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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    So at this point I'm not sure what my type is, beyond it being one of the four Merry extrovert types, and no other type fitting at all.

    So, tell me what type I am. And why you're not retarded for thinking so.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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    If it's between those, ENTp fo sho. You know my reasons.
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    lol@ sle your funny alek
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I'm not altogether opposed to ILE as a type, but hearing you two type me that only assures me I'm something else...

    What's so funny about SLE?
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not altogether opposed to ILE as a type, but hearing you two type me that only assures me I'm something else...

    What's so funny about SLE?
    I've questioned if you were ENTp as well, elsewhere.

    I hope you're not just brushing people aside because they're Fi-Te though. I don't think anyone is against you finding out your type.

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    You do seem a lot like Gilly...

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straytk View Post
    I've questioned if you were ENTp as well, elsewhere.

    I hope you're not just brushing people aside because they're Fi-Te though. I don't think anyone is against you finding out your type.
    Oh fuck no, I'm brushing aside Crispy and Ashton because they've earned it.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not altogether opposed to ILE as a type, but hearing you two type me that only assures me I'm something else...
    Hahaha!! Yeah...
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Oh, and guess who else? Gilly. This man is a Gilly clone, through and through. He even does that BS "EVERYTHING MUST BE Ti'd" thing. You know, that thing that ILEs NEVER DO.

    He's a textbook case of weak/valued Ti.
    Man, chill out and listen a bit. What if you mix in ILE stuff with Ti stuff & stuff? I mean, Aleksei's reasoning IMO is Ti-Creative, I also identified with him numerous times, he is foccused and precise on an argument at a time, without concern about the "big shit", like how his opinions match consensus, academy, etc.

    Gilly is some sort of a "public person", you see him but his reasoning is somehow distant and global, you can never get too close to something palpable in what he says, he's like a manager who learns a bit from everyone, and takes action in a "middle-way" manner, so that everything fits-in. He's much more general, global than Aleksei, he "prepares the terrain", if you know what I mean, while Aleksei is always getting straightly to the point. Gilly is also detached from the facts and always sees the parts in a big picture, in some sort of epic, social manner. For example, Gilly never got down from his crystal castle to dirty his hands with concrete criteria for differentiating Socionics from MBTI and Jung, it was like he is waiting for something, often mixing in the renown or popularity of different ideas, talking to him made me feel, to a large extent, that he was not fully understanding each piece, that the particular facts are not actually what he wants to listen, on the other hand he was attracted by passion, fascination & things like this. Aleksei instead, he snaps on the arguments, on consistency, without overlooking things just because "they look right" or because people agree.

    On a related note, I witnessed SLEs in a professional collective who brought up dilemmas exactly when it was supposed that things are settled and people get to work, everyone getting unreasonably outraged; you notice that I said "unreasonably", because even if these SLEs chose that moment for controversy - which I'm not even sure it's true, annoy or animate their colleagues, they are right and nothing else matters. You see, as a Ti-Creative you can't get over the truth, the way you see it, neither you accept that someone steps on it. Maybe I am wrong, but Aleksei seems to me such person, I doesn't see him fearful to call things on their name, to call people stupid - when objectively they are stupid - even if he keeps an eye for the social aspect, asking for opinions (eg his polls that I call useless), taking care of not coming across as a crackpot or hilarious, etc.
    IMO here EIEs are totally different, their prestance and image is paramount (because Ni/Se is Producing, Ni is Creative, btw), the ability to deal with anyone, anywhere at anytime, distancing themselves almost completely from polemics.

    EIEs simply don't think like that, ThanksArthur, the descriptions are pretty clear about the tactical and concrete nature of SLEs on one hand, and the intellectually detached, "choreograpic" and socially-dependent nature of the EIE (NF, btw). Obviously, this is not a full analysis, I don't say that he's an ILE - I disagree with that typing as well, but he is clearly a Ti-Creative, IMO.
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    Imagine Timeless's Avatar
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    ¿Porque no pones un video?

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    I don't really know you that well. I feel like sometimes you're hiding who you are, that you're more interested in figuring others out then you are figuring yourself out. Your posts don't really 'cut through anything' the way some people's do.

