my second video

[glam]

Well, the Fe-polr was always something that kept me thinking I'm ILI. As others said before, it shouldn't be so hard to find out if you actually like and seek Fe or if you hate it. But it is for me. I'm not a misanthropist so I react positively if someone expresses positive emotions towards me, but I often had situations in which this coercive, group oriented and excessively emotional behaviour annoyed me. This was when the "pathetic HA" of Fi might kick in and make me brush off anyone who wants me to open up or participate in such a situation.

actually all of that sounds a lot like Fe devaluing, especially Fe ignoring. ESEs are loud, expressive and one of the most "excessively emotional" types... one ESE type description says that "people around him usually respect his opinion, but try not to communicate with him for too long, it is not easy to withstand his emotional charge." so if that's something that annoys you, perhaps that type is not actually your dual.


i know you lean Logical > Ethical for yourself, but the more i see the more i think EII is very much worth considering. i think you may share similarities to other intellectually-inclined EII males... on this forum, Subterranean would be an example of this - he thought of himself as LII > EII for a long time, but eventually he decided that EII is a better typing after all.

i say it couldn't hurt to give EII a little more thought. if nothing else it might be a good middle ground to explain the apparent contradiction of why you relate to both LII-Ne and annoyance with too much Fe.

[HERO]

For reference here are some pictures of the types in question (although Visual Identification isn't always helpful or accurate):

INTj (LII):

http://www.socioniko.net/ru/type-foto/li-fil.html

INTp (ILI):

http://www.socioniko.net/ru/type-foto/tp-fil.html

ISTp (SLI):

http://www.socioniko.net/ru/type-foto/sp-fil.html

INFj (EII):

http://www.socioniko.net/ru/type-foto/ri-fil.html

[Krig the Viking]

I'm not a misanthropist so I react positively if someone expresses positive emotions towards me, but I often had situations in which this coercive, group oriented and excessively emotional behaviour annoyed me.

Is it the strong emotion that annoyed you, or the coercion? It might just be Beta Fe that bothers you (which tends to coercively pressure people into feeling the same as "the group"). Alpha Fe is gentler, preferring emotional harmony to forced emotional unity, and tends to be expressed on a more individual scale.

Fi types mostly find Fe as somewhat frivolous and irrelevant -- a useful tool at best, and a bothersome annoyance that gets in the way of efficient Te action at worst.

Put it this way: Fi types see Fe as a tool to build strong Fi relationships among people, but would rather not have to always pay attention to people's emotional moods. Fe types see Fi as a tool to produce consistently positive Fe emotions in people, but would rather not have to always pay attention to whether people like them or not.

Perhaps if Fe valuing/devaluing isn't clear, perhaps Se valuing/devaluing would be?

[yellow82]

Seriously? Thanks.

You're welcome.



And I'm just going to take a leap of faith here and draw a conclusion based on a movie I watched today.

I was watching Lord of the Rings and I kept feeling drawn to Frodo, and then I realized. . . he's not EII, he's an LII-H! So yeah, LII-H's tend to be "softer" then the normal LII and tend to seek balance and look for positive emotional energy from those around them. . . which can make them appear to be IXXp, or EII. So yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Krig, I'm thinking LII-H. Hello dual.


Also, question to ask yourself. Do you find people like Samwise Gamgi amazing? Because that would be your dual if you were another Frodo.

[silke]

you sound like LII to me, several things you've stated so far I correlate with LII attitude and Ti in general

[ArchonAlarion]

SEI or LII, Alpha Introvert.

[Timeless]

You're welcome.



And I'm just going to take a leap of faith here and draw a conclusion based on a movie I watched today.

I was watching Lord of the Rings and I kept feeling drawn to Frodo, and then I realized. . . he's not EII, he's an LII-H! So yeah, LII-H's tend to be "softer" then the normal LII and tend to seek balance and look for positive emotional energy from those around them. . . which can make them appear to be IXXp, or EII. So yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Krig, I'm thinking LII-H. Hello dual.


Also, question to ask yourself. Do you find people like Samwise Gamgi amazing? Because that would be your dual if you were another Frodo.

SEI or LII, Alpha Introvert.

If MegaDoomer is SEI/ISFp, then...



Sup, dual.

[aestrivex]

in my opinion, the messages from this video are most concordant with SLI with Si + Te oriented values, a knack for practical work, and a certain awareness of an aesthetic of artistry that comes through e.g. in the enjoyment of design and building things.

i have not been paying much attention before this video, though.

