Some possible examples of famous/celebrity EIEs/ENFjs

[Expat]

Trajan, Emperor of Rome 98-117




Julian "the Apostate" , Emperor of Rome 361-63 (but possibly ENTj)




Elizabeth I , Queen of England




George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham (if anyone has read The Three Musketeers, that's him)




Franklin Delano Roosevelt, US president




John F. Kennedy, US president




Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, French President 1974-81




Nelson Mandela




Anwar-al-Sadat, President of Egypt 1970-81



Cary Grant




Saloth Sar aka Pol Pot, leader of the Khmer Rouge




Simon Bolivar




Hugh Hefner




Yasser Arafat




Gamal Abdel Nasser

[Creepy-pokeball]

Well wtf! Where's my crown?

[Expat]

I think you may have missed the point.

Besides, from the chat we had at some point you seemed more INFj.

[Rocky]

Expat, I've wondered how could you type all these people who have been dead for over a thousand years?

Anyway, I would say Nelson Mandela was an INTP, not ENFJ.

[Expat]

Expat, I've wondered how could you type all these people who have been dead for over a thousand years?

The same way we try to type people whom we don't know personally but about whom we have information -- based on what we know of their lives, their personalities, as described by themselves or people who knew them personally.*shrugs*.

After all, we both think that Julius Caesar was probably ENTj, don't we? It may be incorrect but it's not based on nothing. I'm not just guessing. These are all people about whom I have read enough to get an idea (correct or incorrect) of their likely types.

There isn't an awful lot of personal information about Trajan, but there is something.

As for Julian, there are tons of information, lots of letters and other works, besides descriptions by eyewitnesses - he's one of the best-documented individuals of the ancient world.

Time means nothing as such. What counts is the information available. I agree with you about Alexander the Great, but that is not the case of every single individual of the ancient world.

I'm not a specialist on each of the individuals I listed, but I do know enough about them to risk a typing - which may be wrong, of course. But I pretty much doubt that any of those I listed was an ISTp.

Anyway, I would say Nelson Mandela was an INTP, not ENFJ.

Mandela's is almost blinding in his interviews. And, by all accounts, including his own, as President of South Africa - an executive position, as in the US - he could not and would not concern himself with the actual governing ( ) and concentrated on public relations ( ). He left the actual running of the governent to his then deputy, today the president, Thabo Mbeki, INTj in my opinion.

I'm not "sure" of these typings in a manner -- I think there is a good case for all of them. If anyone disagrees and has solid information, we can discuss it.

[Expat]

A general remark --

As I have stated, I write these lists mainly for my own personal amusement, and in the hope that perhaps someone will know enough about any of these individuals to say "that's bullshit!" and tell me why, as Rocky did with this case for Napoleon as ISTp.

I'm a history buff. I have concrete information about all the individuals I have listed - even of people who died almost 2000 years ago. In some cases you have more information, in others, less *shrugs*. But I disagree with those who would say that it is impossible to even suggest a typing. This only shows ignorance of the available evidence.

[Rocky]

But I pretty much doubt that any of those I listed was an ISTp.

Did I say that?

[Expat]

Did I say that?

No, of course you didn't!

All I meant is that, even though I may be wrong about their being ENFj, I think I didn't get it so wrong as to have mistaken an ISTp for an ENFj! I believe my typings are at least close to the correct one.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I think you may have missed the point.

Besides, from the chat we had at some point you seemed more INFj.

Naw Expat, I was joking. You should have seen Diana and I last night in chat. If the theory has any semblence of reality, we are similar in it, because we were unintentionally mimicing each other in agreeance. That said, I still want Julian's crown :/

[Scrummy]

George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham (if anyone has read The Three Musketeers, that's him)

The expression in the eyes reminds me of quite a few ENFjs I know. My roomate has that look, too.

[Expat]

VI from a painting?

If by Van Dyck, it's certainly possible

[FDG]

I have trouble VI-ing ENFjs.

NF types, generally speaking.

Probably because they do not hang out in the same places as I do.

[Creepy-pokeball]

That and/or theyre extremely well adapted at emulating others.

