Is introverted intuition (Ni) really so hard to describe?

[Beautiful sky]

What compels you to think it's an ethical description?
Why do you think it's a description of internal processes overall when he gives a clear distinction between two introverted processes?

It's obvious, is arrested at sensation, how it views the qualities, uses a linear-imaginative process to discern the origins and future path of such impressions.

I like this very much.

[Artsu Tharaz]

Ni doesn't operate in the concepts which regular language tends to use, so unless you are using a more refined terminology, or are deliberating on something which regular language does cover, it is very hard to describe. It is interpretation based and subjective, after all - a perspective, essentially - and so it tries to describe not what is seen through a particular perspective, but what the nature of the perspective itself is.

However, other primary Ni's generally get it without needing an explanation, and N's in general will often pick up on what you mean before you've figured out how to give a precise statement of what you are seeing anyway. Besides, as a directive function primary Ni is really more concerned with achieving goals than outlining principles, so it doesn't mind not being understood as long as it is achieving what it wants to.

[Beautiful sky]

Think of this as a framework of possibilities that the person tries to fill in with examples and objects collected from the outside world and ones they can relate with on a subjective level.

Think of this as an object/possibilities/experience with objects and external seeking person without doing much of filling, which again is

[ragnar]

Ni sees patterns that aren't there....to anyone who has not seen before the initial image. One must know the archetype before one can see it.

Both Ne and Ni seem to me to be mainly the ability to come to correct conclusions and insights from insufficient and/or contradictory information, mainly by recognizing patterns either previously observed or imagined to exist; Ni being externally observed as a preference towards the application of this ability in a depth-first fashion rather than a breath-first one, the latter being the Ne preferred modus operandi; both functions being modulated by the judging function, which makes both stink outside the area where it makes them focus.

[Beautiful sky]

Both Ne and Ni seem to me to be mainly the ability to come to correct conclusions and insights from insufficient and/or contradictory information, mainly by recognizing patterns either previously observed or imagined to exist; Ni being externally observed as a preference towards the application of this ability in a depth-first fashion rather than a breath-first one, the latter being the Ne preferred modus operandi; both functions being modulated by the judging function, which makes both stink outside the area where it makes them focus.

Ni has to observed the object in order to conjure a mental image right? Maybe Ni, being an introvert and having a weak connection to an object, sees it but doesn't recall it like extravert does, maybe the image goes strait to the subconscious and this is how Ni is able to retrieve the image in their minds, like a recall, when talking or thinking about an object or other things.

These imperceptible, subconscious objects are turned to archaic and mythological images because the conscious can't understand them or relate with them; it tries to force them out or compromise with them. This is where images are creates.

[Meyrink]

I attempted a description of Ni on another forum which seemed to do very well with the audience, so I'll go ahead and share it here as well.

Everything begins with the following assumption: everything begins with an assumption. Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. If an assumption works, then it serves a purpose. Purpose is arbitrary. Ideas are tools - a means to an end. Truth is totally irrelevant. Truth is simply a decision. Truth is faith and faith is conviction, and so is knowledge. Knowledge is also arbitrary. Cause and effect is all that exists. Cause and effect gives rise to systems. Systems exist, such as logic and math. Systems are arbitrary. A system is a perception. Perception is interpretation of information. All information is subjective. To observe a system is to create information. To choose a system is to create a purpose for information. Choice generates context for knowledge. Context generates truth. Truth generates conviction by means of repetition. Repeated information forms patterns of perception that give rise to conviction by means of predictability. Predictability is an assumption. Everything ends with an assumption, the same way it began.

There is no ultimate point to anything. There is only what I choose, and what I am aware of choosing. It doesn't matter what my choice is. I already made the choice. It doesn't matter if I am aware of choosing. I already made the choice to be aware of choosing or not. Choices only exist within a system.

I just exist. I am an arbitrary system of systems within a system of systems.

I cannot think outside the box. I cannot think inside the box. I cannot transcend the box.

I am the box.

I am the rabbit hole.

If I just let my mind wander without stopping, the process is very nihilistic. Ideas are deconstructed, the underlying paradigm of thinking that gave rise to the idea is exposed, and then the idea is reconstructed within a new paradigm that suits my needs. By recognizing the paradigm itself, I can "get inside" the "box" which is the paradigm itself, and assert whatever principle I want within the box. It's the opposite of how most people think. I start outside, in the realm of the abstract, and I have to work my way back into the realm of the practical.

