Is introverted intuition (Ni) really so hard to describe?

[Aiss]

Relevant quote:

Whereas introverted sensation is mainly confined to the perception of particular innervation phenomena by way of the unconscious, and does not go beyond them, intuition represses this side of the subjective factor and perceives the image which has really occasioned the innervation. Supposing, for instance, a man is overtaken by a psychogenic attack of giddiness. Sensation is arrested by the peculiar character of this innervationdisturbance, perceiving all its qualities, its intensity, its transient course, the nature of its origin and disappearance [p. 506] in their every detail, without raising the smallest inquiry concerning the nature of the thing which produced the disturbance, or advancing anything as to its content. Intuition, on the other hand, receives from the sensation only the impetus to immediate activity; it peers behind the scenes, quickly perceiving the inner image that gave rise to the specific phenomenon, i.e. the attack of vertigo, in the present case. It sees the image of a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow. This image fascinates the intuitive activity; it is arrested by it, and seeks to explore every detail of it. It holds fast to the vision, observing with the liveliest interest how the picture changes, unfolds further, and finally fades. In this way introverted intuition perceives all the background processes of consciousness with almost the same distinctness as extraverted sensation senses outer objects. For intuition, therefore, the unconscious images attain to the dignity of things or objects. But, because intuition excludes the co-operation of sensation, it obtains either no knowledge at all or at the best a very inadequate awareness of the innervation-disturbances or of the physical effects produced by the unconscious images. Accordingly, the images appear as though detached from the subject, as though existing in themselves without relation to the person.

[717495]

That sounds like a good description of the process of intuition and internal functions overall. I think the description example sounds somewhat hued toward an empathetic, ethical, reactive nature similar to Fe. I wonder if it's because Jung was IEI or if he just viewed this type that way.

[Red Villain]

That sounds like a good description of the process of intuition and internal functions overall. I think the description example sounds somewhat hued toward an empathetic, ethical, reactive nature similar to Fe. I wonder if it's because Jung was IEI or if he just viewed this type that way.

What compels you to think it's an ethical description?
Why do you think it's a description of internal processes overall when he gives a clear distinction between two introverted processes?

It's obvious, is arrested at sensation, how it views the qualities, uses a linear-imaginative process to discern the origins and future path of such impressions.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Sometimes it feels as if Ni is the Wild, Wild West in which some wish to conquer and command. It's just a function Granted, depending on who you ask, it may or may not be among the more rare functions, but its just a function none-the-less.

[Gilly]

Oooooh, the RARE function...

Fucking douchebag.

[Sumer1an]

If that's the case, I'd say its more Ne. ILEs do this, much more than ILIs do. Ne is based on reactive intuition, grasping signals "in the moment," and acting on and performing with them, being a kind of chameleon to what they sense is under the surface. This is just one aspect of it. While Fe does this too, Ne is more about seeing "through" to the deeper meaning in others more than it is seeing what they value, feel or what they expect in people. It is not a judgment function. So Ne can be very round-about in getting to the point and surprising people, making them think they're much closer to them mentally and behaviorally.

This is why INFjs make good psychologists, because they "take in" the values and moods of others, progressively, without a need for response, but using Ne they provide lots of intuitive feedback that allows for others to become inspired or let them know they're on the same page, and this, unlike with ISFjs, is their method for building meaningful relationships. I think the forum member by the name of maritsa33 makes for a pretty fine example of this type, where as Beta NFs act in the complete opposite manner.

ILIs are supposed to ignore Ne, so while they can and do easily do this, Ni will prefer to not assume acting in any way consciously, and will instead be very careful and progressive in their assumptions about what they're seeing under the surface in people. So ILIs won't demonstrate any kind of obvious likeness, being opposed to making a spectacle in this sense, and this why often Ni dominants are enneagram 4s, or 5w4. This is not to say their Ne will not come through when they don't want it to and they won't receive these shrewd signals. They will act on them if they feel its right.

