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    Default Being fought for & pursued (delta NFs)

    A lot of delta NFs seem to happen into relationships because someone 'wants' them.

    And as we know, sometimes Delta NFs don't make the best relational choices in terms of ending up with people who are actually good for them.

    I'd like NFs to comment on the nature of being pursued by someone, and feeling wanted, and how that impacts your feelings about relationships, especially personal ones.



    Everybody enjoys being pursued somewhat, I know. But delta NFs have this interesting mixture of not wanting to be too strong, but, still being very influenced by 'how much someone wants them'.
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
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    I dont think Im that affected by being pursued. I prefer the pursuing instead. I guess thats an extrovert male thing. With that said I dont mind the attention or when I can see someone likes me. There were even times when the fact someone liked me was enough for me to start the relationship, well it didn't last long. All in all, feeling pursued is a turn-off for me, feeling wanted is something that brings positive emotions and could influence my own feelings, however that alone I dont think is enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    I dont think Im that affected by being pursued. I prefer the pursuing instead. I guess thats an extrovert male thing. With that said I dont mind the attention or when I can see someone likes me. There were even times when the fact someone liked me was enough for me to start the relationship, well it didn't last long. All in all, feeling pursued is a turn-off for me, feeling wanted is something that brings positive emotions and could influence my own feelings, however that alone I dont think is enough.
    Same here. Despite me being quiet and unobtrusive I find myself more comfortable in approaching others for the sake of relationships. I guess I don't mind being "pursued" though (even though it sounds like a stalker term) so long as I know I like the person doing the pursuing. It's all highly dependent on who the other person is and how I feel about him.

    It seems like something much more dependent on extrovert/introvert and not necessarily Ne + Fi.

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    Yeah, but, you two are also guys....

    Especially lobo and all some other male NFs, any sort of 'femininity' talk or being un-manly tends to freak you guys out, so I wouldn't expect you to say much. (that's a slight joke)

    I suppose the post is more tailored to women. (?)
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    you can go to where your heart is Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Especially lobo and all some other male NFs, any sort of 'femininity' talk or being un-manly tends to freak you guys out, so I wouldn't expect you to say much. (that's a slight joke)
    Well hey, you asked for Delta NF thoughts and you got them . Honestly though, a lot of it depends on who's doing the pursuing, because if it's someone I don't particularly like I'm not going to go with it.

    The gay part may play an extra role, because I mean what homosexual male wouldn't want to be swept off his feet by an active masculine figure?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    A lot of delta NFs seem to happen into relationships because someone 'wants' them....Everybody enjoys being pursued somewhat, I know.
    I suppose the post is more tailored to women. (?)
    Women expect to be persued. It's awkward for the female to persue. Everyone wants to be wanted.

    Males, extroverts, feelers, and sensors should have an easier time doing the persuing. Thus female Delta NFs are some of the least likely to be the pursuer.

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    Yeah, I strongly relate to what you're talking about in the OP. Friends have commented that I tend to "go along" with guys who fall for me. I'm uncomfortable talking about it, though, partly because I don't fully understand it. I could say it relates to my father's absence in childhood and fearing rejection, or perhaps a sign of low self-esteem, but it's all speculation. Hmmm... or maybe it's not so neurotic after all. *I want you to want me. I need you to need me. I'd love you to love me. I'm begging you to beg me.*

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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    Yeah, I strongly relate to what you're talking about in the OP. Friends have commented that I tend to "go along" with guys who fall for me. I'm uncomfortable talking about it, though, partly because I don't fully understand it. I could say it relates to my father's absence in childhood and fearing rejection, or perhaps a sign of low self-esteem, but it's all speculation. Hmmm... or maybe it's not so neurotic after all. *I want you to want me. I need you to need me. I'd love you to love me. I'm begging you to beg me.*
    I've seen this in IEEs and EIIs.

    Espcially neeed you to need me . . .
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
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    Yeah interestingly I tend to develop feelings faster for someone if i've gotten some signs from them that they might be attracted to me. They could even be subtle signs that i'm not 100% sure about. In fact if the signs are strong enough that i'm 100% sure and more, that means they're coming on way too strong, and at that point I'm thinking they just want to use me. So, that scares me off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    A lot of delta NFs seem to happen into relationships because someone 'wants' them.

    And as we know, sometimes Delta NFs don't make the best relational choices in terms of ending up with people who are actually good for them.

    I'd like NFs to comment on the nature of being pursued by someone, and feeling wanted, and how that impacts your feelings about relationships, especially personal ones.