The box is like a game. If I see anything linear (a pattern) within the box I can determine the dimensions of the box itself - which is like saying if I know one rule of the game I can determine the entire premise of the game itself. Then I can either play by the rules, or, I can transcend the rules by applying new rules that don't negate the premise of the game. Back to the box analogy, I can alter the dimensions of the box without destroying it.

This can't always be done. If the box/game is extremely well balanced to begin with, then making any changes would destroy the system. In that senario my choices are to obey the system or to choose not to play the game.

I will now attempt to describe "The Rabbit Hole."

I will begin with two basic principles, which are assumed arbitrarily, but serve their fabricated purposes well.

The first is that The Rabbit Hole is spontaneously self-creative. The Rabbit Hole manifests as events and phenomena, and having manifested arbitrarily, tends to stick to a pattern. Thus, the universe is arbitrary within arbitrary limits. There are ultimately no reasons for the laws of reality - they arise spontaneously and take on the appearance of causality by repetition.

These arbitrary limits are less confining than most people think. The sun will still rise, and water will still run downhill tomorrow. But much of what will happen is still undecided. To the "Rabbit" the core principal of existence is that both itself and The Rabbit Hole are based on the same spontaneously self-creative freedom, and that both have the ability to exercise that freedom. Thus, within the Rabbit Hole paradigm there is no need to debate free-will versus determinism. Any sufficiently complex system will exhibit some random behavior. And if The Rabbit chooses to identify with it's random behavior and call it free-will, then it must accept that the weather, for example, also has free-will.

All of this soon leaves The Rabbit with the realization that it is itself which is responsible for creating much of the Rabbit Hole, by investing or withdrawing meaning or belief in various aspects of it.

The second principle is subsumed within the core principal of existence. And that is, that since the Rabbit Hole penetrates everywhere, all parts reflect the whole, and the Rabbit is at least potentially in instantaneous two-way contact with all phenomena.

Just as sunlight obscures the stars by day, so does wakefulness obscure the fact that we are still dreaming.

Any serious exploration of the Rabbit Hole will bring the Rabbit to the realization that it is more than a single being. The single ego or single soul concepts are merely tricks it has been taught to make it more predictable and controllable. The fact remains that when the Rabbit is angry, lustful, sick, ten years younger or older, etc, the Rabbit is no longer what it is at present. The Rabbit may at times experience itself as an abstract being, an empty void, or a businessman, and will come to realize that there is no fundamental need for any consistency. Once free of the illusion of "self" it does not need to rationalize its activities into a single ego pattern or unity.

It is possible for the Rabbit to effectively abort its further progress here. During the course of its explorations down the Rabbit Hole it will acrete various secondary identifications in order to balance its personality. Thus, it may work in the light, charismatic, teacher mode, or the dark, joker, trickster, reclusive mode, or a mixture of these. These will effect its tertiary identifications, which is essentially the idea system and lifestyle it chooses.

Both these secondary and tertiary identifications are merely tools the Rabbit uses, and not of any danger to the Rabbit in themselves. A primary identification is made when the Rabbit accepts some goal, power, idea, or truth, as absolute and outside of itself. The Rabbit becomes a tool of its obsession. Beyond this point the Rabbit can make little progress. It has lost its fluidity, because it has obscured or filled the creative spontaneous void at the center of itself with a partial and artificial conception. In essence, it has become a transcendentalist in a very round-about way.

But for the true Rabbit, nothing is true and everything is permitted. Which is to say that all "absolute" truths, certainties, and knowledges, are lies, and everything it does is justified merely by its doing it. By accepting itself as a colonial being, the Rabbit unlocks the Rabbit Hole.

He who is legion can accomplish anything.

[ArchonAlarion]

Busy rabbit.

[NewBorn STAR]

I attempted a description of Ni on another forum which seemed to do very well with the audience, so I'll go ahead and share it here as well.

My primary cognitive function is introverted intuition. What's that like to me? I'll try to show you.

Everything begins with the following assumption: everything begins with an assumption. Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. If an assumption works, then it serves a purpose. Purpose is arbitrary. Ideas are tools - a means to an end. Truth is totally irrelevant. Truth is simply a decision. Truth is faith and faith is conviction, and so is knowledge. Knowledge is also arbitrary. Cause and effect is all that exists. Cause and effect gives rise to systems. Systems exist, such as logic and math. Systems are arbitrary. A system is a perception. Perception is interpretation of information. All information is subjective. To observe a system is to create information. To choose a system is to create a purpose for information. Choice generates context for knowledge. Context generates truth. Truth generates conviction by means of repetition. Repeated information forms patterns of perception that give rise to conviction by means of predictability. Predictability is an assumption. Everything ends with an assumption, the same way it began.