[plotter]

I'll start by saying that saying that I don't actually know what makes an LII a LII, but you remind me of a friend that tests LII, and not at all of a friend that tests ILI.
I do know from reading some of your posts that I relate to you and your way of thinking a lot.

Also you remind me of Dr. Radek Zelenka from SGA, but that might partially be because of the glasses



I agree with you about your views on artists. I'm not sure about the english word, but at least the swedish word "Konstnär" by definition means someone that is skilled in a particular field of expression. As a lot of words however they tend to lose their inherent meaning, but I will have no part of it.

[Krig the Viking]

Also you remind me of Dr. Radek Zelenka from SGA, but that might partially be because of the glasses

I miss that show.

[golden]

Just some random comments, I suppose.

You appear to be Si-valuing (the way you narrate events in terms of their worldly details--lots of details! "And then this happened, and then that happened ... and then I ... and then they ...").

Your eye movements remind me a bit of some Alpha NTs I have observed.

I don't see why you wouldn't be LII, and I'm not sure I agree that your temperament could be construed as IP>IJ. I actually think you seem to have a strand of tension at the core of you in this video, but that tension does not work its way entirely out into the body, so you could come across as soft and inoffensive on the surface while still having a "rational," straight-line-ish energy as your basis.

Of the two probable LIIs I know very well, one is my stepfather, the other an ex-boyfriend. The stepfather is very intense sometimes and has a hard time getting along with people. The ex is really polite and softspoken and gets along with everyone! (You seem a lot more like the latter.) Both of those men are pretty inflexible and idiosyncratic in their ideas. When you discuss your personal opinions on the meaning of the word "Kunstler," you remind me of them both.

I suppose other types can do that sort of thing--take a dogmatic stance about something like the use of a word--but I do know that with those two LIIs, I have sometimes found myself thinking, when they set forth their strict personal guidelines about various things like words and their interpretations, "So what am I supposed to do with this? Is X word off-limits now?" And that was the thought process your statements gave rise to in me.

(But rather than get miffed, I laugh about it and might directly ask the person that question in a humorous way. With my ex, for example, I would laugh, maybe, and warn him that I still have to use the word "artist," sorry. Or if I were really at ease, I might try saying "Kunstler"/"artist" a lot, but I'd use little verbal and physical quirks and twitches for air-quote-irony effect, just to see the reaction. If it actually made the person mad, I'd try something else, of course. I make a good pest.)

BTW, my son is apparently ILE and I started explaining to him that city planning is a career field when he was about 5 (he turned 8 yesterday), because he is fascinated by roads and buildings, how those things flow together; it seems like the kind of work where you have to be both technical and creative.

/random thoughts except I think you're LII. Of course it's just my personal observations and whatnot, and comparing you to other people and trying to form a gestalt impression of you in my mind.

[Pa3s]

actually all of that sounds a lot like Fe devaluing, especially Fe ignoring. ESEs are loud, expressive and one of the most "excessively emotional" types... one ESE type description says that "people around him usually respect his opinion, but try not to communicate with him for too long, it is not easy to withstand his emotional charge." so if that's something that annoys you, perhaps that type is not actually your dual.

Yeah, I've tought about exactly this before. It would be way better if I knew a lot ESEs irl, but I'm not so sure about that.

i say it couldn't hurt to give EII a little more thought. if nothing else it might be a good middle ground to explain the apparent contradiction of why you relate to both LII-Ne and annoyance with too much Fe.

Makes sense. Well, Se or Fe porl is a reoccuring thing for me.

Is it the strong emotion that annoyed you, or the coercion?

Hmm, mostly the coercion (as it would be for almost every introvert) but still, I'm not adept at expressing my emotions or keen on talking about them. My INFp (how I type him) brother sometimes talks about his gf. I listen, but it's always pretty awkward to talk about such things.

Put it this way: Fi types see Fe as a tool to build strong Fi relationships among people, but would rather not have to always pay attention to people's emotional moods. Fe types see Fi as a tool to produce consistently positive Fe emotions in people, but would rather not have to always pay attention to whether people like them or not.

As far as I'm concerned, I think I don't include personal sympathies too much when I deal with other people. If someone really let me down or did somethign awful to me, I probably don't want to interact with them anymore, but other than that, I don't bear grudges against people

Perhaps if Fe valuing/devaluing isn't clear, perhaps Se valuing/devaluing would be?

