My dad is depressed

[pianosinger]

My father has been taking anti-depressants since I was in middle school; recently he started weaning off the meds, and my mom wrote yesterday to say that he's having a hard time.

I'm not positive of his socionics type. He could be INTp, INTj, or maybe even INFp or INFj. Most likely INTj, but I can't be absolutely certain.

Anyway, I'm just thinking that if his type were known, then maybe it could help him to better find strategies to help him deal with his depression. At least, I know that I've had an easier time with my issues since I've learned about personality theory (particularly Role vs. Base), so why wouldn't it help him?

I don't know how open he will be to the idea, but I'd like to approach him when I see him for Thanksgiving.

I'll have to come back later with some more info to try and get some help determining his type. But for now, I'd appreciate any input on dealing with depression for any of the above-mentioned types.

Thanks in advance.

[pianosinger]

Okay, some things about my dad...

He majored in electrical engineering. He enjoyed it at first, I think, but he got really discouraged a while back when he wasn't getting to do what he really wanted to do (whatever that is) and was having to settle for boring same-old and was feeling rather unimportant and doldrummy. But he has been constant in his work, because it's what he knows, and because he takes very seriously his responsibility to provide for his family, even if it means doing a job that he doesn't always like.

He is very opinionated, and will openly state his opinions without regards to how it might be taken by others. He has no qualms about coming to blows over opinion.

He is generally an impatient man; he hates sitting around when he could be accomplishing something. He likes to get the family together to play games and such, but then grows impatient if the game lags due to extraneous talking or general silliness. So, he only really likes group activities with a purpose; otherwise, he would prefer to play something on his own; he enjoys computer games and video games, particularly those involving strategy, though he also likes fantasy role-play type games. For a while, he'd managed to get the whole family (minus my mom) in on a Dungeons and Dragons campaign.

He loves to read, and is quite knowledgeable (or at least appears to be) on many different topics.

[EyeSeeCold]

LII?

Maybe he feels like his life has no purpose.

[Shazaam]

If your dad was left alone for awhile or really encouraged to do what he wanted to do, and didn't feel the need to be self-sacrificing so much.... then his depression would probably be cured on its own.

I'm just saying, putting our noses in other people's business and interacting with them tends to make all problems worse, not better. Like Byron Katie says, we never really truly understand somebody. (well we can but it's a lot rarer than you think) We only know them by the stories we tell ourselves about them, and how they behave objectively.

I get pissy a lot, and moody. I know damn well that therapy wouldn't help me during those times, nor would pills (btw they're fake and a money scheme). I know talking about it wouldn't work because I know what other people would say to try to 'fix it' and it would just make me ornery. I am just grumpy and don't want to deal with humanity at the time- the only way for it to fix itself is the natural passing of time, or by my sleeping it off. I was happy when I first woke up today, then I had a lot of yard work to do and I got depressed.

The idea that depression is something to get 'rid of' instead of something to simply 'stick it out and let its run its course like a cold', is why people get so neurotic. And trying to be happy tends to only make people feel sterile and dead inside.

So that's what I have to say about depression. The world becomes a better place ironically when we stop trying to make it one. And btw yeah I agree your dad sounds intj.

[Creepy-male]

Okay, some things about my dad...

He majored in electrical engineering. He enjoyed it at first, I think, but he got really discouraged a while back when he wasn't getting to do what he really wanted to do (whatever that is) and was having to settle for boring same-old and was feeling rather unimportant and doldrummy. But he has been constant in his work, because it's what he knows, and because he takes very seriously his responsibility to provide for his family, even if it means doing a job that he doesn't always like.

This is probably why he's depressed. Low life satisfaction and huge amounts of inescapable stress and pressure. Paraphrased: his life sucks, he can't get out, and it's making him unhappy.

IME Alphas are always very open to Socionics, even if they approach it with a degree of scepticism, so you likely have nothing to worry about there.

