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    Default Philosphical question:

    I have a book. And I offer to you to read it. Ofcourse you are curious what it says.

    The book contains only one page and it reads:

    "Who ever reads this, has to kill another person who has read this page, but who has refused to kill a person. There are plenty of them around since a lot of people have been reading this text and some have killed after that, but plenty have refused. Ofcourse when you've killed the person, you are free again to do what you want and will not be on the hitlist of some next person who reads this text. But if you refuse to kill, others are allowed to kill you."

    Are you going to kill as ordered, or will you refuse?

    You are ofcourse allowed to explain your answer. For example how did you feel after reading the book.
    Last edited by Jarno; 04-28-2011 at 11:20 PM.

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    just dont kill the person, and if someone tries to kill you.. kill them.
    Pretty simple

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    No, because I don't live in Africa or believe in the Ninja Jesus.

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    I'd kill you then burn the book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bionicgoat View Post
    I'd kill you then burn the book.
    haha.

    that's oke, because I didn't kill anyone, so you acted as the book ordered you.

    Unfortunately there are a couple of copies of this book around, so you didn't solve that problem if that was your intention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    haha.

    that's oke, because I didn't kill anyone, so you acted as the book ordered you.

    Unfortunately there are a couple of copies of this book around, so you didn't solve that problem if that was your intention.
    but i solved the problem of the book, or you, knowing that I didn't kill the last person who refused.

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    I'd definitely refuse it. It would be murder if I kill someone, no matter if a book told me to do it or if might get into danger myself. If some other person killed me because of this reason, I can't do anything about it. If I managed to fight back and kill them, it would be over, but I wouldn't attack. (like crazedrat said)
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I'd definitely refuse it. It would be murder if I kill someone, no matter if a book told me to do it or if might get into danger myself. If some other person killed me because of this reason, I can't do anything about it. If I managed to fight back and kill them, it would be over, but I wouldn't attack. (like crazedrat said)
    This is very convenient, sure, but think of the tactical advantage you have when you are the hunter. Everyone is an unsuspecting victim, except in the moments where they think they are being attacked. Someone who doesn't kill another does one of two things: 1, spend their life waiting and being the prey and living in fear, which is shitty and horrible, or 2, goes about their daily life like nothing ever happened, making them an open target. You can't do 2, obviously, unless you are spineless and dont care if you die. And doing 1 is the same thing as being a hunter, only you get to shake your own hand as a consolation prize for having shittier odds. So as a hunter, you either look for 2s, or cleverly hunt/use psychological games to wear down a 1. The statistical advantage to being a predator is huge, purely by virtue of being able to choose the time and place of the encounter, and everyone else is either submitting to death or living in hypocritical fear. So long story short is, if you want to live, and don't want to be a hypocrite and live in fear, you hunt.

    Think how much better it is than being a 1: you might live your whole life as a 1, wasting it in painful, psychotic fear, when all you had to do was initiate what you are clearly not opposed to doing anyways.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Think how much better it is than being a 1: you might live your whole life as a 1, wasting it in painful, psychotic fear, when all you had to do was initiate what you are clearly not opposed to doing anyways.
    This is interesting and yes, I think you're right. Your life would be ruined in both cases if they are out to get you. However, you have the advantage of being one of the crowd of potential victims. So not everyone is going to aim at your head.

    But one thing, though: I do think you don't necessarily have to be spineless for living a life as a 2, a person who goes on like nothing happened. It would take courage and a stoic attitude to choose this way. And besides, even if you're an easy target, this would keep your moral integrity (you can't stop them, but you are not going to become one of them). This won't help you once you're in the middle of a bomb attack, but you cannot have everything. But it's not the worst thing to do, imho.
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    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by poli View Post
    No, because I don't live in Africa or believe in the Ninja Jesus.
    I can assure you that this situation has happened in some form in real life.

    You don't have to believe in Ninja Jesus for that.

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    I will give the answer and intention of my question, tomorrow evening.

    I hope more people will participate in the meanwhile.

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    i'd probably just re-use the book in some sort of collage or something. bam. no one after me in the murder train. or i'd get paranoid and destroy it in case some creeper who saw the collage decided to kill me

    ooh, burning it as performance art.
    Last edited by Lotus; 04-28-2011 at 10:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    just dont kill the person, and if someone tries to kill you.. kill them.
    Pretty simple
    And if the killer uses a sharpshooting rifle. You won't see it coming.

    If this is your final choice, wear body armor all day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    And if the killer uses a sharpshooting rifle. You won't see it coming.

    If this is your final choice, wear body armor all day.
    If they want to put that amount of effort into killing me they can. But I don't believe they will, since no one really has that level of motivation. They'd probably do it half ass, like everything else. So I am fine walking around and not giving a fuck about this stupid game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    If they want to put that amount of effort into killing me they can. But I don't believe they will, since no one really has that level of motivation.
    Maybe I'm repeating myself, but some people get even motivated enough to crash a plane in a building, without getting anything in return. Yeah 77 ficticious virgins :-d

    How motivated will someone be if he can escape a death sentence.

