So really, the ONLY benefit to being with your dual

[stevENTj]

Really? I find this interesting. Though, I can't read the Russian. So, some questions: Are all these couples confirmed? I mean, what if some of the typings are wrong? What ages were the couples in the study? How long had they been married? Because it would seem to me that, the longer a couple is together, the more they would naturally "dualize" themselves, so that as they got older they might test as a different type than what they really are...?

Yeah that's true - people do tend to dualize themselves. As a pretty firm ESI, my wife is looking for me to be more of an LIE sometimes, and in a lot of ways I am for her. But I'm not really an LIE. When we first started dating though, I was totally more IPish and did need to learn to be a lot more proactive and take charge about things. Wasn't that hard, really.

As for the stats, what I thought was interesting was that 64% of people marry within their quadra. I think the 71% figure was when only looking at married couples from a particular quadra, 71% of the time they were duals. 45% of married couples are duals overall, and 64% marry within their quadra. Sounds pretty believable to me.

[stevENTj]

Could a Conflicting couple have a chance at a long-term relationship? Possibly, under extremely unusual external circumstances. But a happy long-term relationship? Very, very unlikely. There could certainly be occasional moments of happiness, but the relationship would be characterized by high levels of tension and unease. The circumstances required to keep a Conflicting couple together would have to be extremely strong, and almost never occur in practice.

In my opinion external circumstances matter less than is commonly believed. People argue about money, family, smoking, etc., but those are generally just surface issues, catalysts that bring deeper psychological incompatibilities to light. Relationships don't end because the couple can't agree on what to eat for dinner. Relationships end because incompatible types have a very hard time resolving even minor disagreements like what to eat for dinner.

Certainly there are cases where external circumstances can end even a Dual relationship, particularly in the early stages. Geographic issues are a big one. But once a close psychological distance has been established, most relational issues between psychologically healthy Duals can be overcome with relatively minimal effort. It's not that Duality somehow makes everything else "miraculously" work out. It's that the ease of communication in Duality relationships makes it very easy to reach mutually acceptable solutions.

Disagree.

Where we're diverging is the part that I bolded. I believe that psychological compatibility and 'comfort' level is relatively a bit less important than a lot of people here might believe and that other factors can override a lot, whereas you believe it's relatively more important and that the external factors are less so.

I'll use a good friend of mine as an example. I've never typed him but as far as I know he might be an SEE or dual for me. We communicate and share ideas very easily and naturally. We used to have fun debating politics all the time, with him being on the liberal side and me on the conservative. At the end of the day I completely understood and had mutual respect for his ideas and beliefs and where he was coming from, but simply disagreed and didn't share the same world view or beliefs. But I respected his views and positions, and vice versa. We joked that we ought to start a TV show like Crossfire or something, LOL. So anyways, the point is that yeah Duality can allow you to communicate easily and share ideas and information, but it doesn't mean that you're going to reach mutually acceptable solutions that are agreeable to both.

Say one half of a dual pair had an absolutely horrible experience growing up and was adamant about not wanting a family at all and would never change their mind, but the other half of the dual pair really wanted one badly and would never accept not having one. Duality would allow them to easily and naturally share their ideas and experiences, but it doesn't mean a mutually acceptable solution could be reached. There is no middle ground or compromise here. Either you decide to have a family or you don't.

And if psychological comfort factors were so overriding, then how could my folks possibly have made it as long as they have for so long and still be happy. I'm not saying there's not awkwardness and tension and 'discomfort' because there is, but still... Other factors seem to override all of that.

The things I mentioned aren't simply surface issues, believe me. That's a big time white-washing. A lot of them can run pretty deeply.

Personally I think human relations at least from the romantic standpoint are about 1/3rd psychological, 1/3rd physical attraction and sexual chemistry, and 1/3rd "life views" and other external factors like the above.

[golden]

Could a Conflicting couple have a chance at a long-term relationship? Possibly, under extremely unusual external circumstances. But a happy long-term relationship? Very, very unlikely. There could certainly be occasional moments of happiness, but the relationship would be characterized by high levels of tension and unease. The circumstances required to keep a Conflicting couple together would have to be extremely strong, and almost never occur in practice.

