inside and out enfps are great people
estjs are demons ...
inside and out enfps are great people
estjs are demons ...
{♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }
...but at least they get their work doneOriginally Posted by IcEPiCk
estjs are demons ....
Not demons, come to think of it. Psychotic killer stomperbots :wink: .
Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.
INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
Dishonorary INFp
Baah
(Very good place for emoticons. Right-click on the one you want and select "properties" for direct link)
ESTj men seem to be paired with ISFp women a lot as well.
I cant see that happenign...
WTF.
ESTJS ARE FUCKING NARROW MINDED. IM SAYING THIS IN FRUSTRATED WITH ONE THOUGH.
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Not blaming the ESTjs of course but my ISFp sister is married to an ESTj so is one of my good friends. They both seem very miserable and appear to be suffocating but they are there hanging on for some reason for years now. My sister isn't even half as adventurous or exciting as she used to be and her self-esteem has plummeted and I think my friend is being abused.
estj - relation of benefit for me and i'm on the low end. I find this relation unfulfilling. It's not estj's, it's the relation, I think. But the ones I know really do walk the straight and narrow which doesnt' fit well with mywhich is constantly all over the place plus my tendency to rebel against tradition and authority.
Kind of funny - estj's think they are better than entp's but we know better. We are the subversive, corrosion against the traditions and facts they hold so dear . . . inside they must be threatened, at least a little . . .
But on their side of it they probably figure we are so out there we'll never get the support of the massses the way they do!
Entp
ILE
ESTj's aren't that bad!
The thing about ESTjs is that it takes a lot to get their respect. Basically, in my experience, you have to prove them wrong in their judgement (if it's negative) of you. After that they actually listen and don't push aside your ideas or suggestions as much; of course it has to be reasonable and it should make sense (or be beneficial somehow).
Plus, their loyalty to family or those they love is really admirable. Great leaders who aren't afraid of getting things done by themselves.
Like all types they have their down sides, but we've mentioned too much of that already.
The thing about ESTjs is, well...they're ESTjs. And they smell good. And they're really cute. And they make out well. And other stuff I won't tell you about.
Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)
"Must look mighty..." __ESTj
Darn, and I almost thought you were gonna Beta on us.
But yeah, ESTjs carry themselves very well and want others to do the same (what an argument that was)! I'm not sure about the making out part...and the other stuff...err...
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
Not sure what would attract them to an INFj though. ESTjs seem to be the types that would like other types that appear to be similiar to themselves. You know people who are 'regular', 'normal' and not very different from what general society says is ok
Thorough and meticulous... when I remember the task or project at all, that is.
Beware! Nerd genes on the prowl.
INFj - The Holy CPU Saint
Dishonorary INFp
Baah
(Very good place for emoticons. Right-click on the one you want and select "properties" for direct link)
It seems that the quiet, weird types like us won't get a good dual until midlife, whenever they realize that being 'cool' means nothing when you're 30. People stop wanting to just have fun and start really looking for a good partner that really means something to them.Not sure what would attract them to an INFj though. ESTjs seem to be the types that would like other types that appear to be similiar to themselves. You know people who are 'regular', 'normal' and not very different from what general society says is ok . I hope I am wrong but I think INTjs and INFjs in particular might have many problems attracting and keeping their duals because extraverted Sj types (generalising here)appear to be amongst the least likely to want to be seen with a 'weird' person so they may fight the attraction. Come to think of it INTps may have a similar problem with their 'super cool' dual. I just hope I am wrong here.
My mom is estj and my dad is infj. I don't actually know what holds them together since they seem to bicker a lot, but hey they've been married 42 years so far and going strong. My father says it was love at first sight.Not sure what would attract them to an INFj though. ESTjs seem to be the types that would like other types that appear to be similiar to themselves. You know people who are 'regular', 'normal' and not very different from what general society says is ok
They do support one another, though. My mom supported my father through his PhD and all kinds of geograhpic relocations and career changes, etc. My father supported my mother in her, er, discipline and parenting of myself and my sibs. They always made time for each other even though we didn't always have a lot of money.