    Everybody enjoys being pursued somewhat, I know. But delta NFs have this interesting mixture of not wanting to be too strong, but, still being very influenced by 'how much someone wants them'.
    I'm not aware of this phenomenon.

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    I've done my share of pursuing and being pursued. (I wasn't always this fat.)

    When I was pursuing, the momentum was kept up by responses from the other person. Were they accepting of each step, and how far would they let me go. I want to be wanted (not needed). If they showed signs of not wanting me back, then no sense in continuing the pursuit.

    But I've also enjoyed being pursued, at least temporarily, usually for things like one night stands, or if I really like the person. The ISTp pilot I've mentioned a few times pursued me in just the right way, which is probably why I still have a crush on him. There was no doubt that he wanted me...when he wanted me, heh. But I wasn't very pulled together at that time.

    I pursued Richard, pretty much at the moment I set eyes on him. Of course, that I'd seen his profiles and posts on a forum I was also a member of, helped, even if his profile didn't interest me at the time. But the familiar face in unfamiliar territory (a meeting of said forum type people) provided me with the compulsion to rush over and say hi.

    After that, we pm'd each other, then chatted, then I finally got him to call (he hated phones with a passion), got him to my bday party, and from there the pursuit was intensified. I knew I wanted him in my life. He was quite responsive. We were compatible in many ways. And within 3 months he was living with me. We've been together for over 6 1/2 years now.

    As an extrovert, I think we are likely to initiate contact, more so than introverts.

    As an Ne base, we are more likely to consider the idea or possibilities of a new relationship, different ways it can go, etc. Experience will either confirm or bring up new possibilities to consider.

    As NeFi, we are quite curious about the inner workings of a person. If the person 'puts out' a lot of information, quickly, the curiosity is satisfied too fast, and something else catches our attention. Or, the info is of such that builds on itself as time goes on, maintaining our curiosity and potential. If it takes time before personal information is given to us, and in only bits at a time, the curiosity usually remains (if the info is interesting enough), and then attachment begins to set in.

    So no, I don't see the OP as applying to "delta nfs". Maybe to delta extroverts, but even then i'd doubt that too, as some istps will pursue (at least for a one night stand).

    Of course, it could have nothing to do with socionics, as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I'm not aware of this phenomenon.
    me either.

    i've historically preferred situations where i knew the guy was interested but i was the more influential one in moving things forward. i don't want to feel like i'm being swept along and am not an active agent in it. it's like if i'm being pursued i have to question whether its something i want or not. but if i am the one moving things forward then there is no question.

    i'm a female introvert... but out of all the responses here, i relate to galen and ssmall the most. hmm.

    i do also relate to anon about developing feelings faster for someone if there are signs that they might be attracted to me. but that's not really the same as them "pursuing" me. eh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i've historically preferred situations where i knew the guy was interested but i was the more influential one in moving things forward.
    Works for me.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    Oddly enough, my most recent conversation with a close ILE friend was about whether girls in general expect guys to be the ones who move things forward, and if a guy is usually considered weak, stuck-up, or incompetent if he doesn't take the initiative and lead the way.

    I personally feel at relief in a supportive tag-along position. Which does not imply passivity or any sort of blind compliance on my part, but a more easygoing and "contributing" - rather than leading or controlling - attitude towards the progress of the relationship.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    me either.

    i've historically preferred situations where i knew the guy was interested but i was the more influential one in moving things forward. i don't want to feel like i'm being swept along and am not an active agent in it. it's like if i'm being pursued i have to question whether its something i want or not. but if i am the one moving things forward then there is no question.

    i'm a female introvert... but out of all the responses here, i relate to galen and ssmall the most. hmm.

    i do also relate to anon about developing feelings faster for someone if there are signs that they might be attracted to me. but that's not really the same as them "pursuing" me. eh.
    Are you sure you're not IEE laghlagh?? I'm serious...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Are you sure you're not IEE laghlagh?? I'm serious...
    responded here, hope you don't mind.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post698651

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    responded here, hope you don't mind.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post698651
    I'm just saying, one of the key differences about IEE vs EII the way I see it, is taking initiative. You expressed taking a certain amount of initiative in establishing non-platonic relationships that I dont think an EII would do: "I was the more influential one in moving things forward." Maybe i'm wrong about EIIs that way?

