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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Default Friendship

    One of the first areas in which I noticed that I was different from most other people was my expectations in friendships. I had to redefine what friendship meant because I was completely disillusioned from what society had instilled in me. What I took to be "friendship" was the free exchange of insults, opinions, and random BS'ing.That greatly contrasted with what I valued and what I could tolerate. This leads me to the point of this thread:

    Are valuers friends so much as there is stimulation between them? What happens when that stimulation is absent? Do valuers have long distance and lifetime friends? When I use the word "friends", I mean whatever you consider to be a true friend.

    I was thinking of a scenario in which two groups of people make jokes. In Group , it has been pre-established that friends should not speak out against each other without restrictions because they are friends. Words are filtered before they are said. In Group , it has been established that friends can say whatever they what and not worry because they are friends. It seems in Group friendship comes first, humor second. While in Group , friendship comes second, humor first.

    Could it be said that valuers are objects or sources of stimulation, while valuers subjects or sources of bonds? If so then should we expect valuing friends to stay around in the long term, and should we expect valuing friends to be active in daily interaction?

  2. #2
    Creepy-male

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    Lol, ouch.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Are valuers friends so much as there is stimulation between them? What happens when that stimulation is absent? Do valuers have long distance and lifetime friends? When I use the word "friends", I mean whatever you consider to be a true friend.
    Friends are friends based on what connection is there. There can be superficial acquaintances who you jostle or joke around with, without being particularly close to, however.

    "Friends" is not contingent on there being some sort of emotional stimulation. People I would call my friends are typically people I like, either because of going through stuff together, having supported me, or just because I think they're awesome.

    I typically tend toward long-distance friends, since I do most of my socialising online, as that's easier for me to cope with than doing so IRL (where I can really only stomach one or two other people). I guess I don't have many life-long friends in terms of people I talk to regularly, but once someone is a "friend", so they stay, even if we don't necessarily keep in touch. (I'm often reliant on other people doing this, or I just kind of drop off the planet.)

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    I was thinking of a scenario in which two groups of people make jokes. In Group , it has been pre-established that friends should not speak out against each other without restrictions because they are friends. Words are filtered before they are said. In Group , it has been established that friends can say whatever they what and not worry because they are friends. It seems in Group friendship comes first, humor second. While in Group , friendship comes second, humor first.
    You make it sound like Group devalues the relationship in favour of the humour. I don't believe this is so. As a ego, the relationship is still important, it's just understood that you can get away with more stuff due to the nature of the relationship.

    For example, I wouldn't make raunchy jokes with someone manning the cash register at a Burger King, but I would do so rather frequently with any of my ILE friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Could it be said that valuers are objects or sources of stimulation, while valuers subjects or sources of bonds? If so then should we expect valuing friends to stay around in the long term, and should we expect valuing friends to be active in daily interaction?
    It could be, but that paints valuers in a really negative light, and in a very positive one.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    I may be portraying friendship in a negative light, but I'm trying to understand that point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanks Arthur View Post
    Lol, ouch.



    Friends are friends based on what connection is there. There can be superficial acquaintances who you jostle or joke around with, without being particularly close to, however.
    But how exactly do types view friends differently than types? It can't be purely objectivity vs subjectivity because then you could do all sorts of things to and they'd be indifferent.

    "Friends" is not contingent on there being some sort of emotional stimulation. People I would call my friends are typically people I like, either because of going through stuff together, having supported me, or just because I think they're awesome.
    How exactly does external ethics fit in with this? Do you base your friendship on what you can possibly do with these friends or what attributes they possess?



    You make it sound like Group devalues the relationship in favour of the humour. I don't believe this is so. As a ego, the relationship is still important, it's just understood that you can get away with more stuff due to the nature of the relationship.

    For example, I wouldn't make raunchy jokes with someone manning the cash register at a Burger King, but I would do so rather frequently with any of my ILE friends.
    "Getting away", obviously there is some difference in what is usually presented. Friends "get away" with jokes aimed at each other, but not anyone else. How is that friendship? It seems like the opposite to me.

    It could be, but that paints valuers in a really negative light, and in a very positive one.
    Well, do you see people as objects that provide access to other things or stimulation? I see friends as people with shared experiences that affect me in a positive way and so I choose to call them friends. Nothing else is required of them, but acknowledgement of the bond.

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    every type can have any type of friendship, imo.

    one of my best friends was a woman I met on the internet (and have since met her family and we try to get together at least once per year) over 12 years ago! We still email several times per week, sometimes more often than that. She's LII.

    But there are also women who were in my wedding with whom I'm no longer in touch (both ESI). And there are a range of friends in between those extremes. Every friendship has a different flavor and there are different things that bring you together and keep you connected.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    I know every type can have different friendships, as I can tell the differences between the ones I have/had. My focus is on the preferred friendship, it would give more insight into how manifests.

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    I might chime in more later, but I think it's also worth considering the "friend" behavior from the perspective of conscious/unconscious /. (essentially Statics vs. Dynamics)

    However, I will add my view that valuing/devaluing of functions has more to do with what one takes for granted compared to what one keeps on the forefront. (especially for the Ego vs. Id functions) It certainly could be said that valuers communicate in a free environment because they take the nature of the relationship, which we shall tentatively link to , for granted. It could also be said, conversely, that valuers focus on the relationship and take the emotional exchange for granted. Just something to mull over.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Friendship is creepy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Friendship is creepy.
    Hi Labcoat

    We're still creepy internet friends btw .

    *Peers at your signature*

    So...

    Labcoatttt!!!!!!!

    NO!!!!!!!

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Ok so more on the matter.

    Problems between and valuers:
    It seems as if there is sort of a tug of power. wants to heighten the status of the friendship to where free communication is permitted, while tries to tread carefully so as to not step on any toes. Especially in the case of Contrary relationships, the extrovert creates situations for that free exchange, yet the introvert douses the opportunities to create prospects for sober exchanges of personal information.

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    redbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Ok so more on the matter.

    Problems between and valuers:
    It seems as if there is sort of a tug of power. wants to heighten the status of the friendship to where free communication is permitted, while tries to tread carefully so as to not step on any toes. Especially in the case of Contrary relationships, the extrovert creates situations for that free exchange, yet the introvert douses the opportunities to create prospects for sober exchanges of personal information.
    I actually think that's pretty good.

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Hmm, meant to add Fe/Fi PoLR Contrary partners. It's worse there because neither is capable of accommodating the other appropriately.

    With Semi Duality, especially between SLE/ILI and ILE/SLI, I think the complementing functions allow for compensation, but the problem still exists.

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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeSeeCold View Post
    Ok so more on the matter.

    Problems between and valuers:
    It seems as if there is sort of a tug of power. wants to heighten the status of the friendship to where free communication is permitted, while tries to tread carefully so as to not step on any toes. Especially in the case of Contrary relationships, the extrovert creates situations for that free exchange, yet the introvert douses the opportunities to create prospects for sober exchanges of personal information.
    I agree with the unbolded part entirely.

    Then I got confused. Contrary relationships are all between Exxx and Ixxx types. So do you mean that the person who is overall extroverted creates the free-exchange situations, or that the Fe (extroverted feeling) person does it? Änd by the introvert you mean the one with introverted feeling, which is why the exchange should be "sober"?
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

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    Coldest of the Socion EyeSeeCold's Avatar
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    Yea my concepts got jumbled as I tried to externalize them, I realized it too late.

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