Ip temperament types - a pain in the ass??

[ladyinred]

Ips can be --
- lazy
- don't want to follow a plan unless it's the Ip person's own idea
- 'go with the flow,' but still can be quite stubborn and unpredictable

do people of other temperaments, especially Ej, regularly get pissed off with Ips for being a pain in the ass??

[Sir Knight]

I don't see why any of those traits are worth labeling someone a pain in the ass.

[ladyinred]

I don't see why any of those traits are worth labeling someone a pain in the ass.

maybe is related to type to perceive them this way, this is what an ESE recently said about an SEI, that he was a pain in the ass for reasons such as these

[EyeSeeCold]

maybe is related to type to perceive them this way, this is what an ESE recently said about an SEI, that he was a pain in the ass for reasons such as these

As if anything an ESE says makes sense.

I'm only a pain in the ass to tight asses, so loosen up.

[Sir Knight]

aixelsyd's got it. Whatever type a person may be, there is still a huge variance between people of the same type. No one person is going to fit perfectly into the box Socionics prescribes for them.

So while that specific SEI may be a pain in the ass, there are other SEIs who can carry their own weight at work and be agreeable with the plans of others.

...and, who knows, perhaps there are SEIs who are even worse than that.

[ladyinred]

Not for those reasons and usually it's not related to temperament if I think someone is a pain in the ass. Plenty of lazy Ejs (who also boss everyone around to the point I will become confrontational for them being hypocritical jerk-offs). Plenty of hardworking Ips (even the ones with Te PoLR ).

But yeah. Those traits can be annoying, but I don't relate them to a particular temperament. I actually like their quiet easy-goingness as it calms me down since I am usually a bundle of emotional stress who has a hard time keeping it contained (and when I try, people back off as I tend to look a lot meaner than I am).

i see, yes i know some lazy Ejs too, one LIE in particular, i just wondered if Ips are generally perceived that way by other temperaments

As if anything an ESE says makes sense.

I'm only a pain in the ass to tight asses, so loosen up.

hahaha, conflictor love

[jessica129]

Generally speaking, they stress me out. Sometimes it's refreshing but I can get irritated pretty fast. Not having much of a direction when it comes to anything really unsettles me.

[Sir Knight]

Well I'd say not having any long term goals in life really unsettles me too, for what it's worth.

[jessica129]

Well I'd say not having any long term goals in life really unsettles me too, for what it's worth.

I guess with IP's, I get the impression that whatever happens, happens. Whatever they become or don't become is okay with them, that it doesn't matter. That not much matters. I know it's more than likely not the case and that's not how they really feel on the inside, but that's how most of them come across to me.

[Park]

Well, you first need to feel it in your ass, and then decide for yourself.

[Azeroffs]

It's a matter of perspective. To EJs, probably, EPs not so much.

They aren't particularly more of pain than any other conflicting temperament.

[Sir Knight]

I can definitely see how you would get that impression. I can often feel overwhelmed by the kind of fatalism you describe. There's always a kind of Memento Mori-style time pressure to do something positive with my life before I die, but the thought of getting a regular 9-5 job, getting married, raising children, going on vacations, buying a house, getting promoted, all that... It just feels so tiring. So tedious.

I have the next eighty or so years to do something with myself but then why bother when its all going to be rendered meaningless when I die?

I guess its a big drawback of having a dynamic worldview: if it feels like everything is always in flux, how do you dredge up something solid and permanent?

[EyeSeeCold]

I can definitely see how you would get that impression. I can often feel overwhelmed by the kind of fatalism you describe. There's always a kind of Memento Mori-style time pressure to do something positive with my life before I die, but the thought of getting a regular 9-5 job, getting married, raising children, going on vacations, buying a house, getting promoted, all that... It just feels so tiring. So tedious.

I have the next eighty or so years to do something with myself but then why bother when its all going to be rendered meaningless when I die?

I guess its a big drawback of having a dynamic worldview: if it feels like everything is always in flux, how do you dredge up something solid and permanent?