Yeah, I'd say Si>Se because of my generally non-confrontational demeanour.

Also, question to ask yourself. Do you find people like Samwise Gamgi amazing? Because that would be your dual if you were another Frodo.

Well, I think he'd be pretty cool as a loyal and dependable friend, but could he be my dual? In the movie itself (which I saw several times) I was more interested in other characters (Faramir, Theoden and others were pretty cool) and the fighting scenes.

Sup, dual.

Haha, but Fe-creative?

in my opinion, the messages from this video are most concordant with SLI with Si + Te oriented values, a knack for practical work, and a certain awareness of an aesthetic of artistry that comes through e.g. in the enjoyment of design and building things.

Thanks for your guess.

I'll start by saying that saying that I don't actually know what makes an LII a LII, but you remind me of a friend that tests LII, and not at all of a friend that tests ILI.
I do know from reading some of your posts that I relate to you and your way of thinking a lot.

Thanks to you, too.

Also you remind me of Dr. Radek Zelenka from SGA, but that might partially be because of the glasses

Too bad I never watched the show.

-----
@Golden:
Thank you for your observations, they were really interesting!

BTW, my son is apparently ILE and I started explaining to him that city planning is a career field when he was about 5 (he turned 8 yesterday), because he is fascinated by roads and buildings, how those things flow together; it seems like the kind of work where you have to be both technical and creative.

This is true, even though the technical part is a bit subdued (at least where I'm studying). One important thing though. It contains a part I didn't know it was so important: the presentation of your work and the ability to translate your work into bits of information which are easy to understand laymen. This is not very hard for me though.

[golden]

This is true, even though the technical part is a bit subdued (at least where I'm studying). One important thing though. It contains a part I didn't know it was so important: the presentation of your work and the ability to translate your work into bits of information which are easy to understand laymen. This is not very hard for me though.

Well, I knew a city planner in Texas whose work was fairly technical; does it just depend?

Interesting what you say about the communication/presentation aspect of the field, though not really shocking--I guess that's true in much project-based work.

The LII ex I mentioned works in neuroscience and really enjoys the teamwork and teaching aspects of his career much more than he expected.

[Pa3s]

Well, I knew a city planner in Texas whose work was fairly technical; does it just depend?

Maybe, it probably depends on what you are coming from. For instance, There are construction engineers who also learn aspects of traffic planning. They don't have the same job like a city planner, but it could be quite different in the states, though.

The LII ex I mentioned works in neuroscience and really enjoys the teamwork and teaching aspects of his career much more than he expected.

Even though I can teach other people things, I think I don't want to become a professor, even if I was good enough. I'd like a calm, peaceful job in a smaller town.

[cracka]

You kinda look like Heath to me. I can also use this video to practice understanding German...thanks for that...lol.

[Pa3s]

You kinda look like Heath to me. I can also use this video to practice understanding German...thanks for that...lol.

I heard this before. You can try to understand the things I say, but, in case you were serious, please note that I didn't translate every word. However, the tenor is correct.

[Nowisthetime]

That's what I've thought before, but I'd not rule out being sensing. Like Ashton said before, I think the gap between N/S is overrrated.

I think this is an interesting comment, considering that both you and Ashton have Sensing as hidden agenda. I am Ti HA and I can at times be quite ambitious and critical in logical matters, bringing it into conversation etc. But I don't think the gap is overrated. Having it as ego is a very different thing.

[Pa3s]

^ If I'm LII, this is true. But seriously, I think people are generally much more likely to be unsure whether they're F or T instead of N or S. It's like the latter one was much more definite to determine. I didn't want to say that it doesn't change anything if you prefer S or N, but that this dichtomy is formally exactly like the other ones.

[Jinxi]

Have you considered IEI?

[ashlesha]

Why not SLI?

i'm curious to hear this too.

[Pa3s]

Have you considered IEI?

No, not really. I know at least two people of whom I'm pretty sure they're IEI (my brother and a friend). I get along pretty well with both of them, but they're different from me in several aspects, we have a different view on the things.

Why not SLI?

If you're asking me: I'm seriously considering it.
If you're asking the others: Most people probably think N fits better. And I can understand where this is coming from. It makes me wonder myself.

-----
If you expect a definite self-typing now, I'm sorry. But don't worry, everything what was said will enter the calculations.

