View Poll Results: Fyodor Dostoevsky

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  • Intuitive-Logical Extratim - ENTp (The Inventor)

    1 4.35%
  • Sensory-Ethical Intratim - ISFp (The Peacemaker)

    0 0%
  • Ethical-Sensory Extratim - ESFj (The Enthusiast)

    0 0%
  • Logical-Intuitive Intratim - INTj (The Analyst)

    0 0%
  • Ethical-Intuitive Extratim - ENFj (The Actor)

    1 4.35%
  • Logical-Sensory Intratim - ISTj (The Pragmatist)

    0 0%
  • Sensory-Logical Extratim - ESTp (The Conqueror)

    1 4.35%
  • Intuitive-Ethical Intratim - INFp (The Romantic)

    3 13.04%
  • Sensory-Ethical Extratim - ESFp (The Ambassador)

    0 0%
  • Intuitive-Logical Intratim - INTp (The Observer)

    0 0%
  • Logical-Intuitive Extratim - ENTj (The Pioneer)

    0 0%
  • Ethical-Sensory Intratim - ISFj (The Guardian)

    0 0%
  • Logical-Sensory Extratim - ESTj (The Director)

    0 0%
  • Ethical-Intuitive Intratim - INFj (The Empath)

    17 73.91%
  • Intuitive-Ethical Extratim - ENFp (The Reporter)

    0 0%
  • Sensory-Logical Intratim - ISTp (The Artisan)

    0 0%
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Thread: Fyodor Dostoyevsky

  1. #41
    Carolus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atlascog View Post
    To me it seems like EIIs can easily be irascible, impulsive, moody and dogmatic. Strong Fi + Te-seeking. Many EIIs are 9s however so maybe there's some confusion. I think in the Enneagram he's often typed as 4w5 sp/so. Maybe he had a 1 fix, possibly a 6w5 fix too.
    Enneagram doesn't change the expression of sociotype that much. Hans Christian Andersen is a much clearer example of an EII 4 writer and differences in subject matter and real life behavior are both there. It's not impossible that Dosto is an EII, I just don't think he's nearly as clear-cut an example of one as people believe.

  2. #42
    soundofconfusion's Avatar
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    I strongly agree with Victor Gulenko that Dostoevsky was an EIE (like Robespierre). interesting that nobody voted for this type in the poll.

  3. #43
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolus View Post
    Enneagram doesn't change the expression of sociotype that much. Hans Christian Andersen is a much clearer example of an EII 4 writer and differences in subject matter and real life behavior are both there. It's not impossible that Dosto is an EII, I just don't think he's nearly as clear-cut an example of one as people believe.
    Nah.

    Too much about the fairytale world less about real deep human characters
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  4. #44
    TRVE KVLT Armalite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    Nah.

    Too much about the fairytale world less about real deep human characters
    That's actually a good point

  5. #45
    strrrng's Avatar
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    Crime and Punishment confirmed all my preceding observations and more. What qualifies it is the 4w5 sp/sx'ness, most EIIs are 1s or 9s, and not contra-flow. Anyway the point to me was that he was always reaching for a standalone feeling which no character could ever fully embody. Why else would Crime and Punishment have ended the way it did...
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  6. #46
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    yeah and the Idiot himself, the heavy delineation of the ties between the characters, their motives, the way in which his characters go beyond what is considered socially acceptable.. he's been described as the first psychologist for a reason.

  7. #47
    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    yeah and the Idiot himself, the heavy delineation of the ties between the characters, their motives, the way in which his characters go beyond what is considered socially acceptable.. he's been described as the first psychologist for a reason.
    It's part of why he's always struck me as a kind of forerunner to Camus (aside from Kierkegaard, whom I haven't read as much of), insofar as the latter was "the conscience of a century." For example, I wouldn't even say it's about his characters going beyond what's socially acceptable as just that a certain kind of propriety is suspended on some level for the sake of discourse/narrative. But I agree about how pronouncedly uncanny their manifestations are. Things like the ending of The Double, or the kind of steadfastness of Raskolnikov's portrait, do make one wonder about the trajectory surrounding that characterization.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  8. #48
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    I haven't read Crime and Punishment, nor the Fall, but Camus on the other end seems to me to play more with Ni + Fe. I used to love Camus for what I've read... some of his images have been stuck in my head for a long time.