[Expat]

That and/or theyre extremely well adapted at emulating others.

I agree. Except for very "loud" and "impulsive" ENFps, and very quiet and kind INFjs, I have the greatest difficulty differentiating the NF types.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Ive always wondered if it is a survival or defense mechanism. Id lay odds that NFs are generally more likely to feign (act dead or uninterested or intentfully disconnected or...etc )when needed. On they other hand, their hypersensitivity in some situations seems to provoke the opposing response. It's almost like flight or fight on crack lol.

[Rick]

Re: Pol Pot

Interesting. I had a discussion with Lytov at one point about Pol Pot. I guessed he was EIE, based primarily on photos, while Lytov, who had done lots of research, claimed he was LSI. Since then I've read more about him and still see a case for EIE. I'd like to hear your reasons.

[Expat]

I have the two best biographies of Pol Pot in English: Brother Number One by David Chandler and Pol Pot - History of a Nightmare by Philip Short.

We all agree that he's Beta. I certainly can see the case for ISTj and I would suspect that it's based on Pol Pot "staying out of the limelight" and being secretive for a very long time, like Stalin. I think that can be explained largely by the Khmer culture with its Buddhist characteristics where self-effacement is a virtue and the way to gain respect (points made in both books).

I think he was more likely ENFj because the one thing everyone who ever met him agrees on - at all stages of his life - is that he was extremely charming and charismatic in personal contact. Even Prince (on-off King of Cambodia) Sihanouk, who I'm convinced is INFp, said that about Pol Pot, which is not how an INFp would likely describe an ISTj.

Also, he was not a Stalin-like, ISTj bureaucratic dictator - - Pol Pot was concerned with his "vision", not with details. When his goals were not achieved, be blamed those he had delegated to carry out the details.

Up to the end, his chief weapon was emotional manipulation - - in the last major interview he gave, before his death (unfortunately it's not fully available), his arguments were of the sort, "my conscience is clear - - if you look at me, can you say I am a savage person?" etc - -

In a nutshell, the impression that everyone had of his personality is of a engaging, charming person in close contact -- that was his chief characteristic according to everyone. His "rule" of Cambodia was more based on pursuing his grand visions than getting involved in annoying details.

I could quote lots of eyewitness descriptions of his personality from the books, but that would be too much work and take too much time.

[Rick]

Thanks. Your details confirm exactly my impressions from the bits and pieces I had read about him and from the photos, where he seems to display dramatism and a large emotional range. Plus, the "cause" for which his regime did what it did was terribly abstract and illogical.

Lytov's argument is that in actuality Pol Pot shared his authority with Khiey Samfan (sp.?), who was the theoretician who got off clean; he didn't know that his grandiose plans would lead to such destruction. Pol Pot, Lytov says, was the quiet implementer behind the scenes who didn't lay claim to the role of an ideologist or orator.

Is this supported by what you've read?

[Expat]

Lytov's argument is that in actuality Pol Pot shared his authority with Khiey Samfan (sp.?), who was the theoretician who got off clean; he didn't know that his grandiose plans would lead to such destruction. Pol Pot, Lytov says, was the quiet implementer behind the scenes who didn't lay claim to the role of an ideologist or orator.

Is this supported by what you've read?

You mean Khieu Samphan.

I totally disagree with that interpretation, and I think that anyone who has read any books on Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge would, too.

First, Pol Pot was definitely an orator -- to the very end, without any real hopes of getting back to power, he was still holding seminars in his jungle base.

Second, no one would agree that Pol Pot shared his authority with Khieu Samphan in any real way. The latter wrote a PhD thesis in economics in Paris at the time, and more or less laid the theoretical basis (if any) for the Khmer Rouge idea that, in Cambodia, the urban population contributed nothing to the economy.