In my opinion external circumstances matter less than is commonly believed. People argue about money, family, smoking, etc., but those are generally just surface issues, catalysts that bring deeper psychological incompatibilities to light. Relationships don't end because the couple can't agree on what to eat for dinner. Relationships end because incompatible types have a very hard time resolving even minor disagreements like what to eat for dinner.

Certainly there are cases where external circumstances can end even a Dual relationship, particularly in the early stages. Geographic issues are a big one. But once a close psychological distance has been established, most relational issues between psychologically healthy Duals can be overcome with relatively minimal effort. It's not that Duality somehow makes everything else "miraculously" work out. It's that the ease of communication in Duality relationships makes it very easy to reach mutually acceptable solutions.

Thank you, Krig. Just 'cause you expressed my views better than I could have.

I don't see any reason why an activity marriage could not succeed; I'd be willing to try an activity relationship, even though the J/P thing would sometimes rankle. There are other types of relations I'd consider, too--just depending on how I felt about the person.

Having been in a conflict marriage, I would say that I knew very, very well HOW to make my particular relationship succeed--and that was by giving up on myself and going along with what my husband wanted and needed. And no (@Steve), I'm not saying that's what must happen in every conflict relationship--if my ex had been willing to also give up some things, make some concessions, if it had been more 50/50, maybe we could have stayed together, even though some aspects of the relationship would have remained unfulfilling. We were compatible in many of the externals. But I just couldn't do it anymore, and my ex knew it. He didn't understand it, mind you, but he knew.

I think Krig is very accurate when he says, in effect, that the relational context determines how well issues can be resolved. That principle doesn't depend on Socionics, either--Socionics is only a lens through which to view relationships.

All that said, I really have no idea if I can make a dual relationship work. The dual I've been falling for? I'm not sure we'll be able to get past the beginning. There are stages so far when I feel "dualizing" occurring, and there are stages when I, at least, have to retreat into what feels like a safe place internally. And it doesn't help that we're talking IEI-Fe/SLE-Ti, because that's a recipe for freaking drama.

[stevENTj]

So two Conflictor marriages here.

One bombed out unfortunately, and the other is 40+ years of marriage I believe.


My dad is undoubtedly LIE. I supposed I could be wrong about my mom, but her and are always on display strongly, and she's clearly IP temperament so I can't think of what else to type her as besides SEI.

Another thing I think comes into play is even how 'strong' of a type you are also. How well and easily are you able to develop and use some of your weaker functions, perhaps to fill in in other areas?

Edit: here's another way to look at this, or at least how I see things.

1/3rd physical/sexual chemistry
1/3rd "life views" and other external factors
1/3rd psychological compatibility

You have to have at least some physical attraction - you can't completely bomb out there. And if you're fundamentally compatible in the 'life views' areas then guess what? There's going to be far less in the way of conflicts to resolve in the first place, which means psychological compatibility and ease of resolving problems is not going to be nearly as big of a deal since you're already on the same page there. You're more free to simply enjoy the chemistry knowing that the life views and many external things are already synchronized and don't need discussing or resolving.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Say one half of a dual pair had an absolutely horrible experience growing up and was adamant about not wanting a family at all and would never change their mind, but the other half of the dual pair really wanted one badly and would never accept not having one. Duality would allow them to easily and naturally share their ideas and experiences, but it doesn't mean a mutually acceptable solution could be reached. There is no middle ground or compromise here. Either you decide to have a family or you don't.

That's true but irrelevant to the question at hand. If one's personal values are adamant against having kids, then a relationship with someone who absolutely does want kids will never work out, no matter what their psychological relationship type is. Dual 0% chance, conflictor 0% chance, activity 0% chance, etc. That does nothing to answer the original question that Duality has a better chance to succeed, given the same circumstances, than other types.

Moreover, if people are so emotionally scarred, in the example you mentioned, they may have problems giving/taking in a normal healthy relationship anyway. Usually two healthy duals, willing to change/share their goals, are much more likely to make a relationship work, than healthy types of a different relationship, in my opinion.

And I agree with your thoughts that people on this site overvalue psychological comfort levels. It's a socionics site, after all.

I agree with Krig also about overcoming differences/geographic distance being easy once that psychological connection has been made, and communication is made easy.

[Beautiful sky]

Bolded is absolutely spot on. Duality is not a panacea, it's just the best possible context for an already good-quality relationship.