[jessica129]

I can definitely see how you would get that impression. I can often feel overwhelmed by the kind of fatalism you describe. There's always a kind of Memento Mori-style time pressure to do something positive with my life before I die, but the thought of getting a regular 9-5 job, getting married, raising children, going on vacations, buying a house, getting promoted, all that... It just feels so tiring. So tedious.

Those aren't my goals, either. My goals in life are to NOT become something like what you describe here. That way of life is too easy for me and for anyone else. I could very well sink into that without trying...most people don't have to try when it comes to that and it's sad to me. Have goals, have passions, have a LIFE. If raising kids and having a 9-5 job is your definition of a life, okay...great. But you don't have to be that person just because it's "normal". So many people think that's all there is to life...I see it daily and it depresses me that most don't want that for themselves but they're too damn lazy to do anything about it. Knowing I won't turn out that way gives me a little inner satisfaction.

I have the next eighty or so years to do something with myself but then why bother when its all going to be rendered meaningless when I die?

So why are you living?

[redbaron]

love this, aixelsyd!

[Sir Knight]

Yeah, I bring those things up since they are touted as the kind of baseline standard for life success. There's always a kind of stigma around being single, not having children after a certain age, over being smart but not doing anything with it and so on. Not that I worship at the feet of cultural convention, but, well, when that's the only metric for success that you've been supped on, the question that immediately comes to mind is, "Well what else is there?"

I mean, I don't want to spend my life doing nothing but keeping myself alive. Working a shit job for a shit pay check to keep bread on my table for the next sixty years sounds even more tedious than following the checklist for cultural success. I mean, I know its the little moments in between all the labour that make life worthwhile, but when I can't really see what I'm going to fill those moments with, the work looms all the larger in my mind until that's all I can see for me in the future: constant labour until I die.

I'd really rather find something more to devote myself to beyond just keeping myself alive. What that will be, I have no idea, but hopefully it'll be something good.

As for why I'm still living, well, I think that question taken in tandem with "What makes me happy" are going to be the two questions that will define my life in the answering of them.

Anyways, I think I need to make a visit to the social hardware store, get me a big gaw-damn sledge hammer and break me down some walls.

[jessica129]

Yeah, I bring those things up since they are touted as the kind of baseline standard for life success. There's always a kind of stigma around being single, not having children after a certain age, over being smart but not doing anything with it and so on. Not that I worship at the feet of cultural convention, but, well, when that's the only metric for success that you've been supped on, the question that immediately comes to mind is, "Well what else is there?"

I mean, I don't want to spend my life doing nothing but keeping myself alive. Working a shit job for a shit pay check to keep bread on my table for the next sixty years sounds even more tedious than following the checklist for cultural success. I mean, I know its the little moments in between all the labour that make life worthwhile, but when I can't really see what I'm going to fill those moments with, the work looms all the larger in my mind until that's all I can see for me in the future: constant labour until I die.

I'd really rather find something more to devote myself to beyond just keeping myself alive. What that will be, I have no idea, but hopefully it'll be something good.

As for why I'm still living, well, I think that question taken in tandem with "What makes me happy" are going to be the two questions that will define my life in the answering of them.

Anyways, I think I need to make a visit to the social hardware store, get me a big gaw-damn sledge hammer and break me down some walls.

I identify a lot with what you wrote. I wasn't meaning to be harsh to you or anything. I feel a lot like you and I think the majority of people do but they just give up on life and do what's "the norm". I think the only way I'd ever really truely be happy would be if i were to take a handful of people I enjoy and my cats and go live on a secluded island and never deal with jobs and expectations and money and people and the drama they bring and this and that.

[ladyinred]

Those aren't my goals, either. My goals in life are to NOT become something like what you describe here. That way of life is too easy for me and for anyone else. I could very well sink into that without trying...most people don't have to try when it comes to that and it's sad to me. Have goals, have passions, have a LIFE. If raising kids and having a 9-5 job is your definition of a life, okay...great. But you don't have to be that person just because it's "normal". So many people think that's all there is to life...I see it daily and it depresses me that most don't want that for themselves but they're too damn lazy to do anything about it. Knowing I won't turn out that way gives me a little inner satisfaction.

yes, yes, YES!