[humblepie]

Okay, some things about my dad...

He majored in electrical engineering. He enjoyed it at first, I think, but he got really discouraged a while back when he wasn't getting to do what he really wanted to do (whatever that is) and was having to settle for boring same-old and was feeling rather unimportant and doldrummy. But he has been constant in his work, because it's what he knows, and because he takes very seriously his responsibility to provide for his family, even if it means doing a job that he doesn't always like.

He is very opinionated, and will openly state his opinions without regards to how it might be taken by others. He has no qualms about coming to blows over opinion.

He is generally an impatient man; he hates sitting around when he could be accomplishing something. He likes to get the family together to play games and such, but then grows impatient if the game lags due to extraneous talking or general silliness. So, he only really likes group activities with a purpose; otherwise, he would prefer to play something on his own; he enjoys computer games and video games, particularly those involving strategy, though he also likes fantasy role-play type games. For a while, he'd managed to get the whole family (minus my mom) in on a Dungeons and Dragons campaign.

He loves to read, and is quite knowledgeable (or at least appears to be) on many different topics.

it's probably hard to determine his type since he's depressed. he wont be acting quite like himself. but i agree with what bullets and doves said. meds only mask the problem. it sounds like it's the situation that is making him sad. he is probably hyper aware that he has the potential to be so much more than he is being allowed. i'm realising myself only recently how my situation has been effecting me all these years. i got pregnant at 19 and my child has a chronic illness which means scheduled appointments, daily scheduled home treatments, schedules and seclusion and loneliness and loss of freedom and fear that i'll lose my child if i don't keep up with all the schedules and cleaning and feeding and nose wiping and schedules. i thought i was a bad person for finding it so hard to do what other people just get on with and do. it's like the worst thing that could happen to an enfp. i'm not a bad person for hating being cut off from everyone and hating scheduled boring repetetive tasks. socionics has helped me realise that i'm actually a legend for doing the job i've been doing year after year. eventhough i get down from time to time i'm generally fun for my daughter to be around. it's made me realise the real cause of depression. people need to live the lives they were born to live.

someone told me recently about how hunting dogs can get depressed if they are attacked badly enough by a badger or whatever. they can't hunt anymore after a bad enough incident and so they lose their purpose in life and it breaks their spirit. they become depressed and give up and die. it got me to thinking this is the real reason so many people are depressed and then i realised the root of the problem is money. it really is the root of all evil. it forces people to have to do jobs they hate. if your god given skills can't be used to make money you are left to feel worthless. people have forgotten the real reason we work, we shouldn't be doing it for money but for our families and communities. so that they function optimally. entrepreneurs shouldn't think how much money can they make for themselves but how can they build up their community to be the best damn community there is. but i suppose me ranting on about the evils of money isn't going to be much help to your dad is it? maybe encouraging and inspiring him to accomplish something that is his legacy to the world would help. my dad lost his job a year ago and was in a very bad way, he felt utterly useless cos he got fired for forgetting small details. he's entp and i showed him what an entp was born to do. i told him he's a big picture kind of guy and that without people like him we would all still be living in caves. small details are just not his thing and he shouldn't be made to feel ashamed for forgetting them. i tried to encourage him to get ideas flowing but my isfj mam put a stop to his dreams. no wonder the man is depressed.

sorry for the long rant, i'm feeling a bit depressed myself

[pianosinger]

i'm realising myself only recently how my situation has been effecting me all these years. i got pregnant at 19 and my child has a chronic illness which means scheduled appointments, daily scheduled home treatments, schedules and seclusion and loneliness and loss of freedom and fear that i'll lose my child if i don't keep up with all the schedules and cleaning and feeding and nose wiping and schedules. i thought i was a bad person for finding it so hard to do what other people just get on with and do. it's like the worst thing that could happen to an enfp. i'm not a bad person for hating being cut off from everyone and hating scheduled boring repetetive tasks. socionics has helped me realise that i'm actually a legend for doing the job i've been doing year after year. eventhough i get down from time to time i'm generally fun for my daughter to be around.