That's not true; duals live within each other, so they need each other anyway; they need each other to give them the advice on things they are looking for answers for but are in their subconscious; things about themselves they knew but couldn't find the words to express. The dual lives within the mind.

Anyway, my addition to this threat:

Confictors may have similar political views, taste in food, interest in the same TV programs/shows, entertainment, religion/faith/beliefs; my conflictory types and I enjoy a lot of the same interests, but we don't agree that one should practice being good for practice, as my conflictors focus on experiencing and gathering experiences. I am also much more concerned about living a life style that is inviting and for the lack of a better word, keeps up appearances for my self, family, community. My conflictory types are not concerned about these appearances, as they are only concerned about keeping a lifestyle that's comfortable for them. I like to protect the integrity of the family (for the risk of sounding God Father-ish ) for the same reasons about keeping private and keeping up appearances, which again is not a concern of SLE; I am a lot more conscientious about how I carry this off while most other EII will be very aggressive and forceful about looking and keeping this type of lifestyle.

[golden]

Another thing I think comes into play is even how 'strong' of a type you are also. How well and easily are you able to develop and use some of your weaker functions, perhaps to fill in in other areas?

My ex is like textbook LSE, and I'm textbookish IEI. If you buy into the EM theory, I might have a Delta EM.

It may be that some conflictor pairings are potentially worse than others. Dunno.

Edit: here's another way to look at this, or at least how I see things.

1/3rd physical/sexual chemistry
1/3rd "life views" and other external factors
1/3rd psychological compatibility

I can't get into assigning proportions to those three categories, but yes, you've identified three important domains.

The thing is, these things are not constant--they evolve. My ex and I were compatible enough when we started out. Physically we were okay--but not spectacular, which I think in retrospect was a problem. "Life views" and other externals, we were very aligned, we thought. Psychological incompatibility only became clear over time. And isn't that how Socionics describes the intertype dynamics--the long view?

Also, these areas you describe are interrelated. The externals of our marriage shifted with the birth of my son, and subsequently relocating across country--shifted radically. *omits details*

The external changes revealed that our life views were coming out of sync. (Gender roles, etc.) As our life views grew farther apart, the power dynamics turned nasty, and then the sexual compatibility also weakened.

I've read a lot of good books on divorce now, and that kind of domino scenario seems to be pretty common.

I'm not sure how to put this ... but I have some vaguely formed questions in mind concerning coupledom in the post-feminist world and how type interrelations could become more important the more that partners attempt to be equals. This line of thought may be colored by the particular problems my marriage faced, because it often occurred to me that if my ex and I had been married, oh, a hundred years ago, when the gender roles in most marriages were more pre-ordained, our marriage would have been more successful. Often, we were reasonably happy, although increasingly that was only on the surface. We could not make anything work over the long term. Where we needed to cooperate toward big life goals, we couldn't. We tried, but the only way to get anything done was for one person to "lose out."

[Creepy-Snaps]

Golden,

Maybe I'm having a Feeling moment lol, but I love reading your posts on this thread. You can tell you're very personally touched by this discussion.

Sorry your marriage didn't work out. I have a friend whose marriage sounds similar to what you described, where her husband had great difficulties seeing his wife as 'equal', downplayed her accomplishments, was outright sexist, etc., which led to divorce. Dunno how severe it was for you, but more power to ya, for standing up for yourself.

[Kirana]

...is the complete psychological comfort.

My dual could have a completely different world view than me, in which case we would not be compatible. He could have totally opposite life goals, in which case he would be utterly unsuitable. We could be of different faiths, different political opinions, etc. etc. etc. and all these differences would combine to produce conflict after conflict.

So really, IMO, duality relationships don't really have any greater chance of long-term success in the real world than any other type relation.

not sure about the conclusion, but i get the reasoning if by 'relationship' you mean 'marriage' or eventually leading to marriage. psychological compatibility may often not be enough to preserve the marriage (because of the nature of what it is, a social unit, a family structure - not going to go into this) but concurrence on other key things could depending on what's most important to the individuals concerned. at least the two people have got to agree on where they're headed to together, and generally on the values with which the children will be raised. besides, you can have a dual best friend while marrying someone who is not your dual. it would also reduce the stress of the dependence on your spouse - he/she needn't be everything to you every time.

but if by relationship you mean 'a probably temporary accommodation for mutual companionship without commitment to form a family', then probably duals would have a clear advantage.

i did not marry my dual, by the way. and i do have a best friend who is my dual. unfortunately she married her super-ego, which if you work it out from my type is an ENTj, and i see her less than i would like to now. if i did marry my dual, we'd have an infantile-infantile interaction, which i rather think would be less satisfying than my current infantile-caregiver interaction.

