Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: How can I (an ESI) get along better with my conflictor (ILE)?

  1. #1
    yurijesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2023
    Location
    USA
    TIM
    ESI-Se sp416 FVEL
    Posts
    18
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default How can I (an ESI) get along better with my conflictor (ILE)?

    like the title says, i'm an ESI wishing to get along better with my ILE friend. after figuring out his sociotype, we (as a pair) reviewed the relationship between ESI and ILE and (as expected) related heavily to the description of conflictors. i really like my friend and want to understand him better and get along as best as we can while being conflictors thank you in advance for any advice/anecdotes or just general discussion about this topic. have a great day y'all o/

  2. #2
    numa numa yay kuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,040
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hmm, does your ILE friend's use of either Ne or Ti ever bother or confuse you? If so, what about it bothers/confuses you?

  3. #3
    yurijesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2023
    Location
    USA
    TIM
    ESI-Se sp416 FVEL
    Posts
    18
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kuno View Post
    If so, what about it bothers/confuses you?


    Ti Usage

    i think it's my friends Ti usage that actually drives me insane. he'll start arguments about things i'm more knowledgeable about, which i take seriously and try to defend my point piece by piece, meanwhile he's giggling because he thinks we're joking around, but he really does sound like hes taking the argument seriously! meanwhile from his perspective, i'm the one starting arguments by taking him seriously. additionally, i know i can be uptight about my use of Fi, which i understand can be irritating to others who might not value fi/understand my usage of it, but his total lack of regards for rules that seem "stupid" drives me crazy. he mispronounces words knowing that its the wrong pronounciation, i correct him, and he's like "i know and i don't care i'm saying it this way", which is really small, but extends further to a lot of how our interactions play out.

    Ne Usage

    i have less issues with his Ne usage. the way he and ILE's as a whole quickly deem details/information valuable/not valuable drives me a bit crazy. i really dont understand that all, probably because i pay so much attention to the little things.

    additionally, (i'm not sure what this is related to, for context he's an sp7 and i'm an sx6) he'll have trouble doing something, then i come and help him because i noticed something he didnt/have more experience, and then he seems dejected or like he thinks that i believe him to be stupid or uncapable. it makes me feel bad, because all i want to do is help him out and care for him the way i do others.

    i understand that conflictors are essentially doomed, especially in our case, but i still value our friendship deeply and wish to get along better with those i dont quite understand better o7 thank you sm!

  4. #4
    jimi$dope one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Posts
    656
    Mentioned
    320 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Whenever he does his Ti thing, don’t take it seriously

  5. #5
    yurijesus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2023
    Location
    USA
    TIM
    ESI-Se sp416 FVEL
    Posts
    18
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by one View Post
    Whenever he does his Ti thing, don’t take it seriously
    i will do my best .. thank you for the advice!

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    15,766
    Mentioned
    1404 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    We'll overcome what are real type of you and other people.
    A situation of negative IR.
    To be pleasant and useful you should fit sympathies and needs of other human. In Jung types this much means to match his valued variants of functions and to support him in his weak functions. To accept his behavior based in his strong and valued for him variants of functions and give him a care in his weak and valued variants of functions. It's what duals do.
    Negative IR as conflictor means it's hard for you to behave according to wishes and needs of other human. Plus some negative effects on psyche state of both besides your intentional behavior.

    You may try. Tune to other human to imagine as perceiving the world alike him. This will give you understanding what he wants and needs, and will improve your perception by him. Then follow to this understanding. It's exhausting and will arise other negative influence of IR on you. But also you may get more of positive of better relations and better state of other human near.

    Socionics itself has no "what to do" with different IR. It's supposed partly evident as "be alike his dual" to improve someones perception. Partly the idea is to be closer with people having positive IR and farther from those in negative IR. Farther in the sense of personal contact, when you follow to social norms of being polite and tolerating and not when honestly express your thoughts and wishes. And physically farther would help too, certainly.
    Bad IR people are not bad themselves. They are more different and hard for you (other valued variants of functions, which are same important as your own valued ones). They can be useful and interesting to deal with. The main problem - this takes more resources to accept the good they may give, to give them what they wish. If you have better and stronger psycher state - you'll feel lesser of problem to deal with them. The lesser accented Jung type is in you - the easier to deal with people having negative IR too.

    For ILE as examples what they should like, of a care: Si - pleasant sensations (tasty food, your pleasant look, make him to feel physically good and pleasant), Fe - inspiration to higher emotional state (humor, to say how good he his and what he does, good what you do together). By J/P - to accept easier changes in his plans, E/I - to be not very loud.

