Some possible examples of famous/celebrity IEIs-INFps

[Expat]

INFp is one of the types I have the most difficulty identifying, so the following typings are even more tentative than the others - -


Elagabalus, Emperor of Rome 218-22 (I'm not sure what else he could be, though)




Ludwig II, King of Bavaria 1864-86




Walt Disney




George IV, King of England




Ed Wood



Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London (and possibly the Devil)



I found him almost impossible to type according to a general impression of his personality. But according to quadra values and dichotomies, INFp seemed the best fit.


Napoleon III, Emperor of the French 1852-70

[Scrummy]

I'm not familiar enough with the Bavarian to comment, but I think you may have something with Walt Disney. He V.I.'s out as one pretty well, actually. Elagabalus... we probably don't know enough about him to type him with any true degree of accuracy.

I'll add a few of my own:

James Taylor


Magda Olivero (Italian opera singer, considered by many to be the last verismo soprano)

"One has to find the exact facial. expression for what one is saying and singing. If one just sings, without putting in any heart or soul, it remains just beautiful singing and not a soul that sings!"

Eva Cassidy (Vocalist)


Watch her in action here.

Ralph

[dreamer]

Princess Diana

(pretend there's a picture here, we all know what she looks like)

[science as magic]

LOL BUTTERS! I have been trying to figure his type out recently. Back on topic... someone once suggested Søren Kierkegaard to me as a possible infp. I tend to agree with that assessment. Ralph does not seem infp to me however.

[FDG]

I'd say INFj for Kierkegaard.

[Scrummy]

Hey... Butters is INFp. Also... I think Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes is, too:

Tom Robbins? The fella certainly writes like an INFp.

I've only read Even Cowgirls Get the Blues, but his biography seems somewhat INFp - went in for journalism, but left due to "discipline problems"; wanted to write poetry, then became a writer. Course... he looks more ISTp.

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

Kurt Cobain (Nirvana)




Jim Morrison (The Doors)






And Butters is INFp!!!<3<3<3 God I love Butters.

[Rick]

Expat, what are your reasons for Walt Disney being IEI? My version so far is ESE.

[Expat]

Expat, what are your reasons for Walt Disney being IEI? My version so far is ESE.

I think many INFps can be romantic drifters, people who follow their dream and vision, drifting more or less aimlessly (apart from following their dream) while very unrealistic in practical matters such as money - their PoLR. Then they often resort to their emotional skills to get help from others. Ed Wood is such a case.

When I read about Disney's life - - from the very beginnings - he was precisely such a person, a sort of Ed Wood, with two differences: first, he was immensely more talented in expressing his visions in a way others would understand and appreciate, and second, he completely relied on his brother Roy for everything and anything related to money management. It was also his brother who helped Disney get his first job in an animation studio when he was drifting. He only started his own studio after Roy agreed to handle the financial matters for him.

There are other reasons to doubt ESFj, such as - as described by his wife -his indifference to food.

I think Disney was an extremely talented INFp, and he often said that he did not care about money, only about his vision -- of course that doesn't really work in the real world, but he had his brother to keep his feet more or less on the ground.

[Expat]

Since we were talking about Pol Pot in the ENFj thread, I remembered:

Norodom Sihanouk, on-off King, Prime Minister and Head of State of Cambodia in several different political incarnations

[Rick]

Okay, I'll read up more on Disney sometime soon. My impression of him, though, was that a general love of life was more definitive about his life and work than his imaginative qualities and fantasizing. Hence, the way I interpreted his work was through a desire to make people happy, love life, and have fun (an ESE type message) -- in this case, through the means of cartoons, movies, and entertainment parks. Disney's imaginative qualities I interpreted as a tool to achieve the greater goal of making people happy, and not an end in itself.

If he were IEI I guess I would expect to see a lot more emphasis on "meaning" -- i.e. movies and art that would provoke soul searching in viewers. Plus, I'd expect to see more dramatism and romantic themes (emotions tied to abstract meanings and causes rather than to concrete things and experiences as in Alpha Quadra).

[Expat]

Well that is difficult to say without trying to get into Disney's mind. I have read about him but not that deeply. I think the influence of his brother Roy with regard to steering Disney toward commercial projects has been much overlooked. For instance, something closer to what you mean could have been Fantasia in 1940, which was a commercial disaster at the time.