[golden]

Golden,

Maybe I'm having a Feeling moment lol, but I love reading your posts on this thread. You can tell you're very personally touched by this discussion.

Sorry your marriage didn't work out. I have a friend whose marriage sounds similar to what you described, where her husband had great difficulties seeing his wife as 'equal', downplayed her accomplishments, was outright sexist, etc., which led to divorce. Dunno how severe it was for you, but more power to ya, for standing up for yourself.

Aw, thanks.

Honestly, I'm not sure I will ever really understand my ex. He paid lip service to my equality, but in practice everything he wanted, all of his decisions, rendered me less than equal.

When I told him that we had a power imbalance, he refused to listen, refused to see that. In fact, it made him very angry. The divorce itself turned into a situation of him using that power imbalance against me in a manner that is incomprehensibly cruel, and yet ...

he continues--and always will continue--to see himself as the prototypical Nice Guy. It would have been easier for me if he'd just come out and been transparently sexist. To be sexist and deny it was far worse.

[golden]

if i did marry my dual, we'd have an infantile-infantile interaction, which i rather think would be less satisfying than my current infantile-caregiver interaction.

Wait--ESE is your dual, correct? And ESE is a caregiver. I believe that the dual pairs are all either Caregiver/Infantile or Aggressor/Victim matches.

[silverchris9]

Wait--ESE is your dual, correct? And ESE is a caregiver. I believe that the dual pairs are all either Caregiver/Infantile or Aggressor/Victim matches.

[chip]

this is one of the best threads I've read in awhile. for real.

honestly I'm inclined to agree with the original post: psychological comfort is the only real benefit of duality but I do not feel disappointment when my daily interaction with people means spending time with at least someone who gives me peace of mind.

Time and time again lovers remain lovers because they are but not because they're passionate for one another. Friends remain friends because they are but they would really just be friendless without them.

For anyone who spends a few minutes with their dual and has self awareness to realize your feeling more comfortable than you were just a few minutes ago is enough to convince me that those few minutues justifies wanting to spend a life time with them whether that be as lovers or friends. The same can be said of activity partners but not to the same extent.

I mean to say there is many people I love, many people I like, and many people I'm quite fond of but there is not many people I can say I could withstand living with day in and day out. The sole exception might be my dual but the future remains unwritten.

[pumpkin]

Wow! This was awesome!

[1981slater]

...is the complete psychological comfort.

My dual could have a completely different world view than me, in which case we would not be compatible. He could have totally opposite life goals, in which case he would be utterly unsuitable. We could be of different faiths, different political opinions, etc. etc. etc. and all these differences would combine to produce conflict after conflict.

So really, IMO, duality relationships don't really have any greater chance of long-term success in the real world than any other type relation.

If you mean romantical relationships, duality is not all that matters, of course. When it comes to friends/relatives, duality is the best of the best by far. Enjoy it!

So, REALLY the ONLY benefit of breathing is that it keeps you alive! Jesus! Why don't we just stop now!

And the only thing that stops hair fall is the ground

[Nexus]

being with your dual helps you develop your weak valued functions, they are the only ones who can help you where you most likely need help the most...

[Jarno]

being with your dual helps you develop your weak valued functions, they are the only ones who can help you where you most likely need help the most...

They don't help developing them. They help you were you are incapable.

[Trevor]

You don't really feel the need for developing those when they're around.

[Jarno]

You don't really feel the need for developing those when they're around.

exactly.

[Suz]

They don't help developing them. They help you were you are incapable.

That's true, life/work gets drastically easier when a dual is involved. But i do think that duals sort of learn from each other too, but that happens over time.

[pianosinger]

Okay, so, I can see now where my dual would make life a little easier...particularly where Si, and Se come into play.

Obviously, I'm already married, and happily so, so I'm not going to be trading in my husband for my dual. And anyway, we are duals, as far as I'm concerned, where it matters most (please don't ask me to explain what that means as I'm not sure I could explain it lol).

