Suggestive 5th function and relationships

[Creepy-]

5th function and relationships.

Maybe this has something to do with why relations of activity are popular in relationships? (I got the idea from INFp profile that says they may marry for money.)

It seems we might be more aware that we like "help" in the 5th function.

= Marry for money and will power.
= Marry for looks and pleasure.

= Marry for knowlege and practicality.
= Marry for depth of thought and insight into things.

= Marry for enthusiasm and happiness.
= Marry for moral support and human insight.

= Marry for insight and awareness of opportunity.
= Marry for foresight and spirituality.

[discourse]

I like your talking, Transignet, for how it makes sence. And I am with you that the 5th function plays a large role in relationships and problems which may appear in it and also that 5th function is the key into dualisation as been sayd somwhere elsse.

[ConcreteButterfly]

5th function and relationships.

Maybe this has something to do with why relations of activity are popular in relationships? (I got the idea from INFp profile that says they may marry for money.)

It seems we might be more aware that we like "help" in the 5th function.

= Marry for money and will power.
= Marry for looks and pleasure.

= Marry for knowlege and practicality.
= Marry for depth of thought and insight into things.

= Marry for enthusiasm and happiness.
= Marry for moral support and human insight.

= Marry for insight and awareness of opportunity.
= Marry for foresight and spirituality.

This is interesting. I do think it has some truth to it. Perhaps 5th leads to marriage, and the 6th prevents divorce, lol.


= Marry for money and will power, stay for moral support and human insight. (ILI)
= Marry for money and will power, for depth of thought and insight into things. (IEI)
= Marry for looks and pleasure, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)
= Marry for looks and pleasure, stay for enthusiasm and happiness. (ILE)

= Marry for knowledge and practicality, stay for looks and pleasure. (EII)
= Marry for knowledge and practicality, stay for foresight and spirituality. (ESI)
= Marry for depth of thought and insight into things, stay for insight and awareness of opportunity. (ESE)
= Marry for depth of thought and insight into things, stay for money and will power. (EIE)

= Marry for enthusiasm and happiness, stay for foresight and spirituality. (LSI)
= Marry for enthusiasm and happiness, stay for looks and pleasure. (LII)
= Marry for moral support and human insight, stay for money and will power. (LIE)
= Marry for moral support and human insight, stay for insight and awareness of opportunity. (LSE)

= Marry for insight and awareness of opportunity, stay for moral support and human insight. (SLI)
= Marry for insight and awareness of opportunity, stay for depth of thought and insight into things (SEI)
= Marry for foresight and spirituality, stay for enthusiasm and happiness. (SLE)
= Marry for foresight and spirituality, stay for knowledge and practicality. (SEE)

[Beautiful sky]

interesting. it seems to be accurate in my case.

[consentingadult]

@ConcreteButterfly: it's definitively not a bad start although some defs do not quite capture the essense of the matter. E.g. about IEE you (and the OP) say :"marry for looks and pleasure". I can see how it could look like that to an external observer, but it isn't what IEEs are actually about. Words such as "balance", "comfort" etc. would be better. Ultimately what is happening in a dual relationship, is that the IEE is freed from stress factors, in particular stress factors that rise from having to deal with the details of the material aspects of life. I myself wrote about it:

"where IEEs need to be relaxed first in order to be productive, EIIs need to be productive first in order to get relaxed. SLIs provide a relaxed and undemanding environment to IEEs, whereas LSEs provide a productive and smoothly operating environment to EIIs."

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...stive-and.html

[ConcreteButterfly]

@ConcreteButterfly: it's definitively not a bad start although some defs do not quite capture the essense of the matter. E.g. about IEE you (and the OP) say :"marry for looks and pleasure". I can see how it could look like that to an external observer, but it isn't what IEEs are actually about. Words such as "balance", "comfort" etc. would be better. Ultimately what is happening in a dual relationship, is that the IEE is freed from stress factors, in particular stress factors that rise from having to deal with the details of the material aspects of life. I myself wrote about it:

"where IEEs need to be relaxed first in order to be productive, EIIs need to be productive first in order to get relaxed. SLIs provide a relaxed and undemanding environment to IEEs, whereas LSEs provide a productive and smoothly operating environment to EIIs."

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...stive-and.html

I wasn't totally sold on "looks and pleasure" for Si either, but I wanted to be consistent. Let's change the words around a bit:


= Marry for comfort and balance, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)
= Marry for comfort and balance, stay for enthusiasm and social influence. (ILE)

"comfort and balance" doesn't quite capture the meaning either, I think :/
how about :

= Marry for calmness and sensual pleasure, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

What do you think?