    Though I like your bravery. It's probably the right attitude to respond to this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    I have a book. And I offer to you to read it. Ofcourse you are curious what it says.

    The book contains only one page and it reads:

    "Who ever reads this, has to kill another person who has read this page, but who has refused to kill a person. There are plenty of them around since a lot of people have been reading this text and some have killed after that, but plenty have refused. Ofcourse when you've killed the person, you are free again to do what you want and will not be on the hitlist of some next person who reads this text. But if you refuse to kill, others are allowed to kill you."

    Are you going to kill as ordered, or will you refuse?

    You are ofcourse allowed to explain your answer. For example how did you feel after reading the book.
    How can I trust you?
    How can I be sure the book carries only truth?
    How can I be sure I am not targeting innocent people?
    How can I be sure once I kill, I'll be free?

    A first reader is illogical, meaning you and the book already can't be trusted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    How can I trust you?
    How can I be sure the book carries only truth?
    It matters not at all whether you trust the author or how much truth the book carries. What matters is whether its other readers fall under the impression that they must kill you to escape being killed.

    Mind you, the author didn't say you must kill others who have read the book, but merely that others who have read the book are free to kill you (which was true anyhow), lest they be killed themselves. The only factual assertion he has been made that would require a leap of faith (or trust) on the part of the reader is that killing an individual who has read the book precludes you from being killed by another reader. Since your and others' reading the book created no new first principals on which anybody could justify murdering anybody else, you'd have no reason to murder one of the readers unless you believed he or another of the readers had already been out to kill you prior to his or your reading of the book (and that is assuming you trust the authors assertion that killing one of the readers will prevent any of the readers from killing you).

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    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
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    Heh, smells like religion to me. Or that short movie about pressing a button where you kill a person in some remote location. Either way I wouldn't care there are so many things you could die from that a few additional crazies aren't gonna make a difference. I would do just as I do with most chain letters, send it to spam and mock the person who sent me. Maybe someone WILL kill me but I don't see as a very likely scenario.
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Longer a Dating Site View Post
    Heh, smells like religion to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
    It matters not at all whether you trust the author or how much truth the book carries. What matters is whether its other readers fall under the impression that they must kill you to escape being killed.

    Mind you, the author didn't say you must kill others who have read the book, but merely that others who have read the book are free to kill you (which was true anyhow), lest they be killed themselves. The only factual assertion he has been made that would require a leap of faith (or trust) on the part of the reader is that killing an individual who has read the book precludes you from being killed by another reader. Since your and others' reading the book created no new first principals on which anybody could justify murdering anybody else, you'd have no reason to murder one of the readers unless you believed he or another of the readers had already been out to kill you prior to his or your reading of the book (and that is assuming you trust the authors assertion that killing one of the readers will prevent any of the readers from killing you).
    But you miss the point that if the first sentence can't be trusted, everything else written on the page is suspicious by default. That means you have to seriously consider both possibilities equally(that you have to kill or be killed - or that you're being fooled somehow) and skeptically.

    Other readers falling for the book, whether it's truthful or not, falls under the book being suspicious when you read it, because you don't know if there actually are people other than you. So your point is valid but it's automatically included in the point I made. Either you believe or disbelieve, but choosing would be foolish. The best approach is to just acknowledge the possibility and protect yourself[lest you risk your own death and attempt to kill (potentially innocent) people].

    Even worse, there may be a higher dimension of plotting going on that you can't see because you're focused on the book.
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    Wait... what does the first person who reads the book supposed to do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uniden View Post
    Wait... what does the first person who reads the book supposed to do?
    He has to kill a refuser too. There will become plenty around after a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uniden View Post
    Wait... what does the first person who reads the book supposed to do?
    Suicide!
    Or simply give it for someone to read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Are you going to kill as ordered, or will you refuse?
    Refuse, I'm not taking any orders.

    how did you feel after reading the book.
    Pretty crappy book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    For example how did you feel after reading the book.
    Curious about what I might have for lunch.

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    Is there a cliff notes version of this book? I've got a few I'm trying to get through now, and I don't have the time to take on another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    Is there a cliff notes version of this book? I've got a few I'm trying to get through now, and I don't have the time to take on another.

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    *** The Answer ***

    I wanted to see what this question did to people who read it. This question is real though. I've read a book lately which has this central theme, if you are not with us you are against us. You have to kill people and if you don't you will become one of the targets. This book is the Quran. The muslim wholy book. It's literally filled with phrases like the question I posed.

