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Thread: Fi ignoring/Fe leading and adapting behavior for ENFjs and ESFjs

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    Default Fi ignoring/Fe leading and adapting behavior for ENFjs and ESFjs

    i find myself sometimes, okay frequently, altering my behavior and even my tiniest most subtle mannerisms to best appeal to whomever i am interacting with at the time..

    this extends to dating and relationships, it took me until i was 22 or so to realize i needed to figure out exacttly what i wanted in a man instead of adapting to any man i happened to like and find myself with. instead i used to adapt my reactions and actions, i did it well but eventually these fell apart when i decided i wouldnt, do that any more.. its like i wanted the Fe response from them, a pleasant passionate Fe interaction, and Fi be damned. is this familiar to other EXEs, maybe to EIEs specially??
    Last edited by ladyinred; 12-18-2010 at 03:33 PM.

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    Well, I look for an FE response in others and can be a bit annoyed by an Fi one, Ie lack of response. Thats what I call an Fi response, but I think it would be better called a lack of Ni response since Ni is about reactions to a large extent. It annoys me when a person doesnt use Fe or Ni in response to me I guess is what Im saying. But Fi to me isnt much worse to me. Its Ne that annoys me.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhon View Post
    Well, I look for an FE response in others and can be a bit annoyed by an Fi one, Ie lack of response. Thats what I call an Fi response, but I think it would be better called a lack of Ni response since Ni is about reactions to a large extent. It annoys me when a person doesnt use Fe or Ni in response to me I guess is what Im saying. But Fi to me isnt much worse to me. Its Ne that annoys me.
    YESS!!!!

    i HATE when i am friendly with someone, especially like go out of my way to be friendly or welcoming, and they dont respond or barely respond at all. it makes me feel rejected by them, or like they are weary of my friendliness or something, and then i dont know what to think of them, i just feel uncertain and not happy about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    YESS!!!!

    i HATE when i am friendly with someone, especially like go out of my way to be friendly or welcoming, and they dont respond or barely respond at all. it makes me feel rejected by them, or like they are weary of my friendliness or something, and then i dont know what to think of them, i just feel uncertain and not happy about it
    yeah I know exatcly what you mean. I dont get people like that since for me its easy to respond to someone emotionally, maybe it isnt for everyone else except us and ESEs though i kinda doubt it. Some people are just assholes haha.

    Also I find that I need approval from others when interacting with them like Ill just seek their approval and try to do and say what they expect as "right" from me.
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    With Fe base types, they are entirely focused on the implicit emotional dynamic that exists in peoples actions and interactions. They focus on manipulating or maintaining this in order to create mood that they would like to see. Most often this means upholding a positive, friendly, and fun atmosphere. While doing this they are aware of the bonds they are creating with others, and they enjoy creating these bonds with others. However, if they have to deal with being around people they dislike or if personal boundaries are crossed, they can easily overlook these personal fouls in the name of maintaining an atmosphere. They may even ignore the fact that they dislike someone if they see that person as fun to be around and contributing to interpersonal dynamics, and they will continue to put themselves in a position where they are around the person(i.e. invite them to parties, etc).
    Posted by Azeroffs. Would you say that fits?
    4w5 sp/sx

    Please, direct all questioning of my self-typing to this thread. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    i find myself sometimes, okay frequently, altering my behavior and even my tiniest most subtle mannerisms to best appeal to whomever i am interacting with at the time..
    Absolutely. I actually find myself doing this almost unconsciously. My IEI best friend seems to do it deliberately, in order to fit in and manipulate others into doing what he wants.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    I alter and adjust myself FAR too much for my own good. Yes.

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    can u guys give some examples of such scenarios? I'm not sure i totally understand...
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    I catch myself doing this sometimes -- it's not so much becoming a different person so much as it's emphasizing different aspects of one's self to fit into different contexts. I always feel guilty when I catch myself doing this, but the truth is that everyone does it to some extent.

    An extreme example is the way you use a different tone when you're talking to your boss vs. a close friend -- it's the same kind of discrepancy in self-expression, except it doesn't necessarily stem from the external context of the interaction as much as an awareness of the specific individual(s) you're talking to...if that makes any sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladyinred View Post
    i find myself sometimes, okay frequently, altering my behavior and even my tiniest most subtle mannerisms to best appeal to whomever i am interacting with at the time..?
    Fe related? If you are engaging I can be whoever you want me to be. I'm Fe PoLR.

