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Thread: Chess: Is it type-related?

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    Darn Socks DirectorAbbie's Avatar
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    Default Chess: Is it type-related?

    I doubt there is any type without some representative who plays chess. But surely the manner in which people plays varies according to type. This morning I played against my SLE brother with Brilliand watching. Brilliand mentioned planning a strategy by looking at every possibility. I called him a holographic.

    When I play chess, I don't plan more than three moves in advance, I focus on positions more than time (number of moves), I drop my strategy and make a new one for every turn, and I like the knights more than the bishops.

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    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Chess at a professional/really good level is not, as that's just execution of ridiculous amounts of memorized openings, responses, mid game etc. (with the excuse of later game craaaaziness).

    However if you got someone all into it and stuff who isn't a master, and told them to sit down and plan something out/explain it to you/observe them while they do it, you would theoretically be able to make connections between that and their type, albeit with much difficulty. Proficiency is probably not related.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
    Chess at a professional/really good level is not, as that's just execution of ridiculous amounts of memorized openings, responses, mid game etc. (with the excuse of later game craaaaziness).

    Proficiency is probably not related.


    Not type related.

    I love chess personally! Got to play it the other day at work actually, at the psychiatric hospital. Against one of the kids who was pretty good, who regularly beat the other kids and the other staff, said he'd been playing since age 7. Beat him haha.

    I also learned chess when I was very little, playing against my dad, and then he got me an electronic board where I could play against the computer. Through my teen years, I played against people online a lot, and got the Chessmaster CD games for fun, and studied, played, and learned a lot from them.

    Never did any formal competition, but I have always loved playing it.

    Haven't tried Go before, like others mentioned. But I do love Monopoly a lot too. Risk is quite fun, but sometimes takes way too long, and involves way too much dice-rolling that it gets boring for me.

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    This is the pawn setup I've used every game since I was like 10:


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    I really got into chess some time ago, got a few books, became a member of the USCF and participated in an official tournament. And yes, I do agree that there might be some type-related things going on when it comes to how you play chess. Since I'm not even close to chessmaster level, I decided to learn/memorize unconventional, but studied, openings that would take another opponent of my level off-guard. Then, try not to lose pieces necessarily through exchanges (that's a noob way to play chess, hehe). I focus a lot on the mental aspect of chess, as in factors that go into play during a game that affect your decision-making skills, which is why I like going for the unconventional to try and give me an edge.

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    I suck at chess. It's not that I'd play regularly or had a lot experience, but the few times I played were pretty disappointing. I'm not good at following a strategy, because my opponent typically doesn't do what I expect him to do. And I often miss critical details. One moment of carelessness might cost you an important piece and your game is ruined. It can be a very frustrating game for me.
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    I don't know if any of this is type related, but here goes. . .

    Chess has always been one of my favorite games, and a game I "hope" my future man will love and be proficient at! At least, I hope he's better at it then I am, and I'm not bad. . . I've won many a chess tournament.

    My ISTj brother got me into chess when I was a little girl and I've always been into it since. He taught me all the best strategies etc. so you could say I've kind of learned to parrot his strategies. . . and he's a chess master.

    I say, bring it on!

    My other favorite board games to play are:
    Boggle (which I've never met anyone that could beat me at the game. . . and I've played hundreds in my life time. . . so disappointing. )
    Scattagories (almost as amazing as Boggle)
    Bulderdash
    Clue
    Cranium
    Egyptian Rat Slap
    and Connect Four (another game my ISTj brother got me in to. . .)

    My favorite outdoor games are:
    volleyball
    soccer
    ultimate frisbee
    and, fast ball

    My favorite computer games are:
    Age of Empires (something my ENFj and ISTj brothers were into)
    The Sum of all Fears
    Simcity
    and, Crusader

    But beware! I'm really competitive. . . I rarely let anyone beat me without a fight.

    And yes, I grew up with four brothers. . . go figure.

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    In my experience, ISTxs are deadly at chess, if they take a strong interest in it.