Nice blog, btw. I'd read that article before, it's quite intriguing. I think you are right, productivity seems to be the "end goal" of an IEE, with comfort, or physical balance being the main obstacle. In my opinion IEEs don't know how to fully relax themselves or even notice that they are uncomfortable until it becomes unmanageable. Si egos consistently adjust their surroundings until they're optimal, which saves the IEE from having to do it. In particular, I think IEEs understate the effect of certain people on their physical condition, they're apt to take a chance on people using creative ethics in service of their dominant intuition. I'm guessing SLIs are far more selective of who gets close precisely because they're in tune with the connection between certain processes (including people) and their own comfort, and in turn their comfort and their productivity levels.

[Esaman]

First, the distinction and separation of what makes one marry and stay married seems artificial.
Second, the connection to the base function is by definition more deep, while creative and therefor the 6th have instrumental/means quality.That implies to me that you got the order backwards, but that of course depends on ones views on how marriage works.

[Suz]

I myself wrote about it:

"where IEEs need to be relaxed first in order to be productive, EIIs need to be productive first in order to get relaxed. SLIs provide a relaxed and undemanding environment to IEEs, whereas LSEs provide a productive and smoothly operating environment to EIIs."

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...stive-and.html

Love this.

Personally i relate to both sentiments, at least in my present situation.

[ConcreteButterfly]

That was insightful of you, ConcreteButterfly. There seems to be sth to it, going by 3rd paragraph.

You mean this?

The SLI's objective and creative motive is to find materials, localities, spaces, and actions that will engage and move the senses and produce proper sensations within people. The SLI is essentially "a person's person". However, SLIs are only keen on people from a distance, because people are objects varying in quality of nature. SLIs do not prefer doing much complicated analysis (subdued ) and rather enjoy the process of synthesising things they sense. They understand their entire world by identifying what causes pleasant and unpleasant reactions. When identifying these, the SLI feels a sense of power because this allows them to adapt and use objects (and people) as he or she feels need.

Yes, this is roughly what I was getting at. In a way, I think SLIs are more "zen like" in that they don't mentally separate themselves from their immediate environment (the realm of ). When they sit on a chair or talk with someone, they are that chair or that person, or rather the energy transfer that occurs between their bodies and the other, as perceived through their senses. Every action, location, space, person, thing around them affects their senses in a particular way and it's that which they identify with and that which they try to personalize, to perfect. IEEs don't do this, they instead identify with their own insights and somewhat suppress their sensations. IEEs can be lead astray by their intuitions and move towards objects that are uncomfortable, and away from those that are not. SLIs are more objective. They sense things directly, and repeatedly, and at different "pressure settings" (ie. physical distances, at different times, etc.) until they internally recognize the most comfortable point between themselves and the other. IEEs just dream up an idea about something, assume it to have certain properties and go after it. IEEs and SLIs basically are doing the same thing in different ways. Both want to experience pleasant sensations, SLIs use scientific trial and error, IEEs capitalize on the value of associative thinking, interchanging one experience for another based on its essential properties.

[consentingadult]

"comfort and balance" doesn't quite capture the meaning either, I think :/
how about :

= Marry for calmness and sensual pleasure, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

What do you think?

calmness, if understood as being freed of stress, would be a good word. In "sensual pleasure" the word sensual is right, but the word "pleasure" is actually a bit too lighthearted, way too Alpha-quadra, to describe what the IEE wants. I don't know a good word for it, so let me try to describe it, perhaps someone else knows how to summarize it better than I can:

There are these very very sparse moments that an IEE is freed from stress to an extent that physically they feel empty in a positive way: stress in an IEE translates into physical discomforts that the IEE typically will not notice until it is completely gone. This state, where all physical discomfort is completely gone, to the IEE is at the one hand a very simple state state devoid of value judgements (in emotional form, such a state is simply accepted for what it is), while at the same time it is experienced as a blissful state, which is why I wouldn't want to use the word "pleasure" to describe it. Such a state is too meaningful for an IEE to be described as "pleasure".

Does that make sense?

[ConcreteButterfly]

calmness, if understood as being freed of stress, would be a good word. In "sensual pleasure" the word sensual is right, but the word "pleasure" is actually a bit too lighthearted, way too Alpha-quadra, to describe what the IEE wants. I don't know a good word for it, so let me try to describe it, perhaps someone else knows how to summarize it better than I can:

There are these very very sparse moments that an IEE is freed from stress to an extent that physically they feel empty in a positive way: stress in an IEE translates into physical discomforts that the IEE typically will not notice until it is completely gone. This state, where all physical discomfort is completely gone, to the IEE is at the one hand a very simple state state devoid of value judgements (in emotional form, such a state is simply accepted for what it is), while at the same time it is experienced as a blissful state, which is why I wouldn't want to use the word "pleasure" to describe it. Such a state is too meaningful for an IEE to be described as "pleasure".