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    I think everyone is guilty of doing this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limNol View Post
    I catch myself doing this sometimes -- it's not so much becoming a different person so much as it's emphasizing different aspects of one's self to fit into different contexts. I always feel guilty when I catch myself doing this, but the truth is that everyone does it to some extent.

    An extreme example is the way you use a different tone when you're talking to your boss vs. a close friend -- it's the same kind of discrepancy in self-expression, except it doesn't necessarily stem from the external context of the interaction as much as an awareness of the specific individual(s) you're talking to...if that makes any sense.
    yeah i think everyone does this. I feel if anything it reflects differing Fi distances rather than Fe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    yeah i think everyone does this. I feel if anything it reflects differing Fi distances rather than Fe.
    Yeah, everyone does this, but I think different types might do it for different reasons. Fi types probably do it as a way of reflecting and establishing a certain relationship, whereas Fe types might do it more for the sake of maintaining a particular 'emotional atmosphere.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I think everyone is guilty of doing this.
    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    yeah i think everyone does this. I feel if anything it reflects differing Fi distances rather than Fe.
    Quote Originally Posted by limNol View Post
    Yeah, everyone does this, but I think different types might do it for different reasons. Fi types probably do it as a way of reflecting and establishing a certain relationship, whereas Fe types might do it more for the sake of maintaining a particular 'emotional atmosphere.'
    Hmmm, no, I actually think this is more the purview of Ethical types. Logical types I think would tend to be more gruff and less comfortable with modifying their behavior to create a certain emotional impact.

    Any type can bullshit to make a good impression on others though.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Hmmm, no, I actually think this is more the purview of Ethical types. Logical types I think would tend to be more gruff and less comfortable with modifying their behavior to create a certain emotional impact.

    Any type can bullshit to make a good impression on others though.
    nah, i think even logical types behave differently towards their lover than they do towards their boss.

    for those of you who say you do it, i wonder how conscious it is for you. it's not something i think about doing, and when somebody comments about something like, "your voice sounds different when you're on the phone with so-and-so" it takes me by surprise because i hadn't even noticed.

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    It's an automatic thing for me, too, but more and more I'm trying to be conscious of it. I realized that people who knew me in different capacities sometimes had completely different conceptions of me, and somewhere along the way the "real me" was getting lost in translation.

    edit- In terms of ethical vs. logical types, I think it's a continuum. Everyone does it to different extents, but ethical types are more to one side of the continuum than logical types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    nah, i think even logical types behave differently towards their lover than they do towards their boss.
    Clearly, but it'd be harder for them. Logical types (IxTx's especially) I find, tend to be somewhat Spock-like and need some help letting loose. That's why they need us Ethicals.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Errrr, I do that unconsciously and all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by limNol View Post
    Yeah, everyone does this, but I think different types might do it for different reasons. Fi types probably do it as a way of reflecting and establishing a certain relationship, whereas Fe types might do it more for the sake of maintaining a particular 'emotional atmosphere.'
    THAT I can agree with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    nah, i think even logical types behave differently towards their lover than they do towards their boss.
    I'm actually more likely to alter my behavior temporarily for a business reason then for a lover. If someone like that doesn't like me for who I am then what's the point? A lover is going to get me more like myself when I'm alone then anyone else.

    This is not to say that I won't do certain things in order to attain/maintain a relationship that I find necessary but the moment I feel the alteration is untenable or not worth the emotional rewards, it's over.

    Fundamentally I'm looking for someone who likes me for who I am, since I feel I'm pretty cool already.

    I might ask someone to do something for me, but I would never ask anyone to be someone for me and this is what I want in return. I tend to eventually grow apart from people that tried to be what I wanted but was just putting on a facade.

    However, I do happen to behave differently with people I care about such as caring about them.

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    Default I got 99 problemz and Ignoring Fi is 1

    Hahahaha.. so...

    I've been thinking about this for awhile and wondering if this is something other EIE and ESE experience? I would describe my experience as such:

    I'm very, very personable in most informal situations and do well with altering mood, cracking jokes, lightening the emotional atmosphere..
    But when it comes to creating real bonds, I feel like I can't do it very well... to the point where I sometimes feel like I have no idea of how someone really feels towards me unless they express it on the outside all the time. This has caused me to even believe I had Fi PoLR.