    People whose posts cut through:

    Vero. Gilly. Dolphin. Ashton. Nick. Maritsa. Myself. And recently, polik has been able to cut through it all and show people who he is.

    But a lot of people on here (not that this is a bad thing mind you, I'm not really criticizing it) posts are just unremarkable to me in all ways, and then they ask me to type them or ask me to have insight about how they are. But they're not really showing anything, or being honest. I guess it's very embarrassing to be really honest? But I have a gut instinct that you're just not being truthful. 'Lying by omission', I mean.

    I can't really sense your personal quirks and idiosyncrasies like I can the others. My friendly advice would be to 'stop searching' and to simply meet others wherever you're at, naturally and concretely. And then, we can get a better knack of who you are.

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    I type you as Puerto Rican.


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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
    I type you as Puerto Rican.

    Best typing in this thread so far
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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    ENTp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleski
    PoLR leads to an acute lack of concern for physical well-being in favor of pushing yourself to keep doing things. In the case of EIE they might wanna keep active, keep having fun, keep making grandiose displays, and will not stop until they drop from exhaustion. In the case of LIE it manifests in a tendency towards workaholism. I don't pay nearly as much attention as I likely should to my physical well-being, but I certainly don't identify with that. Nor, really, with the proactiveness of the Rational temperament...
    BTW I've known ENXps work themselves to exhaustion because they don't know how to relax. I've also known lazy EJs, hard working ISXps because vitality isn't type related.

    I don't think it would do you harm to step away from the basic function descriptions, as these things manifest in complex and different ways from person to person that makes it too hard to qualify in such simplistic ways, it's really just guidelines at the most.

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    BTW I've known ENXps work themselves to exhaustion because they don't know how to relax.
    I know; that's one of the reasons I ultimately decided against ENTp. I often skip meals, sleep, whatever because I'm doing something I consider more important and fun, but I'm never unaware of how to take care of myself -- I just don't care too much. Sounds more like strong/devalued to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I don't think it would do you harm to step away from the basic function descriptions, as these things manifest in complex and different ways from person to person that makes it too hard to qualify in such simplistic ways, it's really just guidelines at the most.
    Getting away from definitions is not possible without deviating from Socionics itself. Socionics types are not natural phenomena -- they're models of personality, and determining my type requires determining which model I fit most closely.

    Quote Originally Posted by sdrawkcab delleps aixelsyd View Post
    I think you're some irrational type and are not Si leading. How's that sound?
    That sounds accurate, if broader than my own initial estimation.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    So you're SLE now? Hm, I don't feel supervised. :wink:
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I don't feel supervised by ESIs most of the time either (or SEIs, or LSIs). Supervision comes out when your supervisor actually wants something from you. :wink:
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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    i agree that EIE intuitively feels like a good typing, and i can see the similarities to Gilly too. sorry for this redundant post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaDoomer View Post
    So you're SLE now? Hm, I don't feel supervised. :wink:
    I type your sig LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I type your sig LSI.
    lol, why is that? I thought it's funny because there are so many socionics symbols at once, not just one.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    ILE makes no sense. Seriously. How does he even remotely look like any of the ILEs on the forums? Jx, Mountain Dew, Timeless (esp. Timeless, since he's one of the goofball ILEs but is still completely not at all anything like Aleksei).
    Just found another post where I was mentioned. I need to come here more, been busy with real life lately.

    Anyway, I'm happy someone wants to claim me in their quadra. But. I'd just like to point out that I've been question ENTp lately and strongly considering ESTp. So maybe using me as a basis of comparison for Aleksei might not be a solid idea right now.

    That being said, I have noticed Aleksei does seem a lot like me. Even the demanding, wanting to understand the REASON behind things, how they fit together... fits strongly with Ti creative:

    "Ti as a creative (2nd) function (ILE and SLE)

    The individual easily generates logical systems and formulations to explain a set of phenomena that he has experienced or studied. However, these logical systems or explanations are not viewed as permanent or all-encompassing, but can be improved upon or even discarded as new experience and information is added. "


    So I'd say ENTp or ESTp. To point at a couple specific examples which are exactly how I think:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenna View Post
    aleksei. you aren't estp
    entp IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    So, tell me what type I am. And why you're not retarded for thinking so.
    I want to know the logic and reason behind the decisions. When others gave their opinions, I asked 'why' or 'why not'? I did this exact same thing in one of my first threads, when trying to figure out my type:

    Please VI me =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    I'm starting to give up. As a request, could the people who voted for a certain type with no explanation, give an explanation? Like Krig the Viking, or doesn't have to be long, like Crispy or Jenna. Maybe if we get some debate going, it'll be easier to figure out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Thank you for the input, but for the sake of learning and debate, why do you think that?
    ^^ This is when I was trying to be polite at first, asking others what they thought nicely. Before I started getting fed up and just *demanding* a reason, the explanation behind their thoughts, and just calling others stupid if they made no sense.

    But anyway, I would say the way Aleksei writes fits with Ti creative. We want to know the reason behind explanations, and how it fits with the overall system. I'd say either ENTp or ESTp like me.

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    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
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    Mountain Dew: just letting you know that I'm not sure of your Te-ness anymore and indeed you seem likely Ti-Creative. This has no connection with Aleksei, I did not study the similarities between you two, but the way you write and reason. IMO, in the beginning, you were actually looking for some absolute "hard facts" for why you're a certain type and it was actually not the case, Te being more appropriate. Indeed you were always asking "why", but that can be interpreted in different manners (one of them made me consider ESE, if you remember) - eg a self-validating (obvious) fact or a sensible - as in formally correct - explanation.

    But I see you really being focused on the inherent nature (so not just the formal correctness, surface of functionality) of these similarities between you and him. Indeed unlike him, I found you too demanding and boastful in the beginning, not necessarily in a bad way, but rather superficial and hasty - but that's probably because I found him first in discussions where he had good arguments, while what you were saying were more like bare assertions.

    So yes, Ti-Creative works IMO and I'll go with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    know that I'm not sure
    Does the Sun rise for us at the same time, Socrates ?

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    ^ lol

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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    That being said, I have noticed Aleksei does seem a lot like me. Even the demanding, wanting to understand the REASON behind things, how they fit together... fits strongly with Ti creative:

    "Ti as a creative (2nd) function (ILE and SLE)

    The individual easily generates logical systems and formulations to explain a set of phenomena that he has experienced or studied. However, these logical systems or explanations are not viewed as permanent or all-encompassing, but can be improved upon or even discarded as new experience and information is added. "
    I'd be curious to know what people here think Ti-creative looks like in SLEs. That canned description of Ti-creative is sort of too vague for me to find it useful. And you made a leap--your description of what you do doesn't precisely match the quotation; it's an interpretation.

    I want to know the logic and reason behind the decisions. When others gave their opinions, I asked 'why' or 'why not'? I did this exact same thing in one of my first threads, when trying to figure out my type:
    Again, is this really an overwhelmingly SLE trait? It strikes me as off. I see ENTps do this, but ESTps, not so much.

    But anyway, I would say the way Aleksei writes fits with Ti creative. We want to know the reason behind explanations, and how it fits with the overall system. I'd say either ENTp or ESTp like me.
    Neither of you seems like an ESTp to me. You said you have this trait of demanding to know why, so let's see if I can give you anything to go on. This is hard for me to articulate, because a lot of it is just vibes and useless in that regard.

    I know there are people here who put no stock in VI, but looking at both of your photos, I don't see Se-leading. That's no small thing. You'll want to know what Se-leading looks like. Sigh ... how to describe? Your eyes (both) have a sort of soft brightness--you do look extraverted, engaging the world, but ... Here's a question. Has anybody ever told you that your eyes move all around in their sockets? I haven't seen ENTps' eyes do this; they focus intently but tend to move with the head.

    Also, the structure of your posts, and the mood or tone of them ... just strike me as not SLE. I'm sure I shouldn't generalize, but you're sort of too tinkly and verbose or something? You just don't seem heavy like SLE sometimes does to me, sort of heavy and dry? And in a forum, less likely to spill so much information at once, spinning out long sentences? Examining all these possibilities in an open-ended way? Don't know why.