    You approach such things in exactly the same way I do, actually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    A lot of delta NFs seem to happen into relationships because someone 'wants' them.
    The personal relationships that I have established in the past were with men that I found compatibility with. There were periods of time were I saw myself with this person, that I thought we had good communication and understood each other well enough to build a good foundation and set mutual goals and be able to support ourselves and a healthy life style, spending our lives together, as friends and lovers. My X -SLI BF and I was very driven and ambitious and he built a business all by himself. When I first met him, he was confused and disoriented about his opportunities and needed some potential insights into situations where he could use these options to pursue something worthwhile. I augmented and supplemented the of course by offering interesting options, ideas and seeing how these things would develop. So we were together, we wanted to be in a relationship and neither one of us needed each other for any sort of reason, be it emotional loneliness or financial, even though I do not consider financial dependence as a need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    And as we know, sometimes Delta NFs don't make the best relational choices in terms of ending up with people who are actually good for them.
    This is not true in my case. My relationships were good for me. However, the relationships did not fully come together, because they were not a complete, a whole, like duality is. None of my past relationship were with duals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    I'd like NFs to comment on the nature of being pursued by someone, and feeling wanted, and how that impacts your feelings about relationships, especially personal ones.
    I am terrified of being "pursued"; I don't like the feeling of being acquired, like, being striven to be possessed. I don't like it when someone calls me constantly, when someone shows up at my door without my invitation....It's so scary. I very much like a relationship that starts slow, with conversation, and getting to know the person over a period of months before we have or establish a relationship. That way, I can gauge the intellectual level of the person and see if they can develop an interest in the things that I am interested in, not all things, but some, to share my life with them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Everybody enjoys being pursued somewhat, I know. But delta NFs have this interesting mixture of not wanting to be too strong, but, still being very influenced by 'how much someone wants them'.
    I absolutely do not like being pursued. I love gentle courting. Show interest in me by taking me to coffee, having long conversations with me; try not to touch me and scare me for a while. I love to hold hands, for that very same feeling of protection/protected.
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    i'll tear down the sky Mattie's Avatar
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    I think you're finding a correlation in something else. This might just be me, but I've noticed that whenever you post questions about NeFi and FiNe, you always are talking about women, and I find that you saturate a lot of stereotypical feminine traits into how you talk about them. And it's not just you, I think a lot of people assume all Fx types are more likely feminine (curiously enough, the forum sees the Beta Fx types as primarily male, and Beta [I think Gamma as well, sometimes] a more male quadra, but I don't think there's a feminized quadra) and therefore take some traits not related to Socionics but related to gender and gender roles and apply masculine ones Tx types (the Tx-leads tend to be the 'butch'/'lesbian' types [particularly TeNi] for women) and feminine ones to the Fx type (the Fx-creatives are seen as the 'gay' types [particularly NiFe and NeFi] for men). When it comes to the discussions in the Delta forum, I usually see a reinforcement of traditional gender roles rather than type when it comes to relationship talk.

    Now, while not all men do the chasing and not all women are the chased, this is the societal expectation and is the default when it comes to heterosexual relationships (which is all that is really mentioned here as well). Men generally feel pressured to do the chasing and women aren't bewildered when they are chased. This is because men are seen as the more active, initiating force overall in society, while women are more passive and the choosers. From my experience, no matter what the type of the male is, the more I withhold and have my attention diverted elsewhere, the more interested and determined the man pursing me is. The moment I go on a date or meet up or whatever, even if it's very successful, the effort plummets. Every single time, even with those I steadily dated. So, all of that being said, I don't think the OP is really getting at anything type related, or at least, SOLELY type related. Some intersectionality has to be looked at.

    I also don't know what you mean by this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    And as we know, sometimes Delta NFs don't make the best relational choices in terms of ending up with people who are actually good for them.
    How is that NeFi and FiNe specific at all? Something like this isn't type related, it's a maturity thing, as well as being subjective with who you think is 'good' or 'bad' for another person.