    Also in terms of networking/professional settings - I find it EXTREMELY uncomfortable and I don't know how to go about it. I recently went to a professional conference with a lot of healthcare workers, etc.. My roommate (unknown type but likely Gamma/Delta quadra) was excited, loved the prospect of networking while I was terrified. I don't know how to act and always want to make jokes and be "silly"...

    It's like kind of not knowing how to behave appropriately in different social contexts.. I want to always be a certain way, but different settings call for different kinds of behaviour - like ie: I would be the one to laugh at a funeral.. actually

    Is this an Fi ignoring or even function related thing?


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Hahahaha.. so...

    I've been thinking about this for awhile and wondering if this is something other EIE and ESE experience? I would describe my experience as such:

    I'm very, very personable in most informal situations and do well with altering mood, cracking jokes, lightening the emotional atmosphere..
    But when it comes to creating real bonds, I feel like I can't do it very well... to the point where I sometimes feel like I have no idea of how someone really feels towards me unless they express it on the outside all the time. This has caused me to even believe I had Fi PoLR.

    Also in terms of networking/professional settings - I find it EXTREMELY uncomfortable and I don't know how to go about it. I recently went to a professional conference with a lot of healthcare workers, etc.. My roommate (unknown type but likely Gamma/Delta quadra) was excited, loved the prospect of networking while I was terrified. I don't know how to act and always want to make jokes and be "silly"...

    It's like kind of not knowing how to behave appropriately in different social contexts.. I want to always be a certain way, but different settings call for different kinds of behaviour - like ie: I would be the one to laugh at a funeral.. actually

    Is this an Fi ignoring or even function related thing?

    I think everyone wants to just be able to be themselves in all situations. I think that's rather universal, not type related. What's type related is in what manner people are 'being themselves.'

    Like you, I'm not so good at creating personal bonds and sometimes I have trouble knowing for sure how someone really feels about me. I have made wrong guesses now and then. I do have weak Fi and it's also unvalued. Really, I'm more interested in having a good positive emotional atmosphere when with people I'm currently interacting with moreso than creating and deep bond with them in the long run.

    I also have weak Fe, so I'm not so good at altering mood or lightning the atmosphere but its my suggestive function and I love it when people do that for me. When I do it, it's rather awkward and strange.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    The title! You put the song in my head...

    I must listen... I am not EIE but I can sort of relate to what you are saying. I feel Fe bonds more in the moment and not with everyone. Maybe some bonds are not as long lasting. I think EIE are more selective, on some level, when using Fi. Not sure how to explain it.

    I have laughed at funerals. It was not on purpose. My sister and I both looked at my grandmother in her coffin and burst out in hysterical laughing, with tears streaming down our faces. It was shock. I think. No one thought anything of it and we were young.

    I have also laughed at funerals because the others there were celebrating the person and not mourning them. I cried at my ex boyfriend's funeral. I think I was the only one who did which made me kind of sad. He came from a stoic family and that is the face they put on at his funeral. I tried to be stoic too but I could not hold back the tears and it echoed in the church. It was a spiritual experience for me.
    I never felt that much loss before, even though my best friend died a month earlier. Her funeral was more uplifting and was held in the black community even though she was white. The preacher had us all put our hands up in the air and" lift her to heaven". It was inspiring and I am not religious or comfortable in churches. Overall very good vibes there. This was her funeral song. I intuitively knew she would want. I cried like a baby but I celebrated with those who wanted to remember her as she was.





    I think I have learned from experience how to act in social situations. I think I naturally empathize but I also actively try to lift people up but only if I get the vibe that they want to be cheered or lifted up. It is a delicate balancing act and I don't always get it right either. If you have strong intuition pay attention to it and let it guide you.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    You evil, guuuuurl.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    The title! You put the song in my head...

    I must listen... I am not EIE but I can sort of relate to what you are saying. I feel Fe bonds more in the moment and not with everyone. Maybe some bonds are not as long lasting. I think EIE are more selective, on some level, when using Fi. Not sure how to explain it.

    I have laughed at funerals. It was not on purpose. My sister and I both looked at my grandmother in her coffin and burst out in hysterical laughing, with tears streaming down our faces. It was shock. I think. No one thought anything of it and we were young.