My father is a "dreamer" according to my mother. My mother is "rough on people" according to my father. But they seem to co-exist well even with the bickering. I don't think dual relationships are perfection or anything; maybe you just minimize the chafing that's bound to go on in any marriage!
Entp
ILE
I dont think a lot of ESFP's are as bad as the others with that kind of thing.Come to think of it INTps may have a similar problem with their 'super cool' dual
I am an INFj, and I know ESTjs as great people.
Instead of putting their numerous positive qualities (there are many, believe me), I better say that I know 3 ESTjs close and well for a long time, and honestly they're the best among all my friends.
Do not be decieved with their external strength and 'roughness', they're quite sensitive, tender and kind inside (well, deep inside, though
yeah it's so deep inside...
http://forum.socionix.com
I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.
EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!
This is actually true. Ive known several ESTJs that have a hard shell but are actually teddy bears underneath. Dont try to fight them using logic or facts unless youre possitive about what youre saying and can prove it. A properly groomed ESTJ will give out bear hugs.I am an INFj, and I know ESTjs as great people.
Instead of putting their numerous positive qualities (there are many, believe me), I better say that I know 3 ESTjs close and well for a long time, and honestly they're the best among all my friends.
Do not be decieved with their external strength and 'roughness', they're quite sensitive, tender and kind inside (well, deep inside, though
Topaz
In your case Im sure its true.
Topaz
My ESTj sister has an ability to know what peoples strengths are. I don't know if its just her or an ESTj thing.
Depends. Does she base her knoweldge on experience, looking at what the person has acomplished already, references, what they might tell her or does her ability stem from a hunch or an holistic flash where she sees almost automaticly what sort of person she's dealing with? Maybe even waves of insight that come without alot of concious thought?
Topaz
I know a few people like this. They seem argumentative and they are toppers - anything you say they have to top. If you had a vacation in London, they lived in Scotland for a few months . . . Always one-upping and always with an audience.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
She sounds like an ESTj with a very hyper-active hidden agenda and some other issues.
By that I mean that ESTjs sometimes are "in competition" with others - like the guy who has to have a new car because his neighbor just got one.
I know two ESTjs well - a former boss and a colleague from my university days. My former boss is one who always has to make sure he's doing better than others, but this trait is not as overwhelming as with your friend, it emerges now and then.
On the other hand, my friend from college almost never shows this trait, except in this - she usually accuses others of having it.
Anyway, Megan, I don't think that your acquaintance is typical of ESTjs - I think she's a sensory subtype who got an over-active hidden agenda for some reason.
Moreover, I never saw either of the ESTjs trying to "sabotage" others - it was always more like, "I have to make sure I'm not more flawed than they are" but not with the result of their wanting to sabotage others.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
I have an ESTj friend, but he's not like that Megan. He complains about people at work being incompetent or lazy, but not out of competition with them. It's more like he wants them to be more like him.
I'll reassure you! I do not see that kind of behavior from an ESTj at alllll. My ESTj friend is ultra respectful/sesitive of others triumphs. In fact, she's the one that receives the kind of negativity you are speaking about. She got that from an ISTj. The ISTj roomate would always measure herself up against my friend. It irritated the crap out of my friend.
I know one ESTJ and my experience with this person has made me realize that they have three stages of moods in this order:
1. Judging/Serious mood: They will study you and if they don't like the way you look or act, they will ignore you completely.
2. Angry Manic mood: If a person they know isn't obliging or acknowledging to their beliefs and advice, they will get VERY PISSED OFF!
3. Happy Warm mood: For whatever reason, this mood will randomly show up if they like you or had a good day and they will make you feel at ease and treat you with a lot of respect and kindness.
I like the good qualities of the ESTJ and I'm kind of scared/annoyed by the bad qualities. Though without good, there cannot be any bad...
The weird thing is that an ESTJ has the same 4 main types of functions as an ENFP, except the order is all mixed up.
Extraverted Thinking switches with Extraverted Intuition
Introverted Sensing switches with Introverted Feeling
Its pretty fascinating on how important the ordering of functions is when it comes to personality.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
*Young_and_Confused, Ditto, to your post.