There is no ultimate point to anything. There is only what I choose, and what I am aware of choosing. It doesn't matter what my choice is. I already made the choice. It doesn't matter if I am aware of choosing. I already made the choice to be aware of choosing or not. Choices only exist within a system.

I just exist. I am an arbitrary system of systems within a system of systems.

I cannot think outside the box. I cannot think inside the box. I cannot transcend the box.

I am the box.

I am the rabbit hole.

If I just let my mind wander without stopping, the process is very nihilistic. Ideas are deconstructed, the underlying paradigm of thinking that gave rise to the idea is exposed, and then the idea is reconstructed within a new paradigm that suits my needs. By recognizing the paradigm itself, I can "get inside" the "box" which is the paradigm itself, and assert whatever principle I want within the box. It's the opposite of how most people think. I start outside, in the realm of the abstract, and I have to work my way back into the realm of the practical.

The box is like a game. If I see anything linear (a pattern) within the box I can determine the dimensions of the box itself - which is like saying if I know one rule of the game I can determine the entire premise of the game itself. Then I can either play by the rules, or, I can transcend the rules by applying new rules that don't negate the premise of the game. Back to the box analogy, I can alter the dimensions of the box without destroying it.

This can't always be done. If the box/game is extremely well balanced to begin with, then making any changes would destroy the system. In that senario my choices are to obey the system or to choose not to play the game.

I will now attempt to describe "The Rabbit Hole."

I will begin with two basic principles, which are assumed arbitrarily, but serve their fabricated purposes well.

The first is that The Rabbit Hole is spontaneously self-creative. The Rabbit Hole manifests as events and phenomena, and having manifested arbitrarily, tends to stick to a pattern. Thus, the universe is arbitrary within arbitrary limits. There are ultimately no reasons for the laws of reality - they arise spontaneously and take on the appearance of causality by repetition.

These arbitrary limits are less confining than most people think. The sun will still rise, and water will still run downhill tomorrow. But much of what will happen is still undecided. To the "Rabbit" the core principal of existence is that both itself and The Rabbit Hole are based on the same spontaneously self-creative freedom, and that both have the ability to exercise that freedom. Thus, within the Rabbit Hole paradigm there is no need to debate free-will versus determinism. Any sufficiently complex system will exhibit some random behavior. And if The Rabbit chooses to identify with it's random behavior and call it free-will, then it must accept that the weather, for example, also has free-will.

All of this soon leaves The Rabbit with the realization that it is itself which is responsible for creating much of the Rabbit Hole, by investing or withdrawing meaning or belief in various aspects of it.

The second principle is subsumed within the core principal of existence. And that is, that since the Rabbit Hole penetrates everywhere, all parts reflect the whole, and the Rabbit is at least potentially in instantaneous two-way contact with all phenomena.

Just as sunlight obscures the stars by day, so does wakefulness obscure the fact that we are still dreaming.

Any serious exploration of the Rabbit Hole will bring the Rabbit to the realization that it is more than a single being. The single ego or single soul concepts are merely tricks it has been taught to make it more predictable and controllable. The fact remains that when the Rabbit is angry, lustful, sick, ten years younger or older, etc, the Rabbit is no longer what it is at present. The Rabbit may at times experience itself as an abstract being, an empty void, or a businessman, and will come to realize that there is no fundamental need for any consistency. Once free of the illusion of "self" it does not need to rationalize its activities into a single ego pattern or unity.

It is possible for the Rabbit to effectively abort its further progress here. During the course of its explorations down the Rabbit Hole it will acrete various secondary identifications in order to balance its personality. Thus, it may work in the light, charismatic, teacher mode, or the dark, joker, trickster, reclusive mode, or a mixture of these. These will effect its tertiary identifications, which is essentially the idea system and lifestyle it chooses.

Both these secondary and tertiary identifications are merely tools the Rabbit uses, and not of any danger to the Rabbit in themselves. A primary identification is made when the Rabbit accepts some goal, power, idea, or truth, as absolute and outside of itself. The Rabbit becomes a tool of its obsession. Beyond this point the Rabbit can make little progress. It has lost its fluidity, because it has obscured or filled the creative spontaneous void at the center of itself with a partial and artificial conception. In essence, it has become a transcendentalist in a very round-about way.