[Sir Knight]

*

No, no harshness taken here. I think my path to true happiness is going to involve figuring out just what it is I'm passionate about and maybe finding some way to profit from that without having to sacrifice what made me passionate in the first place. You know, if that's not too much to ask.

[Simon Ssmall]

Lol, id say Ej types are usually pain in the ass, definatelly not Ip's

[FDG]

Nope, not really. If I do get pissed off, it's generally towards other EJs (especially ESTjs) that try to impose on me some of their "plans". I don't even think IPs are particularly lazy tbh.

[Aiss]

What Ssmall and FDG said. Ip ways might annoy you, but at least they won't enforce them on others *khemEjkhem*.

But honestly, when having to deal with someone, opposing rationality can be a huge issue, second only to valuing and non-socionics-related incompatibility. I'd expect Ej to be out of patience with Ip quickly, though supervisor would probably be able to get away with more.

[Aleksei]

I'm pretty lazy, but the depths of the laziness of some of my IP friends (One IEI and his SEI cousin in particular) sometimes astound me.

[717495]

Actually, as read on some other forum, I agree with the idea that IPs can kind of put on an automatic display of "going with the flow" so they can deal with people and not seem like a pain in the ass, but its really just a learned trait they're kind of unconscious of or can't control. IPs were basically defined as the most creative temperament, that they need that kind of unconscious defense mechanism so they can function in society, while really being their weird self on the inside. Not sure if I worded any of this hypercorrectly, though thats the impression I got from reading it.

I see something similar for IJs, however its more about keeping their opinions consistent (truth or relations) while actually exploring, analyzing and changing their thoughts or feelings on the inside. The static aspect comes from these things not being updated frequently, so IJs will tend to say something or do something without believing in it anymore, why they can sign up for gymnastics or something and stick with it for a long time, where as an IP might try to find a new source to get them out of it, a tangible excuse, so it seems like the right thing to do (Te/Fe related).

With IXTp, its obviously Fe-PoLR-ish in nature, so the go-with-the-flow aspect of really being an automatic reaction to EJ-creative, is in reflection to things making sense, an "easy" reaction to logical action so they can continue to be IP non-extroverts. We might not be all that conscious of the points made, but we'll likely agree with them as to not "disturb" our inner thoughts. Likewise, IXFp might have more of a disconnect with what people are saying is logical to do but follow all the social graces without really realizing it much, where as an IXTp will be more socially disconnected but have a logical robotic quality (for lack of better word) that melds nicely with Te-values, purely on the outside. What's cool about IP "go with the flow" is it is rather an act to partly cover up our PoLR too. If you interact with IPs more, and sort of push their buttons, you'll start to realize there's obvious something wrong there.

IJs on the other hand, like described, I get a feeling that is more "this is what I expect of myself" performance or opinion wise. So even if its not in tandem with extroverted values, its still consistent. There's definitely more of a frictional or brushing affect with IJs and reality, which is why I guess they're described as "reactive."

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

There's no point in doing work unless it's spiritually gratifying. Because all work is really for somebody else's expense: ie you're just doing it so some cocksucker republican straight man with no heart on top of a HUGE building can do whatever he wants in life. Don't be naive. And those people need to be stood up to.

Just think. They call it WORKING CLASS becaues it's lower than the ELITE. If Miley Cyrus and rich stuck up people don't have to do real work, then Sam Leonard doesn't have to either. You know why? Because I'm just as good as them. That's right. I refuse to lower my standards to make somebody else more powerful. Hehe.

I'm not afraid of a little hard work. I will shovel the snow if it needs shoveling. I will do chores if they need doing. But if other people can get away with just having a good mind and lazily sitting in their office, so can I. If other people can get rich off the labor of other people then I can too. If you want to make me an 'example' you have to do that with everybody or it's not fair.

[krieger]

i wouldn't list inertia or laziness among their most irritating qualities. A lot of IP types I come across are actually harder workers than I am. In particular they seem to shy away from detail-work less than people of other types. Their ability to focus on such problems is probably the strongest of all the temperaments. Several of the classical descriptions list this as characteristic of the four types.

What I would say irritates me about them is the way they raise the impression of being wise, impartial and deferring judgment when at the same time they apply a huge range of implicit prejudices in their way of framing things. They aren't really any less fanatical in their beliefs than the other types. They just have this way of making their dogmas fly under the radar by not lending them direct expression. This adds an further dimension of treachery to the act.

[717495]

ISxps definitely more than INxps for activity. Some Si doms tell me its good for their senses, like I should always be exercising, it does well for the mind body and spirit. For me it's not really necessary, it doesn't have the same affect. So I tend to see INxPs as the laziest types.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

What's cool about IP "go with the flow" is it is rather an act to partly cover up our PoLR too. If you interact with IPs more, and sort of push their buttons, you'll start to realize there's obvious something wrong there.

What utter bullshit. You're (General you cuz you're an ip too?) are not getting really under my skin you just think you are. If the only criticism people have about me is something that I already am objectively aware of, then you didn't butthurt my polr. I know it makes people feel manly to one up people but you didn't actually do it. Try again.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

So I tend to see INxPs as the laziest types.

Maybe you're right in a way but if you move your body more you are bound to have more energy regardless. Maybe you're just doing it wrong or maybe you have physical problems that prevent you from exercizing, Idk - but honestly it has that same energizing effect on anybody. The thing is we will still be kinda undirected with it the way ips are. If you exercise, your body will naturally want to be energetic because it's a non-ego thing really and has nothing to do with the mind. The more you do the more you want to do. The more you do nothing , the more you want to just do nothing. It builds on itself. You know why people suck at math? Because it's a *drill* and not many people like repetition and drills.

The thing is ej is already planning a business scheme or something whereas the ip is just sort of being energetic with nowhere to go. That's possible. Just because you're motivated and energetic and alive doesn't mean anything is going to happen of course, it's just a feeling. And ejs make money and outward success out of the ass while being just as lazy as ips, their mind is just different and they have a different egoic perspective. They're not actually being 'hard workers' or putting more effort than you.

So everybody feels energetic with physical activity, but IPs usually just end up being satisfied that they feel more 'alive' in the artistic sense, and might then do something personally meaningful or just do something they always wanted to do but held themselves back on. Then, they will have the insight with it and carry with it for a long time. With ej its more like "God who gives a shit, I want to look at my bank account." Something that I know would NOT bring me happiness and something that I'd care two shits about -- otherwise I'd just do it like they do. ((of course I like having stuff but only when my cute boyfriend buys me it. <3))

[717495]

What utter bullshit. You're (General you cuz you're an ip too?) are not getting really under my skin you just think you are. If the only criticism people have about me is something that I already am objectively aware of, then you didn't butthurt my polr. I know it makes people feel manly to one up people but you didn't actually do it. Try again.

Yeah, I agree. It doesn't really bother me, they make it seem like it bothers them more. But it can be annoying if repeatedly expressed.

Also, with INxP laziness, being dominant Ni, it just seems like sensing isn't a very big priority, so I tend to see that ISxPs will be more normalized to want to engage in activity, even if its in an Si way. Same idea goes for other types, there's always something. With INxPs there's not really a normal primary factor there, which doesn't mean some aren't conscious of it and want to do something about it. I agree with what you're saying for any improvements, best to just start doing it and not make any excuses.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I'd expect Ej to be out of patience with Ip quickly, though supervisor would probably be able to get away with more.

Aiss, this is wrong. Ugh. When Ashton is annoying me, I feel powerful and self confident enough to leave the room. I just leave if asston is bugging me he doesn't 'cripple me in place with his manly ej powers.' They can't get away with it because I will just remove myself from the situation. Of course Ashton hurt my feelings before, he has done that with everybody. He's Asston (copyright crazedrat) what do you expect? (God I love my infp butt buddies krae and crazed rat my infp homeboys i love u so much) And Nick when he's not being an ass.