Must be why they can relate so well to each other. And sometimes appear similar to outsiders? People pick up on the similarity of their use of functions?The weird thing is that an ESTJ has the same 4 main types of functions as an ENFP, except the order is all mixed up.
Isn't it though!!!! Yes, completely fascinating. I've contemplated the use of Fe in an INFp and in an ENFj. It has a similar purpose, but it comes out differently when either one of us uses it.Its pretty fascinating on how important the ordering of functions is when it comes to personality.
I don't rememeber relating to an ESTJ*Young_and_Confused, Ditto, to your post.
Must be why they can relate so well to each other. And sometimes appear similar to outsiders? People pick up on the similarity of their use of functions?The weird thing is that an ESTJ has the same 4 main types of functions as an ENFP, except the order is all mixed up.
Isn't it though!!!! Yes, completely fascinating. I've contemplated the use of Fe in an INFp and in an ENFj. It has a similar purpose, but it comes out differently when either one of us uses it.[/quote]Its pretty fascinating on how important the ordering of functions is when it comes to personality.
Well the ENFJ have the same order of functions and it is why they are both equally kind and intuitive, but due to the differences in extraversion and introversion, they way it is expressed is very different.
I think inverses of the same function such thinking: Ti and Te, results in the same action expressed in an opposite way.
Now, different order results in the same functiosn being expressed, but the magnitude is the exact opposite.
I did the above post.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
The reason I was asking those questions is because if someone is hypothetically, looking soley at the functions, they can see how an ESTj may be using Ne and consider them ENFp. Or vice-versa with other functions.I don't rememeber relating to an ESTJ
Hmmm, constant copying and sabotaging...I'm trying to imagine what would cause this behaviour in an ESTj. My friend has always wanted to stand on her own two feet. Never would she feel comfortable copying someone. She is always trying to convey autonomy. In times of stress she'll GET PISSY and TAKE OFF, leave the source of her stress, rather than try to get ahead by mimicing/copying. I don't see that kind of range in her. I guess it's possible, I just haven't observed it.
I read somewhere that their rage is supposed to move the INFj into action. It activates something in the INFj and that calms down the ESTj. Have you read that tid-bit?Though I must confess that I am a little concerned about the rage thing too.
@maizemedley
No, I have not read that "tid-bit". Do you know where I can find it?
I am not certain that rage would motivate me, usually I get really motivated if there is some goal/aim that has a great degree of personal significance to me. Rage might get my undivided attention however
And this as well. http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.3.rels/index-rels.html
click on, "duality complementary" and click on "Administrator+Humanist."
Ah, never mind, here you go. If it's too much for people's eyes, I'll delete the post.
The Administrator is very hard working; he rationally spends his time and does not like getting distracted by extraneous talk. He is very practical and economical. He strives to be competent in business issues, accumulating necessary information on problems interesting to him. He tends to take on too many responsibilities. So he needs The Humanist, which can suggest, which actions are most promising. The Humanist willingly helps in this work, doing it diligently and qualitatively.
The Administrator does not tolerate inferior quality. He likes integrity and uprightness in relations. The Humanist, as a rule, is an exceptionally honest and conscientious partner. He willingly processes great quantities of information, draws general conclusions and schedules actions. The Administrator sees planning as a problem. On the one hand, he is sometimes too impatient, on the other – he may be distracted by outside matters, procrastinating on important issues and failing to fulfill them in due time. He accepts this fact very painfully. He needs an undemanding regulator, a provident and prescient partner.
The second bright trait of The Administrator is his ability to take care of his family's welfare. He strives for a high standard of living. He demands quality and possesses well-developed esthetic taste. He is a kind of gourmet, likes tasty and healthy meals; parties for his close friends or family members organized by him are distinguished by very high taste. The Humanist is very reserved in communication. He is devoted to his narrow but stable circle of friends. He possesses 'clever hands' and interest in various technologies, culinary and medical recipes. While The Administrator creates comfort on a whole, his dual perfects all the details.