    I have also laughed at funerals because the others there were celebrating the person and not mourning them. I cried at my ex boyfriend's funeral. I think I was the only one who did which made me kind of sad. He came from a stoic family and that is the face they put on at his funeral. I tried to be stoic too but I could not hold back the tears and it echoed in the church. It was a spiritual experience for me.
    I never felt that much loss before, even though my best friend died a month earlier. Her funeral was more uplifting and was held in the black community even though she was white. The preacher had us all put our hands up in the air and" lift her to heaven". It was inspiring and I am not religious or comfortable in churches. Overall very good vibes there. This was her funeral song. I intuitively knew she would want. I cried like a baby but I celebrated with those who wanted to remember her as she was.





    I think I have learned from experience how to act in social situations. I think I naturally empathize but I also actively try to lift people up but only if I get the vibe that they want to be cheered or lifted up. It is a delicate balancing act and I don't always get it right either. If you have strong intuition pay attention to it and let it guide you.
    Made me cry.

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    I act like a spazzy social cripple to everyone I meet and I deliberately offend them and spew awkward bullshit like an Fi-PoLR, then I bleed out my man pussy when everyone else has innocent fun or if they insult me like an Fi-dom.





    zomg kindred spirit


    and shit

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    to McBain:
    That's a good description. I was wondering if that was a bit psychotic tbh (the fluctuating feelings about people, liking and disliking them from moment to moment depending on the situation) because I do that too and I have had misunderstandings with my SEE boyfriend over my changeable emotions

    ... I can't say I "hate" someone and then "love" them.. I'm not sure you meant that extreme either, maybe more to illustrate a point. But yeah, I don't do grudges at all if the person changes their affect towards me, whereas I find Fi valuing types generally take MUCH longer to change their opinion about someone. It kind of frustrates me because I feel like people deserve many chances..

    But I *do* have static feeling towards others of course - like I love my close friends, boyfriend, etc.. I just change outward surface feelings about them quicker. Agh it's hard to explain. I'm also just more fluctuating in general..

    Are Fi valuing types more likely to stay in one emotion for a longer period of time? My SEE gets annoyed when I seem to jump from angry to happy/normal again.. he tends to stay in negative emotion and requires longer time to "cool off" .. I actually noticed another likely ILE/SLE (dumb one, sadly) that changes outwardly like this too, without regard for the fact that people might not truly like him as a person because of many many things he has done..


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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Lol Ok Cubo.. Sorry I can't properly articulate what I mean and I don't mean to be stereotypical. I genuinely want to know if these are Fi related issues. Perhaps I am simplifying things.. that's why I made the thread.


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    I don't relate a ton to this--it's not like it's totally off the map, but I have formed some enduring bonds in my life so far, and it wasn't hard to do as I found the right people. My moods will fluctuate, my tolerance for a person will fluctuate, but overall I hold a clear picture of who I find them to be, and how I feel about them isn't easy to change.

    What's more likely to fluctuate than my feelings toward a person is my ability to attend to the relationship owing to practicalities.

    As for networking, it became pretty doable once I found something career-wise I was passionate about. Networking was at that time an outgrowth of my job. Doing it for its own sake isn't all that inspiring because it feels grimly artificial. In those situations I seek out the one or two people in the room / at the event whom I can have a really meaningful connection to. I do that all the time, though.

    I have a sense this isn't necessarily about Fi.

    I shape the atmosphere because it's like a default responsibility or something, I guess. But it's more like by keeping order, I'm somehow better at figuring out who might matter to me. People seem to sort themselves better.

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    Dragoon/Genie/Dancer Shazaam's Avatar
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    Well intimacy is created by honesty. Yeah you can try to make a bunch of objective fake friends by talking about some movie everybody saw. But your real friends are the ones as cheesy as it sounds 'get your heart.'

    You only get somebody to accept the real you by taking risks and being open about what emotionally bothers you, not making witty quips about pop songs. Don't get me wrong I love stuff like that too. I have found close friends often share a lot of the same struggles and personal vulnerabilities, they are sort of 'weak against' and 'strong against' similar elements. And they feel a close bond.

    But really they are just loving themselves, cuz all love comes from within and all love is narcissistic in a way. We really do love people who are like ourselves, and get our vulnerabilities. But ironically these are also the same type of people that know how to easily cut us when pissed off or going through something themselves. So that's why we all run and hide, and make jokes etc.

    It takes a lot of bravery to be who you are. Katy Perry makes it sound easy but in truth, you know that it's also going to cause you pain. That's the ultimate question of humanity I think, is pain worth the trouble of love? Cuz another deep wisdom is that pain and love are so deeply integrated.

