hacking. How many LSI would shine in that field? But heck you better have keen logical eye on detail.
hacking. How many LSI would shine in that field? But heck you better have keen logical eye on detail.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Aircraft Repair Mechanic.
Lol. This woman is so ESI. She starts off living in a cardboard box and perseveres until she finds a place where her talents and contributions are appreciated. Enneagram 6, I think.
I got a kick out of how grounded she is. "Make sure you guys are careful with those, um, heating elements." "Are you guys labeling these parts that you take out?" Freaking perfect.
Incidentally, I've rebuilt engines myself and yes, you need to label every part. Preferably with a #2 pencil on masking tape. Ink tends to dissolve in oil and cleaning fluids. Paint markers can work well, if you are careful with your solvents. Bag and tag everything, take pictures, and keep a complete record of the disassembly.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-10-2020 at 12:41 PM.
Well, I've just graduated in mechanical engineering and have a position lined up in a consulting firm. I only worked there for 4 months last summer, but I seemed to be pretty successful in my work. I'm not so good in the theoretical concerns, but I am detail oriented enough to do good work and drawings. Being reliable and responsible helps a lot.
I went into it, after trying so many other things, because I was good at using computers (for the design aspects) and at math. I got through the program with very high grades, mostly due to my ability to understand /what/ we needed to actually do to solve the required problems. Once again, not the strongest in the theoretical parts some is still confusing to me, but good at picking up the goal and method of solution to solve problems.
My ESI friend ( who was ever to be my crush ), he studies at architecture faculty like me
I'm a bean counter
This is a great question, but I really need to do research IRL and brave going outside and talking to people in person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
Career success is more important to them, because it doesn't come as easily to them as it does to us. They end up deliberating a lot on what study and later on what career they wish to specialize in and doing well in it takes them effort. For us it's the inverse, I believe that we may work far more seriously on our (romantic) relationships, because that doesn't come easily to us.Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Just take my ESI-Se bicycle friend who told me the other day how he is proud of himself for flirting with a girl at a party, but this was the birthday party of his initial love interest! I was like: "Dude, seriously? Are you willing to waste all your effort on the first?" But he said that after two dates with the first he felt like it wasn't going anywhere and he believes the second one doesn't even know the first, because it was three girlfriends celebrating their birthdays together. The second girl told him that she has a boyfriend, which might have been a white lie to reject him politely. He doesn't even care about having been rejected, because he feels too proud of himself for straight up asking her number, but he admitted that it might also have been the alcohol that caused him to not care about the rejection...
We discussed my dating approach in contrast, which is more slow and steady.
Last edited by Armitage; 03-22-2022 at 08:09 PM.
Ive seen ESIs do very well in police and military in addition to the things mentioned earlier. If you are really ambitious, remember that Barack Obama is an ESI-Fi!
Came here to mention rescuer-type professions like firefighting, they also make great cops and detectives.
Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.
-Seneca
CG Artist.
Too sensitive for jobs like firefighting. It'd destroy me to not be able to save everyone, to watch people suffer. Animals, even worse. I worked at a kitten shelter once, I know it can leave you so jaded about humans...particularly when you realize what people are capable of, and how common it is for them to be capable of it...it's enough to make you want to kill some motherfuckers.
I've only met one real ESI (typed using Model G) she was a homemaker that almost never spoke.
Changing to psychologist. Specializing in trauma. CG Artist was ultimately just unfulfilling. I kept looking at psychology with yearning, feeling as though I'd missed out on my true purpose in life. Certain life plans and circumstances made me continue down the path of CG Artist, but I ultimately couldn't make myself do it anymore. Decided to go ahead and pursue psychology regardless of what sacrifices I have to make.
For once in my life...I'm putting myself first. If somewhere down the line that means I have to sacrifice my relationship with my romantic partner, then so be it. This is my life mission, and I will do whatever it takes to fulfill my objective. Turning all those suffering victims who are out there into victorious warriors is far more important than my personal life plans. My life is here and gone, but the impact left behind continues on throughout the generations. This is what I want, and I won't let anything stop me. I'm willing to lose everything to help others gain, if I must.