Two things that I currently lack that would be nice...Someone else to do the housework, and someone else to manage my schedule lol If I had the money, I could hire a maid and a secretary...hah.

I also don't enjoy having to discipline my kids, but at the same time, I don't know that I would want to entrust that job to anyone else besides myself and close family, so...I'm not hiring anyone else to do that. I even have mixed feelings about sending my kids to public school, but it'll probably happen anyway since I'm sure I will appreciate the break.

[Jarno]

And anyway, we are duals, as far as I'm concerned, where it matters most (please don't ask me to explain what that means as I'm not sure I could explain it lol).

idealisation = self-deception

[pianosinger]

idealisation = self-deception

Okay, I see I'm going to have to try to explain...

I am not idealizing my relationship with my husband. We have our struggles like any couple. But we are a team. We work together. And where we do have weaknesses, we help and support each other. This may not always come as easily as it would if we were psychological duals, but we do our best and compensate where necessary.

When it comes to the rational elements, his are exactly in line with my Dual, and mine are in line with his Dual. So, we're halfway there...

When it comes to the irrational elements, we have had to make adjustments, but for the most part I think we've been pretty successful. Though we are not actually duals, we can sometimes manage to act as duals where necessary, and that's what I meant in my original statement.

[Suz]

Okay, I see I'm going to have to try to explain...

I am not idealizing my relationship with my husband. We have our struggles like any couple. But we are a team. We work together. And where we do have weaknesses, we help and support each other. This may not always come as easily as it would if we were psychological duals, but we do our best and compensate where necessary.

When it comes to the rational elements, his are exactly in line with my Dual, and mine are in line with his Dual. So, we're halfway there...

When it comes to the irrational elements, we have had to make adjustments, but for the most part I think we've been pretty successful. Though we are not actually duals, we can sometimes manage to act as duals where necessary, and that's what I meant in my original statement.

OK i disagree with Jarno in saying what he said in that last post. The point of what we are saying is NOT to question your relationship with your husband. As people have already mentioned, a large proportion of people are not married to their duals and have a happy marriage. Heck, he's you're ILLUSIONARY which is, like you said, almost duality! And besides, all that matters is how your relationship FEELS, and as long as you both are happy with it, nothing else matters.

And who knows, maybe you're mistyping yourself or him and you actually ARE duals, you just never can tell with such a vague subjective system as socionics. As you've seen in the delta forum, duality marriages arent always peachy too.

[pianosinger]

Neh, we're not Duals by socionics terms. Really, the Illusionary relationship describes us almost perfectly, and most accurately explains our struggles. Especially with our Role and Suggestive functions.

[Suz]

Neh, we're not Duals by socionics terms. Really, the Illusionary relationship describes us almost perfectly, and most accurately explains our struggles. Especially with our Role and Suggestive functions.

But you got my point right?

[pianosinger]

But you got my point right?

Which one?



Yeah, we're good... :wink:

[Suz]

You with a bunny in the green grass too, aixel???? lol


I believe I have truly initiated a trend here on the16types.

[twizzlestix]

Okay, so, I can see now where my dual would make life a little easier...particularly where Si, and Se come into play.

Obviously, I'm already married, and happily so, so I'm not going to be trading in my husband for my dual. And anyway, we are duals, as far as I'm concerned, where it matters most (please don't ask me to explain what that means as I'm not sure I could explain it lol).

Two things that I currently lack that would be nice...Someone else to do the housework, and someone else to manage my schedule lol If I had the money, I could hire a maid and a secretary...hah.

I also don't enjoy having to discipline my kids, but at the same time, I don't know that I would want to entrust that job to anyone else besides myself and close family, so...I'm not hiring anyone else to do that. I even have mixed feelings about sending my kids to public school, but it'll probably happen anyway since I'm sure I will appreciate the break.