But for the true Rabbit, nothing is true and everything is permitted. Which is to say that all "absolute" truths, certainties, and knowledges, are lies, and everything it does is justified merely by its doing it. By accepting itself as a colonial being, the Rabbit unlocks the Rabbit Hole.

He who is legion can accomplish anything.

I agree its a good view. Then its all about what toys shall you stick into the hole for your own individual vaccuum

[noid]

That come from Perc, I see more this as a ILI introspection than pure Ni description. Really nice to read anyway.

[Meyrink]

That come from Perc, I see more this as a ILI introspection than pure Ni description. Really nice to read anyway.

Yeah, I posted it there. I was Abraxas, until I retired. Got sick of the bullshit.

Starting to get sick of the bullshit here too. No offense to anyone.

[Pookie]

I attempted a description of Ni on another forum which seemed to do very well with the audience, so I'll go ahead and share it here as well.

Everything begins with the following assumption: everything begins with an assumption. Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. If an assumption works, then it serves a purpose. Purpose is arbitrary. Ideas are tools - a means to an end. Truth is totally irrelevant. Truth is simply a decision. Truth is faith and faith is conviction, and so is knowledge. Knowledge is also arbitrary. Cause and effect is all that exists. Cause and effect gives rise to systems. Systems exist, such as logic and math. Systems are arbitrary. A system is a perception. Perception is interpretation of information. All information is subjective. To observe a system is to create information. To choose a system is to create a purpose for information. Choice generates context for knowledge. Context generates truth. Truth generates conviction by means of repetition. Repeated information forms patterns of perception that give rise to conviction by means of predictability. Predictability is an assumption. Everything ends with an assumption, the same way it began.

There is no ultimate point to anything. There is only what I choose, and what I am aware of choosing. It doesn't matter what my choice is. I already made the choice. It doesn't matter if I am aware of choosing. I already made the choice to be aware of choosing or not. Choices only exist within a system.

I just exist. I am an arbitrary system of systems within a system of systems.

I cannot think outside the box. I cannot think inside the box. I cannot transcend the box.

I am the box.

I am the rabbit hole.

If I just let my mind wander without stopping, the process is very nihilistic. Ideas are deconstructed, the underlying paradigm of thinking that gave rise to the idea is exposed, and then the idea is reconstructed within a new paradigm that suits my needs. By recognizing the paradigm itself, I can "get inside" the "box" which is the paradigm itself, and assert whatever principle I want within the box. It's the opposite of how most people think. I start outside, in the realm of the abstract, and I have to work my way back into the realm of the practical.

The box is like a game. If I see anything linear (a pattern) within the box I can determine the dimensions of the box itself - which is like saying if I know one rule of the game I can determine the entire premise of the game itself. Then I can either play by the rules, or, I can transcend the rules by applying new rules that don't negate the premise of the game. Back to the box analogy, I can alter the dimensions of the box without destroying it.

This can't always be done. If the box/game is extremely well balanced to begin with, then making any changes would destroy the system. In that senario my choices are to obey the system or to choose not to play the game.

I will now attempt to describe "The Rabbit Hole."

I will begin with two basic principles, which are assumed arbitrarily, but serve their fabricated purposes well.

The first is that The Rabbit Hole is spontaneously self-creative. The Rabbit Hole manifests as events and phenomena, and having manifested arbitrarily, tends to stick to a pattern. Thus, the universe is arbitrary within arbitrary limits. There are ultimately no reasons for the laws of reality - they arise spontaneously and take on the appearance of causality by repetition.

These arbitrary limits are less confining than most people think. The sun will still rise, and water will still run downhill tomorrow. But much of what will happen is still undecided. To the "Rabbit" the core principal of existence is that both itself and The Rabbit Hole are based on the same spontaneously self-creative freedom, and that both have the ability to exercise that freedom. Thus, within the Rabbit Hole paradigm there is no need to debate free-will versus determinism. Any sufficiently complex system will exhibit some random behavior. And if The Rabbit chooses to identify with it's random behavior and call it free-will, then it must accept that the weather, for example, also has free-will.

All of this soon leaves The Rabbit with the realization that it is itself which is responsible for creating much of the Rabbit Hole, by investing or withdrawing meaning or belief in various aspects of it.

The second principle is subsumed within the core principal of existence. And that is, that since the Rabbit Hole penetrates everywhere, all parts reflect the whole, and the Rabbit is at least potentially in instantaneous two-way contact with all phenomena.