  9. #49
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    Yeah, Camus is my all time favorite, though I haven't read The Plague, but The Fall is brilliant. But I agree about the types, some here type Camus EII because they misread his ethos, which is about a humanism that isn't "quite human," i.e. The Stranger. Whereas Dostoevsky is more naturally ensconced in whatever condition.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  10. #50
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    I think Camus was an EIE too.

  11. #51
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    People seem to have an odd tendency to try to type Dostoevsky only from having read his fiction, without knowing much about his life and the context within which he wrote. At that, the closest writers I can think of when it comes to writing style are Shakespeare and Faulkner, neither of whom were Delta.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    It's part of why he's always struck me as a kind of forerunner to Camus (aside from Kierkegaard, whom I haven't read as much of), insofar as the latter was "the conscience of a century." For example, I wouldn't even say it's about his characters going beyond what's socially acceptable as just that a certain kind of propriety is suspended on some level for the sake of discourse/narrative. But I agree about how pronouncedly uncanny their manifestations are. Things like the ending of The Double, or the kind of steadfastness of Raskolnikov's portrait, do make one wonder about the trajectory surrounding that characterization.
    You'd be wrong in that belief. Camus saw Ivan as the hero of Karamazov. Dostoevsky clearly intended Alyosha to be the closest thing to that.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolus View Post
    You'd be wrong in that belief. Camus saw Ivan as the hero of Karamazov. Dostoevsky clearly intended Alyosha to be the closest thing to that.
    I was characterizing him that way because they both seemed to me to have a similar yet different kind of existential substance, not because their literary views were perfectly aligned. And perhaps certain differences are explainable by type...?
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  13. #53
    Haikus silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundofconfusion View Post
    I strongly agree with Victor Gulenko that Dostoevsky was an EIE (like Robespierre). interesting that nobody voted for this type in the poll.
    Gulenko is known to over-type on EIEs, same type as his wife and his daughter. Which is why every instance that he types someone as EIE it comes as suspect to those who have participated in socionics communities and know by now that EIE typings are a weird quirk of his as he's somehow enamored with the type.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    Crime and Punishment confirmed all my preceding observations and more. What qualifies it is the 4w5 sp/sx'ness, most EIIs are 1s or 9s, and not contra-flow. Anyway the point to me was that he was always reaching for a standalone feeling which no character could ever fully embody. Why else would Crime and Punishment have ended the way it did...
    I've been trying to figure out his enneagram type, sp/sx is evident, but how come 4w5?
    IxFx type have some of the widest spread of enneagram types btw and most EIIs are half syn-flow and half-contra.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    I've been trying to figure out his enneagram type, sp/sx is evident, but how come 4w5?
    IxFx type have some of the widest spread of enneagram types btw and most EIIs are half syn-flow and half-contra.
    The main thing is that I don't think any type other than a 4/5 would write books like Crime and Punishment and Notes From the Underground, at least not in the way he did. The former is basically the delta version of Steppenwolf, with Hesse being an IEI 4w5. Sp/sx 4/5 axis is more or less the abyss, or at least an awareness spawned by a familiarity with a certain kind of suffering that can never be completely qualified; and this attitude seeps into everything Dostoevsky writes.
    Last edited by strrrng; 07-22-2019 at 03:46 PM.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Gulenko is known to over-type on EIEs, same type as his wife and his daughter. Which is why every instance that he types someone as EIE it comes as suspect to those who have participated in socionics communities and know by now that EIE typings are a weird quirk of his as he's somehow enamored with the type.


    I've been trying to figure out his enneagram type, sp/sx is evident, but how come 4w5?
    IxFx type have some of the widest spread of enneagram types btw and most EIIs are half syn-flow and half-contra.
    I have to admit that I'm also very interested in EIEs. It's the most vivid and expressive type to me. I have a gallery of types on my german socionics website with twice as many EIE examples than any other type.

    http://soziotypen.de/die-16-soziotyp...eie-beispiele/

    I also pretty much agree with Gulenko on all of his EIE typings.

    regarding Dostoevsky: I've read almost all of his novels and short stories. I guess I'm very sure of his type. (but like always, it's just my opinion). as a Ti dominant type I'm prone to often being too sure on something I guess...

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