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    Default Romancing styles - "victim" males

    Victim males How do you act with women.
    If im enfj then
    Personally i act like aggressor. If see someone interesting i start chasing and harrasing her, and try to get her see my positive value and will to have her. Now im trying to get an infp girl, but as i have just started to get on the meds so i shouldnt really leave this place. Im being 50% and 50% about leaving. As i think i dont really care about the danger. Actually its a bit thrilling

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    I think the boy that I ended my relationship with must be a victim male.


    He behaves much like you mentioned. And I'm just like "please, stop"
    and he then continutes to ask me about a hundred and fifty questions about that which I do not wish to speak of. I try to be reasonable. I try to explain that I have no answers, that I have nothing to say on these subjects, that I don't acknowledge them, I do not give them my time, I do not think about them. At all. Forty seconds later,

    him: "what would you like to have a constructive conversation about?"
    me: "I have no preference as long as no one gets upset or hurt or angry or vicious."
    him: "so what do you think would help us?"

    ... seriously? Just stop.

    He then gets mad at me for being unresponsive. I have nothing to say. If that's all you want to speak of you will reach a wall and then you will talk about non stop for months. You do not respect my wishes you do not think of anyone but your selfish wants.

    /rant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrangea View Post
    I think the boy that I ended my relationship with must be a victim male.


    He behaves much like you mentioned. And I'm just like "please, stop"
    and he then continutes to ask me about a hundred and fifty questions about that which I do not wish to speak of. I try to be reasonable. I try to explain that I have no answers, that I have nothing to say on these subjects, that I don't acknowledge them, I do not give them my time, I do not think about them. At all. Forty seconds later,

    him: "what would you like to have a constructive conversation about?"
    me: "I have no preference as long as no one gets upset or hurt or angry or vicious."
    him: "so what do you think would help us?"

    ... seriously? Just stop.

    He then gets mad at me for being unresponsive. I have nothing to say. If that's all you want to speak of you will reach a wall and then you will talk about non stop for months. You do not respect my wishes you do not think of anyone but your selfish wants.

    /rant
    So you would rather liked to be punched in your face, and taken the hard way than have a conversation. Thank you i think i understand

    But yeah i think that is a good description

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    i seem to only attract victim males. the word i want to use is "provoking," i feel they try to pull things out of me, though not overtly. i feel like the more active one, but it's very reactive to them and what they're doing.

    if it's a good relationship, i barely notice the provoking of me i mentioned. it's just natural back and forth.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    I would much rather be punched in the face until I died.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrangea View Post
    I would much rather be punched in the face until I died.
    We could make a good couple. Whats your phonenumber ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by borderline View Post
    i seem to only attract victim males. the word i want to use is "provoking," i feel they try to pull things out of me, though not overtly. i feel like the more active one, but it's very reactive to them and what they're doing.

    if it's a good relationship, i barely notice the provoking of me i mentioned. it's just natural back and forth.
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    nothing in particular
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    accomplishments are transient

    re OP: passively draw in (the energy really seems to only align with beta STs). pursuing objects of desire = pushing away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by borderline View Post
    i seem to only attract victim males. the word i want to use is "provoking," i feel they try to pull things out of me, though not overtly. i feel like the more active one, but it's very reactive to them and what they're doing.

    if it's a good relationship, i barely notice the provoking of me i mentioned. it's just natural back and forth.
    Ooh, yes, this is good. People are always leaving little threads poking out of their metaphorical life-sweaters and it's always so tempting to just tug on those and unravel the whole thing.

    Anyways, as to how I act with women... I really don't. I don't really know any single women that are worth acting on. Not that I'm some prize catch or anything, it's just that you can usually just look at someone and realize, "Any relationship I have with this person will probably be unrewarding and short-lived." And, really, no relationship at all is probably better than unrewarding and short-lived.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Knight View Post
    Ooh, yes, this is good. People are always leaving little threads poking out of their metaphorical life-sweaters and it's always so tempting to just tug on those and unravel the whole thing.

    Anyways, as to how I act with women... I really don't. I don't really know any single women that are worth acting on. Not that I'm some prize catch or anything, it's just that you can usually just look at someone and realize, "Any relationship I have with this person will probably be unrewarding and short-lived." And, really, no relationship at all is probably better than unrewarding and short-lived.
    You dont really know it. Unless you yourself are the reason why the relationship is gonna go crap. All these sound like a rationalization upon why you dont do anything. Take a change. Have some fun. Learn something. ANd prepare to be surprised

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creep Of a beast View Post
    You dont really know it. Unless you yourself are the reason why the relationship is gonna go crap. All these sound like a rationalization upon why you dont do anything. Take a change. Have some fun. Learn something. ANd prepare to be surprised
    Well, I mean, of course I don't really know, and maybe I'd have more fun than I think I would. And yeah, I'm probably a shiftless pussy when it comes to these things, but really, looking at most people you can generally feel out whether or not you'd enjoy their company and whether you could really get close to them.

    I mean, of all the could-be romantic relationships I've had, most of them were just really hollow and transient and superficial... There was only, like, this surface level thing going on and no real depth that warranted getting in closer. I mean, you can only drink so many coffees and have so many empty conversations before you just get tired of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Knight View Post
    Not that I'm some prize catch or anything, it's just that you can usually just look at someone and realize, "Any relationship I have with this person will probably be unrewarding and short-lived." And, really, no relationship at all is probably better than unrewarding and short-lived.
    Ugh. I wish I couldn't just recognize that a relationship with the person would be unrewarding and short-lived, because then maybe I'd have enough "experience" to be confident with some girl who was theoretically worth having a relationship with (not that I know terribly many---any?---of those). Of course, you can always just persuade yourself that you don't know and any relationship could turn out to be more than you expected. But then I'm afraid that leads to persuading yourself not to end things in order to avoid hurting other people. Which turns into persuading yourself that you love some girl you don't love so you can get married. Which turns into persuading yourself that you're happy while living in permanent middle-class doldrums when in reality you could have had it all, rolling in the deep.

    I'm not so much afraid of being hurt myself---I mean, I have coping mechanisms, and I know what they are. I'm more afraid of hurting hypothetical-girlfriend. But love involves hurting and being hurt, and it's another arena of life where you just have to do as little harm as possible.

    Anyway, me personally, I awkwardly (and usually drunkenly) try to flirt, and have no idea how to go about it, nor what are positive and negative signals. I attempt to indicate (too subtly) my intentions (if positive, if forward), but cannot say anything overtly for fear I have misread the situation (once a girl had me sitting on her lap, and she wouldn't let me get up, and she clearly wanted it because she made out with like three guys at that party and she kept biting my shoulder. I had no idea how to proceed. I am rather an idiot). I am much better at damping things down by acting noncommittal.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    I dont think there is much sense to be worried about hurting the other. If the terms of what belongs into relationship is accepted by going into relationship that also includes the potential and possibility of being hurt, but also the possiblity of the opposite and blossoming of the relationship. So if one goes into the relationship one should accept to work for the positive outcome and have faith in it enough to iniate. But the reason that it might fail isnt reason enough to not try it. One needs just some courage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Yesss. I can pretty much tell how things are going to work out once I've zoned out a person, sometimes in a matter of seconds. If it doesn't fit the bill, I don't waste my time (or I toy around with it). I do sometimes feel like I give up a lot of experiences by being so picky this way, but I also feel as if it saves me a lot of time and heartache. I'm pretty good at picking up things & mistakes others have made & using those things to my advantage. I'm really good at picking out red flags.

    The thing is, with aggressors this doesn't always work, even if I spot flags... once an aggressor tastes blood they'll relentlessly hunt to their hearts content (especially SXE's). I really do think that aggressors tend to bore easily & that they find the victims "games" to be an enjoyable challenge. They're the only types that have ever been able to one up me & actually break through.
    I'm curious, does this apply equally to men and women aggressors?

    I know a woman I suspect is SLE-Ti and am trying to figure her out. She doesn't seem like she'd be the chaser so much as the chased (though still very much in control). Perhaps she is really LSI-Se.

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    I've gotta get me a sexy aggressor lady.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Aggressors play 'games', too; it's more to do with maturity level and culture, not type.
    yeh everyone plays games, especially the ones who say they're not into playing games.... they're the worst...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    lol. I've always kind of figured this. This is the reason why I rarely smile at men. If I'm in an area with a lot of drunken people I've learned to not even look at a man in the eyes for more than 1 second.
    lol thats a good idea
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    lol. I've always kind of figured this. This is the reason why I rarely smile at men. If I'm in an area with a lot of drunken people I've learned to not even look at a man in the eyes for more than 1 second.
    i think that's kind of normal isn't it? i tend to find myself circling around people or to the side of people. i don't really make eye contact much unless:
    a) i want to provoke someone a little
    b) we're having an "intense" interaction
    c) i want to keep some distance

    a - i tend to back off a little, if someone seems to get overwhelmed by too much eye contact, then resume, but tend towards a little overwhelming rather than a lot overwhelming.

    b - some people get faster / more rapid / more intense with more eye contact, but it's more engaging, and i get bored of conversations that lack intensity easier.

    c - for some people i find that they want to get to know you more, and find you more interesting or something if you make less eye contact, and sometimes i find that having a front of kinds is a good way to maintain distance, and it's easier to maintain with more eye contact et cetera, it's kind of like reducing and kind of curiosity of the unknown by being known, but boring.

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    Why do you make eye contact if you want to keep some distance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    Why do you make eye contact if you want to keep some distance?
    i decided to clarify already

    it's kind of like if you don't speak too much, don't make eye contact too much etc you can seem easier for others to want to get closer to, but if you'd louder, more direct etc you're harder. but if people want to challenge that you have to be rediculous, with outlandish ideas or something.

    that said sometimes i don't care that much about keeping distance, 'cos i won't see the person again. so i'll just like not care about boundaries and distance and shit. and just figure it'll be over soon enough.

    does that make sense?

    the most recent example i can think of about wanting to keep distance, but not seeing the person again, was some girl who was saying that i looked bohemian and i was like no i don't, and then she tried another angle, i can't remember what it was. but she kept trying to flatter me in a sanguine glib way or something with mistruths. although i didn't make eye contact with her, and maybe if i had it would have helped me maintain distance. i just had that other feeling, that she may take it as interest.
    Last edited by Satan; 11-05-2011 at 02:58 PM.

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    I really wanted an explanation, but it's obvious you don't want to give me one.
    Really, not even a brief message?
    I guess I'm not going to get that last conversation.

    I trusted you with my insecurities, and now you used them against me.
    Really, nice move not letting me know anything, while you know I desire to understand situations,
    and I keep endlessly dwelling on them.
    Sure, in your mind you'll justify it with: 'He said things I didn't like so I can make him feel bad '

    You managed to push away a person who sincerely cared for you.

    You're quite a self-centered individual, and you have managed to prove me wrong.
    You're just like everyone else after all.

    Liar.

    I blocked him on an instant messenger.


    He told me not to tell him my schedule/what I was doing. So I didn't.

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    A guy said that?
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    /thread
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    That guy sounds clingy and desperate. I dont think thats victim related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrangea View Post
    I blocked him on an instant messenger.


    He told me not to tell him my schedule/what I was doing. So I didn't.
    I'm glad you broke that off!
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    Me too, if only he would leave me alone/let it be.

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    Before I met my husband, I dated an LIE for a year and a half. He was critical and baited me all the time, and then I'd get upset. I don't know, maybe that's what he was going for. Anyway, we got along pretty well for a while but obviously things didn't work out forever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    Before I met my husband, I dated an LIE for a year and a half. He was critical and baited me all the time, and then I'd get upset. I don't know, maybe that's what he was going for. Anyway, we got along pretty well for a while but obviously things didn't work out forever.
    Do you mind explaining how he baited you?
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    Well ok so it's been a LONG time - I'm old and I've been married a while now. But as I recall, he would comment on every single thing, and I don't like criticism, and it felt to me like he did it on purpose, to get me to respond to his criticism - like he was upsetting me on purpose. But that could be just my perception, I don't know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    I'm glad you broke that off!
    Poor Delta NF's, they always get abused by evil people.
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    Hydrangea, do you feel you acted rationally or ethically? I'm really curious here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ineffable View Post
    Poor Delta NF's, they always get abused by evil people.
    What is up with you AGAIN? This is because of stuff she said in chat, not about specifically being Delta NF, and the guy didnt' sound evil.
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    I blocked every single person on my contacts list but the ones that never speak to me so that I could have some much needed me time. He had told me the day before not to tell him of my goings on so I did not. I did as he asked, I don't understand how this comes down to a question of ethics.

    He asked me how he was supposed to anticipate that telling me that would lead to me cutting all contact with no explanation, and I merely explained he should think before he requests. I was trying to please him, to do as he wished.

    Did I act rationally? Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    What is up with you AGAIN? This is because of stuff she said in chat, not about specifically being Delta NF, and the guy didnt' sound evil.
    That was just a general observation, they always dramatize such situations, gossip and jump in "support".

