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Thread: Alright, I could definitely use your help for type assertion

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    Inception Mastermind KeroZen's Avatar
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    Default Alright, I could definitely use your help for type assertion...

    Hi, I'm Alex, 31, male, new to this forum.

    I've been studying socionics and related theories on my own for some time, tried to share it with my friends (with mild to moderate success) but I find myself in a position where I really need external help and opinions (my friends are rather sceptical about this all, and even with my limited knowledge I'm the one who knows (and care) the most in the group).

    I'm posting this directly in the Beta forum because I've already a strong inclination towards a particular type...and also because after reading both this and the Delta one, I found the folks in there funnier..

    To make things simple: I'm at a point were I can't determine my j/p preference at all, be it by self testing (either I'm too biased because I know what the test answers will produce, or for more advanced tests, I score 50/50 everytime on the j/p scale) or be it by logical reasoning (I read all descriptions I could find, tried to extrapolate by comparing to my friends types, tried to extrapolate by looking at my supposed dual, tried to determine by quadra values....)... to no avail!

    Would you guys try to help me?
    Last edited by KeroZen; 06-28-2012 at 12:28 AM.

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Tell me a little about yourself, Alex...
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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    Inception Mastermind KeroZen's Avatar
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    I could tell you what I scored at various tests, but I'm biased since the first one I took (MBTI) and even if I have strong preferences/inclinations for some types, I don't want to exclude any possibility by giving you false leads.

    I could tell you how I interact with people of other "known" types around me, but again this would be biased as I surely analyzed those relations by emphasizing aspects that were expected and obfuscating "anomalies"...and if I'm not sure of my own type, it would be a bit too bold to be certain about others.

    As I said in the introduction post above, I can't make my mind by reading types, functions or quadras descriptions (well I thought I could, I was even pretty confident at some point, but I kept challenging it all and brainstorming too much, to the point of "information overload" hehe)

    So I guess I'll have to talk about myself, but it's not something I'm used to do openly. Not that I have any problem talking about my feelings, to the contrary! I can tend to expose myself too much, hence I try to chose carefully my interlocutors. (yes I'm aware this sentence is very revealing, but I could also be saying that just because I read it already too much in my type description....)

    I feel hard to present myself here without emphasizing my functional preferences or being type-focused, also please keep in mind english is not my natural language, so I might sound different than I am due to lack of proper vocabulary and/or confidence with this language (insightful nuances might be lost in translation)

    I never ever scored S in any single test, I'm pretty unbalanced on that scale.. I wish I could find the switch in my head sometimes to stop that bloody N analyzer, and my surroundings often make me realize that I should be living and enjoying instead of thinking. Well, I enjoy thinking and I have a wild and deep imagination. I often fall into instant S gratification pitfalls, but I've always been very moderate and self-restrained.

    To counter balance my previous statements, I'm really sensible to arts and music: I can draw and paint, I used to be a music composer, played electronic music live in underground parties but now I only have time to be a DJ in small to medium venues (requires me a lot of efforts to fight my shy side, though) ...but...possible bias here again: I'm left handed and I read it could be linked to the artistic brain side...

    I'm an information-sink, constantly "canibalizing" new subjects until I suck them empty (and with socionics and social sciences/pyschology I'm happy because the subject is deep enough to ensure a long and fun syphoning...:wink

    I'm interested in systems and classifications, I'm a software engineer. Been coding since I'm 12, started by implementing all kind of video games but with a clear preference for systems I could create then let evolve by themselves without interaction, so I could have fun observing them (think cellular automatas for instance, but that would only scrap the surface)

    Still, I'm not overly confident in my T and I think I value ethics more.. Sometimes I think I got what I call a "fuzzy logic" instead of a cold and rational one. I recall that at my previous work, during brainstorming sessions between boss and engineers, I often proposed "weird" or unusual alternatives, bringing into consideration details or subjects they all overlooked or disqualified but that in the end proved to be of much importance. I tend to come with the "magical link" solution, the thing connecting all dots and sufficiently "generalizing" to fit and meet all participants views, leaving everybody in the room with a big "eureka" smile and staring at me...

    Ah I don't know how relevant it is, but I left said company to create my own a couple years ago. I teamed with a friend, I'm developing the products and he handles all administrative and company management tasks that I find so boring. My vivid imagination makes me more efficient when designing and conceptualizing systems (architect role) but less when implementing them (I'm not a fast coder as I'm way too perfectionist, same when I'm writing in ordinary language: I tend to chose my words very carefully) If I could change my current situation, then I'd like to hire engineers and take the lead position, focusing on design and long term planning, leaving code monkey tasks to others!

    To conclude this already long post, you may wonder why I have difficulties making my mind on the j/p scale (even if it looks like it's the hardest dichotomy to grasp for many people), but I really do feel a constant conflict inside me between what I consider judging and perceiving values. Conflict partially fueled by my upbringing/education/family and also because I'm surely a bit borderline on the mental health side lately (creating my company was and is still a long tunnel, even if now we can see the light, it's been very stressful and absolutely not rewarding thus far... worse it's a constant drain and I'm looking forward the day we're finally "positive")

    People around me envy me my strong will and think I'm "brave" and "courageous" for standing and following my own way, but I answer that in my case and when looking closely, the nuance between bravery and sheer madness is really thin...
    Last edited by KeroZen; 06-28-2012 at 12:33 AM. Reason: edited out controversial and irrelevant details about S instant-gratification

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    Bananas are good. Aleksei's Avatar
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    ENTp/ENTP.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, Dmitri Lytov

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    Inception Mastermind KeroZen's Avatar
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    I've been considering "Don" as a possible trail, but only very recently. Descriptions do resonate a bit, but way less than IEI and EII ones to be honest. But why not afterall, you didn't even bother to put arguments on the table so I assume you are confident? hehe

    But I'm reserved, especially with people I don't know, I can be uber shy, not self confident at all, I enjoy solitude and yes, like in most "I" descriptions, I really do need time alone after social interactions to recharge my batteries.

    Sometimes it even happens right in the middle of a party, I have to leave the crowd and find a calm place, outside or near a window, or in a remote room...kinda...autistic!

    I don't put myself forward, and I've been criticized a lot by my close friends for that: "You should be more confident and not withdraw yourself, you're a valuable person" (etc)

    And a last detail I just happened to realize by chatting on IRC: related to conflict avoidance, I don't avoid them at all, instead I tend to initiate them or I sow the seeds of conflict as I dislike when things are not said and clear, so I often create open conflicts, stand by my opinions and argue. People shout, get upset and all, but afterwards when they think about it, they all agree it was for the common good and made the situation evolve or at least advance one extra step further...(even if everybody is hurt in the process)

    But I most often act in the shadows, talking with individuals first, one to one..
    I'm a good listener and because I'm reserved I attract people like a magnet and they all tell me what they feel... Then at some point I use all that knowledge to make things evolve (in what I think would be a good way hehe)

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    I also, independently, thought of ENTp/ILE for you based on your narrative. That type was recently offered on this forum for my young child, and it was my first boyfriend's type.

    Maybe you are an I type, but ILE can look introverted, I think. Your follow-up still sounds kind of ILE to me. Reserved, shy, check. The "recharge the batteries" thing does sound traditionally introvert. The rest of it fits, imo.
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