I have a teenage kid and my dual has helped me to be less of a sucker when I'm being manipulated by her. Not that she's particularly manipulative, I think most teenagers probably are. It's brought a bit of friction into the situation as she feels I am being bossy now all of a sudden but I can see now that it is important to have boundaries. I used to let her get away with murder, the way she used to speak to me was a disgrace. I don't want her turning out like one of those teenagers from jerry springer saying "I'll do what I want"

I've dreamt about getting a maid and a cleaner too but my dual has taught me how to keep the place tidy without it being a major upheavel. I'm finding it alot easier now. He did this by criticising and annoying me and I found it really hard and very nearly broke up with him because of it but I can see now it was what I needed to get me to snap out of it. It was like a short sharp shock to get me to break away from my old bad behaviour. It made me stop and re-evaluate everything. It feels very rewarding to finally have mastered something I have struggled with all my life.

Someone said that religious views have to be the same for things to work out. I don't agree with this. A persons religion isn't set in stone. I remember when I was 14, I was a christian and a very devout one at that. My boyfriend at the time was not. He made me look at religion from a whole new perspective and made me see that there might not be a god. I don't know what the right religion is now or if it is all just an illusion. I think there is something mysterious going on but can't and wont come to a conclusion on something that no one can possibly say for sure is true or not. It seems like a very silly reason to turn down your dual because they don't have the same deluded views as you. Sorry if that offends anyone but if you claim to know with 100% certainty which religion is right then you are deluded. End of story.

[golden]

I have a teenage kid and my dual has helped me to be less of a sucker when I'm being manipulated by her. Not that she's particularly manipulative, I think most teenagers probably are. It's brought a bit of friction into the situation as she feels I am being bossy now all of a sudden but I can see now that it is important to have boundaries. I used to let her get away with murder, the way she used to speak to me was a disgrace. I don't want her turning out like one of those teenagers from jerry springer saying "I'll do what I want"

I've dreamt about getting a maid and a cleaner too but my dual has taught me how to keep the place tidy without it being a major upheavel. I'm finding it alot easier now. He did this by criticising and annoying me and I found it really hard and very nearly broke up with him because of it but I can see now it was what I needed to get me to snap out of it. It was like a short sharp shock to get me to break away from my old bad behaviour. It made me stop and re-evaluate everything. It feels very rewarding to finally have mastered something I have struggled with all my life.

Someone said that religious views have to be the same for things to work out. I don't agree with this. A persons religion isn't set in stone. I remember when I was 14, I was a christian and a very devout one at that. My boyfriend at the time was not. He made me look at religion from a whole new perspective and made me see that there might not be a god. I don't know what the right religion is now or if it is all just an illusion. I think there is something mysterious going on but can't and wont come to a conclusion on something that no one can possibly say for sure is true or not. It seems like a very silly reason to turn down your dual because they don't havhe the same deluded views as you. Sorry if that offends anyone but if you claim to know with 100% certainty which religion is right then you are deluded. End of story.

Well, regarding the last paragraph, you changed your religious views at a young age in response to your boyfriend's differing values. What if you had dug in your heels and refused to change your ideas? What if you had gone further and continually and rigidly foisted your religion on him? What if you'd both been older when you met and quite set in your religious convictions?

I'm not sure that "they" say people have to have the same religion in order to form a partnership, but it's about 0 percent likely that I'll ever hook up with someone whose religious and spiritual ideas are completely at odds with mine. I can deal with a certain amount of disagreement on that front, and a certain amount of political disagreement, and not much more.

Maybe my views on this are somewhat shaped by watching many of my family members in the southern U.S. get increasingly Bible-thumpy over the years as they age. It would suck to partner up with someone who was only sort of religious and see them get holier as time passed, since I'm never going to go that direction.

Just thinkin'.

[ladyinred]

I have a teenage kid and my dual has helped me to be less of a sucker when I'm being manipulated by her. Not that she's particularly manipulative, I think most teenagers probably are. It's brought a bit of friction into the situation as she feels I am being bossy now all of a sudden but I can see now that it is important to have boundaries. I used to let her get away with murder, the way she used to speak to me was a disgrace. I don't want her turning out like one of those teenagers from jerry springer saying "I'll do what I want"

I've dreamt about getting a maid and a cleaner too but my dual has taught me how to keep the place tidy without it being a major upheavel. I'm finding it alot easier now. He did this by criticising and annoying me and I found it really hard and very nearly broke up with him because of it but I can see now it was what I needed to get me to snap out of it. It was like a short sharp shock to get me to break away from my old bad behaviour. It made me stop and re-evaluate everything. It feels very rewarding to finally have mastered something I have struggled with all my life.

