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Thread: Fi ignoring/Fe leading and adapting behavior for ENFjs and ESFjs

  1. #41
    EIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    "Control the conversation" and "lead people on" imply two very different concepts; the latter isn't type related. Cat-and-mouse games (if that's what you're implying) tend to be baggage related. Generally, EIEs go deep fast but need to come up for air and they don't like being kept deep against their will because that means they've lost control.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I concede on the baggage point but I disagree on the "loss of control" aspect. I just don't like dealing with people's existential angst for too long... It's exhausting and I would rather expend that emotional energy elsewhere.

    Leading people on refers to the idea that people will think that our connection is deeper than it is and then I back out when I am not feeling it anymore. Controlling the conversation and leading people on aren't mutually exclusive... Just not the healthiest way to go about things.

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    Caveat: The leading on is usually unintentional. Fe leads often get just get excited to know people. So there is an infectious enthusiasm in the very beginning. But we can also be very moody so our feelings can be kind of fleeting unless we really really adore you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    ....... I just don't like dealing with people's existential angst for too long... It's exhausting and I would rather expend that emotional energy elsewhere.
    ....... Controlling the conversation and leading people on aren't mutually exclusive....
    I think that your first line above refers to the inability to detach, and is very common among most Ejs. Ijs and Eps seem to make better analysts.
    Referring to the second line above, I know they integrate but I like keep the two separate for analysis purposes.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I think that your first line above refers to the inability to detach, and is very common among most Ejs. Ijs and Eps seem to make better analysts.
    Referring to the second line above, I know they integrate but I like keep the two separate for analysis purposes.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Ok sounds good! The Ej analysis can get most definitely muddy when they are tied to direct outcomes. We are probably the least objective when it comes to personal goals and outcomes. But when there's no stake in the game, the openness to outside parameters can make EJs better analysts in certain situations. Ijs can sometimes have a narrow scope of understanding highly dependent on the parameters and definitions. However, if they have an ever-evolving thirst for knowledge and understanding, they can be some of the most on-point analysts out there.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    If they seem to have a game, don't play it. One sign of a concerning issue may be over-the-top lightness or cheerfulness.
    This is no fun
    “Preferiría no hacerlo”

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    Quote Originally Posted by EIE View Post
    ........ the openness to outside parameters can make EJs better analysts in certain situations. Ijs can sometimes have a narrow scope of understanding .......
    Ejs are excellent at ferreting out information; homing in on solutions and rolling with the punches; they have many desirable processing abilities and are certainly action oriented. I doubt though that their cognitive toolboxes or patience will permit them adequate analysis of total situations although I'm sure that they could make a good stab at it when all else fails. They shine in dynamic situations that require ad hoc performances. Some Ijs can have so broad a focus that they fail to comprehend soon enough (if at all) for it to be useful so "narrow scope" doesn't really apply. Many Ijs like routine and others end up living in ruts because it helps them narrow their scope and perhaps make their worlds a little less daunting.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Ejs are excellent at ferreting out information;
    this is more indicable of EP temperaments since they have Ne or Se as their leading perceiving function

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    they have many desirable processing abilities and are certainly action oriented.
    being action oriented has more to do with Se.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    homing in on solutions
    indicative of Ti

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    and rolling with the punches;
    indicative of Se's flexible and on the spot thinking and acting, especially Se leads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    They shine in dynamic situations that require ad hoc performances.
    EPs shine better in dynamic (and therefore unpredictable) situations because of their ''flexible/maneuvering'' qualities. Pe functions are natural improvisers, whereas Je functions are more routinely oriented.
    Fe and Te attach to common known facts (te) and customs (fe). those are not necessarily vital when it comes to improvising/thinking on the spot as much as seeing the whole picture instantly (Se) or seeing new opportunities (Ne).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    a.k.a. I/O
    just put it in a signature bro
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    this is more indicable of EP temperaments since they have Ne or Se as their leading perceiving function
    being action oriented has more to do with Se.

    indicative of Ti

    indicative of Se's flexible and on the spot thinking and acting, especially Se leads.