In introverts, the most and oftentimes the only obvious extroverted function will be their creative function. Where as they're known historically in dealing more with all four introverted functions (just quoting how people talk about it on here, from their experience.) As an introvert, I pretty much relate to every introverted function description more or less, as long as its talking about something purely introverted and doesn't get carried away by quadra bias. There is no way to get around the hue of introversion, as Jung speaks of introversion as a whole attitude.

So the kind of temperament you speak of when you say "knowing how to act" and "subliminating with others" is an extroverted mindset.

What/who are you addressing with this post exactly? Im assuming you are addressing me but Im not sure that we are on the same page. I dont think you understood quite what Jarno meant when he said subliminating with others but I wont speak for him.

[Erk]

Ni is about signs and what they represent. In this way it can be completely detached from the imminent reality, so says jung.

[InkStrider]

Ni is about signs and what they represent. In this way it can be completely detached from the imminent reality, so says jung.

If you're referring to symbolism, I'm pretty interested in that. The alternate meaning behind the facades, the different interpretations of different works, actual perspective of an author/artist taking into account the context of his background and life history, etc. I hesitate to attribute this to Ni, though I suppose it may be argued that the complete immersion into "signs" to the extent of seeing its' representation everywhere might be.

[Absurd]

If you're referring to symbolism, I'm pretty interested in that. The alternate meaning behind the facades, the different interpretations of different works, actual perspective of an author/artist taking into account the context of his background and life history, etc. I hesitate to attribute this to Ni, though I suppose it may be argued that the complete immersion into "signs" to the extent of seeing its' representation everywhere might be.

Time to retype gamma.

[Erk]

Not symbols, signs. But yeah all introverted functions are cut off to a degree, and of course Ashton is right about the ability to see pure unadulterated reality.

[Suz]

Ni is about signs and what they represent. In this way it can be completely detached from the imminent reality, so says jung.

Not symbols, signs. But yeah all introverted functions are cut off to a degree, and of course Ashton is right about the ability to see pure unadulterated reality.

wow, erky speaks!!!

[Erk]

I knew what your response was going to be before I read it.

[silke]

Ni is illustrated perfectly in this video:

[bionic]

I think of Ni like this:

Ultimately, any perception can be "symbolic" but it's more about what you see and what it means to you. Sometimes when you know, you just awaken, and there are other patterns beneath the layers. It's ultimately about what you personally align to those thoughts and hunches. Sometimes, in deep state of thoughts, meanings can be intertwined into each other and unravel in ways you didn't expect.

Most Ni users I know that talk about their "perceptions" find it very uncomfortable and even opposing on their privacy, like they're sharing a secret only they want to covet because it may be counter-intuitive or 'ridiculous' to someone who doesn't understand it. I know I personally do because sometimes when I 'know' something, I put all my soul into it and it becomes completely believable to me whether it's tangible or not.

Jung says it nicely in "The moral problem comes into being when the intuitive tries to relate himself to his vision, when he is no longer satisfied with mere perception and its aesthetic shaping and estimation, but confronts the question: What does this mean for me and for the world?". It just a really subjective and sometimes illusive experience that a Ni user can get wrapped up in for awhile if reality doesn't necessarily meet the reality of what is.

So yeah... describing this was actually a lot more tough than I expected so here is a link to Jung's description: http://ark.asengard.net/blog/tag/jung/

[Leader]

^Makes more sense now. Would be better if people could try and relate it to something more tangible.

[Red Villain]

"Perfume: The story of a murderer" is a movie that is entirely about

[InkStrider]

"Perfume: The story of a murderer" is a movie that is entirely about

I fucking LOVE that movie.

[Erk]

[InkStrider]

[bionic]

I'm not like this. I might find it a bit irksome.

Hence why I didn't say all. To each their own.

[717495]

What compels you to think it's an ethical description?
Why do you think it's a description of internal processes overall when he gives a clear distinction between two introverted processes?

It's obvious, is arrested at sensation, how it views the qualities, uses a linear-imaginative process to discern the origins and future path of such impressions.