Field is closely related to ethics. Ethics courses are required for continuation of career.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 04-01-2023 at 09:02 PM.
other seen irl:
- TV host, journalist
- school teacher of chemistry
Be careful. This quest may ruin you.
Also. The attitude (even this, before any actions and consequences) which sets interests of other one above own and not as equal where you follow to a compassion, - that creates inner (initially unconscious) resistance, what will arise neurotic symptoms. What secondary will lead to lesser efficiency in the deal which you consciously suppose as important. Among examples can appear overburning. To forget about own interest also may lead to direct harm to you which will reduce possiblities to help others.
Love supposes equality but not sacraficing of own interests. Following to love you may act against some of own interest and to risk, but because you in a compassion suppose/feel overlapping profit by making that good to other one. The profit which should make your state not worse, at least.
Then. If we take psychological help, the good state of helper is important. When it's good - this helps to influence, to accept help from a good example of adoptation. And the influence itself will be more positive, - as traits of a helper will be copied and that should move to better, but not to repeat what which may lead other human to worse state too. A part of this - would be positive experience of a helper to solve own problems which may be similar to other human.
So, in psychology influence to make other human to feel happier is important to feel good yourself. The attitude on a sacraficing would oppose to this. The optimum for psychology help is to evaluate interests of yourself and other human as equal. This is supposed by love state.
Such a poly Anna view of "helping".
Some people do not want help. A back hole will suck you in and leave you trashed.
Love is not always enough. Thinking it is is just wishful thinking.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying be prepared.
Are you talking about me? Can't tell because I have no idea what Sol is attempting to say, but he's the one who mentioned love.
No sorry that was directed at Sol.
Gotcha. Yeah, surprised someone was able to make it out. Seems unintelligible to me, his English was awful. Are you an English native?
Yeah, I've considered that possibility, but then I realized I'm gritty enough to deal with what comes.
Besides, I basically already do it anyway. I just don't get paid to.
I am Canadian. But I have read many russian translated articles and I think Sol's english has improved a lot over the years.
Well, you believe, right?
< 3
Yeah, I'm sure it has. It wasn't intended to be an insult, so I should've said that more tactfully.
I was asking if you speak a foreign language because I have noticed that my foreign friends whose native tongue is not English can make out broken English more easily than I am able to. I seem to have a difficult time with it. I've always naturally had strong English/writing skills, it came to me very intuitively, so I wonder if that is why I struggle to understand English when it's not written properly. (In other words, because proper English is all I've ever known, so I'm not used to having to make out broken English.) My boyfriend even had to improve his English skills, because we used to get into fights from misunderstandings that arose whenever he misused words or something, lol.
I'm not understanding what you're referring to. It's not specific enough for me to make sense of it. I don't do well with vague nudges/hints, sorry. I grew up in a family that always used very precise and specific language. They liked to be perfectly clear and leave no room for questions or misunderstandings.
All good I didn't think you thought any different when you said it. not sure if I understand the guy all the time, but I guess I read and just put it together.
you are gritty enough because you believe things will work out or believe in something about what you are doing that makes all the turmoil worthwhile? don't know I was riffing. "to believe", because the original OP felt like working very hard at a relationship, or friend, when things seem extremely difficult, takes some kind of belief ? At least it does for me.
I'm gritty because it's who and how I am. It's just part of my core personality. In my case, my grit can change course adaptively. Your perception of the direction my grit is going is basically accurate, it's just that it's also not limited to that direction only. It can change direction if it's necessary. I know how to root/anchor myself in different motives that match my pursuits/endeavors. I possess a great deal of control over my psyche/internal processes, in that aspect. As long as I can see some sense of purpose or meaning behind what I'm doing, my passion for the field will have stability.
That said, I do expect some obstacles and challenges to come with it. I expect that I will struggle when people aren't receptive, or when I'm having to help people I believe don't "deserve" it because of poor character. I expect that I'll be forced to confront my own judgments about who is deserving VS who isn't, and modify my perspectives so that I'm capable of providing services to people I don't like. I expect that I will be confronted by my own impatience for those who are slow to learn. I expect that I will discover that some of the people I'm treating are not the victims they claim to be, but rather, are the perpetrators and are actually blame shifting; I expect that by the time I realize that, I'll also realize the advice I gave was only serving to enable said manipulative/gaslighting behavior from them. I expect to have to learn how to cope with setting my personal life aside to focus on helping others despite feeling emotionally overwhelmed by situations going on in my own life. I consider it possible that my own worldview could be threatened by the experiences I gain from counseling others; and with my worldview, also my internal foundations (I talked about this somewhat on the confession thread). I expect to face challenges that I don't expect.