Someone said that religious views have to be the same for things to work out. I don't agree with this. A persons religion isn't set in stone. I remember when I was 14, I was a christian and a very devout one at that. My boyfriend at the time was not. He made me look at religion from a whole new perspective and made me see that there might not be a god. I don't know what the right religion is now or if it is all just an illusion. I think there is something mysterious going on but can't and wont come to a conclusion on something that no one can possibly say for sure is true or not. It seems like a very silly reason to turn down your dual because they don't have the same deluded views as you. Sorry if that offends anyone but if you claim to know with 100% certainty which religion is right then you are deluded. End of story.

what type r you??

[twizzlestix]

Well, regarding the last paragraph, you changed your religious views at a young age in response to your boyfriend's differing values. What if you had dug in your heels and refused to change your ideas? What if you had gone further and continually and rigidly foisted your religion on him? What if you'd both been older when you met and quite set in your religious convictions?

I'm not sure that "they" say people have to have the same religion in order to form a partnership, but it's about 0 percent likely that I'll ever hook up with someone whose religious and spiritual ideas are completely at odds with mine. I can deal with a certain amount of disagreement on that front, and a certain amount of political disagreement, and not much more.

Maybe my views on this are somewhat shaped by watching many of my family members in the southern U.S. get increasingly Bible-thumpy over the years as they age. It would suck to partner up with someone who was only sort of religious and see them get holier as time passed, since I'm never going to go that direction.

Just thinkin'.

Maybe your views on this are more to do with you being a rational human being than being shaped by watching others. I can see what you're saying though, if I was with someone who kept telling me I'd forever burn in hell for not going to church I'd have to give them their walking papers but if I loved them I'd try to reason with them before I did that. As I said religious views aren't set in stone.

[twizzlestix]

what type r you??

iee

[Words]

Well, regarding the last paragraph, you changed your religious views at a young age in response to your boyfriend's differing values. What if you had dug in your heels and refused to change your ideas? What if you had gone further and continually and rigidly foisted your religion on him? What if you'd both been older when you met and quite set in your religious convictions?

I'm not sure that "they" say people have to have the same religion in order to form a partnership, but it's about 0 percent likely that I'll ever hook up with someone whose religious and spiritual ideas are completely at odds with mine. I can deal with a certain amount of disagreement on that front, and a certain amount of political disagreement, and not much more.

Maybe my views on this are somewhat shaped by watching many of my family members in the southern U.S. get increasingly Bible-thumpy over the years as they age. It would suck to partner up with someone who was only sort of religious and see them get holier as time passed, since I'm never going to go that direction.

Just thinkin'.

Yeah those deep fried Southern bible bashers are pretty bizarre.

[silke]

This "soothing psychological effect" I've noticed tends to give me more energy, which at least in case of being an IEI I can appreciate because I'm generally so low on energy that any little bit goes a long way with me. Back at the town where I used to live we had an SLE radio host and I'd listen to his shows almost every day in the morning when I used to drive to work. He was kind of coarse and sometimes I questioned why I would be listening to his show at all. Then one day he left, I couldn't listen to the show any more, and I actually started feeling less energetic at work in the mornings. So I think it also gives you more energy to do things - if you have more energy to do things you will achieve greater self-realization in the end.

Study: ? ?????????? ????????? ? ??????????? ????? 45 % of couples are duals, 71% when you only analyze intra-quadra relationships. Matches my real-life observations - somewhat shockingly, even most "young" couples seem to be either duals or, in certain peculiar cases, activity.

From my observations duality relations are very rare. I've seen marriage types threads on other typology forums. The most prevalent marriage types seemed to have been activity and benefit. Duality was pretty rare, even supervision had more counts.

[redbaron]

From my observations duality relations are very rare. I've seen marriage types threads on other typology forums. The most prevalent marriage types seemed to have been activity and benefit. Duality was pretty rare, even supervision had more counts.

well I dunno about "very" rare. We had a thread all about this awhile back. Let's see... of the couples I know, most of which have been married for at least 15 years (I'm older, y'know, lol), here is the breakdown:

IEI-SLE--duality
ESI-SLE--supervision
IEI-ESE--supervision
ESE-IEE--benefit
SEI-EII--benefit
SEI-ILE--duality
EII-ILE--supervision
ESI-SLE--supervision
SLE-LSI--mirror
IEI--LSI--activity
EII-LSI--superego
IEE-LII--supervisor
SLI-IEE--duality
EIE-LSI--duality

so I dunno. I guess there are a lot of supervisory but I also know a fair number of duals. Not all of these are happy marriages either. Some of them are pretty unhappy but staying together anyway.