  7. #7
    numa numa yay kuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,040
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yurijesus View Post
    Ti Usage

    i think it's my friends Ti usage that actually drives me insane. he'll start arguments about things i'm more knowledgeable about, which i take seriously and try to defend my point piece by piece, meanwhile he's giggling because he thinks we're joking around, but he really does sound like hes taking the argument seriously! meanwhile from his perspective, i'm the one starting arguments by taking him seriously. additionally, i know i can be uptight about my use of Fi, which i understand can be irritating to others who might not value fi/understand my usage of it, but his total lack of regards for rules that seem "stupid" drives me crazy. he mispronounces words knowing that its the wrong pronounciation, i correct him, and he's like "i know and i don't care i'm saying it this way", which is really small, but extends further to a lot of how our interactions play out.

    Ne Usage

    i have less issues with his Ne usage. the way he and ILE's as a whole quickly deem details/information valuable/not valuable drives me a bit crazy. i really dont understand that all, probably because i pay so much attention to the little things.

    additionally, (i'm not sure what this is related to, for context he's an sp7 and i'm an sx6) he'll have trouble doing something, then i come and help him because i noticed something he didnt/have more experience, and then he seems dejected or like he thinks that i believe him to be stupid or uncapable. it makes me feel bad, because all i want to do is help him out and care for him the way i do others.

    i understand that conflictors are essentially doomed, especially in our case, but i still value our friendship deeply and wish to get along better with those i dont quite understand better o7 thank you sm!
    You know this already but this difference between you both is a result of vastly different perspectives. You would have to start realizing that his constantly “jokey” wielding of Ti is perhaps a result of his leading Ne loving to have fun with logic, and not taking it seriously. And I think this is also how different valued elements lead to different Quadra values. As a result, Alphas tend to have a lighter and “merrier” feel than Gammas—even the more melancholic LIIs tend to have a lightness to them compared to ILIs, because LIIs value Fe.

    My dad is like you in a lot of the things you’ve written about yourself, although he’s an LSI. He’s come to enjoy Ne more as he’s gotten older, but throughout much of his life, he wasn’t always very fond of Ne antics. He isn’t hardwired to consider various viewpoints and debate different perspectives. He also hates playing devil’s advocate and hates other people doing that, too. I often enjoy playing devil’s advocate or having other people do that, but admittedly I also take certain debates too seriously to be able to do so. For me, it just depends on the situation.

    For me, it’s been a process of realizing that ILEs take joy in the process of debating (and so do I, but I’m much more attached to my own ethical ideals than ILEs). I have to realize it’s just not that serious. In time, I’ve realized I enjoy joking around with ILEs (and anyone who debates like this) about logical stuff and not taking debates to heart… In fact, I think debates are much more pleasant when they’re not taken to heart, because then nobody gets too intensely passionate and loses their mind while trying to argue their points.

    So I would suggest to not take your ILE friend’s Ne or Ti too seriously, if possible. Logic can be a fun game, if the situation isn’t serious. But don’t be afraid to call out your ILE friend if he’s being insensitive, of course! He needs to respect your feelings, too.

  8. #8
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,212
    Mentioned
    1550 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @yurijesus, you can get along with anyone if you are willing to compromise your values.

    The greater the difference in your values, the more you have to compromise. I don't have to tell you that ESI-Se are going to have a hard time compromising their values.

    The concept of Duality is based on this idea, although in real life, the need for compromise can be mitigated if the other person shares some of your interests, or is valuable to you in some way. It was for these reasons that I stayed married to my Supervisor (which has been described as one-way Conflict) for many years. I simply suppressed my own wishes and dreams in order to get along with her, but in the meantime, she provided support for my PoLR function, Si, so she took care of decorating and health issues. What helped tremendously was the fact that she and I were fantastically compatible on paper. That is, we were about the same height, same age, same attractiveness, same intelligence, same earning power, same life goals (mostly), and had similar world views.
    Despite all that, the marriage still failed.

    I know several Conflictors, and have worked with one for over ten years. She's smart, attractive, dedicated to her work, dresses impeccably, and is a joy to be around. Nevertheless, the reason we've been able to work together for so long is that I say almost nothing to her beyond "Good morning, Jill", and I never stand close enough to her to get involved in a conversation where our polar opposite world views would become manifestly apparent.

    My advice for getting along with Conflictors is to treat them as if they were a source of extremely hot radioactivity. If you need to, you can get close to them for a short time, or you can stand far away from them for a much longer time, before the damage becomes fatal.

    If this person is your constant companion, then I suspect that one of your parents is ILE and you are used to the abuse. Maybe it's time to step back, explore the world of better possibilities open to you, and see who is truly the wind under your wings.