I have a lot of predictions and foresight regarding the indefinite, but what I know definitively is that I am a resilient person and I always find a way to work through what comes at me. I embrace those challenges and obstacles, because by remaining persevering and gritty, those things will only make me a better and stronger person, and add insight and wisdom to me. Without that grit, yes, I agree that it's entirely possible it could ruin me. What I'm trying to say is, that isn't the kind of person I am.
Is there anything in particular you struggle with motivating yourself through? I'm usually really good at developing strategies and insights for this kind of thing. You're welcome to inquire, I'm willing to take a shot at helping you tackle it.
Wow, great post dude. I see some of myself in this.
I'll keep you in mind if there is a struggle I want some feed back for. That's a nice offer.
Thinking about pros and cons of using socionics in the background as I prepare a career strengths self discovery, branding / marketing, networking, and ultimately job search period of my life. It’s probably similar to upsides and downsides of thinking about ITR and types in dating or navigating relationships…
From my pov, an upside in this domain is that it provides some concrete language and ideas about my strengths. A pitfall is that it reinforces the idea of myself as being no-good at entrepreneurially looking for work in a way that has any knowhow muscle to it. I’ve erred before by using my Fi and Se to build connections with people / sort of impose myself onto them for their consideration; I totally lacked an understanding of the larger field and didn’t know how to conduct myself as a splo operator; I felt way in over my head trying to ‘keep up’ with others in this way. I’m also soc-blind and I read that we’ll have trouble identifying how we can make a difference in / contribute to the larger sphere. I like working in small groups of like-minded others, to use some language from https://wikisocion.github.io/content/waves_aging.html. I like getting to know those with whom I work and rallying for them. I’m good at doing little dirty work that other people don’t want to do (this is a trait of Se creatives, I read on this site). I feel very exposed and vulnerable thinking about how I feel totally like I’m flailing about with a weak sense of direction and purpose in this area and it’s all too easy to victimize myself as oh no, I dont have a dual to help me with this, what am I gonna do.
I do have some duals in my life, but there’s more that I need to do to try to synthesize my thoughts about what I’m good at before I can start a conversation with them in earnest about how to move forward. I kid not that I’ve put off such synthesizing for months while I’ve been dealing with more pressing matters as in doing the work to obtain my graduate degree. I’m a mess right now but I’ll put myself together bit by bit. I myself say that people are haunted by some issues over and over until they really deal with them… okay. Love
spacious, you sound very much like my ESI-Se interior decorator after she graduated with an advanced degree and was looking for a job that she would like.
She found one, incidentally.
@Adam Strange, thank you, your story gave me some hope. Ne polr (speaking for myself here) needs someone who believes in them. Negativist focusing on everything not figured out or not there needs some balance to it.
...
Thank you, @spacious, for the above. A long time ago, I had read on this forum that ESIs "want to believe", but I assumed that they "want to believe" in something greater than themselves, and I have always felt challenged by that idea. I'm not sure I can provide that.@Adam Strange, thank you, your story gave me some hope. Ne polr (speaking for myself here) needs someone who believes in them. Negativist focusing on everything not figured out or not there needs some balance to it.
However, if Ne-PoLR merely means that they need someone to believe in them, well, that's easy. Every ESI I've ever met was easy to believe in, because they are such terrific people. So thank you for correcting my misunderstanding.
I'm not being sarcastic, if you had any doubt. I actually do think that ESIs are really terrific.
I also have known since high school, when I met my best ESI buddy, that he always underestimated his talents. The guy was fantastic, and he didn't see it. And every ESI I've met since then has that same characteristic. They undervalue themselves.
I worked with a male ESI for many years, and I once told him that he actually was the reason that the place was running as well as it was, and why didn't he ever go for the top slot?
