Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Se

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Creepy-z987654321

    Default Se

    ...

  2. #2
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    "The knowing from social interaction, with an individual or a group, what they are feeling or thinking from the observation of their behavior, speech patterns, body language, facial expressions, and vocal expressions." Actress, Karla Guy, Sociotyp SEE, Sunday, October 17, 2010 1:57pm
    Karla Guy - Home
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  3. #3
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,541
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I see Se has a good description at wikisocion.org - unlike other elements.

    Se is willpower, strength, will, also the apprehension of qualia - objects.

    Saying that for example an analysis of something can be done with Se is in my view incorrect because it requires some T element to function - this is why Se is always paired with Ti in the Beta Quadra. I disagree that an idea or a concept is something discussed using Se. Se is a drive, it can provide a lot of energy to the discussion itself but a mental element is necessary whenever dealing with mental objects - this is pure logic.

    So in my view Se has to do with the 5 sense-perceptions. Although it could be argued that for example in Buddhism , Thinking is considered to be one of the senses - so you count 6 senses in Buddhism which is a very complex system and proves to be very coherent. So in a Buddhist sense you could affirm that Sensing can be used to evaluate mental objects - but even then, it would have to be Si, because mental objects are internal not external. Just my 2 cents here.

  4. #4
    C-ESI-Se 6w7 sx/sp ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    the center of the universe
    Posts
    15,798
    Mentioned
    909 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    ananke, i like it when you talk about Se.

  5. #5
    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,072
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    Let's see... If you want to look at Se, look at how SEEs and SLEs talk. What are their similarities? I'd say stark reality, but not only in the form of physical objects. It can be anything from death, to friendship, to emotional reaction, to religion, to .... you name it. And they all form different conclusions based on who they are (not how they think). It is the starkness of their impressions that is common. This starkness comes from an almost physical impact that what they experience have on them. All because of isolating concepts and happenings and what not in static images. Frozen pictures of reality that then can be analyzed, as you said, through Fi or Ti.
    Yeah. Even with religion, SXEs are very absolute (SLEs even more so, having two objective/external functions in their ego), and focused on reality. If an SLE is an atheist, he or she is an atheist because he or she believes that it is a part of reality that God does not exist (which is sort of a tortured statement, but you get the idea). Similarly, for a moral code, the SLE will not emphasize this abstract should out there somewhere, but simply that it is a part of reality that you should not kill people. It's this focus on realism, on treating things as discrete, real objects even when they are abstract concepts, that produces the decisiveness of SXEs. Contrast this with Ni, which insists upon treating anything and everything relative to have it connects to other things, its associations, moving it forward and backward along sliders, i.e., from table to lumber to tree, or from table to desk to chair to footstool (that scale was based on size, roughly), thinking about the zillions of associations an object could have, and shifting the ones that are emphasized at any given moment (this is the Ni perspective shift or gestalt shift). This of course, also happens unconsciously (although you can tease some of it into consciousness if you work hard enough). So yeah.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

  6. #6
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,541
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silverchris9 View Post
    Yeah. Even with religion, SXEs are very absolute (SLEs even more so, having two objective/external functions in their ego), and focused on reality. If an SLE is an atheist, he or she is an atheist because he or she believes that it is a part of reality that God does not exist (which is sort of a tortured statement, but you get the idea). Similarly, for a moral code, the SLE will not emphasize this abstract should out there somewhere, but simply that it is a part of reality that you should not kill people. It's this focus on realism, on treating things as discrete, real objects even when they are abstract concepts, that produces the decisiveness of SXEs. Contrast this with Ni, which insists upon treating anything and everything relative to have it connects to other things, its associations, moving it forward and backward along sliders, i.e., from table to lumber to tree, or from table to desk to chair to footstool (that scale was based on size, roughly), thinking about the zillions of associations an object could have, and shifting the ones that are emphasized at any given moment (this is the Ni perspective shift or gestalt shift). This of course, also happens unconsciously (although you can tease some of it into consciousness if you work hard enough). So yeah.
    I think the bold part is very interesting because it describes much of how people with Se in their ego-block treat reality or life. Itīs an emphasis on concrete as opposed to abstract, on static as opposed to fluid, in short they see the rock where the Si person is going to see the river flowing through the rocks, to make a somewhat imprecise analogy.