  9. #9
    I'm not hungry mommy bear BrainlessSquid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Where North meets South
    TIM
    IEE-Fi
    Posts
    1,289
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yurijesus View Post
    like the title says, i'm an ESI wishing to get along better with my ILE friend. after figuring out his sociotype, we (as a pair) reviewed the relationship between ESI and ILE and (as expected) related heavily to the description of conflictors. i really like my friend and want to understand him better and get along as best as we can while being conflictors thank you in advance for any advice/anecdotes or just general discussion about this topic. have a great day y'all o/
    I have a conflictor father. My advice for you is let them talk as much as they wish, but don't take what they say personally. They never intend to hurt you. Don't compare their cognitive skills with yours either, and use a very simple language when it's your turn to talk to them.
    That is, if you're really willing to put the effort into it. I'd rather stay away since the values and worldviews are hardly compatible, there's little to be gained from such interactions.
    Sometimes you don't have motivation because you lack purpose.
    Sometimes you don't have purpose, because you lack self-knowledge
    Sometimes you don't have self-knowledge because you lack love
    Sometimes you don't have love because you lack self-love
    Sometimes you don't have self-love because you lack guess what? Ask Gulenko!!

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,335
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm an EII and have had an ILE friend for a long time, some ups lots of downs, what I've learned is that even if you try really hard not to take what he says seriously it will be almost impossible to sustain that because it is most likely a reflex for you to take what he is saying seriously unless it is very obvious to you that it is a joke. To not take him seriously would be to assume that he is never serious, which is a good assumption for him but probably is not how your brain is wired to perceive people, I imagine you expect clear signs when someone is joking like most people do. So in this case you would experience the reflex of taking what someone says serious, then have to backtrack, then remind yourself this particular person is not to be taken serious, then not take him seriously. It's way too much one-sided psychological effort on your part without any from him, it's pitted against you, these mental gymnastics are are not sustainable, been there done that, not worth it.

    The ways I've been able to find peace with my ILE friend was to stop telling him anything really personal, things I really cared about or that would be a sensitive topic or sore spot, because I knew at some point it would be used against me for his own entertainment. This helped alot. This caused me to keep him at arms length, but that kept things peaceful. I don't have to deal with their Ti attacking my Fi as much.

    I also learned from both my ILE friends that whenever they say or do something that has crossed the line with me (usually based on something personal I told them in confidence), giving them the silent treatment for a few weeks would usually get across the idea that what they did was unacceptable to me and they need to stop. This was way more effective than the direct approach of telling them to stop, yelling at them to stop, or even at times physically hitting them so that they would stop, which I've tried all 3. Silent treatment worked the best.

    After all that you can try out new things with them and go on adventures with them without your Fi being on constant lookout for the next deep cut coming your way.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 10-13-2023 at 06:41 AM.

  11. #11
    pixie dreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Wandering in the woods...
    Posts
    574
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol somehow for me I offend ILEs not the other way around. Goodluck Charlie. But uhh, maybe not think of the problems in socionics terms. Just in general terms. In this case it would mean you don't feel like your friend takes you serious (how you feel, your thoughts, etc). and probably you feel like they're not serious enough about a lot of things. My advice might be playing devils advocate too but why not challenge them too? Surprise them /shrugs

  12. #12
    sp/so 8w9 863 VFEL SCUEN Asshole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    TIM
    CS: SLE
    Posts
    1,607
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry Milk View Post
    lol somehow for me I offend ILEs not the other way around. Goodluck Charlie. But uhh, maybe not think of the problems in socionics terms. Just in general terms. In this case it would mean you don't feel like your friend takes you serious (how you feel, your thoughts, etc). and probably you feel like they're not serious enough about a lot of things. My advice might be playing devils advocate too but why not challenge them too? Surprise them /shrugs

    You are ESI???

  13. #13
    sp/so 8w9 863 VFEL SCUEN Asshole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    TIM
    CS: SLE
    Posts
    1,607
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yurijesus View Post
    like the title says, i'm an ESI wishing to get along better with my ILE friend. after figuring out his sociotype, we (as a pair) reviewed the relationship between ESI and ILE and (as expected) related heavily to the description of conflictors. i really like my friend and want to understand him better and get along as best as we can while being conflictors thank you in advance for any advice/anecdotes or just general discussion about this topic. have a great day y'all o/
    Eh, can't help much but...