[FDG]

MM, yeah, SLI would solve some potential issues i.e. IP temperament + valuing, thus avoiding a potentially wrong ILI typing.

[krieger]

you look a bit like Larry Page:







Rick's typing of him as INTp is one i have no qualms with supporting.

http://www.socionics.us/celebrities/ili.shtml

[Pa3s]

you look a bit like Larry Page

Hmm, maybe a bit yeah.

Fwiw, I've made some photomashes to compare:

*gone*

pic A: me (2 photos), C. Eastwood, Neil Patrick Harris, Ben Affleck --> ISTp

pic B: me (2 photos), Simon Cowell, Viggo Mortensen, Vincent Gallo --> INTj

Both are a little weird.

[Nico1e]

SEI. I'll explain more later.

SEIs are having difficulty being recognized and I want to find out why.

(disclaimer: there's a chance that sometime in the future I will change my mind about this, so be patient and wait until I've written the explanation in detail.)

[Pa3s]

SEI.

I see a pattern in your typings.

[Absurd]

SEI. I'll explain more later.

SEIs are having difficulty being recognized and I want to find out why.

(disclaimer: there's a chance that sometime in the future I will change my mind about this, so be patient and wait until I've written the explanation in detail.)

I can't wait to see that.

[Pa3s]

I found your video rly interesting--fwiw!!

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.

[Nico1e]

Something about MD seems too "receptive" for him to be INTj.

Like his energy isn't as stifled as is common in IJs, it's a lot more relaxed like I'd imagine out of an ISXp.

Plus I'd like to think my positive interactions with him would render INTj a very unlikely option.

hahahahahahahhahahah

[Nico1e]

Okay Megadoomer, question for you before I actually post my analysis. I want to ask your permission and see if this is okay. I am doing a thorough, microscopic observation of the video. I am going to be doing more typing work in the future, and I like to do this in a very detailed way, and I take it very seriously. But when you see what I'm writing, you will notice that it analyzes you very closely in a way that could make you feel vulnerable - I talk about, for instance, the nuances of emotion that you express in your face and body while talking. That is just my way of analyzing things, but it's possible that if I go into that much detail, it will make you feel uncomfortable. Is this all right with you? I will be focusing on just a few parts of the video where I noticed things that I felt were important. I will have it ready by tomorrow.

[Pa3s]

Well, if you think it might make me feel awkward, you could write it in a pm first and and I tell you if you can post it, but the answer will probably be yes anyway. This sounds like a lot of work, take it easy. (I have shown the video to a german socionist before, and he did a similar thorough analysis.)

[717495]

Nico1e please, behave yourself.

Hey nice VI morphs I personally think comparison from the gallery back and forth is a (somewhat) better way than using the morphs, because you really need a variety of images to reference, so my judgment on these morphs is not refined. I'm curious, did you use photos that were on the gallery or other photos?

[Pa3s]

I'm curious, did you use photos that were on the gallery or other photos?

Thanks. The resolution of most of the photos in the gallery was too low, so I searched for other ones. But I picked my choices of type examples according to the Socionix gallery.

[717495]

Hmm When you click on them, they blow up and get to normal size. Before you do that, you can right click, save link or copy link location. I don't know if it works on other computers than my own.

Anyways, cool.

[Reuben]

MD, the prevailing opinion says that you are LII, and I also concur.

I know an identical who VIs very much like you, has the same body language, in fact, when I ignore the german and the slight difference in voice timbre, the complete rhythm of the way you talk reminds me exactly of him. From the way you end off almost each phrase with a syllable that rises up to the many varied pauses that actually allows me to *imagine* you thinking without looking at the video (and when I DO look at it, your thinking expressions look exactly like my LII friend when he pauses before talking).

I am very certain you are LII H-C or C-H. Welcome to alpha, my man

[Pa3s]

I am very certain you are LII H-C or C-H. Welcome to alpha, my man

Alright, opinion noted.

[Nico1e]

Well, if you think it might make me feel awkward, you could write it in a pm first and and I tell you if you can post it, but the answer will probably be yes anyway. This sounds like a lot of work, take it easy. (I have shown the video to a german socionist before, and he did a similar thorough analysis.)

I might send it to you first. I just didn't want to make you self-conscious for the rest of your life, so that you would be saying, 'Oh no, I lifted my eyebrows that way again, is everybody seeing this?'

