Plus/Minus signs and intuition: Ni- vs Ni+
Descriptions of Ni seem to contain two largely unrelated themes: dreamy reflection, insight, and imagination vs. extrapolation, prediction, and development over time. It seems that the former may be closer to Ni-, as it seems more ethics-related and appears to show up more in beta humanists, while the latter may be closer to Ni+, as it seems more logic-related and appears to show up more in gamma researchers.
Ni+ just means Gamma NT.
Ni- just means Beta NF.
No need to seed complication by using the symbols separately, imo.
Good point, I'll try to remember that each +/- element is quadra specific. The above Beta/Gamma distinction works though?
The perceiving function is more of an adjective to the judging function. It's more about how the person fits the in the world, and the world fits around them. All the hard data comes from the judging function; as the judging functions will discern your opinions about the data.Originally Posted by Igxfl
Gamma, Delta
+Ni is typically values the interconnectivity within the world. They are more stable minded, tend to adapt to what is expected of them. They kind of flow with they system. This connects with +Se -Si -Ne.
+Se is typically the function of evolving things; it's usually rather confident(as its values are directly connected to +Ni) because it usually feels like it doesn't have the problems of weighing different opinions,etc. Tends to be somewhat single minded and laboring towards whatever purpose society has assigned.
-Si usually craves homeostasis. Usually concerned with balance and survival.
-Ne kind of sees itself as one of many. Kind of devalues the ego processes in exchange of the group bias.
Alpha, Beta
-Ni tends to value the mental connection to the unknown. Spirituality, mysticism, relativistic. Usually tries hard to be open to change; though this kind of leaves them separated from a natural flow of society as +Ni has. When people on the forum talk about Ne as the function of possibilities; they are usually referring to this. The mind is usually expansive; sometimes too expansive in a lot of situations to maintain any sort of semblance of balance.
-Se usually is rebellious; as it sees itself as the bringer of importance. Can be rather egotistical and narcissistic(this as an agenda function can make the person feel as if they are the center piece of some great plan; though this usually wavers between depression and identity recalibration; as the person kind of feels driven towards something that is unaccomplishable).
+Si usually is the sense of exploration and adventure. They value experimentation; unusual sensations. Can have the propensity towards addictions.
+Ne sees itself as an person trapped on a planet full of ants. The person usually has a sense of uniqueness and separateness from the masses.
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Rational elements now please?
Ni+ values, Se+ values, Ne- values and Si- values all mean the same thing as Serious.
Ni- values, Se- values, Ne+ values and Si+ values all mean the same thing as Merry.
Again the distinction between all these is entirely superfluous.
Lol the dichotomies are just as superfluous. Actually, socionics is built around functions, I'd say that the renin dichotomies are even more useless.
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functions don't exist.
Explain.
the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim.
Yes, but they are both just as important as the other. They are the same thing.
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I don't suppose you could actually answer the question instead of hiding behind this "burden of proof" stuff? If functions do not exist, then what are Socionics and types?
I'm not even asking you to prove it, just to explain why you think they don't exist.
they are a redundant postulate. semi-useful as a mental aide (but confusing to a greater extent to a lot of people), but not anything shown to be of concrete substance.I don't suppose you could actually answer the question instead of hiding behind this "burden of proof" stuff? If functions do not exist, then what are Socionics and types?
I'm not even asking you to prove it, just to explain why you think they don't exist.
socionics types are simply the composite product of dichotomic differences in characteristics. this is the least epistemically problematic interpretation of the phenomenon. even if functions were real, dichotomies would be real as a direct consequence. this can not be said in reverse.
but at the same time theres nothing wrong with understanding something from another level... thats how new knowledge forms.
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Alpha Delta
-Ti is analytical logic. It breaking things down. It is root seeking, and attempts to reveal secretive information about the underlying structure of reality.
+Fi is connected to analytical logic in that, it has a tendency to universalize things. It tries to see everything as equals. Tries to harmonize things on a global level.
+Te tends to have an obsessive compulsive quality to it because of -Ti need to attain a level of purity. Tends to over adjust things, having an inability to accept small inconsistencies. Extremely economical(if linked to +Se/-Si in a material sense).
-Fe has a tendency to have neutral emotions. Sometimes this can manifest as being bitter and volatile; though most of the time this manifests with a person being incapable of adapting boundaries in which govern their lives. With this as a dominant function, the person tends to be motherly in a way, but yet still has an inability to completely connect with people on a personal level.
Beta/Gamma
+Ti typically is boundary based, common sense. Tends to think in terms of practicality and how one can further their ability to progress. Tends to adapt the logic of the dominant social register(survival, money, clothes, food, water, etc).
-Fi is biased emotions. Tends to have specific likes and dislikes. Typically has a rather depressive romantic quality about them, believing that they are looking for some perfect incarnation that will satisfy their needs. Often this will leave them displeased because there is always something that typically does not in the person that conforms to their brick wall of values.
-Te tends to have very fluid, unrestricted actions. Usually has a feeling of logical certainty when undergoing tasks. This is usually due to the persons thinking being based on the dominant social register. Certainty in actions; a confidence in how they respond.
+Fe emotions based on the social register. Biased... either presents themselves as being jovial or being disappointed; having more definitive opinions. Can be rather critical and antagonistic to certain people. Some may be viewed as closed off or closed minded.
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I think this is the perspective of the functions from the spiritualist perspective -- looking for connections and purposes. Generally (most of us) do not consciously think of the functions in this way. I think you've narrowed down the purposes of each function very well.
Bump.
Since I made something accidentally to create a distinction between ILI and IEI, guess I'd just post it here:
Akin to the excessive monotonous melancholy of dramatic, hatred in which ILI does already possess according to their ontological probabilistic in the measure of time in which direction goes backward to be prone at being skeptical. As they see the world as a shade of grey with the black tone overall due to the darkness of own soul for the sake of having a hatred towards humanity, and vividly orientated by the gloomy, dark, and hopeless point of view regarding the world as they did stuck themselves to the "Melancholic of Past". IEI rather shares this melodious harmony thus a voluptuously vivid impression in the color of their imagery according to the fantastical & therefore colourful tones, such as RGB, yet rather in a million colours of shades abstraction according to their Gaussian picture in which consists fractals spectacles of configuration that leads their imagination to be a tad impossibly sort of colourful spectrums in which attitude remains to have a singular density towards seeing this form of perspective. Long story short, it's a chaos theory of what remains to be unorganized yet still impeccable in an artistic sense due to the vividness of imaginary abstraction as they do have an existentialistic view, or in other words, "The Romanticism of Future" as their Ni is more focused towards these bright yet rather pastelised and therefore soft shade of colours to strive their focal point of imagery abstraction.
Verdict:
IEI is the "Romanticism of Future", ILI is "the Melancholic of Past".
Both have the different facet in the regard of their attunement towards the concept of time.
IEI is a strong believer in the freedom of self-expressiveness,
hence ILI is egoistically a person that doesn't prefer that kind of mindset to be applied realistically.
Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."
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