    I recommend that you joke along with them, remember that they aren't always serious. Call them gay

  14. #14
    pixie dreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Wandering in the woods...
    Posts
    574
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hsiao View Post
    You are ESI???
    No

  15. #15
    pixie dreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Wandering in the woods...
    Posts
    574
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    But I always wondered why I don't necessarily "click" with that type. It's happened more than I consider it being a coincidence. Nothing about them puts me off but it's like I somehow scare them away or disgust them. They expect a joke or a laugh and I'm giving them a death stare like -_- not even thinking of anything

  16. #16
    sp/so 8w9 863 VFEL SCUEN Asshole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    TIM
    CS: SLE
    Posts
    1,607
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry Milk View Post
    No

    ILE????

  17. #17
    pixie dreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Wandering in the woods...
    Posts
    574
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hsiao View Post
    ILE????
    I self type as IEE ik it's unrelated to the thread but I thought I could share my experiences too, even if socionics is only a theory it can add a different level of understanding with dynamics.

  18. #18
    sp/so 8w9 863 VFEL SCUEN Asshole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    TIM
    CS: SLE
    Posts
    1,607
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pixie dreams View Post
    I self type as IEE ik it's unrelated to the thread but I thought I could share my experiences too, even if socionics is only a theory it can add a different level of understanding with dynamics.

    Haha, IEE's are human helicopters

    Jokes aside, that's nice

  19. #19
    pixie dreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Wandering in the woods...
    Posts
    574
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hsiao View Post
    Haha, IEE's are human helicopters

    Jokes aside, that's nice
    You're strange

  20. #20
    sp/so 8w9 863 VFEL SCUEN Asshole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    TIM
    CS: SLE
    Posts
    1,607
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pixie dreams View Post
    You're strange
    And I'm surviving off of 3 hours of sleep again after editing photos and attempting to teach my mom to photoshop even though she's glued to her phone 24/7

    I'm just going crazy from overwork here lmao

  21. #21
    pixie dreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Location
    Wandering in the woods...
    Posts
    574
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hsiao View Post
    And I'm surviving off of 3 hours of sleep again after editing photos and attempting to teach my mom to photoshop even though she's glued to her phone 24/7

    I'm just going crazy from overwork here lmao
    Get some rest then

  22. #22
    sp/so 8w9 863 VFEL SCUEN Asshole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2023
    TIM
    CS: SLE
    Posts
    1,607
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pixie dreams View Post
    Get some rest then

    I will :>

  23. #23
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,852
    Mentioned
    293 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yurijesus View Post
    like the title says, i'm an ESI wishing to get along better with my ILE friend. after figuring out his sociotype, we (as a pair) reviewed the relationship between ESI and ILE and (as expected) related heavily to the description of conflictors. i really like my friend and want to understand him better and get along as best as we can while being conflictors thank you in advance for any advice/anecdotes or just general discussion about this topic. have a great day y'all o/
    The key to getting along with/understanding/etc. anyone lies not in Socionics but in attachment theory.

    It'll likely be hard as hell to do this but you have to just tell the other person exactly what you honestly want out of them. Yeah, what you want out of each other is on the surface maddening but you both can give the other what they want if, and only if, you are being completely honest with each other. This is how I get along great with my LII cousin and his ESE wife. We're just completely honest with each other.

    The LII respects this and we both give his wife plenty of space when we start discussing anything "controversial" as it were. We all know what we're all about and even if we disagree with each other in critical areas we all know that we're family and that when it comes down to brass tacks we got each other's backs. Helps that all of us are Christians (even if they aren't Catholic like myself) and that none of us are full on wokies but that still figures into being totally open and honest with each other.

    If you cannot comfortably relate your own needs and desires to another person in an honest discourse can you really call them your friend? How about family or lover? People often accuse us Gamma types of being "transactional" in our relationships but life is ultimately a game and the only question that must be asked is if we're playing "fair" as it were. Being up front and honest about what we "want" out of a relationship is just common courtesy IMO.

    If you want a "friend" just walk up to them, say you'd like to be friends, and tell them what that means to you and what you expect out of them. Of course, you will reciprocate. How could you not? You're not an actual sociopath and will return any kindness visited upon you however manyfold you think is fair. Likewise, beware making our types your enemy. For while we often return kindness with more kindness than we received so to do we return injury/cruelty with the same multiple. Do not fuck with us or with the few people we actually care about. You're not gonna like the retribution we come up with...

  24. #24
    Not sensitive! HolyKnowing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    ILI-H
    Posts
    452
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    life is ultimately a game
    Game implies do-overs. But what does the Bible say, pace the Buddha?

    "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment:" (Hebrews 9:27 Douay-Rheims)
    [Today 03:36 AM] anotherperson: this forum feels like the edge of the internet

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •