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    Default Table Etiquette

    I think it is the most stupid thing to ever have been invented by human kind. Is this type related or is it just a difference between generations and traditions? I know of a few people of my generation who value this sort of crap and they all seem to me to be ignorant snobs. I have heard people try to relate Etiquette to Fi, but I don't exactly understand how not dipping bread in your soup or keeping your elbows off the table is going to help maintain or improve personal relationships, so I don't know if I buy that. And if you don't believe it is type related, could you perhaps explain to me why it even exists?

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    I agree. It's one of those dumb traditions seemingly designed to divvy people up into the 'cultured' and people they can feel superior to or something.

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    idk, I think it's just a factor of social environment. Like, my mom (ILE) is very particular about table manners, but she was raised in a wealthy family that lived that high class lifestyle. My dad (LSI) on the other hand was raised during post war Germany and lived on a farm, and he has rather course table manners.

    I imagine that pretty much applies to all people more or less, it's just part of nature-nurture. I mean, if nobody taught us anything about things like manners either way we'd probably all be very primitive when it came to these sorts of things
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    idk, I think it's just a factor of social environment. Like, my mom (ILE) is very particular about table manners, but she was raised in a wealthy family that lived that high class lifestyle. My dad (LSI) on the other hand was raised during post war Germany and lived on a farm, and he has rather course table manners.
    you mean "coarse."

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    People who are too focused on manners and being polite kinda remind me of the Mayor on Buffy. Remember him? Very evil even though he's very neat and clean.

    I get that they're important to an extent but they're also an illusion. Am I really gonna not like somebody cause they feel natural enough with me to burp or fart around me and not be so aware of themselves? If anything, that's a good sign- that they can relax around me. It means that we're not subconsciously scrutinizing each other so much.

    I wish my family would talk about shit more like black ppl and threw stuff at each other more instead of letting things fester like we do. I don't want to be TOO black, ewww but my family could use more color. They could use more sassy black woman-ness telling them how shit really goes down. especially my mom. Ugh. SO fake and SO white sometimes. Even she knows when she's doing it too. Slap that enneagram 3 right off their faces I say. =D

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    People who are too influenced by 'good manners' seem really gullible to me, like they would buy anything from somebody just because they're being nice. Of course business operates on the principalness of niceness, they're trying to encourage you to buy it. I'm a little backwards. I'm only motivated to buy a product if they can get under my skin and know how to be as shockingly cruel to me as possible. So I'm kinda only influenced by Hollywood, daaaahling. (hehehehe)

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    Ahh Table Etiquette probably didn't originate as a scheme to divide the cultured from the un-cultured, it probably started as something practical and eventually became common practice or tradition. Sort of like how its proper to shake with your right hand.

    Generally people who care about these things focus on maintaining social conventions, which are largely arbitrary. There are many reasons for this....

    1) Having a convention in place makes things work easier than having to establish one impromptu (this applies to traffic laws and right of ways, but not so much to table manners)

    2) Strong feelings are associated to customs and traditions of your society (usually this applies to customs and traditions which have their utility in bringing people together, i.e. shaking hands, greetings, holidays, religion, offensive gestures, etc) -- This is likely Fi related

    3) Think up another reason.... I'm bored

    -- Usually compulsive personalities are more focused on these things, so typically rational personalities are drawn to convention... probably Ti for the first reason and Fi for the second reason

    People who obsess over table manners may be attempting to display class pride, or it could be something like they have a more anal retentive personality.... personally the thought of someone burping and farting like a country bumpkin and shouting like a drunken sailor is a huge repulsion, not because of class issues, but because they are filling the place up with their nastiness without permission. Farting and Burping expels gas in their body into the community air that people breath, shouting sends ripples of waves into the air that can't be avoided.... generally people don't like that. If you live on a farm, typically though you come back sweaty from work and the first thing on your mind is replenishment and it doesn't matter how proper you eat, its a matter of survival and work. Each set of manners fits a practical situation... its not some conspiracy really.... however there are always those annoying people on both sides.... the obsessively cultured highbrow condescending jackass and the smelly uncultured slob. I think in general its a dangerous game to try to represent yourself different so you'll fit into a class better, you should really just do what works.... if your a soldier at war, chow down an MRE like a mut..... if your at a nice function, you don't have to be stiff, but try to respect other peoples wishes and don't ejaculate your semen all over the place and flake off dandruff everywhere and eat the cake with your bare hands and grab that hot girls ass like your a caveman. Not so that your compatriots will accept you, because it makes sense in those situations.
    Last edited by male; 12-27-2010 at 10:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Ahh Table Etiquette probably didn't originate as a scheme to divide the cultured from the un-cultured, it probably started as something practical and eventually became common practice or tradition. Sort of like how its proper to shake with your right hand.
    ... and like anything, Beta j's codify it and turn it into a uber-mega serious ritual .

