4w3-5w6-8w7
I've definitely been guilty of what's described in OP rather often. That, of course, means nothing until and unless my type is determined for the purposes of comparison, but as I understand socionics, I'm highly adverse to considering eye-contact Fi related - rather Fe-related, having to do with in-the-moment interaction on an intangible, implicit level, similar to how a lot of body language seems to work.
I dont think Fe and Fi can be compartmentalized like that. One serves the other. E.g. I use eye contact to enhance my attempts at building a relationship and connection with someone. I also tend to use a person's gaze to assess their feelings towards me or others (of course as just one element of many).Originally Posted by Aiss
But yes, I had considered the lack of eye contact to be a manifestation of weak Fe (whether it's seeking or POLR or role or HA). And the Fi i understood to exist between us was what made my friend's lack of eye contact largely irrelevant.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
That's a really good point.
Sure they can't. That's why I tend to disagree when people insist only valued or only strong functions matter. Usually you demonstrate one when creating the other. Or suck at both. Or something of the sort.
Anyway, most of my current understanding of Fe and Fi in relation to body language and such developed while talking to Mattie, who's IEE herself, and argued for reading body language, so it's not exactly a Fi-doesn't-care crusade.
my only thoughts about eye contact and type are that introverts are more likely to not make eye contact so much; Se leads often make a lot of eye contact; some people were abused as children and don't look at anyone; a lot of people have trained themselves to establish eye contact as it's considered a must in self-presentation. I don't feel I (or anyone) should have to try to engage in eye contact if I don't feel like it.
yeah it is... I agree...
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
If I'm explaining something that requires thought, I have to 'look at' a mental image, which I sort of hallucinate onto thin air next to me, and I have to look at something less distracting than a face, in order to see the mental image. I might draw a vague picture with vague shapes and lines in it, again, using my imagination, and I can't see the picture if I'm looking at a face. If I have to struggle to remember something, again, I can't remember it if I'm looking at anything distracting.
If I'm using particular drugs, like St. John's Wort (which I am not using anymore), I fearlessly stare directly into the eyes of everyone, including strangers who are passing me in public places, without smiling, with a blank facial expression. Guys often take this to mean that I am sexually interested in them.
But I personally don't understand what would make someone spend the majority of the conversation not looking at you. I don't do that. I glance often at the other person's eyes but not constantly. The only time that I have ever spent a large amount of time not looking at someone, it was because it was someone who I strongly disliked and did not want to be talking to. I did not want to feel connected to that person. It was like being violated.
If physical contact is allowed, then I look in their eyes a lot more. When I look directly in someone's eyes without looking away, I become excited and I start breathing faster. (There was actually a scientific study that agreed that this was real, but I forget where I read it.) It feels like fear, and it feels like connection. Physical touch lets you express it. But if you're physically repulsed by the other person, then you don't want to connect with their eyes, and you don't want to invite them to touch you.
Then again, I also avoided looking too much at someone because I was too intensely attracted to him - the opposite situation. I felt attracted to him, but I believed he wasn't attracted to me. I didn't want to overwhelm him with my deep, adoring gaze, only to get myself rejected and hurt because I could not go farther and touch him. So I politely glanced at him sometimes but not for long.
If I'm sick or exhausted, I avoid eye contact. (Other people said the same thing in previous comments.)
Beta Stare
Easy Day
Would that change anything if they were actually thinking they wouldn't encounter opposition?
I caught this thread about an hour ago, and this has been spinning around in my mind ever since. No offense or anything, just an honest question, but if you did not know much about her--or if she was a complete stranger--why would you assume first off that she was a rude person? Or rather, a better question: you do in fact know a lot about her, but then you say:
Why is your first impulse to make what psychologists call a "character attribution", i.e. assuming that her behavior here is a result of her general character rather than her behavior being a result of the specific situation she is in?I think she does that because she's shy, just totally oblivious to social conventions, and has a poor ability to recognize how she is coming across.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
Looking away from people increases the processing power. In a broader context I think looking away for a few seconds as your thinking is pretty much normal. Continually looking takes away brain power.
There are some people that keep it locked even when they're talking and it's really creepy.....creepy.
what???
What I said was that I DO know her very well, she's an old friend i hadn't seen in a long time.
I think a lot of you are imagining the scenario incorrectly. I'm not talking about the normal breaks in eye contact that people normally do that avoids creepiness and allows the speaker time to think. This was like a long creepy stare but the OPPOSITE in that it was a long creepy avoidance of eye contact, like off to the side upwards somewhere in lalaland. It was like she had her eyes rolled up in her head except off to the side. If there were other people in the restaurant, I would have thought she's looking at them instead of focusing on our conversation and thus rude. But I know her. I know she's quirky. I know she's socially a little inept. So I knew this was not the case and thus I didn't take offense.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I don't know.what???I was recently reading about how people tend to understand unexpected behavior from others and some common errors they make. I think I got a little too abstract there.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
I recently read something about how sociopaths do this intense eye contact thing, so it may not always be type related. However, animals stare each other down to decide/display dominance, and you've gotta do that with people sometimes. Since people are more complex, refusing to meet their gaze also says something about power though... like you're not even willing to engage them in that manner. Either you know you're dominant or you know they are, and there's no point in questioning it.
Eye contact rarely makes me uncomfortable, but I don't naturally maintain actual eye contact with someone for long. It feels like I kind of look through their eyes most of the time, but to make actual eye contact I have to consciously change the focus to make their eyes more clear. O.o
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
I do that sometimes when I'm very into a conversation, although I do look to the side occasionally while thinking. Sometimes I hold long eye contact as a game or for kicks.
Reason is a whore.
It seems commonplace to make the false assumption that sociopathy is NTR. It may be true after all, however the belief itself is unjustified, as it is the case with other traits determined in other fields or systems (including personality disorders or E-type). There is no principle dissociating or associating the sociotypes from/with specific peculiar personality patterns distinguished formerly, neither a guarantee that they relate the same way to the Model: some disorders may be type-related, others may not.
Not when people look at you and when you look back they don't.
This ^
One thing I've been wanting to try for some time now is to sit on a bed with someone, facing each other looking straight into the eyes, and see what happens. Not aggressively like in a staring contest, but quietly, without making any faces and just - being. I don't know if I could actually do it, as maintaining an eye-contact even in a normal conversation always begins to feel too intimate at some point, but I'd want to try. The other person would probably have to be my future boyfriend if I ever get one, so that it wouldn't feel too awkward.
I like eye contact. Eye contact is fun. I once had a staring contest with the Mona Lisa. I lost. Probably because it was a print.
I like to stare at friends who are self-conscious. Sometimes grin at the same time.
Eye contact also shows self-assurance and that the person is paying attention to you, or at least staring at you while daydreaming of someone else.
wow cool, just noticed my thread got resurrected! Totally forgot i started this one!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yeah, I've been wanting to get laid for some time now, too.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Lol
My place or your place?Lol
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I bet my bed is bigger & more comfortable!
Maybe. But I have cookies.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Eye contact doesn't make me uncomfortable unless it feels like the person is flirting with me. Sometimes I avoid it to avoid appearing as though I'm flirting. I don't think I maintain eye contact long most of the time because my eyes sort of wander all over the place taking note of everything around me (not on purpose, it's just what I do). At work I also look away when I'm thinking about something.
Coming right over.
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