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    I always thought it was an / thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    One moment of carelessness might cost you an important piece and your game is ruined.
    Interesting. Could you pease justify your conclusion? Is that something you perceive or you're just not so fond of chess, learning that from someone else/literature?
    Also, when that happens, do you still play until the conclusion or just quit, admitting defeat?

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    Squishy and I just played a game of chess. He started by sticking a pawn out by itself in line for my queen to take it, then spent several moves chasing my queen around. Brilliand came by and referred to the castle as a "rook," and I suggested we name them castles so we'd be sure they were. He named one Wichita Kansas and said that his side spoke a different language; "kansas" meant "castle." I named mine Old Beef and Sida Beef. He named his other one Topeka Kansas. Then I named my Queen "Ish."

    Squishy enjoyed torturing his prisoners. Our SLE brother stole Wichita Beef, which I had captured, and we had to get it back. Then our queens danced around. Then they were abducted by aliens. On Squishy's turn, there was an earthquake, and all the pieces went to one side of the board. Then the aliens put the queens back and his captured my king. So Squishy won the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Squishy and I just played a game of chess. He started by sticking a pawn out by itself in line for my queen to take it, then spent several moves chasing my queen around. Brilliand came by and referred to the castle as a "rook," and I suggested we name them castles so we'd be sure they were. He named one Wichita Kansas and said that his side spoke a different language; "kansas" meant "castle." I named mine Old Beef and Sida Beef. He named his other one Topeka Kansas. Then I named my Queen "Ish."

    Squishy enjoyed torturing his prisoners. Our SLE brother stole Wichita Beef, which I had captured, and we had to get it back. Then our queens danced around. Then they were abducted by aliens. On Squishy's turn, there was an earthquake, and all the pieces went to one side of the board. Then the aliens put the queens back and his captured my king. So Squishy won the game.
    that's totally awesome, especially the name "Old Beef" for one of the rooks (sounds like a old west town sheriff, grey hair, on the big side, probably with a moustache)

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    The Cake is a LIE Squishy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    This is the pawn setup I've used every game since I was like 10:


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    Cheater!! Black hasn't moved!

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    I don't like chess. It feels evil. Evil-er than a british accent, evil. You know tv shows always had the bad dude playing chess and grinning menacingly, right? I agree with that. Anything that requires that much cunning can't be morally good!

    lol. It just feels really autistic and too socially cut off or something.

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    I miss playing chess, it was one of my favourite games at school. Now I have no one willing to play with me these days
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

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    boring
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neotropic View Post
    I miss playing chess, it was one of my favourite games at school. Now I have no one willing to play with me these days
    Spend a few months in jail, you'll have plenty of time to hone your strategies against a wide range of opponents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Spend a few months in jail, you'll have plenty of time to hone your strategies against a wide range of opponents.
    Will you be there to play?
    The mode of goodness conditions one to happiness, passion conditions him to the fruits of action, and ignorance to madness.

    Chapter 14, Verse 9.
    The Bhagavad Gita

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    Chess is interesting. My main strategy is to maximize enemy casualties while minimizing my own. I wait until the last possible moment to sacrifice a piece, and even then only if I can gain a more important piece than the one I lost (importance based, of course, on the current board and the pieces there).

    I rarely ever forecast moves ahead. Not consciously, at least. I can anticipate enemy movements, though, and I usually act based on that.

    My strategy is very situational. I have never given time to study "real" chess strategy and I will probably never waste my time doing so. There has to be freedom of form- it is not interesting to me if the movements I make are just automatic reactions to stimulations, though the concept itself is interesting.

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    I find this interesting.

    I'm truly horrible at it. Mainly due to concentration problems, I think. It is not very conceptual game. It has fixed moves, character etc. Whenever I have played it I end up comparing it to other games, thinking about adding something extra to it, how it came to be, imagining why the opponent is so much in the present. Taking the whole board in with its details and that is truly beyond my capabilities.

    What is his type (Magnus Carlsen)?

    Pretty impressive. He claims to remember moves from 10,000 separate games.
    I even suck memory card games. My nephew (5 years) beats me at memory card games.
    I'm much better when I don't have to concentrate external details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    I find this interesting.