I think that my impression of Walt Disney as a sort of "very talented Ed Wood kept on the ground by his brother" has something to it. I can see your point about ESE though.

The problem is that in socionics it is possible to type people both by traits and by motivations. In Disney's case, I think his traits are more visible and things like his total (and self-acknowledged) inability to handle money, and his drifting as a young man, as well as a minor thing like his indifferent to food, point towards IEI. But perhaps a deeper analysis of his motivations and how he saw his work might indicate ESE instead.

[Rick]

Well that is difficult to say without trying to get into Disney's mind. I have read about him but not that deeply. I think the influence of his brother Roy with regard to steering Disney toward commercial projects has been much overlooked. For instance, something closer to what you mean could have been Fantasia in 1940, which was a commercial disaster at the time.

I think that my impression of Walt Disney as a sort of "very talented Ed Wood kept on the ground by his brother" has something to it. I can see your point about ESE though.

The problem is that in socionics it is possible to type people both by traits and by motivations. In Disney's case, I think his traits are more visible and things like his total (and self-acknowledged) inability to handle money, and his drifting as a young man, as well as a minor thing like his indifferent to food, point towards IEI. But perhaps a deeper analysis of his motivations and how he saw his work might indicate ESE instead.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. I would like to develop this topic till we achieve some clarity. I obviously try to "get inside peoples' head" and actually feel pretty confident doing so, but the tools for judging a person's motivation must be better elaborated. Ultimately, a correct typing should provide a "correct" interpretation of the person's motives, traits, and consistent behavior. I think it is possible to judge whether our interpretation is "correct" by comparing it to associates' and historians' views of the person. I think accurate sources of information can be found on several different levels:
- autobiographies, memoirs, etc. (these show how the person interprets his life and prioritizes his traits and achievements)
- recollections of close friends and family
- biographies
- various posthumous articles, especially those that give tribute to the person (these are best for understanding the person's lasting cultural influence and his legacy in the minds of the people)

I think we can recognize incorrect type interpretations if they bring to the forefront traits that the sources above see as secondary. For example, we could type Timoshenko as IEE by her ideological "war" against the former government system and its suppression of personal freedom (an anti- and program), thus interpreting her as a sort of George Orwell figure. But then we look at the kinds of sources I list above and see that none or very few of them found her ideological contribution to the anti-authoritarian movement to be the most important thing about her. They focus instead on completely different traits. That would be a clue that we might be mistaken.

[implied]

probably pablo sarasate, basque violin virtuoso.

[mimisor]

LOL BUTTERS! I have been trying to figure his type out recently. Back on topic... someone once suggested Søren Kierkegaard to me as a possible infp. I tend to agree with that assessment. Ralph does not seem infp to me however.

phbbft, Kierkegaard was a clear-cut INTj. I've been reading a book on his life recently and i remained with that impression.
When he proposed to Regine Olsen, and then he got into deep thoughts, canceled the marriage, considering that he was incapable to make her happy.


???

what kind of weird behaviour is this, damn.

a p type would definetely go with the flow, ya know what i mean?
but he just refused to be happy, provoking his own sufferings.

(this what he explicitly wrote in his Journal, reflecting back on his decision)

[mimisor]

Actually, that sort of push/pull behavior is exactly the kind of behavior an INFp would engage in relationships.

It was nothing like that. He broke it off with her definitevely! And without absolutely no justification.
Then treated her with indifference, knowing that's the only way she would finally forgot him and marry another.

Then of course that he suffered greatly, but he decided.

Later, after years, in "Journals" explained that he was such a melancholic nature and would provoke his own sufferings.

And after that, he remained a bachelor.


So, in short, this is nothing of the behaviour of INFps,
=p

[FDG]

Actually, that sort of push/pull behavior is exactly the kind of behavior an INFp would engage in relationships.

It was nothing like that. He broke it off with her definitevely! And without absolutely no justification.
Then treated her with indifference, knowing that's the only way she would finally forgot him and marry another.

Then of course that he suffered greatly, but he decided.