What/who are you addressing with this post exactly? Im assuming you are addressing me but Im not sure that we are on the same page. I dont think you understood quite what Jarno meant when he said subliminating with others but I wont speak for him.

No sorry ppl, Ni doesn't make u more awesome than others. It's just a constant mental state by way basic impressions are valued and ordered, like the other functions. So just cus ur cool psychic pokemon type, won't automatically make u Ni. Every person does this crap, even animals.

I think Ni just has a way more than Ne of assimilating these abstract perceptions to fit their own assumptions, together like puzzle blocks, so it makes u think you're psychic, when you're just being human like everyone else.

[InkStrider]

No sorry ppl, Ni doesn't make u more awesome than others. It's just a constant mental state by way basic impressions are valued and ordered, like the other functions. So just cus ur cool psychic pokemon type, won't automatically make u Ni. Every person does this crap, even animals.

I think Ni just has a way more than Ne of assimilating these abstract perceptions to fit their own assumptions, together like puzzle blocks, so it makes u think you're psychic, when you're just being human like everyone else.

Somebody seriously needs to rewrite the wikisocion description of Ni. Too many people are flocking over to Gamma/Beta because Ni is the cool prediction function, equating dislike/awkwardness in social situations to Fe PoLR, and being enneagram sp primary to Si.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Somebody seriously needs to rewrite the wikisocion description of Ni. Too many people are flocking over to Gamma/Beta because Ni is the cool prediction function, equating dislike/awkwardness in social situations to Fe PoLR, and being enneagram sp primary to Si.

With socionists it's the norm rather than the exception to assign fantastic superpowers to IEs/types, so wikisocion stands with the majority in presenting cartoonishly unreal figures.

[Red Villain]

No sorry ppl, Ni doesn't make u more awesome than others. It's just a constant mental state by way basic impressions are valued and ordered, like the other functions. So just cus ur cool psychic pokemon type, won't automatically make u Ni. Every person does this crap, even animals.

I think Ni just has a way more than Ne of assimilating these abstract perceptions to fit their own assumptions, together like puzzle blocks, so it makes u think you're psychic, when you're just being human like everyone else.

I didn't say it makes you "more awesome than others". Don't put words in my mouth. If you were paying attention to the thread would have seen my earlier post where I said :

"However, there is major defect that must be elucidated due to the overvaluation of this function which is a commonplace. Because does not rely on sense-perception itself but merely follows the implications imposed upon the conscious through sense-perception it may very well lead itself into a incorrect postulate for the very reason that it abstracts from reality rather than relying on it directly.

[Aiss]

Somebody seriously needs to rewrite the wikisocion description of Ni. Too many people are flocking over to Gamma/Beta because Ni is the cool prediction function, equating dislike/awkwardness in social situations to Fe PoLR, and being enneagram sp primary to Si.

lol if you think wikisocion is overdone, have a look at intjf.

personally i think that description is at least better than half of what is said on this forum, although there used to be a better one hidden somewhere at wiki prior to the crash. i especially liked how it started, "perceives the world primarily through imagination", primarily being the keyword, not just having imagination or whatever shit someone will bitch about in a second without reading through. anyway that is the essence of dominance imo, aiming at capturing the same as i quoted earlier in this thread. which is still the basis for talk, no matter how much people like to ignore it when it suits them.

[InkStrider]

With socionists it's the norm rather than the exception to assign fantastic superpowers to IEs/types, so wikisocion stands with the majority in presenting cartoonishly unreal figures.

Indeed. As suggested, in-depth case studies would be of better use in aiding type-identification.

personally i think that description is at least better than half of what is said on this forum, although there used to be a better one hidden somewhere at wiki prior to the crash. i especially liked how it started, "perceives the world primarily through imagination", primarily being the keyword, not just having imagination or whatever shit someone will bitch about in a second without reading through. anyway that is the essence of dominance imo, aiming at capturing the same as i quoted earlier in this thread. which is still the basis for talk, no matter how much people like to ignore it when it suits them.