    I'm truly horrible at it. Mainly due to concentration problems, I think. It is not very conceptual game. It has fixed moves, character etc. Whenever I have played it I end up comparing it to other games, thinking about adding something extra to it, how it came to be, imagining why the opponent is so much in the present. Taking the whole board in with its details and that is truly beyond my capabilities.
    I totally see it like this. There's no overarching framework to be discovered with chess. It's just a series of this-causes-this-causes-this and you think about all of the choices and which is best. And I never got to the level when you can focus on playing the player - which I think would be fun because psychology - and I'm sure that you eventually move beyond that as chess masters stifle their personality with overanalysing the games.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClownsandEntropy View Post
    I totally see it like this. There's no overarching framework to be discovered with chess. It's just a series of this-causes-this-causes-this and you think about all of the choices and which is best. And I never got to the level when you can focus on playing the player - which I think would be fun because psychology - and I'm sure that you eventually move beyond that as chess masters stifle their personality with overanalysing the games.
    its one of the oldest and most studied games. Read up on how chess developed, the different metagames that took hold, different strategies that were discovered then countered. It's a great study on how game strategy develops given enough time until it is eventually almost completely solved, lack of personality = every best move has been studied and solved for the openings etc. but that's not a reason to call it inferior. It's just old

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryoka14 View Post
    its one of the oldest and most studied games. Read up on how chess developed, the different metagames that took hold, different strategies that were discovered then countered. It's a great study on how game strategy develops given enough time until it is eventually almost completely solved, lack of personality = every best move has been studied and solved for the openings etc. but that's not a reason to call it inferior. It's just old
    Don't want to get off tangent too much, but I think it's not so much the fact that it is solved as much as the fact that it can be solved so computationally. Like Catan has some pretty reliable strategies (probably), but you still don't know if it will work because of chance and the people, and you need to see where the board takes you. To me it seems like a dull stint in fully exhaustive optimisation. I compare it to procurement in a company (e.g. like finding the cheapest steel supplier) - I don't want to look into the details about the suppliers, that's just filling in boxes and adding up the outcomes. Purely logistical. Barely strategic. The one thing I like about chess is that when both players can see someone is going to win, they say "why even bother!" and start a new game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClownsandEntropy View Post
    Don't want to get off tangent too much, but I think it's not so much the fact that it is solved as much as the fact that it can be solved so computationally. Like Catan has some pretty reliable strategies (probably), but you still don't know if it will work because of chance and the people, and you need to see where the board takes you. To me it seems like a dull stint in fully exhaustive optimisation. I compare it to procurement in a company (e.g. like finding the cheapest steel supplier) - I don't want to look into the details about the suppliers, that's just filling in boxes and adding up the outcomes. Purely logistical. Barely strategic. The one thing I like about chess is that when both players can see someone is going to win, they say "why even bother!" and start a new game.
    all games have an objective and rules soThey're essentially all optimization problems. Chess is not fundamentally more computational than any other game, it just seems that way because it is very simplistic: I move you move and so it almost forces you to approach it from s logical view. But all games Start with rules and objectives and it's just that chess has been around long enough for an extremely thorough investigation of the best strategies to work and a very well developed metagame. The reason why you think Catan is different is because you are playing against people who are "wildcards" aka people who will make suboptimal plays and thus keep the metagame unsettled, but as knowledge increases and everyone learns the optimal strategy which will occur through enough time it would be very similar to chess. And sure you can have random elements like how the board is arranged die roll etc but those are just more variables and more variance, not making it any less computational, it just has the illusion that it's not because you won't get punished as badly for playing illogically

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    No
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

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    Such a boring, antique game. Competitive and rote repetitive too and both are BIG minuses imo.

    ...why'd anyone do such a thing?

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    I used to be obsessed with chess, would spend a lot of time playing against the computer and analyzing various strategies while in high school. I very rarely lost against human opponents because the computer was better than most of them, and I could often beat the computer on difficult settings. I do think chess is a very Si/Ne type of game, you have to visualize it as an evolving puzzle. I think the mistake most players make is that they see it as just a move-by-move type of game and fail to visualize all of the pieces acting together over time and thus failing to see all of the pieces working together as a whole entity in a sense.