As for it being a lot of work, actually, it does take time to do, but I go through phases where I want to obsessively analyze things because it is challenging for me. I am going through a major 'detailed analysis' phase right now, which I will probably get tired of in a few weeks, and I'll go back to just glancing at people and doing a quick-sloppy guess instead of a thorough one.

****
Edit: I'll be back to this in a bit. I had to fix a real-world health problem that was putting me into a very agitated mood. It was interfering with my ability to think clearly and causing me to act aggressive in the forum. And now I will have to go to work for a couple of days before I'm off again.

[Nico1e]

One reason why I wanted to be so thorough is because I'm working on the theory that 'SEIs are hard to type' or 'SEIs are undercounted' or something like that. I had a hunch that you might be one and I wanted to see if I could argue persuasively for that.

This here is the purely logical argument. This doesn't include anything from the video yet.

******
You are not an LII.

We recognize our base function most strongly. We are less certain about our creative functions.

You have identified Si/Ne as a pair of elements that you can relate to.
You also suspected some kind of T, but you did not specify whether it was Te or Ti.
I can see that from looking at what you've written by your name.

'Si/Ne' is more specific than 'T.' You actually know exactly which kind of S and N you prefer.

Therefore, Si/Ne is your base function. It is the most strongly recognized, the most visible, the most sure.

If you had been an LII, you would have specified that you relate most strongly with Ti/Fe.

You are an introvert.

Therefore, Si is your base function.

If you really are a T, then you are a SLI.

*******

However, I have a hunch that you are not a SLI. That is where the argument goes beyond that kind of logic, and I will have to argue with some evidence and other hunches.

An SEI is Te-PoLR. They say that a Te-PoLR person is not comfortable getting into logical arguments or trying to prove things. I suspect that this is the reason why some SEIs hesitate to choose what type they are. They don't want to make mistakes and have to argue about it later on.

You also said that you didn't like math and science. Some people are going, 'Yeah, I know lots of LIIs who hate math and science.' I'm a little skeptical about that, but whatever.

I compare this to myself. I loved math and science. They were my favorite classes. If you were a SLI like me, you might possibly have at least a little bit of liking for math and science classes. This is not really proof, it's just sort of a hint.

I've seen some people who I think are LIIs, and someone who actually tested as an INTJ in the MBTI. He speaks with short, monotone, one-word sentences, like 'Yes.' 'No.' The other suspected LII talks like that too. He sounds like a robot. I am actually somewhat fond of him and I feel amused whenever he starts talking. I was at Goodwill buying something and this guy was working behind the counter. He was cleaning off some kind of container. I said, 'Is that glass?' I have this melodic, singsong voice that moves from one pitch to another. He replied, 'No. Plastic.' That was all. Monotone, short sentences, definite and absolute.

I don't see you talking that way at all in the video. Your sentences are longer and wandering, with changes of pitch, and you sometimes leave open-ended, uncertain statements, for instance, you don't know for sure whether or not this job will be right for you, you're hoping it will, but of course it won't be perfect, and you're going to finish studying for this anyway, even though the future is uncertain.

There are some things you said and did in the video that suggest you might possibly have Fe as your creative function, but I will get into that a little bit later.

When I read your writing and when I interact with you, I feel that we have Si in common.

I make tons of mistakes, and this entire thing could be completely wrong. It's my theory for now. I'll finish the rest of it later.

[Suz]

I've seen some people who I think are LIIs, and someone who actually tested as an INTJ in the MBTI. He speaks with short, monotone, one-word sentences, like 'Yes.' 'No.' The other suspected LII talks like that too. He sounds like a robot. I am actually somewhat fond of him and I feel amused whenever he starts talking. I was at Goodwill buying something and this guy was working behind the counter. He was cleaning off some kind of container. I said, 'Is that glass?' I have this melodic, singsong voice that moves from one pitch to another. He replied, 'No. Plastic.' That was all. Monotone, short sentences, definite and absolute.

I actually find this to be the case with Fe-POLRs (not ALWAYS but often), especially when they are in Te mode. Maybe the Goodwill guy was an ILI.

LIIs in my experience can sometimes actually be over the top nauseating with Fe. SEIs less so because they can control it better. So i'm not necessarily disagreeing with your typing of MD.

[Trevor]

LIIs in my experience can sometimes actually be over the top nauseating with Fe. SEIs less so because they can control it better.

I think you need more experience. Because your current one contradicts the theory. It really shouldn't be like that.