansa Stark - EII
Joffrey Baratheon - SLE
Littlefinger - EIE
Khal Drogo - SLE
Daenerys Targaryan - IEI
Tywin Lannister - LSI
Jon Snow - IEI
Viserys Targaryan - EIE
Stannis Baratheon - LSI
Ygritte - SLE
Last edited by Raver; 05-17-2013 at 12:17 AM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
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