    EPs shine better in dynamic (and therefore unpredictable) situations because of their ''flexible/maneuvering'' qualities. Pe functions are natural improvisers, whereas Je functions are more routinely oriented.
    Fe and Te attach to common known facts (te) and customs (fe). those are not necessarily vital when it comes to improvising/thinking on the spot as much as seeing the whole picture instantly (Se) or seeing new opportunities (Ne).

    just put it in a signature bro
    Se and Ne-leading are nosy but not action oriented in the situation-control sense; they can be very reactionary if cornered and are dynamic in game-like activities but that's where it ends. SLEs can be knights but are too detached and reactionary to control many dynamic situations - single purpose missions like slash-and-burn, they would be good at. Homing in on something is more closed-loop functioning and Ti isn't in such a configuration, and rolling-with-the-punches doesn't refer to kamikaze activities. You cannot have seen equal-status LSEs and SLEs going at it in meetings; the latter only seems to win when occupying positions of greater power. I addressed the signature in other posts.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Se leading are nosy but not action oriented in the situation-control sense
    He feels the need to influence people, to control their desires and actions. - Gulenko on SLE
    source:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20210108202041/http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=SLE_Profile_by_Gulenko

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Se leading are nosy but not action oriented in the situation-control sense
    Zhukov’s message to his troops, if not exactly inspirational, had the virtue of clarity: “All commanders, political workers, and soldiers who abandon the indicated line without written order from the front or military council will be shot immediately.” By organizing a deep, echeloned defense of the city with dense minefields, he managed to stabilize the front. “In less than a month, Zhukov had mastered the gravest crisis, organized an effective defense, and repaired morale, as well as restoring discipline which had crumpled disastrously before his arrival,” Roberts quotes Erickson as saying. The American military historian David Glantz spoke of “the miracle on the Neva.”
    source: https://www.hoover.org/research/zhukov-soviet-general



    Google on dynamic:
    dynamic

    adjective




    • 1.
      (of a process or system) characterized by constant change, activity, or progress.
      "a dynamic economy"
    • 2.
      (of a person) positive in attitude and full of energy and new ideas.
      "a dynamic young advertising executive"




    On EJ temperament: ''They are sharp and implacable, and their actions are totally predictable. They often end up being the victims of the surroundings – non-dutiful other people, unstable situations and chaotic occurrences.''
    source: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...8-Temperaments

    ''Dislikes sudden, abrupt changes'' - Viktor Gulenko on LSE in his LSE description
    https://web.archive.org/web/20201112...ile_by_Gulenko


    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    You cannot have seen equal-status LSEs and SLEs going at it in meetings; the latter only seems to win when occupying positions of greater power.
    maybe before you spew ur gibberish on this forum for new readers to be misled, get your facts from actual sources instead of your biased LSE-dicksucking POV.
    Last edited by Number 9 large; 09-19-2021 at 11:37 PM.
    ~ ESTP ~ SLE ~ 7w8 ~ Sp/Sx ~ Fire ~ Aries ~ Beta ~ Gryffindor ~ Summer ~ SLUEN ~

  10. #50
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    @Number 9 large I have stated many times from the beginning that I do not adhere to any existing modelling; my comments are based on control system structures. Your defence of what other people have said just tells me that you won't agree with anything that I have to say. I'll never be quoting from any Socionics bible so my comments will likely never meet your standards. Because they seem to irritate, I suggest not reading them at all.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    From my pov it seems that EXEs thrive when they feel a connection to a group of people. It suits them well because they know how to take everybody's taste and opinions into consideration to pull the group in a direction that satisfies the biggest number.

    "Altering" your behavior to best appeal to whomever is the downside of that I guess. But in my opinion it's only a downside if it tricks the EXE into disregarding their own feelings, comfort or opinions just to please others. It's a matter of balance.

    Because they tend to be so selfless EXEs need to only invest in people who truly appreciate everything they give out and to practice kicking toxic people out of their lives without looking back.

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