Just as sunlight obscures the stars by day, so does wakefulness obscure the fact that we are still dreaming.

Any serious exploration of the Rabbit Hole will bring the Rabbit to the realization that it is more than a single being. The single ego or single soul concepts are merely tricks it has been taught to make it more predictable and controllable. The fact remains that when the Rabbit is angry, lustful, sick, ten years younger or older, etc, the Rabbit is no longer what it is at present. The Rabbit may at times experience itself as an abstract being, an empty void, or a businessman, and will come to realize that there is no fundamental need for any consistency. Once free of the illusion of "self" it does not need to rationalize its activities into a single ego pattern or unity.

It is possible for the Rabbit to effectively abort its further progress here. During the course of its explorations down the Rabbit Hole it will acrete various secondary identifications in order to balance its personality. Thus, it may work in the light, charismatic, teacher mode, or the dark, joker, trickster, reclusive mode, or a mixture of these. These will effect its tertiary identifications, which is essentially the idea system and lifestyle it chooses.

Both these secondary and tertiary identifications are merely tools the Rabbit uses, and not of any danger to the Rabbit in themselves. A primary identification is made when the Rabbit accepts some goal, power, idea, or truth, as absolute and outside of itself. The Rabbit becomes a tool of its obsession. Beyond this point the Rabbit can make little progress. It has lost its fluidity, because it has obscured or filled the creative spontaneous void at the center of itself with a partial and artificial conception. In essence, it has become a transcendentalist in a very round-about way.

But for the true Rabbit, nothing is true and everything is permitted. Which is to say that all "absolute" truths, certainties, and knowledges, are lies, and everything it does is justified merely by its doing it. By accepting itself as a colonial being, the Rabbit unlocks the Rabbit Hole.

He who is legion can accomplish anything.

I would just like to bump this whole thread because this one post is awesome.

[GuavaDrunk]

I attempted a description of Ni on another forum which seemed to do very well with the audience, so I'll go ahead and share it here as well.

Everything begins with the following assumption: everything begins with an assumption. Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. If an assumption works, then it serves a purpose. Purpose is arbitrary. Ideas are tools - a means to an end. Truth is totally irrelevant. Truth is simply a decision. Truth is faith and faith is conviction, and so is knowledge. Knowledge is also arbitrary. Cause and effect is all that exists. Cause and effect gives rise to systems. Systems exist, such as logic and math. Systems are arbitrary. A system is a perception. Perception is interpretation of information. All information is subjective. To observe a system is to create information. To choose a system is to create a purpose for information. Choice generates context for knowledge. Context generates truth. Truth generates conviction by means of repetition. Repeated information forms patterns of perception that give rise to conviction by means of predictability. Predictability is an assumption. Everything ends with an assumption, the same way it began.

There is no ultimate point to anything. There is only what I choose, and what I am aware of choosing. It doesn't matter what my choice is. I already made the choice. It doesn't matter if I am aware of choosing. I already made the choice to be aware of choosing or not. Choices only exist within a system.

I just exist. I am an arbitrary system of systems within a system of systems.

I cannot think outside the box. I cannot think inside the box. I cannot transcend the box.

I am the box.

I am the rabbit hole.

If I just let my mind wander without stopping, the process is very nihilistic. Ideas are deconstructed, the underlying paradigm of thinking that gave rise to the idea is exposed, and then the idea is reconstructed within a new paradigm that suits my needs. By recognizing the paradigm itself, I can "get inside" the "box" which is the paradigm itself, and assert whatever principle I want within the box. It's the opposite of how most people think. I start outside, in the realm of the abstract, and I have to work my way back into the realm of the practical.

The box is like a game. If I see anything linear (a pattern) within the box I can determine the dimensions of the box itself - which is like saying if I know one rule of the game I can determine the entire premise of the game itself. Then I can either play by the rules, or, I can transcend the rules by applying new rules that don't negate the premise of the game. Back to the box analogy, I can alter the dimensions of the box without destroying it.

This can't always be done. If the box/game is extremely well balanced to begin with, then making any changes would destroy the system. In that senario my choices are to obey the system or to choose not to play the game.

I will now attempt to describe "The Rabbit Hole."

I will begin with two basic principles, which are assumed arbitrarily, but serve their fabricated purposes well.

The first is that The Rabbit Hole is spontaneously self-creative. The Rabbit Hole manifests as events and phenomena, and having manifested arbitrarily, tends to stick to a pattern. Thus, the universe is arbitrary within arbitrary limits. There are ultimately no reasons for the laws of reality - they arise spontaneously and take on the appearance of causality by repetition.

These arbitrary limits are less confining than most people think. The sun will still rise, and water will still run downhill tomorrow. But much of what will happen is still undecided. To the "Rabbit" the core principal of existence is that both itself and The Rabbit Hole are based on the same spontaneously self-creative freedom, and that both have the ability to exercise that freedom. Thus, within the Rabbit Hole paradigm there is no need to debate free-will versus determinism. Any sufficiently complex system will exhibit some random behavior. And if The Rabbit chooses to identify with it's random behavior and call it free-will, then it must accept that the weather, for example, also has free-will.

All of this soon leaves The Rabbit with the realization that it is itself which is responsible for creating much of the Rabbit Hole, by investing or withdrawing meaning or belief in various aspects of it.

The second principle is subsumed within the core principal of existence. And that is, that since the Rabbit Hole penetrates everywhere, all parts reflect the whole, and the Rabbit is at least potentially in instantaneous two-way contact with all phenomena.

Just as sunlight obscures the stars by day, so does wakefulness obscure the fact that we are still dreaming.

Any serious exploration of the Rabbit Hole will bring the Rabbit to the realization that it is more than a single being. The single ego or single soul concepts are merely tricks it has been taught to make it more predictable and controllable. The fact remains that when the Rabbit is angry, lustful, sick, ten years younger or older, etc, the Rabbit is no longer what it is at present. The Rabbit may at times experience itself as an abstract being, an empty void, or a businessman, and will come to realize that there is no fundamental need for any consistency. Once free of the illusion of "self" it does not need to rationalize its activities into a single ego pattern or unity.

It is possible for the Rabbit to effectively abort its further progress here. During the course of its explorations down the Rabbit Hole it will acrete various secondary identifications in order to balance its personality. Thus, it may work in the light, charismatic, teacher mode, or the dark, joker, trickster, reclusive mode, or a mixture of these. These will effect its tertiary identifications, which is essentially the idea system and lifestyle it chooses.

Both these secondary and tertiary identifications are merely tools the Rabbit uses, and not of any danger to the Rabbit in themselves. A primary identification is made when the Rabbit accepts some goal, power, idea, or truth, as absolute and outside of itself. The Rabbit becomes a tool of its obsession. Beyond this point the Rabbit can make little progress. It has lost its fluidity, because it has obscured or filled the creative spontaneous void at the center of itself with a partial and artificial conception. In essence, it has become a transcendentalist in a very round-about way.

But for the true Rabbit, nothing is true and everything is permitted. Which is to say that all "absolute" truths, certainties, and knowledges, are lies, and everything it does is justified merely by its doing it. By accepting itself as a colonial being, the Rabbit unlocks the Rabbit Hole.

He who is legion can accomplish anything.

Cool, but overblow tripe as an explanation.

[Azure Flame]

As an Ni user, my mind feels like a cloud of atoms that condense into a form of somekind. That form is my conclusion. I don't know if this is Ni or Te or something.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Ni is the reverberating half of the h and m in ohm.

Now pay me for my psychobabble and I will be on my way.

[Absurd]

Ni is like a balloon, one prick and gone...

[GuavaDrunk]

As an Ni user, my mind feels like a cloud of atoms that condense into a form of somekind. That form is my conclusion. I don't know if this is Ni or Te or something.

Does Vortical-Synergetic cognition look like a good approximation?

[Creepy-pokeball]

Does Vortical-Synergetic cognition look like a good approximation?

Nerd

[Absurd]

Nerd

I think you and Guava are going to profit, hell everyone will, knowing cognitive styles are ripped off and based on something that passed away and remains in the nostalgic minds of quite a number of people in the world, that is, DarkAngelFireWolf69 hailing from Ukraine knew(?) what he was doing when he took those labels and fused it with socionics producing cognitive styles.

[ArchonAlarion]

As an Ni user, my mind feels like a cloud of atoms that condense into a form of somekind. That form is my conclusion. I don't know if this is Ni or Te or something.

That is Ti; The shaping of psychic content into definite forms of order. Well, if you feel somewhat "fascinated" by that process then it sounds Ti:


"For this kind of thinking facts are of secondary importance; what, apparently, is of absolutely paramount importance is the development and presentation of the subjective idea, that primordial symbolical image standing more or less darkly before the inner vision. Its aim, therefore, is never concerned with an intellectual reconstruction of concrete actuality, but with the shaping of that dim image into a resplendent idea. Its desire is to reach reality; its goal is to see how external facts fit into, and fulfil, the framework of the idea; its actual creative power is proved by the fact that this thinking can also create that idea which, though not present in the external facts, is yet the most suitable, abstract expression of them. Its task is accomplished when the idea it has fashioned seems to emerge so inevitably from the external facts that they actually prove its validity."

"...so in the latter case introverted thinking shows a dangerous tendency [p. 482] to coerce facts into the shape of its image, or by ignoring them altogether, to unfold its phantasy image in freedom. In such a case, it will be impossible for the presented idea to deny its origin from the dim archaic image. There will cling to it a certain mythological character that we are prone to interpret as 'originality', or in more pronounced cases' as mere whimsicality; since its archaic character is not transparent as such to specialists unfamiliar with mythological motives."

"yet always with a distinct tendency to go over from the world of ideas into mere imagery. Accordingly many intuitions of possibilities appear on the scene, none of which however achieve any reality, until finally images are produced which no longer express anything externally real, being 'merely' symbols of the simply unknowable."

- chapter 10, jung, yada yada

[Absurd]

That is Ti. The shaping of psychic content into definite forms of order.

Clap, clap.

[consentingadult]

That is Ti

No, it isn't. it's Forer-effect BS that can mean anything.

[ArchonAlarion]

Nope, it's not. Jung was pretty damn specific and so was I. If your personality can be characterized by a fascination with that kind of thought process and high degree of capability in that regard, than you are an introverted thinking type. There are exactly 7 other ways you could be orienting towards reality and Jung characterizes them and their consequential behavioral idiosyncrasies with little overlap.

[consentingadult]

Nope, it's not. Jung was pretty damn specific and so was I. If your personality can be characterized by a fascination with that kind of thought process and high degree of capability in that regard, than you are an introverted thinking type. There are exactly 7 other ways you could be orienting towards reality and Jung characterizes them and their consequential behavioral idiosyncrasies with little overlap.

Well, It is very obvious that you are capable of turning any cloud of atoms in your mind into a conclusion that serves you well.

[Absurd]

This actually is going to make "How do I determine my own type?" thread proud...

[ArchonAlarion]

Well, It is very obvious that you are capable of turning any cloud of atoms in your mind into a conclusion that serves you well.

At least my mind isn't full of empty space.

[consentingadult]

At least my mind isn't full of empty space.

My mind is empty where it should be, I don't make the facts fit my framework. I quote from Psychological Types, of which a have a Dutch copy on my desk right in front of me. It says about introverted thinking:

"For, as in the former case [i.e. Te] the purely empirical heaping together of facts paralyses thought and smothers their meaning, so in the latter case introverted thinking shows a dangerous tendency to coerce facts into the shape of its image, or by ignoring them altogether, to unfold its phantasy image in freedom." (taken from wikisocion, which does not contradict what I read in the Dutch version).

What Jung describes here, is exactly what you are doing.

[Absurd]

This is really good

Matthew 26: "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Haha!

"For, as in the former case [i.e. Te] the purely empirical heaping together of facts paralyses[...]

I have to write that down, I've seen a one Te creative having aversion to it.

[ArchonAlarion]

Let me learn you some facts.

This is a thread about describing introverted intuition.

DJ Arendee commented, "As an Ni user, my mind feels like a cloud of atoms that condense into a form of somekind. That form is my conclusion. I don't know if this is Ni or Te or something."

Here is an unnecessary, point by point interpretation for your pleasure.

No. 1: "my mind feels like" suggests the subjective, introverted realm

No. 2: "Cloud of atoms" suggests an amorphous variety of component pieces. "atoms," in the context of such an analogy suggests a more logical/structural bent, given that atoms are generally depicted mathematically and geometrically.

No. 3: "That condense into a form of some kind" suggests a personal description of exactly what Jung was describing about the introverted thinking function. "Form" in this context suggests a definite and structural entity, in contrast to the previous amorphous "cloud", which suggests a rationally bounded idea arising out of an irrational and accidental arrangement of data.

No. 4: "That form is my conclusion" suggests not only judgement, but specifically judgement based on a subjective construction.

No. 5: His post began with "As an Ni user" and ended with "I don't know if this is Ni or Te or something." I felt the need to pose a third option, Ti.

*edit: Btw, I'm using Ne creative here, not Ti.

[consentingadult]

Let me learn you some facts.

This is a thread about describing introverted intuition.

DJ Arendee commented, "As an Ni user, my mind feels like a cloud of atoms that condense into a form of somekind. That form is my conclusion. I don't know if this is Ni or Te or something."

Here is an unnecessary, point by point interpretation for your pleasure.

No. 1: "my mind feels like" suggests the subjective, introverted realm

No. 2: "Cloud of atoms" suggests an amorphous variety of component pieces. "atoms," in the context of such an analogy suggests a more logical/structural bent, given that atoms are generally depicted mathematically and geometrically.

No. 3: "That condense into a form of some kind" suggests a personal description of exactly what Jung was describing about the introverted thinking function. "Form" in this context suggests a definite and structural entity, in contrast to the previous amorphous "cloud", which suggests a rationally bounded idea arising out of an irrational and accidental arrangement of data.

No. 4: "That form is my conclusion" suggests not only judgement, but specifically judgement based on a subjective construction.

No. 5: His post began with "As an Ni user" and ended with "I don't know if this is Ni or Te or something." I felt the need to pose a third option, Ti.

Again, you're making the facts fit your conclusions. Arendee's statement is simply too short, too abstract, too metaphorically to warrant a conclusion about any information elements/aspect.

[Absurd]

[ArchonAlarion]

Ahaha, yes it would appear that way to a serious type.

"too short, too abstract, too metaphorically [worded?] to warrant a conclusion about any information elements/aspect."

Te complaint against Ti.

(half-joking now).

[consentingadult]

Ahaha, yes it would appear that way to a serious type.

"too short, too abstract, too metaphorically [worded?] to warrant a conclusion about any information elements/aspect."

Te complaint against Ti.

Not at all, it's an Ne complaint against Ti. Arendee's statement is simply lacking sufficient context to make warranted claims. Without such sufficient context, any conclusion cannot even be properly falsified.

[ArchonAlarion]

Of course it was too short. I just wanted to point out that given that small bit of information, it suggested Ti rather than Ni or Te. I had hoped my post would serve as a discussion point, and it did, but not very productively.

[ArchonAlarion]

Not at all, it's an Ne complaint against Ti. Arendee's statement is simply lacking sufficient context to make warranted claims. Without such sufficient context, any conclusion cannot even be properly falsified.

Agreed. Perhaps DJ will re-enter the thread and shed some light on the subject.

[consentingadult]

Of course it was too short. I just wanted to point out that given that small bit of information, it suggested Ti rather than Ni or Te. I had hoped my post would serve as a discussion point, and it did, but not very productively.

Well, we agree then. And we both contributed: you wanted to explore the possibility of Ti, I the possibility of it being a forer effect statement.

[ArchonAlarion]

It may well have been. I was basing much of my point on associations that seemed suggested by the phrases given the context as well as my holistic knowledge of the associations that are commonly made to those ideas. As long as you didn't mean that Jung's description of Ti was a Forer, than we're cool.

[consentingadult]

All right then. back to the question of what Ni is.

Ni, when properly applied (since any IE can be applied when not appropriate), perceives the development of a process in action. It does not so much think things through logically, but it "sees" it in the blink of an eye, so to speak. It can "see" if a course of action follows an inevitable path.

A good example of what Ni is about, is Lars von Trier's movie "Melancholia". It's about a young woman who "foresees" the destruction of Earth and all life in the Universe (where others don't), and falls into a depression because of that.

ETA: before we go into a discussion of the movie itself, I think I should mention I don't think it's a good movie, but it explains Ni quite decently if taken metaphorically.

[ArchonAlarion]

"perceives the development of a process in action," now that is pretty vague. You certainly conveyed perception and a transitioning quality, but that's basically it. How is this distinct from another "dynamic" function (Ni, Si, Fe, Te). Describing Ne as a comparison may help.

(not related to our prior discussion)

[consentingadult]

"perceives the development of a process in action," now that is pretty vague. You certainly conveyed perception and a transitioning quality, but that's basically it. How is this distinct from another "dynamic" function (Ni, Si, Fe, Te). Describing Ne as a comparison may help.

(not related to our prior discussion)

Let me put if differently then: Ni "sees" causality sequences. A causes B, B causes C. Ne "sees" possibilities, but is less inclined to use causality sequences, instead it compares situations using Genus and Differentia aspects of the essentials involved.

[Kim]

Ni shouldn't be any harder to describe than any other function. For some reason it has turned into the mythical fairy tale function only understood by the chosen ones...