Wow, you're right. That would be a nightmare for me as well.

Yeah, I'm sure the job situation is probably the biggest contributor to my dad's depression. But, how do you suggest to a 54-year-old man that he consider a career change? Just doesn't seem feasible, especially in this economy...He really is trapped, poor guy.

Also, I've always felt a little intimidated by him (makes sense, I guess, since he's probably my Supervisor), so talking seriously about socionics with him really will be a challenge. But maybe if I bring it up with a few other family members first it'll be easier.

[redbaron]

life sucks and then you die.

sorry, that was unhelpful. I think it's pretty normal for a middle-aged man to feel depressed about that sort of thing. it's a rat race and life IS really hard sometimes. I like what B&D said. But my own dad has been on Prozac for 20 years now. You begin to wonder. I personally think a healthy diet, sleep, exercise and good relationships can go a long way. If that doesn't work, try herbal supplements to raise dopamine levels. Then after all that has been explored and things still aren't better, try the hard stuff. Otherwise, I'd keep away. But that's just me. There are so many side effects and unknowns...

[Saoshyant]

nor would pills (btw they're fake and a money scheme)

Bullshit, and potentially harmful for people who'd actually believe that.

[pianosinger]

Bullshit, and potentially harmful for people who'd actually believe that.

*clap* Thank you!

[sigma]

My father has been taking anti-depressants since I was in middle school; recently he started weaning off the meds, and my mom wrote yesterday to say that he's having a hard time.

So, he is treating symptoms for a long long time and the cause is still there.

My advice is to forget about Socionics in this case. If you want to help, here are 3 books and a website.

First the website:
e-couch: Free help for anxiety and depression
Register (it's free) and learn as much as you can about Depression and the available options for treatment.

Book 1 will help you get through to your dad. This is not as easy as people imagine it to be. Educate yourself about the best approach to get someone to do something (hint: he will have to do various things if he is to get out of this)
Amazon.com: I'm Right. You're Wrong. Now What? How to Break Through Any Relationship Stalemate (9781402201790): Jaclynn Morris, Paul L. Fair: Books

Book 2 will educate you about one of THE BEST ways to compensate for depression (hint: it is, in some cases, as good as the meds)
Amazon.com: The Mindful Way through Depression: Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness (9781593851286): Mark Williams, John Teasdale, Zindel Segal, Jon Kabat-Zinn: Books

Book 3 will provide you with tons of ideas about how to make his life a little bit better. The magic thing is that over time, this "little better" accumulates and creates a "much better"
Amazon.com: Happier: Learn the Secrets to Daily Joy and Lasting Fulfillment (9780071492393): Tal Ben-Shahar: Books

After you go through the above you can find more about his Socionics type and use that information to brainstorm ways he can use his strengths (Happier has more info on why this is important and how to go about it)

May the Force be with you!

[sigma]

I get pissy a lot, and moody. I know damn well that therapy wouldn't help me during those times, nor would pills (btw they're fake and a money scheme).

You, my friend, don't know jack about this. For chronically depressed, stop taking the meds might be a death sentence. Depression is DEADLY.

Here is a quick quote:

Mortality/Morbidity

The morbidity of the depression is difficult to quantify. The lethality of depression, however, is measurable and is the result of completed suicide, which is the eighth leading reported cause of death in the United States.

In 2005, 1.4% of all deaths worldwide were attributed to suicide. The real number is unknown since underreporting is predictably significant. Suicide is estimated to be the eighth leading cause of death in all age ranges.

Almost all people who kill themselves intentionally have a diagnosable mental disorder with or without substance abuse, which in itself, is often a result of attempted self-treatment for the symptoms of depression. Approximately two thirds of individuals who complete suicide have seen a physician within a month of their death.