The Humanist is very attentive towards people, which is not applicable to his dual who is interested more in results of work and communication rather than in the very process. For this reason The Administrator, who is usually reserved and polite, may give way to irritation and wrath, especially when people take his precious time. At such moments he loses the feeling of tactfulness, may become blunt. He needs an ever-reserved, diplomatic and peaceful partner by his side. The Humanist softens ethical mistakes of his dual, performs peacemaking activities. By his persuasions he softens harsh behavior of the Administrator, appeals to his inborn nobility, magnanimity and conscience. By doing this, he facilitates communication with others. This helps The Administrator to keep stable the circle of his business partners.
The Humanist also foresees well the outcome of undertakings and relations. By his advice he helps his improvident dual to avoid many mistakes, the main of which is wishful thinking, especially about health and relations with people. He recognizes well the perspectives of new theories or technologies and he is among the first to struggle for their implementation.
The Administrator is conservative enough in his views, and without such support he tends to fall into routine, may even stop in his development, stagnate in everyday chores, or lose his spirituality, romantic feelings and interest towards intellectual novelties.
On the other hand, The Administrator is capable of thinking clearly and logically, of noticing what’s most important, of modernizing inefficient, outdated structures or technologies. He strives for higher quality and better outcome. The Humanist needs such a partner, who switches his attention from trivialities to more global undertakings. In addition, his dual attracts him as a protector and leader.
The Humanist is a very softhearted and sensitive person. His kindness if often misused by the others. By contrast, The Administrator is full of initiative, but does not like when others impose their own initiatives on him. He may show aggression, but hardly perceives aggression of the others. The Humanist, in spite of his indecisiveness, defends his own interests silently but impertinently, if he is sure of his being right. In practical affairs he is not very capable of protecting his interests, letting his more penetrative dual do it. He tolerates The Administrator's inability to praise, make compliments, which is caused by his insufficient understanding of individual traits and human potential capabilities. The Humanist understands this aspect and considers it to be so obvious that he does not require words of approval. He likes the integrity and hard work of his short-spoken dual.
This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people, hard work, and attention to details and integrity in everything.
Megan,
I think that the best description of duality, also of ESTj-INFj, is in socionics.org. You can get a translation from the Russian here:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel....socionics.org
Then click on the link "sotsionika" and then "dualization of the types".
This is a few months old, but this reminded me of something, since we're talking about ESTjs - -Not blaming the ESTjs of course but my ISFp sister is married to an ESTj so is one of my good friends. They both seem very miserable and appear to be suffocating but they are there hanging on for some reason for years now
My ESTj college friend - whom I mentioned in response to Megan's post - had an ISFp boyfriend. They stayed together for many years, since first year at university, but with many break-ups.
It was always the ISFp guy who left her and then came back. She told me that she never took the initiative to break up, but when telling me about it, she was in full supervisor mode and could only mention his faults, not hers.
What she complained about was his unskilled financial management - ie not saving enough - and that, later, he re-discovered his Jewishness and started to insist on being very restrict regarding food, etc. She did not mind the spiritual side of it, but she resented the practical limitations.
I can only imagine that her
He was also the one who took the initiative in starting the relationship at the beginning, and he was very persistent.
Just some further thoughts on ESTjs.
@Expat
I have a look at the site but to be honest, I just cannot understand the translation. How did you do it? Maybe if ever you have some free time on your hands you could do some enhancements to the translation and post it here.
Megan.
Megan,
I don't read Russian, I just read the babelfish translation. I think it's possible to understand most of it, but it takes some work.
I'll try to write an edited version of my understanding of it. It's true that the ESTj-INFj bit seems more difficult to read than the ENTj-ISFj bit.
@Expat
I suspected just a tiny bit that you do not speak Russian. My previous question was indeed referring to the babelfish translation. I am just not sure how you even made sense of the ENTj-ISFj one. Anyway, it would be really great if you could forward your edited understanding of some of that and the ESTj-INFj one when you have the time.
Perhaps it's my arrogantPersonal Knowlege - - I just assume I did, when I really didn't :wink: . Just joking, I'll try.
After reading this whole thread, I would easily believe I am ESTj and not ENTj. I am confused here.
note, if this post is considered hijack I will leave this thread alone!
Logical-Intuitive Extravert (ENTj)
I found out that google had a translator, too. I thought it was easier to read when someone linked it to me. Im not sure how to find it again yet tho.
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