[Slacker]

I think being married to a dual makes our marriage EASIER. That could translate into better depending on other factors, but it wouldn't necessarily.

The fact that our marriage is so easy and we really don't fight it what made me look into Socionics in the first place. I was trying to figure out why my marriage was different from a group of friends who were talking about a self help book and how they were working on their marriages and figuring out their husbands' love languages. I don't have to do that kind of thing, but it seems like most people do, and I wondered why.

Now, we also agree on the big issues brought up earlier in the thread, so easy marriage + agreement on big issues = very very easy and happy marraige. If he had refused to have children? I would have had a hard hard time with that. Having children was very important to me. If he had non Socionics personality issues, like extreme arrogance, or violence, or a million other things? No way would I stay with him.

I know lots of couples who seem very happily married who are not duals. They don't have the ease of my marriage, but putting in a bit of work is worth it for them and they are very happy with the results of that work. So you can have a happy marriage that isn't so easy, and I wouldn't assume all easy marriages are going to be happier. I mean if my husband had violent tendancies, I'd understand him really well but I'd still get beat up. If he refused to have kids, we'd have an easy time about everything except how much I wanted kids and I'd be very sad about that. If we had different religious views and kids, we'd have a hard time figuring out how to raise our kids as far as religion goes.

So duality is generally easier, easier can be better, easier isn't necessarily better. That's my take on it anyway.

[redbaron]

I think being married to a dual makes our marriage EASIER. That could translate into better depending on other factors, but it wouldn't necessarily.

The fact that our marriage is so easy and we really don't fight it what made me look into Socionics in the first place. I was trying to figure out why my marriage was different from a group of friends who were talking about a self help book and how they were working on their marriages and figuring out their husbands' love languages. I don't have to do that kind of thing, but it seems like most people do, and I wondered why.

Now, we also agree on the big issues brought up earlier in the thread, so easy marriage + agreement on big issues = very very easy and happy marraige. If he had refused to have children? I would have had a hard hard time with that. Having children was very important to me. If he had non Socionics personality issues, like extreme arrogance, or violence, or a million other things? No way would I stay with him.

I know lots of couples who seem very happily married who are not duals. They don't have the ease of my marriage, but putting in a bit of work is worth it for them and they are very happy with the results of that work. So you can have a happy marriage that isn't so easy, and I wouldn't assume all easy marriages are going to be happier. I mean if my husband had violent tendancies, I'd understand him really well but I'd still get beat up. If he refused to have kids, we'd have an easy time about everything except how much I wanted kids and I'd be very sad about that. If we had different religious views and kids, we'd have a hard time figuring out how to raise our kids as far as religion goes.

So duality is generally easier, easier can be better, easier isn't necessarily better. That's my take on it anyway.

+1 perfect.

[redbaron]

well I dunno about "very" rare. We had a thread all about this awhile back. Let's see... of the couples I know, most of which have been married for at least 15 years (I'm older, y'know, lol), here is the breakdown:

IEI-SLE--duality
ESI-SLE--supervision
IEI-ESE--supervision
ESE-IEE--benefit
SEI-EII--benefit
SEI-ILE--duality
EII-ILE--supervision
ESI-SLE--supervision
SLE-LSI--mirror
IEI--LSI--activity
EII-LSI--superego
IEE-LII--supervisor
SLI-IEE--duality
EIE-LSI--duality

so I dunno. I guess there are a lot of supervisory but I also know a fair number of duals. Not all of these are happy marriages either. Some of them are pretty unhappy but staying together anyway.

It was brought to my attention that this was easy to misinterpret. I didn't mean that the DUAL marriages I know are unhappy, only that the other ones listed are unhappy, most notably the supervisory. The dual marriages I know are overwhelmingly happy. They have their slight bickering and occasional bumps in the road but overall, happy. Sorry for any confusion!

[tiny_dancer]

I don't know any bad dual marriages either. They all seem really comfortable with each other, and I never hear them perpetually griping about each other like everybody else seems to do.