But there was no question of who was the real leader -- Khieu Samphan seems to be INTj IMO; he provided the theoretical framework but was not in any way the leader. When Prince Sihanouk resigned from the position of symbolic head of state in the Khmer Rouge regime, Pol Pot appointed Khieu Samphan to that position, but again, as a symbol -- later, during the Vietnamese occupation of Cambodia, when the Khmer Rouge tried to show a more "presentable face" to the outside world than Pol Pot's, Khieu Samphan was chosen as its major representative. But he remained "Brother Number Five" to Pol Pot's "Brother Number One".

To the very end, it was Pol Pot who had the power to put others to death, even as a rebel leader in the jungle.

[Rick]

Okay, sounds good.
By the way, I am now convinced of Yulia Timoshenko's type (LIE). Everything clicks together.

[Expat]

Why? We hadn't discussed her -- had we?

[Rick]

No, we'd just mentioned her name. I didn't know her type at the time, but you said she was a classic LIE.

[Expat]

Oh yeah. I think she's the most obvious ENTj woman around one can think of.

[Rick]

Yes. In fact, she's somewhat hysterical and displays extreme type traits. At the same time, being complementary to the Ukrainian mentality, very many Ukrainians don't recognize the hysteria and just inexplicably love and trust her. The situation reminds me quite a bit of ******, actually. I don't like it, and I don't understand the abstract cause that she is so doggedly pursuing. I fear a hidden fascist philosophy or nationalism or something like that. By the way, what is most memorable about Timoshenko (that's my new catch phrase these days ) is her drivenness, her extreme achievement motivation, and her dogged pursuit of a cause. During all of this she displays a positive, you-can-do-it attitude, as opposed to the EIE leaders we know of who are so aware of the "gravity of their calling."

[Expat]

The situation reminds me quite a bit of ******, actually. I don't like it, and I don't understand the abstract cause that she is so doggedly pursuing. I fear a hidden fascist philosophy or nationalism or something like that.

Continuing a bit the thread hijack - -

If she's LIE, I very much doubt that there is any abstract cause or any hidden fascism or nationalism behind it. Her original drive was to make money, which she did (helped by the shady situation in early post-communism Ukraine). Having achieved that to the limit of her satisfaction or possibilities, she turned her drive into something else ie politics. LIEs do not dream of getting rich in order to enjoy an easy life. They'd get bored very soon. Her present goal is to achieve political power either to make sure that her fortune is safe, or to focus her drive into something else. I'd be very surprised if she had any fascist goal.

[Fairy-Wilbury]

Nelson Mandela looks like not I think..
don't know about others..

[mimisor]

Chester (the vocalsit of Linkin Park)





He's the only one i could think as for now.

If you know other ENFjs, point them out.

[ChristiRB]

*scratches head* Uhhhhh ... what?

[Dioklecian]

[Raver]

Chester (the vocalist of Linkin Park)

He's the only one i could think as for now.

If you know other ENFjs, point them out.

You are very skilled at V.I., using the picture you displayed he strikes me as a definite ENFj if I compare him to a friend of mine.

[mimisor]

Thanks Traveler

He too, looks almost identical with someone i know, not only the look, but the expression, that i couldn't ignore.

[Ms. Kensington]

lol john galliano. hahahhahha

[Gronau]

http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil...cs/himmler.jpg

http://www.codoh.com/graphics/himmler.gif

Himmler is defintely no ENFj! He is ISxJ, more likely F.

[Rocky]

To be honset, neither Kyle nor Stan have distictive personalities. The only one really typable is Cartman (Te). The creaters of the show said that originally they made Stan and Kyle to represent the two of them, but later realized that they both were really more like Cartman.

[MySaviour]

Michael Jackson

ISFp.

[mimisor]

Alex Band from The Calling


Is this videoclip..."Wherever you will go"..if you know it

[mimisor]

I'll post here some other people who where nominated as ENFjs (not by me) on other threads.

Bono - the lead singer of U2





Reese Witherspoon




Buffy the Vampire Slayer




Nicole Kidman

[Park]

Oprah Winfrey

[Park]

Michael Jackson ...

ISFp.

Ditto.

[Rick]

Michael Jackson

I agree. My page with him has a link to an interesting paper comparing him to Freddie Mercury.
http://www.socionics.us/celebrities/eie.shtml