  7. #7
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    25,960
    Mentioned
    669 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    From an SLE friend. "I was near the fields and saw the winds sweeping across the planes. The ground crunching under my feet. I felt a hand press me hard, down into the field and the love transmitted to me by the hand that was pressing me down. I felt the love by that hand pressing me down into the earth. You go through the tunnel and you are a changed person by the experience you go through; you are a different person, you never leave that field, you always remember that field and you can always revisit that field. "

    This speaks exactly what None is saying about their observations being outside and observable and yet also confirms what Ananke says that they capture the dynamics of the moment in like a movie. My SLE friend observes me and studies the quality of me all the time and makes conclusions about at what things I respond in such ways with and ties or makes pattern Ti connections with things like he says I am emotional or I am strong but delicate, etc. (sorry, I don't remember these details very well, but I'll try to record them and write them down for next time).

    Quote Originally Posted by None View Post
    And it works.
    Te

    Yes, it was a great exchange of info between you and Ananke. I really enjoyed it.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-19-2010 at 04:15 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  8. #8
    Airman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,541
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ananke View Post
    Se isolates happenings in images. Se-egos quickly recognize anything familiar. Something someone says. The way someone is standing. The way people use their voice. The way things are arranged in the same way. Or a different way.
    I agree with you here. But notice that most of these familiar things you say are OUTSIDE and OBSERVABLE, i.e., they are apprehended through one of the 5 senses. Letīs say for example a smell. Someone with strong Se smells a fragrance and no one except him is able to remember what flower or perfume or food is causing that fragrance - or heīs the first to quickly remember it. Itīs then Se being used primarily, but supported by some Thinking element - Ti or Te - which makes this person be able to recognize the smell and verbalize the name of it.

    This makes Se-egos very good at reading situations and people, and yes, it happens fast, as a pattern recognizer, so it's not very conscious. A million impulses every second. When you have control of your surroundings like that, it is easy to be confident and move on. That's where the willpower and confidence parts of SXE descriptions come from. It's about their understanding of the here and now.
    I agree with you again and itīs an interesting view that their confidence comes from their ability to recognize in the here and now. But I think it also comes from their ability of sheer strength, ability to MOBILIZE OBJECTS in the here and now. I have a very close ESFP friend who, when a little drunk, is going to move objects around himself very fast, even people, like for example grabbing some friend to joke and slightly pushing the friend, or grabbing someoneīs arm and carrying the person by force to wherever he feels they should go to. A kind of 'primitivism', or raw use of physical force, makes them able to move objects and people easily and so it reinforces their confidence: I have control of my environment, in the most literal and physical sense. I can push someone away easily and quickly, punch someone to defend myself with dextery, etc.


    I agree. Se doesn't analyze in a step-by-step fashion, that's not what I meant.

    Let's see... If you want to look at Se, look at how SEEs and SLEs talk. What are their similarities? I'd say stark reality, but not only in the form of physical objects. It can be anything from death, to friendship, to emotional reaction, to religion, to .... you name it. And they all form different conclusions based on who they are (not how they think). It is the starkness of their impressions that is common. This starkness comes from an almost physical impact that what they experience have on them. All because of isolating concepts and happenings and what not in static images. Frozen pictures of reality that then can be analyzed, as you said, through Fi or Ti.
    I know what you say because lately Iīve been in a very stressful situation in a rehab clinic for alcohol that I ended up getting so pissed off and then 'resorting' - unconsciously - to my demonstrative Se and climbing a 3m wall and jumping to the other side of it, on the street, running like a rabbit to escape. I see that the way I looked at how I would climb it and how I did it was so fast and secure that I had no problem at all doing it. So I can agree that Se takes shots while Si is more of a movie - which is many single small pictures put together. Se observes things in general even a situation as one single happening. It freezes them. In this way it can better grasp and control it - because you cannot control pictures in a movie, theyīre moving too fast, so you have to adapt and go with the flow like Si egos do, but you can control a single snapshot and evaluate it using some T element once you've captured it. This is the basic principle I see. And it works.


    I think all functions are "mental" processes. We all have 5 senses, a vast unconscious, feelings and the ability to be rational, unless something is wrong with us. But yeah, in a way Se relies on the 5 senses to find patterns.

    An SLE kid said to me that "I have a film inside my head that I watch". That is pretty much a Se way of describing the unconscious, I think.
    Seems so to me too.


    Si is a pattern finder of fields. Fields are subjective observations of objects (bodies). Where Se looks at happenings as isolated images, Si looks at how images flow. Se creates "frozen moments", Si creates "fluidity" between moments.

    I have almost exclusively Se-egos in my immediate family, so it is easy for me to observe Se in action.

    I also try to make descriptions that don't include motivation, since motivation will depend on circumstances, cultural context, health levels, intellect, etc.
    Nice. Itīs good to talk to you.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •