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Thread: ESIs who think marriage is gay, stupid, and should be abolished

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    Default ESIs who think marriage is gay, stupid, and should be abolished

    please state your name and the day and time you'd like to exchange your type for another one, because you don't exist.

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    Which ESI rejected your marriage proposal?

    Also LOL at calling marriage "gay". It's so ironic, considering the same-sex marriage issues.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade COVID 007's Avatar
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    OK. The guardians of the socion...
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

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    I currently know 4 ESI men who have this mindset. I think it has to do with their Ne Painful more than anything. And they keep looking for "the one". A kind of idealistic outlook on relations which might leave them lonely in their old age

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    Who are you vagueing/venting about and why here

    EDIT: rhetorical in a way, I don't care for answers
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    i think marriage is stupid, and that's why i never really supported gay marriage after high school, i didn't see the need for anyone to get married so i was like "it's just marriage, why the hell does anyone care?"

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    J types prefer long relations.
    In average and majority case the theory should work. But it's not about all possible cases.

    There can be reasons besides Jung types what may influence to avoid marriages.
    For example, the lack of trust to people - that it's low possibly a man will not be cheating, will not leave, will keep good emotions for long, will cooperate acceptably to support needs of both. To protect from such, some people may avoid strong emotions and relations where they depend significantly from others.
    Mainly marriages are made because of emotional wish to be with other one. To have deep emotions of loving, friendship may be harder by different reasons and those people have lesser interest to long and close relations as marriages.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    I think the cost/benefit of marriage as opposed to long term cohabitation is questionable and ambiguous when considering things like a nice wedding ceremony and honeymoon versus tax benefits etc, I dunno about all that math, and since it's almost never used these days as an unofficial license for sex it otherwise seems to just be a way of bestowing subjective value upon the participants. Anyway, I have a lot of thoughts, lol, many personal (I was consoling my boyfriend who was distraught about the recent consequences of not marrying me the other day, which is contributing to this thought dump. Healthcare directives are important if someone you love is at risk of being handed to someone with bad intentions while vulnerable, by the way!)

    In short, lol, ESI here and it's not the be all end all and also not GAY. Does anybody think it should be abolished? Is that a thing? Weird.

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    I know an ESI-Se who is gay but not married. I should ask her what her thoughts on marriage are. Lol.

    Her SEE-IEI parents just got a divorce, so she might be biased right now.

    I get the sense that she wouldn’t want to be married to anyone because she’s e6w7, but I really don’t know what she thinks about that. Her first GF was an SLE, and now she's with an Identical. It might take some time before she runs out of every bad option.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-30-2020 at 02:30 PM.

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    Even though many can be door-mats, more than a few ESIs are selfish in that they want things on their schedule and on their terms. Some use marriage as a mechanism to further their own objectives but then live separate and apart (mentally) from their spouses. Many self-sufficient ESIs prefer to have partners who are on-call rather than live-in.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    It also just occurred to me that I know a male ESI who is gay and is with an ILI. I've known this guy for nine years. He's a great guy. I think he wishes that I were gay. Lol.
    He's with the ILI because the ILI is his best option. He's not ecstatic about it.

    This ESI is about the worst long-term planner that I know. He has a PhD and no retirement savings and still lives in an apt despite moving to the States from Germany twenty years ago.

    Maybe, as @Zero said, this is some kind of Ne-painful commitment-phobia. ESI's either jump at the first rabbit that catches their eye, or they think think think it to death and end up doing nothing. Analysis paralysis.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-30-2020 at 02:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Even though many can be door-mats, more than a few ESIs are selfish in that they want things on their schedule and on their terms. Some use marriage as a mechanism to further their own objectives but then live separate and apart (mentally) from their spouses. Many self-sufficient ESIs prefer to have partners who are on-call rather than live-in.

    a.k.a. I/O
    @Rebelondeck, I hate to say this, but when I'm not with a long-term permanent partner, I think I devolve to wanting a GF who is on-call. I'm not happy about this side of myself, either. It basically indicates that I will compromise my values just for sex and entertainment. For a while, at least.

    Maybe that's the approach those ESI's you spoke of are taking.

    I think the thing I worry about in relationships is, "Does this woman really love me?" Weirdly enough, in discussions with that above-mentioned gay ESI-Se 6w7 about the art that I sometimes buy from her, she seems to have a lot of concerns about whether I like it or not. Really, really like it, she means. Like it from my heart, with all my heart, forever and ever.
    God, I bought it, didn't I? Settle down, bitch.*

    Fuck, maybe undualized Duals share the same fears.

    *

    If she wants forever loyalty, she should get my sperm inside her body.

    I was talking to my lawyer about changing my will, because the ex got her share already. Split equally among the women I've had sex with. There should be some compensation for that. Lol.

    He suggested that I give this some thought. I said, That's my intention, if my son doesn't have kids and I don't get remarried.
    He said, Think about it.

    Fuck, what does he know? He's been divorced three times.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-30-2020 at 03:24 PM.

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    Well if they have nothing to lose from not being married, of course they prefer not to. The point is with most Te dominants you will have a lot to lose since they use the external laws as basis for our behavior. Basically a non-married Te dominant would think it's fine to go and have sex with other men or women whereas a married one would think it's forbidden.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well if they have nothing to lose from not being married, of course they prefer not to. The point is with most Te dominants you will have a lot to lose since they use the external laws as basis for our behavior. Basically a non-married Te dominant would think it's fine to go and have sex with other men or women whereas a married one would think it's forbidden.
    I completely agree with that, @FDG. It is exactly how I think and how I operate.

    When I was married, I didn't consider other women. Not for a split second, even though there were some pretty direct offers. Cheating just was not on the table of options.

    OTOH, when I was dating, I was non-exclusive and told the women that. Just to be clear.

    Gamma. The Contract Quadrant.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-30-2020 at 03:18 PM.

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    I thought it was a bit silly personally how gay activists pushed the gay marriage issue because I never cared for it. It seemed like most gay activism was about the right to be a boring and conservative str8 person (the right to join the military openly, the right to be married, the right to be an asshole masculine conservative douche but still like dick etc) rather than true queer liberation. But I guess somebody tried to explain to me that it was about the principal of the matter and that all other issues somehow magically stemmed from the gay marriage thing. I still never really got it but whatever. It's legal now right so who cares.

    Gay or straight tho I just watched something on the boring Te-valuing Delta news about how most marriages are down by like 38% or something? (I forgot the exact number okay but it was pretty big) That didn't really surprise me or anything, I mean- getting married DOES leave you open to being backstabbed financially by a bitter spouse if it doesn't work out. Why risk that? 'lol you pissed me off in the Fi way now out of revenge I'm going to get my lawyer and take half of what you own!' Whereas... if they never got married in the first place the single person could still keep all their stuff right. (as long as they weren't stupid or naive enough to get other joint account crap)

    There are also benefits sure but I think the downsides have outweighed the good. Why would anybody want to put up with the heartless business Te crap of marriage if it wasn't part of their normal job lol. Even when Te is not ur polr it seems wise to just avoid it. Most of today's society pays more attention to the negative than positive anyway. I think something has to be REALLY good to even be 'good' or that some ppl want to get involved in because, it's too easy nowadays to just look at the dark of everything.

    (btw I didn't mean to imply a Fi valuer would file for divorce more than a Fe valuer would sorry, I just think it's kind of a Fi-ish thing to me)
    Last edited by BandD; 07-01-2020 at 05:08 AM.

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    Most women now have more options in life than just marriage.

    "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle."

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    This thread



    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Even though many can be door-mats, more than a few ESIs are selfish in that they want things on their schedule and on their terms. Some use marriage as a mechanism to further their own objectives but then live separate and apart (mentally) from their spouses. Many self-sufficient ESIs prefer to have partners who are on-call rather than live-in.

    a.k.a. I/O
    LOL ESI doormats..

    Paul Teutul Sr. is ESI. e_e you don't mess with Fi-Se..

    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 07-01-2020 at 07:24 AM.

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    @shotgunfingers Yes, I've met many who simply saluted and did what they were told even though, deep down, they didn't like it; now, some brave souls would try to subvert the order if they thought they could get away with it. Ijs tend to know which side of the bread the butter is on. With the simmering rage, that person's behaviour seems more Ip-like (SXI?) than Ij but I wouldn't trust my typing of public personas because I don't know how much of it is put on for the camera.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @shotgunfingers Yes, I've met many who simply saluted and did what they were told even though, deep down, they didn't like it; now, some brave souls would try to subvert the order if they thought they could get away with it. Ijs tend to know which side of the bread the butter is on. With the simmering rage, that person's behaviour seems more Ip-like (SXI?) than Ij but I wouldn't trust my typing of public personas because I don't know how much of it is put on for the camera.

    a.k.a. I/O
    His book is so damn Fi-Se. Otherwise you wouldn't guess, yeah. How he runs his business is very ESI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    His book is so damn Fi-Se......
    Did he write it himself - or did a ghostwriter help him? Does he have an accountant who advises him?

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Did he write it himself - or did a ghostwriter help him? Does he have an accountant who advises him?

    a.k.a. I/O
    Lets just say the old man has strong values according to which he runs his business and an equally strong moral backbone. He seems to care less about efficiency & Te logic, more about his relationship with the people who work for him as well as the relationship with his clients.