    Anyway it's a step by step process. You don't just become vulnerable all at once. Maybe instead next time try complaining about something that irritates u, even if that is perceived by most people as playing the victim. Let's say you get punched in the throat by it by... 50 people. Okay that just means on THAT particular topic, you couldn't trust your heart with that person on that one itty bitty thing. But we just never know until it happens! And people can still surprise us, who we thought had our back actually didn't and the person who we didn't expect it showed us pure empathy in that moment. And you can use all this stuff, to better gauge your boundaries so you keep feeling vulnerable in the good way naturally over the time and not the creepy bad way.

    I also think it's a gender thing. Women by nature need to be self-protective and mysterious and not give it all away. They can't be showy like men cuz it goes against nature from a scientific standpoint. My grandma always said men are like flamboyant peacocks. Women (perhaps primarily heterosexual women?) tend to be really reserved, and guarded. Even the extroverted ones. They don't really share any deep pain shit.

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    There was a time when there were so many Fe users on here...

    I kind of related to the stuff on here. It's not really all that complex or secret.


    I'm very, very personable in most informal situations and do well with altering mood, cracking jokes, lightening the emotional atmosphere..
    But when it comes to creating real bonds, I feel like I can't do it very well... to the point where I sometimes feel like I have no idea of how someone really feels towards me unless they express it on the outside all the time. This has caused me to even believe I had Fi PoLR.
    I was wondering if that was a bit psychotic tbh (the fluctuating feelings about people, liking and disliking them from moment to moment depending on the situation)
    These two quotes made a lot of sense to me.

    Dominant Fe can be kind of gross and creepy, I want to get a reaction from someone like to say someone is laughing at my jokes are they are flirting with me. I will want to get more from them even if I don't care about them or don't even like them. I just want everyone to like me. It's a pretty pathetic way to live in the end.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    There was a time when there were so many Fe users on here...

    I kind of related to the stuff on here. It's not really all that complex or secret.



    These two quotes made a lot of sense to me.

    Dominant Fe can be kind of gross and creepy, I want to get a reaction from someone like to say someone is laughing at my jokes are they are flirting with me. I will want to get more from them even if I don't care about them or don't even like them. I just want everyone to like me. It's a pretty pathetic way to live in the end.

    My problem is that I have the uncanny ability of getting people to open up to me in the beginning and then I start feeling uncomfortable/suffocated so I make light of things a lot. There are only a select few who I can endure a consistent "deep" connection. I assume that's ignoring Fi?

    I also seem to mostly get stuck on people who I can't quite figure out or who treat me like utter shit. Everyone else is just neutral to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    My problem is that I have the uncanny ability of getting people to open up to me in the beginning and then I start feeling uncomfortable/suffocated so I make light of things a lot. There are only a select few who I can endure a consistent "deep" connection. I assume that's ignoring Fi?.......
    I look at what you describe as an inability to detach from the person or conversation, and look at a broader picture in an objective fashion. Ejs often try to force people to narrow down on subjects and go deep so as to get points resolved quickly. Suffocation can occur when the other person starts to muddy the water by being evasive, or bringing in what-ifs and yes-buts - adding complexity to what some Ejs might consider cut and dried. I've known EXEs to make too light of things; many times, it feels too light to be real so I try to slow down their pace or throw them off so that I can better figure out their issues or games. Many find it hard to endure Ej impatience and occasional tunnel-vision without practice.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I look at what you describe as an inability to detach from the person or conversation, and look at a broader picture in an objective fashion. Ejs often try to force people to narrow down on subjects and go deep so as to get points resolved quickly. Suffocation can occur when the other person starts to muddy the water by being evasive, or bringing in what-ifs and yes-buts - adding complexity to what some Ejs might consider cut and dried. I've known EXEs to make too light of things; many times, it feels too light to be real so I try to slow down their pace or throw them off so that I can better figure out their issues or games. Many find it hard to endure Ej impatience and occasional narrow-mindedness without practice.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Do you happen to have advices about how to throw them off or slow down their pace?
    I could use some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    I also seem to mostly get stuck on people who I can't quite figure out or who treat me like utter shit. Everyone else is just neutral to me.
    This happens to me a lot too, I hope it's not type related.
    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I look at what you describe as an inability to detach from the person or conversation, and look at a broader picture in an objective fashion. Ejs often try to force people to narrow down on subjects and go deep so as to get points resolved quickly. Suffocation can occur when the other person starts to muddy the water by being evasive, or bringing in what-ifs and yes-buts - adding complexity to what some Ejs might consider cut and dried. I've known EXEs to make too light of things; many times, it feels too light to be real so I try to slow down their pace or throw them off so that I can better figure out their issues or games. Many find it hard to endure Ej impatience and occasional tunnel-vision without practice.