What does it mean to "perceive the world primarily through imagination"? To what extent does the Ni ego live in their imaginations in comparison to Si egos?

[Crispy]

: The main value of the world is the infinite and abundant reign of personal imagination. This imagination will never grow boring because with its help new ideas, suggestions, and images appear so magically and easily. Imagination makes it possible to delve into the darkness of the past and the mist of the distant future, to grasp the world in its entirety, to capture the dynamics and tendencies of main events, and to predict the final result.

[Aiss]

≠ imagination. sigh.

thank you for proving my point with bitching before reading with comprehension.

[Aiss]

Haha. I was just being sarcastic.

Serious response: I don't think "perceives the world primarily through imagination" is uniquely characteristic of ; if anything, that would apply to Pi in general IMO.

um, in context of jung's introverted sensing vs introverted intuition contrast? that seems to be the difference...

[strrrng]

any reference to imagination is bound to occlude the point. Ni is about balancing implicit processes; 'time' is only a factor because there's no other way to organize aspects of situations without interfering with their occurrence.

example: at the restaurant today, this LSE-Si starts grunting around, complaining about there being too many servers scheduled for the evening shift, using misleading tactics to secure his position. an LSI-Ti and I notice this and exchange casual remarks about the effect of the energy he's putting out; he assures me that I'll come to better see where each person 'fits in the act,' and I confirm that such people always end up fucking themselves. throughout the ordeal, I sit back, watching, letting him foolishly grope for approval and whatnot, knowing how this certain manager will react in light of the servers present and energy of the day (dreary rain and moderate business); and so when he loses his shift for that night, my reaction is an indifferent shrug.

not much imagination or prophetic deliberation -- because trends show themselves when you interact with things from a state of watchful responsiveness, which is Pi in a nutshell.

[Beautiful sky]

One sentence describes it all...almost everything that an Ni says has some hint of prophecy.

"The kingdom of God is coming."

Just read Crazed's posts on how he evaluates the new leaders of the forum.

[Erk]

Why am I finding myself agreeing with Maritsa33, even slightly?

[Korpsy Knievel]

Why am I finding myself agreeing with Maritsa33, even slightly?

Because she's paraphrasing Jung, and managing not to completely fuck it up for once.

[Beautiful sky]

Why am I finding myself agreeing with Maritsa33, even slightly?

Because I'm right and in the past, you've wanted to prove something and that blinded you from reading and understanding my posts and now, that I've posted something personal an observable, you agree with me.

[Erk]

I think you have mistaken me for somebody else.

[Sam Rockwell]

The "Across the Universe" video reminds me of this one. Ni!

[rat1]

Why am I finding myself agreeing with Maritsa33, even slightly?

Either you've gotten smarter or she has

[InvisibleJim]

Every description I've found sounds like it was written by someone who had been fasting in a secluded cave for three days prior to its composition. Since 1/4 of the types have it in their egos, it can't be THAT weird. Can I get a description in normal language of what it feels like to use, and what it looks like in others? I'm caught between Ne and Ni in typing myself, and need something to go on.

It's not that hard to describe. Merely most of the people who describe it don't understand that all it is is juggling intuition (the movement of ideas) towards a single identifiable method that is separate from the personality of the individual to introspect and review it. This gives the user a healthy understanding of the limitations and paradoxes inherent to the idea/box. This contrasts with Ne where the user takes the idea and then projects the idea outwards into the environment to identify 'things which follow' from it.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Ne- seeing potential ideas/opportunities, where things are headed.
Ni - interpreting where ideas come from, the true essence of an opportunity, where time and force (Se) are best spent.

As someone weak in Ni, I often come up with multiple ideas, try to finish them all, without much conscious effort thinking which activity is best to spend my time in. Sayings like 'It's better to show up on-time, than be fully prepared' have helped me grow tremendously.

Ni-egos are great at discovering WHY someone comes up with a particular idea. They can understand the entity of a person.

[GuavaDrunk]

The "Across the Universe" video reminds me of this one. Ni!

She looks sick. I can empathise w/ the pov though.