    He probably approved it at the very least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    This thread





    LOL ESI doormats..

    Paul Teutul Sr. is ESI. e_e you don't mess with Fi-Se..

    What do you mean about messing. There are contracts and agreements and no shouting is going to enforce a contract which does not exist.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    What do you mean about messing. There are contracts and agreements and no shouting is going to enforce a contract which does not exist.
    I meant ESI are not doormats. ESI are more likely to be reliable & hold up their end of the bargain or exceed expectations.. but also to expect or more likely demand reciprocity. Se egos have strong volition. I respect my conflictors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Even though many can be door-mats, more than a few ESIs are selfish in that they want things on their schedule and on their terms. Some use marriage as a mechanism to further their own objectives but then live separate and apart (mentally) from their spouses. Many self-sufficient ESIs prefer to have partners who are on-call rather than live-in.

    a.k.a. I/O
    My friend believes my mom is ESI, and it definitely is "her way or the highway." She is extremely stubborn. My dad also always wants to help her with different things, and she won't have it. She does real-estate, and she is super busy. He constantly offers to help, but she refuses to let him, and seems annoyed even by the gesture. Then again, my dad is extremely chatty and she may not want him to say the wrong thing or screw something up. I'm not sure what my dads type is, but he's a great salesman and is very personable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I meant ESI are not doormats. ESI are more likely to be reliable & hold up their end of the bargain or exceed expectations.. but also to expect or more likely demand reciprocity. Se egos have strong volition. I respect my conflictors.
    They don´ t normally use their strong volition as "anger" in their day to day relationships otherwise they would not be IxFx types. Of course there might be specific examples where this doesn´t happen but they´re not typical.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    It also just occurred to me that I know a male ESI who is gay and is with an ILI. I've known this guy for nine years. He's a great guy. I think he wishes that I were gay. Lol.
    He's with the ILI because the ILI is his best option. He's not ecstatic about it.

    This ESI is about the worst long-term planner that I know. He has a PhD and no retirement savings and still lives in an apt despite moving to the States from Germany twenty years ago.

    Maybe, as @Zero said, this is some kind of Ne-painful commitment-phobia. ESI's either jump at the first rabbit that catches their eye, or they think think think it to death and end up doing nothing. Analysis paralysis.
    Maybe he hates the maintenance involved in owning a home, or he's afraid of getting screwed and buying the house version of a lemon. Also maybe he just doesn't want to feel tied down.

    I don't understand the no savings part. Maybe he just wanted to spend it immediately for the better lifestyle? Some PhDs aren't rich, too. Maybe he can't afford it lol.

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    @ OP

    I think there is a lot of hurt there at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voider View Post
    Which ESI rejected your marriage proposal?

    Also LOL at calling marriage "gay". It's so ironic, considering the same-sex marriage issues.
    I could launch into a lecture as to how it's oh so very ironic that people are calling marriage "gay" now. But I'm a bit too tired to do the subject adequate justice.

    I'll just plant a seed here and now: History is made by those who "show up" as it were. Please tell me what kinds of thoughts that triggers within you and provide your type if you're not a Gamma folks. I got theories I desire to verify. Provide me the data I seek and you'll have my gratitude.
    Last edited by End; 07-03-2020 at 01:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I could launch into a lecture as to how it's oh so very ironic that people are calling marriage "gay" now. But I'm a bit too tired to do the subject adequate justice.

    I'll just plant a seed here and now: History is made by those who "show up" as it were. Please tell me what kinds of thoughts that triggers within you and provide your type if you're not a Gamma folks. I got theories I desire to verify. Provide me the data I seek and you'll have my gratitude.
    I'm confused.

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    excuse me what the mothertrucking frick is going on in this thread
    凸(`△´+)

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    I'll just plant a seed here and now: History is made by those who "show up" as it were. Please tell me what kinds of thoughts that triggers within you and provide your type if you're not a Gamma folks. I got theories I desire to verify. Provide me the data I seek and you'll have my gratitude.
    It means the whole thing is a farce, driven forward only by one vocal minority or another at any given time, and seldom aligns with the actual will of the common man. In a world worth a damn, history would be impossible. History is not an arc with a destination, but a cauldron of endless flux, of which the hard iron walls never truly change throughout all of time.


    - ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I completely agree with that, @FDG. It is exactly how I think and how I operate.

    When I was married, I didn't consider other women. Not for a split second, even though there were some pretty direct offers. Cheating just was not on the table of options.

    OTOH, when I was dating, I was non-exclusive and told the women that. Just to be clear.

    Gamma. The Contract Quadrant.
    I think this might vary wildly in details of contract. But contract, yes
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