    I guess that so far, in SLEs I see a lot less traditionally intellectual-looking Ti than I see in ILEs. Somehow, the linking of Ti to the Se-leading (or maybe this is + versus - Ti?) makes it seem way more about practical structuring and providing shorthand, workable answers, and not about the endless quest for understanding or getting answers. Again, I'd like to know how others see this.

    Aaaand, even though some people say you shouldn't type by interaction--and God knows doing it over the Internet is ridiculous--neither of you feels like a dual to me. You both feel like someone I could get along with well, so illusionary was fine with me, MD, and as for Aleksei, I am not sure about EIE but ... maybe. I lean ILE over the other possibilities at this point.

    Anyway, I know what I wrote isn't all that helpful, but ... best I can do to attempt to provide evidence where I mostly have feelings.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

  25. #25
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    Bolt, thank you. And yes, I don't think Te fits really anymore either. And I was quite unlike myself when first posting, trying to describe myself fully, every little bit, and it did come across as braggard and boastful I think. Even the ESE vibe, people interpreted me as an Extroverted Feeler, which I also find quite ironic with Aleksei too. Perhaps SLEs have a tendency to be dramatic?

    Golden, what you write *is* helpful. Don't doubt yourself. You gotta remember, when I type on socionics, it's not very much like what I am in real life... in real life, with friends and all, I talk about business a lot, jobs, the economy, sports a great deal as well! Perhaps I don't bring much of that here onto socionics? And I can be INCREDIBLY aggressive and territorial. That's also tough to see on the internet, but fits strongly with Se. Before I thought it was just a frustration with logical-incorrectness from others, Ti, but now I can see it's Se too.

    And... I haven't been posting nearly enough as I want. Busy in real life! Been picking up more hours at work. But I'm flattered you think we would be good friends, regardless of being duals, because you don't think MY type is SLE.

  26. #26
    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Golden, what you write *is* helpful. Don't doubt yourself. You gotta remember, when I type on socionics, it's not very much like what I am in real life... in real life, with friends and all, I talk about business a lot, jobs, the economy, sports a great deal as well! Perhaps I don't bring much of that here onto socionics? And I can be INCREDIBLY aggressive and territorial. That's also tough to see on the internet, but fits strongly with Se. Before I thought it was just a frustration with logical-incorrectness from others, Ti, but now I can see it's Se too.

    And... I haven't been posting nearly enough as I want. Busy in real life! Been picking up more hours at work. But I'm flattered you think we would be good friends, regardless of being duals, because you don't think MY type is SLE.
    Okie-doke.

    By the way, ENTps are really cool.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

  27. #27
    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Dew View Post
    Perhaps SLEs have a tendency to be dramatic?
    I'd call how SLEs come across as "bombastic" or "spectacular"

    Btw, your last post is full of Fe Valuing, IMO.
    Shock intuition, diamond logic.
     

    The16types.info Scientific Model

  28. #28
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    Here's a question. Has anybody ever told you that your eyes move all around in their sockets? I haven't seen ENTps' eyes do this; they focus intently but tend to move with the head.
    *raises hand*

    Also, the structure of your posts, and the mood or tone of them ... just strike me as not SLE. I'm sure I shouldn't generalize, but you're sort of too tinkly and verbose or something? You just don't seem heavy like SLE sometimes does to me, sort of heavy and dry? And in a forum, less likely to spill so much information at once, spinning out long sentences? Examining all these possibilities in an open-ended way? Don't know why.
    I don't tend to examine many possibilities at once. Generally when I post I'm giving an answer -- one answer, rather than many, and I tend to do it in a rather brash and bombastic way. Longer posts I make actually tend to result from my crazy genius IEI best friend (who almost never posts but lurks around frequently) telling me to add more information. In fact you might have found there is a thread in progress right now chastising me for being excessively assertive in making deductions.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

  29. #29
    ._. Aiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I don't tend to examine many possibilities at once. Generally when I post I'm giving an answer -- one answer, rather than many, and I tend to do it in a rather brash and bombastic way. Longer posts I make actually tend to result from my crazy genius IEI best friend (who almost never posts but lurks around frequently) telling me to add more information. In fact you might have found there is a thread in progress right now chastising me for being excessively assertive in making deductions.
    Cause-effect thinking in action?

  30. #30
    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Cause-effect thinking in action?
    Hmm?
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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