    a.k.a. I/O
    That makes sense. I think my issue lies more in the realm of "I go too deep too fast" and it seems the other party wants to me to continue the momentum but I abruptly back out due to realizing an emotional change. I get exciteable in the beginning but then falter... I guess I unintentionally emotionally lead people on because I get a momentary emotional high from the connection. However, there are only a few people, I like to maintain the connection. Are we saying the same thing in different ways?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eudaimonia View Post
    This happens to me a lot too, I hope it's not type related.
    I think it can be type-related in the sense that EIEs get stimulation from being surrounded by all types of people. We catch onto most people because the Fe is always testing cause and effect with external stimuli and people. So we often have a vast mental archive of behavioral patterns. And when there is an affront to our understanding of human nature, we can become fixated like needing to solve an interpersonal puzzle. It's almost like an itch that needs to be scratched but EIEs can have a tendency to go ham until things are resolved or feel satisfied with the answer.

    I have noticed that if someone is blatantly manipulating me or low-balling me, they become non-existent to me. But the inconsistencies is what can suck me in if I am not careful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mew View Post
    Do you happen to have advices about how to throw them off or slow down their pace?
    I could use some.
    It takes practice and I don't have the ambition to explain it properly. Broadly, move the conversation to them and their motivations but steer away from the useless boilerplate that many throw at you (it's usually recognizable). They tend to be control freaks so take control of the conversation from them. They have objectives but rarely look at anything or anybody objectively especially themselves so give them objectivity. They can be indirect in their approach and rather touchy-feely so remain aloof and be direct - don't mince words. If they seem to have a game, don't play it. One sign of a concerning issue may be over-the-top lightness or cheerfulness.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    It takes practice and I don't have the ambition to explain it properly. Broadly, move the conversation to them and their motivations but steer away from the useless boilerplate that many throw at you (it's usually recognizable). They tend to be control freaks so take control of the conversation from them. They have objectives but rarely look at anything or anybody objectively especially themselves so give them objectivity. They can be indirect in their approach and rather touchy-feely so remain aloof and be direct - don't mince words. If they seem to have a game, don't play it. One sign of a concerning issue may be over-the-top lightness or cheerfulness.

    a.k.a. I/O

    With mind distracted, never thinking, "Death is coming,"
    To slave away on the pointless business of mundane life,
    And then to come out empty--it is a tragic error.
    ENFJ | EIE | WEPL | 3w4 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    It takes practice and I don't have the ambition to explain it properly. Broadly, move the conversation to them and their motivations but steer away from the useless boilerplate that many throw at you (it's usually recognizable). They tend to be control freaks so take control of the conversation from them. They have objectives but rarely look at anything or anybody objectively especially themselves so give them objectivity. They can be indirect in their approach and rather touchy-feely so remain aloof and be direct - don't mince words. If they seem to have a game, don't play it. One sign of a concerning issue may be over-the-top lightness or cheerfulness.

    a.k.a. I/O
    That's true a lot of the time but the older EIEs (after 20s) usually know how to cater the emotionality level to the recipient unless they are air-headed karen types/have underlying emotional issues. It's almost like a forced role Te facade (people can pick up on it if they are actually paying attention).

    At least that's been my observation with Fe leads


    EDIT: What I was referring to earlier was if people emotionally unload their darker parts of their pasts or engage in super serious topics in general, I try to be present and there for them but there's a part of that wants to ease the heaviness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    That makes sense. I think my issue lies more in the realm of "I go too deep too fast" and it seems the other party wants to me to continue the momentum but I abruptly back out due to realizing an emotional change. I get exciteable in the beginning but then falter... I guess I unintentionally emotionally lead people on because I get a momentary emotional high from the connection. However, there are only a few people, I like to maintain the connection. Are we saying the same thing in different ways?
    "Control the conversation" and "lead people on" imply two very different concepts; the latter isn't type related. Cat-and-mouse games (if that's what you're implying) tend to be baggage related. Generally, EIEs go deep fast but need to come up for air and they don't like being kept deep against their will because that means they've lost control.

    a.k.a. I/O

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