    My ESE mother tried to teach us some but I find it hilarious. My brother - SLI - usually respects these things because he cares that people don't look down at him, but otherwise he doesn't care too much.

    I wondered why people who do such laughable things are often taken more seriously than the others, and IMO could partially be about reliability. It's like they can do typical things out of principle, so you know what to expect from them. They can follow rules and stuff.
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    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt View Post
    I wondered why people who do such laughable things are often taken more seriously than the others, and IMO could partially be about reliability. It's like they can do typical things out of principle, so you know what to expect from them. They can follow rules and stuff.
    Well purple used to be the color of royalty and people in roman times used to take purple patches and sew them onto their clothing to look royal and important. People today do similarly stupid things to show off their status.

    I think people who over obsess about table manners may be running in fear of some aspect of themselves, like they apraise themselves as unworthy compared to higher class individuals and then desire to kind of sneak themselves into a class higher if they imitate the behaviors of that class. It never works though because the higher class people that are the most judgmental and exclusive will see this insecurity and neediness and play to it, exploit it for their own purposes. If there were a "good" higher class person they wouldn't care about such ostentiacious rituals and therefore it would worthless to win their approval through imitation.

    Anyways some people are just more anal and over-obsess about proper presentation, other people fit the above category being phonies, but its a fine line where one stops and the other begins.

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    EffyCold The Ineffable's Avatar
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    Man, you're totally Se-PoLR .
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveLucidDreamz View Post
    Well purple used to be the color of royalty and people in roman times used to take purple patches and sew them onto their clothing to look royal and important. People today do similarly stupid things to show off their status.
    You know, I think that for some it's just some sort of signalling to like-minded people - at least for intelligent persons who realize that not anyone swallow the pill. My boss, SLE, is that kind of big exclusivist business-man, in a way, though he never tries to impress me or some similar people with bullshit like that. These people need to find value in something, otherwise, what are they struggling for, or something? They simply like to do that, they feel priviledged and accomplished when for example get invited into a select network, just like scientists when they find some stuff about stars, atoms, things, whitout which they feel empty and meaningless. And just like scientists, who you certainly understand much better, they feel the need to share the feeling.
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    Yea but that exclusivity can either be a complete sham you make up to feel good that in the back of your mind you know is phony... or it can really mean something.

    I personally don't care what philosophy you choose, but I'd rather have my accomplishments mean something, like a skill. An olympic athlete who can run a mile in a record time is REALLY exclusive because its a skill they have that not everyone can do.... theres a difference between that and simply going out and buying a trophy from goodwill and placing it in your room to feel special. In fact I see that kind of behavior as a bit pathetic as well as most people that I know.

    As for social circles and exclusivity, usually this is formed via like minded people who just click and harmonize well. The positive feelings come from knowing that people in your circle are on the same wavelength as you, they get you and you get them, and you share things. This is how nature works, wolves form packs together, members take on roles, food is shared. People are really not that different, just more sophisticated and complex, but its incredibly easy to infiltrate outside social networks once you understand the mentality of the people, of course thats not the point the point is, why go around being a phony... why not just merge with those that get you and have a use for your skills, otherwise why sell out to the crowd?

    If you do you could risk just paying into a pyramid scheme of social respect and the guy at the top isn't really higher based on skills but higher based on leeching off the others peoples desire to be at the top, all it take is one devoted flunky to begin forming the pyramid =p.

    The same applies for science, there are tons of phonies in academia.
    Last edited by male; 12-28-2010 at 04:48 AM.

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