Later, after years, in "Journals" explained that he was such a melancholic nature and would provoke his own sufferings.

And after that, he remained a bachelor.


So, in short, this is nothing of the behaviour of INFps,
=p

Another INTj of the "I can't type anybody for the life of me" legacy. You are clearly wrong, and the person you quoted is cleraly right, but you sill muddle the truth with thougts that are the inverse of "clear".

BTW, Kierkegaard was INFj.

[mimisor]

Another INTj of the "I can't type anybody for the life of me" legacy. You are clearly wrong, and the person you quoted is cleraly right, but you sill muddle the truth with thougts that are the inverse of "clear".

BTW, Kierkegaard was INFj.

bleh, mister "you're wrong", that's not an argument. Come with real arguments, please, if you want me to take your opinions in consideration.


ok, some things that made me think Kierkegaard was INTj, apart from the "weird" romantic attitudes (for the outsiders, of course).

I have never confided in anyone. By being an author I have in a sense made the public my confidant. But in respect of my relation to the public I must, once again, make posterity my confidant. The same people who are there to laugh at one cannot very well be made one's confidant.

— Søren Kierkegaard, Journals[5] (4 November 1847

Case in point. INTjs are secretive people and most often do not share their thoughts or worries with others, not even friends. (because they do not feel it like a necessity). This is exactly the "type" of person Kierkegaard was.

In his writing and actions, Kierkegaard expresses a profound disgust with all of official society, its meaningless rituals, its pomp and ceremony, and all its pretensions at cultivation. He sees that religion, which he considers a thoroughly private matter, has become merely an instrument of the state. Human society around him is at once absurd and brutal.

Kierkegaard’s philosophy, however, emerging out of these tortured circumstances, assumes a thoroughly cynical, elitist, and misanthropic character.

The vehement and uncompromising attack on (what he called)"Christendom", about a religion (Christianity) that has lost its initial meaning, again points to INTj. ( i think we both agree, Kierkegaard was at least an IN**, really i doubt INFjs or INFps would focus on critizicing the Church organization at the time, and declaring that established ways of thinking and acting are "phony", let's be serious people). The dislike of the "regular world" is so INTj.

other reviews

From beginning to end, Kierkegaard’s writings are marked by an intensity of argument and expression that can only be explained—if "explain" is the right word—by his uncompromisable passion for the truth. He was convinced that almost everyone—maybe everyone except Jesus Christ and a few spiritual "virtuosi" who have honestly followed Jesus—had settled for something less than the truth. Kierkegaard’s many readers are fascinated, perhaps even spiritually titillated, by his pressing every question to the limits, and then beyond the limits. The pressing, the fearless exploration, never ends.

to the death (the one line i put in bold) damn


I hope i was eloquent enough

/the end

[Creepy-pokeball]

I was on my way home today and listening to random radio stations as per usual. The local station discovered something freaky and it reminded me of this forum. They have asked several music guests the same question over the past few years. The asked who was their most disliked/asshole-ish musician in the biz. They hit on an odd connection. Multiple people stated Anthony Kiedis. I remember that the dudes from Maroon 5 and Goo Goo Dolls stated this. I forgot who else. Anywho, I also remember a few years back that Anthony Kiedis admitted in an interveiw that he was an asshole and "was changing." Did he actually change? And why is he an asshole? :/

[Kristiina]

There was no celebrity INFp thread (or I'm just blind), so I'm posting it here.
Colin Farrel
Just look at that Scrummy-face.



And I just had to add this:

[Joy]

I don't see it. I see ENxj.

[Creepy-pokeball]

There was no celebrity INFp thread (or I'm just blind), so I'm posting it here.
Colin Farrel
Just look at that Scrummy-face.



And I just had to add this:

Ive always wanted to decorate his eye brows like a fireplace mantle with vases, pictures and dinner plates

[Joy]

he looks like a brunette version of brad pitt

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

he looks like a brunette version of brad pitt

i can see that

[FDG]

I kinda have an analogous body morphism. So I can say ENxj.

[Scrummy]

I actually think the guy might be an introverted sensor. ISTp, perhaps. I saw him on "Inside the Actor's Studio" or a similar show a while back - his general movements and the way he spoke was considerably toned down from his "public" image - namely, obsessively obscene and obnoxious. If I had to choose, I'd say Si>Se and Te>Ti for the guy.