Does that make sense?

It does make sense. It seems like you're talking about the state Buddhist monks experience when meditating, or that kind of relaxation you feel just prior to falling asleep. I agree that "pleasure" doesn't really describe it. Stillness, maybe. IEEs seem to be out of alignment with their own bodies, and by extension, the rest of the material world, which may be generating some kind of subconscious fear of destruction. This would be manifested as muscular tension in the body, and possibly stress hormones in the brain, which could be overcompensated for by a positive conscious bias towards change. I'm guessing IEEs and ILE's love of novelty and change would be somewhat neutralized were they to achieve the kind of physical equanimity SLIs experience on a daily basis.


= Marry for calmness and sensual equanimity, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

= Marry for calmness and sensual tranquility, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

= Marry for calmness and sensual proportion, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

= Marry for calmness and sensual symmetry, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

*shrug* I don't know

[consentingadult]

It does make sense. It seems like you're talking about the state Buddhist monks experience when meditating, or that kind of relaxation you feel just prior to falling asleep. I agree that "pleasure" doesn't really describe it. Stillness, maybe. IEEs seem to be out of alignment with their own bodies, and by extension, the rest of the material world, which may be generating some kind of subconscious fear of destruction. This would be manifested as muscular tension in the body, and possibly stress hormones in the brain, which could be overcompensated for by a positive conscious bias towards change. I'm guessing IEEs and ILE's love of novelty and change would be somewhat neutralized were they to achieve the kind of physical equanimity SLIs experience on a daily basis.


= Marry for calmness and sensual equanimity, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

= Marry for calmness and sensual tranquility, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

= Marry for calmness and sensual proportion, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

= Marry for calmness and sensual symmetry, stay for knowledge and practicality. (IEE)

*shrug* I don't know

Well, you have a very good understanding of how it plays out in IEEs. Especially the muscular tension thing, which the IEE, unaware of the actual problem, indeed tries to fix by means of overcompensation, making matters worse.

As far as I'm concerned, sensual equanimity is probably the best term. I never heard of that word before, but I looked it up. It is important to stress that it is not "equanimity" (which seems to describe a psychological state), but above all its physical counterpart "sensual equanimity", i.e. an "equanimity of the body". When such a state is achieved, the mind is also at peace, but that's secondary.

I'm guessing IEEs and ILE's love of novelty and change would be somewhat neutralized were they to achieve the kind of physical equanimity SLIs experience on a daily basis.

Exactly, that's also what I said in my blog post:

" ..I in effect said that satisfaction of the Suggestive Function allows the individual to realize the agenda of their Base Function through their Mobilizing Function. It is a little bit more complicated than that: often fulfillment of the Suggestive Function leads to changes in the agenda of the Base function, in that it now sets more realistic, less grandiose goals. Ultimately these goals are less demanding of the Mobilizing Function. "

[consentingadult]

Ok I admit its the money paying the bills and niceties as well as husbands willpower to succeed in everything that keeps me with him in the stressful times.

But otherwise you feel the need to get out of there, is that what you are saying?

[suedehead]

Not really feeling it. People marry for variety of reasons.

[ConcreteButterfly]

changed the words around a bit based on Reinin's definitions:

= Marry for looks and power, stay to love and be a good person (ILI)
= Marry for looks and power, stay to understand and be competent (IEI)
= Marry for health and positive sensations, stay to keep my world in order (IEE)
= Marry for health and positive sensations, stay to be loved (ILE)

= Marry to put my world in order, stay for my health and positive sensations (EII)
= Marry to put my world in order, stay to maintain internal harmony (ESI)
= Marry to understand and be competent, stay to maintain external harmony (ESE)
= Marry to understand and be competent, stay for looks and power (EIE)

= Marry to be loved, stay to maintain internal harmony (LSI)
= Marry to be loved, stay for my health and positive sensations (LII)
= Marry to love and be a good person, stay for looks and power (LIE)
= Marry to love and be a good person, stay to maintain external harmony (LSE)

= Marry to maintain external harmony, stay to love and be a good person (SLI)
= Marry to maintain external harmony, stay to understand and be competent (SEI)
= Marry to maintain internal harmony, stay to be loved (SLE)
= Marry to maintain internal harmony, stay to keep my world in order (SEE)