    I agree that it's good that she broke the deal, however IMO she should have told him and explain him first. If he refused to understand, then yes, block him. I am personally offended by such behavior and I'm telling you that besides there is no reason to behave like this, it creates a negative potential: that person may get angry and abuse someone who he perceives "the same" or whatever. This is a dumb approach, the person should be confronted and try to discharge the emotional load first. I was myself target of such guy on a website who picked on me because he got offended by what I wrote in my profile. He saw my pictures and threatened me, however, I confronted him and asked what his problem was - it was apparently about his prefered musical style - I explained it was a misunderstanting, we talked a bit, by-bye and that was it.

    Those kinds of revenge are stupid and no, it was merely technically reasonable what she has done, not in reality - in other words you do shit but feel good about yourself because that's not written anywhere. It is an offense to silence someone when he's looking for answers - again, not when the situation was clarified but he refuses to understand. You may say "but it's his problem, I don't want to answer him", though in that case I would ask you: what if you work for a company and then suddenly you're fired without any reason? In the end it's only your interest, they don't give a shit about what you want. The fact that there are laws regulating employment and there are no laws regulating IM conversations does not make them different cases, the company can do you if the want to. I think anyone has a right to know why his interests need to be dismissed, it's common-sense and polite. These acts of suppression should be discouraged instead of encouraged, IMO, and I think you have the means to understand how arrogance creates negative emotions.
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    Clarity resolves these issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewBorn STAR View Post
    Victim males How do you act with women.
    If im enfj then
    Personally i act like aggressor. If see someone interesting i start chasing and harrasing her, and try to get her see my positive value and will to have her. Now im trying to get an infp girl, but as i have just started to get on the meds so i shouldnt really leave this place. Im being 50% and 50% about leaving. As i think i dont really care about the danger. Actually its a bit thrilling
    Basically, victim males try really hard to be like aggressors when trying to pick up someone? I'd assume they only do that out of compensation, for if they actually went for an aggressor, they would not have to do that.

    I could only see that approach working with fellow Victims. When both people are Victims, someone has to strengthen their "Aggressor side", and put that forward, otherwise I cannot see how a relationship between two Victims would start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Basically, victim males try really hard to be like aggressors when trying to pick up someone? I'd assume they only do that out of compensation, for if they actually went for an aggressor, they would not have to do that.

    I could only see that approach working with fellow Victims. When both people are Victims, someone has to strengthen their "Aggressor side", and put that forward, otherwise I cannot see how a relationship between two Victims would start.
    In the couple of victim/victim relationships I was in, in my quadra, I took the aggressor role but only after they made the first move. I didn't really pursue until I knew I had to keep it going because I was interested in seeing where it lead. I had been in relationship with SLE before that so I kind of knew what to do. It was not easy on the practical, day to day aspects, but they were a lot of fun.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    I was thinking about how I don't relate a lot to the Victim thing, but some of what was mentioned does make sense.

    I do provoke responses from people. I think I test for certainty. I typically enter a Socratic dialogue where I am asking my partner for more information or clarification.

    I love for things to be explained to me in Ti. It feels very comfortable. Like I finally found a source of information I can just listen to and trust.

    I also saw in this thread that Victims will test their partners to see if they are worthy. I have been accused of doing this, but I don't consciously do it. I don't think this is a healthy thing though.

    So if I think about it I want a steadfast and certain partner I can trust to take away my doubts and indecisions. In that way, I can see myself as a victim wanting an aggressor.

    I have been attracted to very strong women, they usually have a very powerful aura about them. I think it's because of what I said above.
    The Barnum or Forer effect is the tendency for people to judge that general, universally valid statements about personality are actually specific descriptions of their own personalities. A "universally valid" statement is one that is true of everyone—or, more likely, nearly everyone. It is not known why people tend to make such misjudgments, but the effect has been experimentally reproduced.

    The psychologist Paul Meehl named this fallacy "the P.T. Barnum effect" because Barnum built his circus and dime museum on the principle of having something for everyone. It is also called "the Forer effect" after its discoverer, the psychologist Bertram R. Forer, who modestly dubbed it "the fallacy of personal validation".

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    I actually don't like the name "erotic attitudes" but anyway, they way I see it it's just how people behave in romantic relationships.
    Let's just say we keep the name. I agree that the victims have high Ni.

    In my experience, I always know what I want, and I always expect something to happen, so I'm the one who's in control, and I initiate my aggressor to do that thing to me.

    And this could be anything.
    Even in the early stage like flirting. I ENJOY flirting. And I tend to test people, ask questions, in a playful way, I like to see their reactions (kinda like to match with my Ni I guess) and I can see if someone can keep up with my game, they're must be my aggressors, SEE, ESI, LSI, SLE. Especially SLEs.

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