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    I can do math. I can think in vague patterns with very little details. I think I construct lots of xy-graphs sort of information and correlative data in my mind how something behaves when I evaluate different things. I can't do chess. I have no idea how to take in pieces. You got to have some actual Si to back it up and it involves very good concrete memory . Can you play chess without razor sharp memory data bank? It will be extremely hard.
    I have been in an official cognitive test where I just couldn't repeat the hand movements that touched set of pillars. It flew way over my head. (I have actually lived my life as shortsighted person for a long time without realizing that I needed glasses, badly. I have seen everything as "little" fuzzy.)

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    People who play chess will have an inclination for either strategy or tactics so it probably correlates with that dichotomy lol.

    What i mean by that is players will either have a game plan where they are focused on controlling fundamental elements of the game such as, ie how much space do i control, how do i expand my position, is my pawn structure stable etc OR they will heavily focus on certain tacts. i need to find a fork, i need to pin this. how can i bait him into getting his piece here, if i do this he will do that. When I played I was always tactical. I think it's the inclination of people who focus on details and hae a more narrow focus
    Last edited by ryoka14; 10-28-2015 at 01:27 AM.

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    NT fun mostly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    NT fun mostly
    Great! Now I'm NT

    Any type can Lear to play chess. It's not rocket science. I know I've take classes that resemble rocket science. They are hard.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    No. Type has nothing to do with the ability to play it.

    HOWEVER! Everyone plays it for a different reason(F egos can even get into it if they are lacking a human contact). With that said, I think it'd correlate the most with Delta STs > Gamma NTs > Beta STs > Alpha NTs.

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    Searched and found this thread about focus
    http://www.chess.com/forum/view/gene...u-stay-focused
    You need to develop a killer instinct. When you are ahead, you should be energized to follow through and destroy the opponent to rack up the win.
    Thanks, but I prefer processed foods over cannibalism. But never say never. Maybe I can develop taste for non processed chess player's flesh. It is a stretch but YOLO.

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    I've been playing Chess quite a lot the last months. It's an aquired taste, before this year I disliked it because I thought it was boring. Now that I've gained some insight into it, I like the "simplicity" of it; I've always hated the overly complex board games where you have tens of stats, 5 missions, HP, EP, to collect equipment, do quests and all that and take like hours to play. That's like creating oneself problems to understand and solve when I already have the real life ones. No fun.

    Chess feels like an 'art' in comparison. You know the outcome is binary and that each decision you and your opponent make will take you one step closer to it. It's like this game jenga where you have a block tower and each turn someone has to take one block away, and the one who makes the whole tower tumble looses. I like how everything beyond the 8*8 board falls out of focus for 30 minutes. I don't do probabilities or strategies, only tactics. The whole game starts ordered; move-by-move the players create a 'knot' that will unravel if you place the 'right' pieces at the right spots. Solving the puzzle, finding the key. Sometimes I admire the dexterity of a move that changes everything, other times I'm stunned by a miscalculation or exhilarated by a win by one turn or one second. I'm playing out of a sense of esthetics.

    Playing strategy games compared to taking real life decisions is like fencing compared to war. In a chess game, I feel like a 'master' who is able to judge risk and consequences, while in real life I feel most often like a pawn. Not because I'm passive, but mostly because I feel like having no clue of the 'rules' or implications of my choices. There is a beauty in Chess which is difficult to replicate in real life because tracking back decisive moments is way more difficult. The world is messy

  36. #36
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    have been spending some time typing famous chess players:

    Magnus Carlsen: LSI
    Hikaru Nakamura, Alexandra Botez, Garry Kasparov: LIE
    Bobby Fischer, Viswanathan Anand, Fabiano Caruana: ILI
    Alexander Grischuk: ILE
    Maxime Vachier-Lagrave: LII
    Jan Nepomnjaschtschi: (maybe IEE but no guarantee)
    Eric Hansen: ESI
    Aman Hambleton: EIE
    Eric Rosen: EII
    Maurice Ashley: extroverted


    a lot of chess players seem to be normalising subtypes, but it's hard to say which function exactly helps for the game.
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by dead account View Post
    have been spending some time typing famous chess players:

    Magnus Carlsen: LSI
    Hikaru Nakamura, Alexandra Botez, Garry Kasparov: LIE
    Bobby Fischer, Viswanathan Anand, Fabiano Caruana: ILI
    Alexander Grischuk: ILE
    Maxime Vachier-Lagrave: LII
    Jan Nepomnjaschtschi: (maybe IEE but no guarantee)
    Eric Hansen: ESI
    Aman Hambleton: EIE
    Eric Rosen: EII
    Maurice Ashley: extroverted


    a lot of chess players seem to be normalising subtypes, but it's hard to say which function exactly helps for the game.
    I had assigned Magnus LSE and Hikaru ILI in the back of my mind. Seems like we disagree about the extra/intro part.

    I think at this high of a level of play, you can tell a lot about a person by how they make their decisions. I would just hesitate to do that with an unskilled or moderately skilled player because their decision-making is not really fully formed, although with some time you might be able to see it in how they learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    I had assigned Magnus LSE and Hikaru ILI in the back of my mind. Seems like we disagree about the extra/intro part.
    the reason why I think Nakamura is an LIE: I watched a couple of his livestreams and he is always rather focused, interacts a lot with his viewers and answers questions while playing the game. he talks a lot, too. a couple of months ago, he had the business idea to teach famous youtubers chess. it lead to a lot of criticism, some players were disappointed that he gave unskilled people so much attention. I think even now he still teaches some of them. this indicated to me that he's a democratic type, and also an entrepreneur. he analyses very fast, and seems to deal really well under time pressure, which is a characteristic of extroverts. they think faster than introverts. if you watch a carlsen stream, you will notice that he speaks rather slow, is not so involved in communication and frequently gets lost in thoughts.

    I remember that Grischuk said in an interview that a lot of grandmasters have autistic tendencies, and I also suspect that asperger/autism is prevalent among GM's. regarding the functions, I would say that a strong development of Te/Ti gives you an advantage.
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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    Quote Originally Posted by dead account View Post
    the reason why I think Nakamura is an LIE: I watched a couple of his livestreams and he is always rather focused, interacts a lot with his viewers and answers questions while playing the game. he talks a lot, too. a couple of months ago, he had the business idea to teach famous youtubers chess. it lead to a lot of criticism, some players were disappointed that he gave unskilled people so much attention. I think even now he still teaches some of them. this indicated to me that he's a democratic type, and also an entrepreneur. he analyses very fast, and seems to deal really well under time pressure, which is a characteristic of extroverts. they think faster than introverts. if you watch a carlsen stream, you will notice that he speaks rather slow, is not so involved in communication and frequently gets lost in thoughts.

    I remember that Grischuk said in an interview that a lot of grandmasters have autistic tendencies, and I also suspect that asperger/autism is prevalent among GM's. regarding the functions, I would say that a strong development of Te/Ti gives you an advantage.
    I kinda went along with that wave of chess streaming popularity earlier this year and I can definitely see where your points are coming from with Magnus. Hikaru I'm still not so sure of. You mention time pressure, but Magnus is almost as highly rated at blitz as Hikaru.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    You mention time pressure, but Magnus is almost as highly rated at blitz as Hikaru.
    I knew you would mention that. I don't really have a clear answer here. I think that Carlsen is a creative subtype in Gulenko's DCNH system and might just be better at making quick decisions in ambiguous positions, because he has Ne as accentuated function. chess players are not really known for sharing a lot of private information, so I can't really provide you with more evidence. my typing is mostly based on intuition. for a long time I thought that Carlsen had the same type as me.
    my ideas about socionics:

    https://soziotypen.de/thoughts-on-socionics/

    the section will be updated ever other month or so.

    this is a VI thread with IEI examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(IEI-edition)

    and this is a thread with EIE examples

    https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...s-EIE-examples

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