He said that, Yes, he knew how everything works and remembered everything that anyone ever did, and he could even see the many future opportunities that the company had, but he could not choose which one to go with.
I'm convinced that this is the reason why I see almost every ESI get into a job and stay there for life (or for a long time, anyway), no matter how crappy that job might be. The ESI is worried that the next job would be worse, and this, and this alone, holds them back. Maybe they need an LIE to just pick something, although I suspect that 99% of the LIEs would choose the wrong career for an ESI. Certainly, the more that I contributed to the design of her artwork, the worse the ESI Artist's work became. Eventually, I just asked her for several sketches, picked one, and she did the rest. And she produced some great pieces of art.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-30-2024 at 04:49 AM.
I found the thread that I was thinking of that articulated the idea that having someone who believes in them is incredibly meaningful to Polr Ne. [Socionics] My thoughts on ESI - LIE duality (the16types.info) note that the original articulation has been removed by the poster, however it survives in quoted text in the most recent post in the thread. I do agree with that view of Polr Ne and the role that the dual plays in it. As far as the hidden agenda of Ni, I am familiar with boiling those down into a verb or two. I see that as slightly more independent on the person's part (the role of the mobilizing function in their life), and less of an area of active need for help and protection from the dual. I completely agree with you that helping a person to believe in something greater than themselves is way too big a burden for a single person to do for someone. I hope my attempt at articulating what is Ne polr and what is Ni mobilizing makes some sense.
Something I think about a lot is the comment on one of those semi-satirical critical of ESIs posts (I couldn't find it to link) that went, It's like they simultaneously have low self-esteem and huge egos. YIKES.
Anyway, I enjoyed your post a lot, @Adam Strange. There's a gravitas to it that I really appreciate.
I would rephrase your bolded text above, to say that ESIs are careful not to over-promise, and they have high standards.
Which is exactly what their LIE Duals need in a partner.
Love it!
Two people have recently told me that they "have no doubt" that I'll get to my November deadline successfully and finish my degree. it's a thing that people say to encourage but the "i have NO DOUBT" (emphasis my own, not their wording) especially speaks to me, given my Ne Polr doubting life. The LII gave some additional context to why he had this faith in me: "Given the things you've been talking about and the mindset that you've had in the last month, I have NO DOUBT that you'll get there."Adam Strange thank you, your story gave me some hope. Ne polr (speaking for myself here) needs someone who believes in them. Negativist focusing on everything not figured out or not there needs some balance to it.
emphasis added again because this really, really means so much to me. It's like I can outsource some of my lack-of-faith to other people who can look at my circumstances from more distance and make a judgment.
Relieved...
Not to rain on your parade, but I had no doubts that my ESI best friend in high school would get his PhD in Astrophysics, and he did, but it took three tries. He failed the first two, and it wasn't until he got mad at the rejection and said "fuck this, I don't care if I become an Astronomer or not", that he aced the third and final verbal defense of his thesis.
I always knew he could do it, but evidently, some people are assholes and they want to make things as difficult as they can for other people. Because they are assholes.
Oh, thank you so much for sharing this story; it’s so heartening to hear! I haven’t gotten to get an up close look at the journeys of any ESI PhDs, and sometimes I’ve wondered if some had struggled as much as I have.
My ILI advisor and I met in mid-July to go over my preliminary dissertation draft and she decided at that point to look into the possible options for giving me a little more time before I have to defend. (The institution implemented a policy last year that supposedly made it harder to get any extensions on time to degree.) It was a coup de grâce / Hail Mary pass on her part to literally protect me from stringent committee members failing me. I was actually astounded that she was paying close attention to what has happening with me and had proposed a solution. Hooray! (She was encouraging about where my work stands, and wants me to have the time necessary to “do it right”. Thus, defending in November IS the extended deadline.)
It’s been a bit of a struggle to get my motivation back on track after going through this adjustment. In socionics terms, to figure out the “right” Ni mindstate so that my Se can kick into gear. Something like honoring how far I have come does speak to me. I’m so pleased with where I am compared to one year ago.
Thank you, @Adam Strange! Amazed by my duals’ intuition.
Last edited by spacious; 08-11-2024 at 12:37 AM. Reason: adding a clarification
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