[Scrummy]

Oh yeah, and I can definitely see him as Fe>Fi.

[anndelise]

I actually think the guy might be an introverted sensor. ISTp, perhaps. I saw him on "Inside the Actor's Studio" or a similar show a while back - his general movements and the way he spoke was considerably toned down from his "public" image - namely, obsessively obscene and obnoxious. If I had to choose, I'd say Si>Se and Te>Ti for the guy.

Colin = isfp

[Animal]

I actually think the guy might be an introverted sensor. ISTp, perhaps. I saw him on "Inside the Actor's Studio" or a similar show a while back - his general movements and the way he spoke was considerably toned down from his "public" image - namely, obsessively obscene and obnoxious. If I had to choose, I'd say Si>Se and Te>Ti for the guy.

Colin = isfp

I was close.

[anndelise]

I actually think the guy might be an introverted sensor. ISTp, perhaps. I saw him on "Inside the Actor's Studio" or a similar show a while back - his general movements and the way he spoke was considerably toned down from his "public" image - namely, obsessively obscene and obnoxious. If I had to choose, I'd say Si>Se and Te>Ti for the guy.

Colin = isfp

I was close.

[tangent]I wasn't the only one who was surprised at how much he looks like my bf, Richard. If i can ever figure out how to work a camera properly enough to get his picture before he reverts into shy mode, i'll post it for your forum experiment thing...even though he's not a forum member.[/tangent]

[JuJu]

Percy Bysshe Shelley, poet (1792-1822)

[Animal]

I actually think most of them are ISFp... they're just adorable. I just want to squeeze each and every one of them, softly and tenderly.

[mimisor]

hah, and i thought mostly ISTps were emo, i mean wearing those black clothes, dark make-up and a reluctant attitude something like "fuck off" (no need that they say it explicitly, you can very well deduce that by yourself - that "'you can go fuck yourself")

[mimisor]

haha, yeah I’d see ISTps as more of a gothic type, though there are probably a few emo ones.

Emos are very emotional, listen to soft depressing acoustic music, and are always talking about there feelings... that’s why I figured INFp, but your probably right on the ISFp thing, they do seem keen on their fashion

yeah, that 's what i meant about ISTps - gothic style, not emo.

[Expat]

Marcus Cocceius Nerva, Emperor of Rome 96-98, the first of the "5 good emperors"





Ludwig II, King of Bavaria 1864 - 86, patron of Wagner





Talleyrand, the "Prince of Diplomats", French statesman





Napoleon III, Emperor of the French 1852-71




Ed Wood, film director-producer-writer-actor





Walt Disney Rick thinks he was ESE, and I can see the case, but looking at his life as a whole I keep seeing IEI




Julius Nyerere, first president of Tanzania




Robert Mugabe, president of Zimbabwe




The Duke of Windsor, previously King Edward VIII during 1936




Gandhi




Richard Bach, author of Jonathan Livingston Seagull and Illusions - - although from VI I wouldn't have guessed so.





Paulo Coelho, Brazilian author



H. G. Wells, one of the founders of science fiction




Anaïs Nin , writer, mainly of diaries









Truman Capote

[Animal]

Isha always has interesting thoughts.

Gelsey Kirkland - ballet dancer (it's impossible to find a pic of her; she was apparently very camera shy - here's her with Baryshnikov who was probably ENFj):


Francis Ford Coppola - Director


I'm unfortunately not as familiar with most of Expat's picks as I porbably should be.

[Exodus]

Why not ENFj for Coelho?

[Expat]

Why not ENFj for Coelho?

I get a more IP than EJ feeling from him, but I can't make a tight case.

[Expat]

Hmm, Coppola, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of that, but the way Marlon Brando describes their interactions when shooting Apocalypse Now in his memoirs makes that plausible. A comparison with Kubrick is interesting - they were/are both very talented directors in bringing a unique vision to the screen, but Kubrick was much more concerned with keeping the movie working from a budgetary point of view, where Coppola has a record of losing control over such matters, many times.

[Expat]

Ray Bradbury, author