ISFps and Military
My sister, an ISFp, was in the military, and I've heard about other ISFps being in the military. However, as I explained in the INTj and Military thread, military service represents everything that I am not.
Any comments? Perhaps from the other ISFps? The ISFp description mentions that ISFps dislike having a "boss" and do better when self-employed.
My father was ISFp (everything fits really, relationships and all) and he was a private for 1 year.
He saw it as a good experience and said things like "it teaches you that, in life, you often have to follow orders and do things that you yourself don't understand and don't agree with". He said that approvingly. He was rather easygoing at home and at work - nothing like an ISTj for instance - but he did think that a boss is the boss and there will always be a boss.
I thought this had to to withas 7th function *shrugs*.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
It has to do with Se. But a lot of the time Si types don't believe in it. I think for Si types, any of that type of behavior has to be stressed/learned before they follow it. I know for me, my parents keep on telling me that I'm not good at following orders and that I should learn more obedience or something like that.
Edited for gayness.
ENTp
"it teaches you that, in life, you often have to follow orders and do things that you yourself don't understand and don't agree with"That's one of the saddest things I have ever heard. I hope I never get that broken.
I generally say "okay" to requests, but I still do what I want. If I say I'll do it, I will unless something prevents me from doing it. I often do what people want me to do, but only if I really don't mind."Yes sir, right away sir..."
I'm more neurotic about the QUALITY of the work. Sometimes tasks take too long because of this. As for being walked all over... if someone truly doesn't mind doing something, then how are they getting stepped on? Who cares how others see it. I've done a lot of work that my co workers were supposed to do just because I felt like it, and I don't turn down people's requests for help unless I have to. In return, they help me quite a bit, too, but generally only when they know I really need help. In fact I would prolly stop someone from doing my job if there was any practical way that I could do it.ISFp's are pretty underconfident in the area of work and production, as deep down, they are neurotic about getting the job done. Sometimes people just walk all over them, and they don't even seem to take offense to this.
So I guess from another person's perspective, I am quite accommidating. At the end of the day though, if there's something that I don't feel I should do, I don't do it, regardless of what the manager wants. I decided what I will and will not do. This has caused conflict with former managers, who are most upset in the situation when they realize that I'm right and/or I go over their head to deal with the matter. This is not really all that frequent though.
Edited for gayness.
ENTp
So there has never existed a strong or stubborn or bold ISFp?
Edited for gayness.
ENTp
lol
then why couldn't I be ISFp?
Edited for gayness.
ENTp
eh, it doesn't matter what type I am. I am Joy.
It true for me about pleasing my bosses. But I would really hate to go to the military. I rather be killed by the enemy or whoever than to kill someone else.
ISFP, SEI
Here are several examples of famous Russian generals who were ISFp, acording to theur biographical data:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Bagramian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kliment_Voroshilov
According to my experience, ISFp very easily find themselves in the military service, but rather in administrative work, military training and/or second roles than in action.
www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.
That would be because all bosses are ESTj, right? :wink:
In Russia, bosses are more frequently ESTp and/or ISTj than ESTj. Most socionists believe that Russia is a country of the 2nd Quadra. One more peculiarity: in my opinion, sensing types are much more valued in our country than intuitives because we have a lot of intuitives and lack sensors.
www.socioniko.net is no longer my site.
I wasn't being serious, it was a reference to Transigent's stereotype thread. But I wonder if intertype relations might play a role more than the ISFp's own type.
@Dmitri: interesting.
What would you consider the most common type in Russia? ENTP?
My ISFP mother had an ENTJ boss once. She refused a promotion just to stay away from him.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
\\\
Bagramian was ISTJ, Voroshilov was the evil ISFP hand behind Stalin that I had been looking for. Thanks Lytov.
.\\\\Voroshilov commanded Soviet troops during the Winter War from November 1939 to January 1940, but due to his incompetence the Red Army suffered tremendous casualties. Nikita Khrushchev had an especially low opinion of him; he once described Voroshilov as the "biggest bag of shit in the army".
After the German invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, Voroshilov was made commander of the northwest armies, but despite considerable personal bravery - at one point he personally led a counter-attack against German tanks armed only with a pistol - he failed to prevent the Germans from surrounding Leningrad and was dismissed from that office. As an old crony of Stalin's, however, he survived the disgrace that befell most defeated commanders in the early part of the war..
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
"it teaches you that, in life, you often have to follow orders and do things that you yourself don't understand and don't agree with"
no. >:[
bullshitttt
indeed
Actually, most ISTjs I know that are in the military, stay in there just for the money/secure job/etc., not because they like to follow orders. They follow them because otherwise they would lose the job.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
lol what a bunch of sell outs
everyone is a sell out
LII
that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.
not everyone.
I suppose one could consider any act which is not exactly what one wants to do for the purpose of getting something else to be selling out. Sorry, I guess ISTjs just make so little sense to me that it's hard not to criticize them.
We all live on a continuum. At one side is freedom, and the other is security. I live about as close to the "freedom" end as is healthy, and ISTjs live about as close the the "security" end as is healthy.
Which makes you wonder, as living under (threat of) gunfire is neither secure nor healthy
it's okay though because they're doing what they are told
Why do you think it's unhealty?
Providing a stable enviroment for your family is unhealthy?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Is your father nel esercito FDG?Why do you think it's unhealty?
Providing a stable enviroment for your family is unhealthy?
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
YepIs your father nel esercito FDG?Why do you think it's unhealty?
Providing a stable enviroment for your family is unhealthy?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Re: ISFp and Military
.
GRRRRRRRR I SAID IT IS HEALTHYWhy do you think it's unhealty?
Providing a stable enviroment for your family is unhealthy?
It was me who said it wasn't healthy. Sadly, I can name a number of examples, which prove it, some of them in my family and/or circle of friends.
Kids, accute lead poisoning is nothing to sneer at.
I'm sure there are A LOT of unhealthy conformist followers, just like there are a lot of healthy conformist followers. There are healthy and unhealthy people of every type.
You haven't been to a war recently, I presume. Lucky you.
true. people get pissed when I say that it's unheathly to blindly kill or die because you're supposed to, so I was avoiding that subject.
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