Do you really think that I will just sit there and let somebody abuse me ? Just because I'm passive and shy and I have a big heart? Well fuck you for making that assumption. And fuck all women for thinking that I'm weaker because I don't want to abuse you like straight male asston. And fuck everybody in the world that thinks I'm weaker just because I don't light stray cats on fire like ghetto sociopathic straight boys.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

With INxPs there's not really a normal primary factor there, which doesn't mean some aren't conscious of it and want to do something about it.

I just kinda want to make it clear that you only 'get to me' if you make me aware of something that I was doing subjectively without even being conscious about it. Then I'd be like 'Oooh' (and it's usually only betas that can get me to realize this) If you call me a lazy fag that can't get a real job, that would never hurt my feelings or 'get to me' because I'm already too aware of it. And people that can 'get to me' have also done things that got to my heart as well. So it's usually a sudden thing.

This makes me lol. On cam one time people thought I was this fragile emo flower that was actually being bothered by what asston said but I really wasn't. no really.... it didn't. It annoyed me because it simply wasn't true. Again if you think I'm weak because im infp you're the asshole with the problem. <3

I am not weak just because I'm emotionally honest. I'm not weak just cuz I'd rather fuck boys then women. So FUCK YOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU WORLD. hehe

okay that felt good. I'm better now. *halo*

[marooned]

The problem I seem to have with Ejs (or perhaps better put as the problem they have with me), which is maybe more with XSEs, possibly, is that they often (especially ESEs) seem to expect immediate action/reaction to every little thing (everything must be handled at once... and sometimes it's not even that I'm being lazy but that I think there's a better time to do it than at once, although other times it just isn't a priority to me at all especially if it has something to do with things around me). The other problem is that they seem to be constantly active which just generally wears me out. My LSE uncle spends a lot of time biking and hiking, etc. and days with him and the relatives are horribly boring/overly taxing because it's just this long itinerary of things to do (boring things to do like visit wool coat shops or bike shops or historical spots that are kind of interesting and I'm glad I saw them afterwards, but aren't really that big of a deal and I'd suffer no regrets if on my death bed someone showed me a long list of these places and I realized I'd never seen them... I don't think I'd care at all... although actually I would regret never spending time with my uncle, and that's why I go along with these things). Anyway I think that I just like sitting with someone for several hours and talking (when you're constantly doing things there's no time to talk or discuss what you've been thinking about lately). I also have trouble sustaining conversations with my ESE mom who seems to jump up every two seconds and then eventually restlessly suggests something boring we could do like visit a rose garden. I think my talking bores her to some extent.

It's like they have to be constant almost like engines... it's either straight go-go-go or flat nothing... it doesn't weave in and out (if that makes sense). It also stream rolls more... not moving around and changing as things change. Unfortunately I have to catch a bus so I won't be able to edit this post 20 million times adding more crap to it.

[Lobo]

I generally don't find Ips a pain in the ass at all, if anything irritating at times. These two particularly stood out to me, because I've had similar impressions:

I guess with IP's, I get the impression that whatever happens, happens. Whatever they become or don't become is okay with them, that it doesn't matter. That not much matters. I know it's more than likely not the case and that's not how they really feel on the inside, but that's how most of them come across to me.

I get a sense of becoming apathetic to things that require work.

...
What I would say irritates me about them is the way they raise the impression of being wise, impartial and deferring judgment when at the same time they apply a huge range of implicit prejudices in their way of framing things. They aren't really any less fanatical in their beliefs than the other types. They just have this way of making their dogmas fly under the radar by not lending them direct expression. This adds an further dimension of treachery to the act.

[scissors]

Yes... I do find IP types frustrating mostly because I can understand their way of dealing with life.

Most frustrating for me is the "wait and see attitude" they tend to adopt when they have to make a big decision in order to avoid actually having to make a decision and get moving.

It drives me crazy because I just can't understand that way of operating - my instinct is to make a decision, or a plan or just do something - quickly!!!

I don't think IP types are lazy but I do think they can be very passive at times and I think this is due to their resistance to make decisions. Once a decision is made (either by themselves or by circumstances from their waiting) they can be very active.

[ladyinred]

I'm pretty lazy, but the depths of the laziness of some of my IP friends (One IEI and his SEI cousin in particular) sometimes astound me.

i think i know what you mean

Maybe you're right in a way but if you move your body more you are bound to have more energy regardless. Maybe you're just doing it wrong or maybe you have physical problems that prevent you from exercizing, Idk - but honestly it has that same energizing effect on anybody. The thing is we will still be kinda undirected with it the way ips are. If you exercise, your body will naturally want to be energetic because it's a non-ego thing really and has nothing to do with the mind. The more you do the more you want to do. The more you do nothing , the more you want to just do nothing. It builds on itself. You know why people suck at math? Because it's a *drill* and not many people like repetition and drills.

The thing is ej is already planning a business scheme or something whereas the ip is just sort of being energetic with nowhere to go. That's possible. Just because you're motivated and energetic and alive doesn't mean anything is going to happen of course, it's just a feeling. And ejs make money and outward success out of the ass while being just as lazy as ips, their mind is just different and they have a different egoic perspective. They're not actually being 'hard workers' or putting more effort than you.

So everybody feels energetic with physical activity, but IPs usually just end up being satisfied that they feel more 'alive' in the artistic sense, and might then do something personally meaningful or just do something they always wanted to do but held themselves back on. Then, they will have the insight with it and carry with it for a long time. With ej its more like "God who gives a shit, I want to look at my bank account." Something that I know would NOT bring me happiness and something that I'd care two shits about -- otherwise I'd just do it like they do. ((of course I like having stuff but only when my cute boyfriend buys me it. <3))

well said!

Aiss, this is wrong. Ugh. When Ashton is annoying me, I feel powerful and self confident enough to leave the room. I just leave if asston is bugging me he doesn't 'cripple me in place with his manly ej powers.' They can't get away with it because I will just remove myself from the situation. Of course Ashton hurt my feelings before, he has done that with everybody. He's Asston (copyright crazedrat) what do you expect? (God I love my infp butt buddies krae and crazed rat my infp homeboys i love u so much) And Nick when he's not being an ass.

Do you really think that I will just sit there and let somebody abuse me ? Just because I'm passive and shy and I have a big heart? Well fuck you for making that assumption. And fuck all women for thinking that I'm weaker because I don't want to abuse you like straight male asston. And fuck everybody in the world that thinks I'm weaker just because I don't light stray cats on fire like ghetto sociopathic straight boys.

*claps*

--

are XSEs more typically go,go,go than XIEs?? seems to me XSEs focus on DOINGDOINGDOING in the present, at the same time XIEs focus on DOINGBECOMINGDOING with focus on future.

[Aleksei]

I think it's the other way around to an extent actually, because XSEs are Judicious and XIEs are Decisive. Judicious people think things through more thoroughly before doing them. This one ESE friend of mine hates making decisions of any kind (though she can get pretty impulsive and careless as well).

[scissors]

With ej its more like "God who gives a shit, I want to look at my bank account."

Ehm...no.
It's not the money - its having someting that can be measured.
Ej want personal satisfaction as much as everybody else but just satisfying yourself without any real life "evidence" (for lack of a better word) seems pointless.

It does not have to be money but it must be measurable, results, numbers, real life tangibles, graphs, awards, something real. And by real I mean something that can be perceived by the world as real - not just by me.
That is what gives us satisfaction - real life tangible results.

So - in an artistic sense an EJ artist is never satisfied creating only to please themselves. It must be of some value to the outer world and yield some tangible results.

[Saoshyant]

I've haven't done shit all day today!

[Park]

A lot of IP types I come across are actually harder workers than I am. In particular they seem to shy away from detail-work less than people of other types. Their ability to focus on such problems is probably the strongest of all the temperaments. Several of the classical descriptions list this as characteristic of the four types.

What I would say irritates me about them is the way they raise the impression of being wise, impartial and deferring judgment when at the same time they apply a huge range of implicit prejudices in their way of framing things. They aren't really any less fanatical in their beliefs than the other types. They just have this way of making their dogmas fly under the radar by not lending them direct expression. This adds an further dimension of treachery to the act.

Nicely put. I just don't get your last (two) sentence(s).