    Some of you thought it posed no threat and even said they would burn the book. Well if you grow up in a muslim country and you would burn the book and told everyone you had just saved them, you would know the seriousness . I liked the respons, of this isn't some new age cult is it. Well it's a cult with a billion followers. I think there are a lot of muslims who want to reject the book, but are too afraid for it. And they should, if you see how many foolish people/terrorists there are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    *** The Answer ***

    I wanted to see what this question did to people who read it. This question is real though. I've read a book lately which has this central theme, if you are not with us you are against us. You have to kill people and if you don't you will become one of the targets. This book is the Quran. The muslim wholy book. It's literally filled with phrases like the question I posed.

    Some of you thought it posed no threat and even said they would burn the book. Well if you grow up in a muslim country and you would burn the book and told everyone you had just saved them, you would know the seriousness . I liked the respons, of this isn't some new age cult is it. Well it's a cult with a billion followers. I think there are a lot of muslims who want to reject the book, but are too afraid for it. And they should, if you see how many foolish people/terrorists there are.
    Ha that reminds me of this video:
    You probably already know all of this info. though considering you have already read the book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    *** The Answer ***

    I wanted to see what this question did to people who read it. This question is real though. I've read a book lately which has this central theme, if you are not with us you are against us. You have to kill people and if you don't you will become one of the targets. This book is the Quran. The muslim wholy book. It's literally filled with phrases like the question I posed.
    I guessed right. (see chatbox archives from the day you made the thread for proof.)
    Last edited by bg; 04-30-2011 at 10:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    *** The Answer ***

    I wanted to see what this question did to people who read it. This question is real though. I've read a book lately which has this central theme, if you are not with us you are against us. You have to kill people and if you don't you will become one of the targets. This book is the Quran. The muslim wholy book. It's literally filled with phrases like the question I posed.

    Some of you thought it posed no threat and even said they would burn the book. Well if you grow up in a muslim country and you would burn the book and told everyone you had just saved them, you would know the seriousness . I liked the respons, of this isn't some new age cult is it. Well it's a cult with a billion followers. I think there are a lot of muslims who want to reject the book, but are too afraid for it. And they should, if you see how many foolish people/terrorists there are.
    holy shit
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0rpsey View Post
    Curious about what I might have for lunch.
    a bullet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    a bullet?
    This spam-o-gram requires one to treat the unlikely as real before even contemplating the commission of murder, and so it bears more on gullibility than morality. As the scenario is preposterous I categorically reject it without fear of consequences.

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    I thought the book was a metaphor for socioneconomics & how that breeds violence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedratsshadow View Post
    I thought the book was a metaphor for socioneconomics & how that breeds violence.
    Learn to interpret a metaphor. Learn to interpret a metaphor. Learn to interpret a metaphor. Learn to interpret a metaphor. Learn to interpret a metaphor.

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    argh. That was lame. It was super fascinating and seemed to hold forth some sort of occult energy... until you reduced it to the Qu'ran. Because that is a totally poor, reductivist reading of the Qu'ran, which fails to recognize its subtleties and possibilities for metaphorical interpretation, and furthermore, the fact that the Qu'ran gives people many more reasons for killing others (eternity in heaven, fulfilling duty to God, etc.) than the simple fact that they can be killed by others if they refuse (which Timmy interestingly and aptly dissected).

    Listen, the Old Testament of the Bible clearly tells us to do a lot of things we're not interested in doing, and that no Jewish person I know does, religious or not. Morality based in the New Testament is a little more popular (that is, the notion of turning the other cheek, being meek, etc., still holds *moral* force; even if it most people decide they don't want to do it, they would not condemn a person for doing so). But overall, I don't think you can reduce the Qu'ran to some sort of evil book, if for no other reason than that the spark of God has not faded out of the heart of man, and so even were the Qu'ran itself evil, its evil is exhaustible, and man (by the grace of God) is not. We have a happy way of dealing with dangerous things so that they do minimal harm to our souls. Whether minimal harm is better or worse than large sinners is unclear, though.

    This does make your responses creepier though. Or maybe slightly more interesting, with their mildly despairing tone.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    reductivist reading of the Qu'ran, which fails to recognize its subtleties

    I expected to see a lot of metaphores in the book. But it's quite litteraly actually.

    Have you read it?

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    I'll kill everyone very slowly by not doing anything and letting nature take its course. I am the greatest serial killer in human history.

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    I'd like to see some of those Qu'ran quotes that inspired this thread, in order to judge it's veracity for myself. As i dont see how the premise follows to the conclusion cohesively.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    You Betas have trust issues. This mentality I find strange, though an useful thing I learned from these people is that if you decide to strike, strike with maximum power - analogous to the alleged "police brutality" of the law enforcements. The problem is that for maximum effect, it requires an emotional mobilization that comes from absolute self-righteousness, which is almost impossible for me to find even hypothetically...
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

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