    As for me, I don't find myself in relationships just because people like me. If there's a doubt in my mind about how I think the compatibility is, I won't give in to someone just being interested. For the times I stuck it out with someone who wasn't the best, it was because I perceived the steps that would solve the relationship issues, but for some reason we were never able to go down that path. As to being chased or the chaser, I wish there was no designated role like that, because that seems like a game to me. That someone has to do the initiating while the other does the withholding. In this respect, I do like being the chased when I have half of the control of things going on; but this isn't usually the case. In my experiences, when you're the chased, you don't really choose when the chasing stops, or when the chasing happens, it just comes and goes whenever it wants. To me, that's frustrating, especially when people just drop out without warning; I enjoy the attention and someone actively trying to get me out, but I find that these motives are shallow as to just obtain my time, and not really the actual interest they have in me. Once they have my time, or whatever they want, they can choose to stop chasing. So I would say I tend to be a more balanced 'chaser,' I like initiating things and making things happen, but I also want the person to be as responsive and excited as I am. I think overall, people want there to be this balance, because the more you force yourself into the role of chaser and chased, it's a game and not genuinely liking the other person, just seeing them as an object to be obtained by using a particular strategy.

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    My reaction as I read the thread this morning:




    *sigh*
    Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
    If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    As to being chased or the chaser, I wish there was no designated role like that, because that seems like a game to me. That someone has to do the initiating while the other does the withholding.
    to all of your post, but mostly this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    My reaction as I read the thread this morning:




    *sigh*
    why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
    I think you're finding a correlation in something else. This might just be me, but I've noticed that whenever you post questions about NeFi and FiNe, you always are talking about women, and I find that you saturate a lot of stereotypical feminine traits into how you talk about them.
    Yes. It's because he's not LSE but rather LII, and is attempting to decipher the social contract using Ti.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    Yeah, all of that. Part of why I think the romantic attitude things are blown out of proportion, considering that males of any type tend to adopt something like the "Caretaker/Aggressor" role and females tend to have the "Victim/Infantile" role.
    I definitely think that gender roles, social dynamics, and culture circumscribe the romantic-attitudes stuff. Another complication is that over the short term these dynamics may be less obvious, only to appear over the long term. Both within a relationship and at the individual level.

    Having gradually unleashed my "inner victim" entirely, and having often experienced the difference between a partner playing out his predefined gender role vs. exploring some strong personal preferences ... I'd say "romantic attitude" may be pretty important.

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    if we're talking about the romance styles, infantiles aren't described as being receptive to being "fought for and pursued," as far as i know.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikisocion
    Typical characteristics of the Infantile romance style
    interest is sparked in partner with positive aesthetic attributes divorced from active, "aggressive" sexuality
    tend to try to attract partner's interest with joking, goofy or even "strange" behavior
    try to help partner see the unexpected and fun side of things
    interest is maintained or cools off according to partner's response to this behavior
    appreciation for partner who actively cares about the individual's comfort and daily needs
    neutral with regard to externally admitting who took the initiative in ending a relationship, "power" is seen as unimportant in such matters

    This romance style is defined by focus on which is static, irrational, and extroverted, with perceptions focused on possibilities and alternatives to the static present reality, which the individual perceives as intrinsically boring and stagnant. This means that an Infantile sees attraction between two individuals as a static state, also from the point of view of the other person, which he tries to "get moving" by actively thinking of variations of the present static state. This accounts for an Infantile's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as connected to that person's being exposed to the unexpected, imaginative, fun, even "weird" side of life, reality, and each other, a behavior that can be described as "childlike". This focus leads to a sort of helplessness regarding his own physical well being as perceived by , so he welcomes help from others in that area.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I'm NOT receptive to being "fought for and pursued" this is BS. This is so stupid.


    I'm a humanist by nature; that means, I prefer softer approach. I don't joke, goof or have "strange" behaviors, either. I'm soft and mellow.

    Wikisocion is so incorrect and WRONG on so many levels it makes me feel so terrible even reading such inaccuracies.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-26-2010 at 04:43 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Well, I relate to the OP's post. The more someone wants me, the less hard it is to get them to want me more, and therefore the more I'm interested in them.

    On the flip side, the more they want me, the harder it is for me to leave them. That was what happened in my last relationship. At first, she wanted me, and I wanted her, and I pursued her because she pursued me. But after a while I didn't want her at all, but she still really wanted me. I tried to deny my disinterest to please her. It was ugly.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Hmm. I haven't read most of the thread yet.

    I want to be pursued. Due to low self-confidence/fear of rejection, I try to make myself seem less interested than I really am. I watch the other person's actions to gauge their interest and react accordingly. This goes for all relationships in my life.

    I agree with wanting to be wanted, but I don't always fall for a guy just because he is interested. If I think a guy friend wants to move past "just friends" and the feeling is not mutual, I pull back hard and fast. I switch from warm and inviting to unnecessarily cold and avoidant, and the friendship suffers.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    Thank you, I feel flattered .

    I quess what you mean is that you have some problems pursuing girls in a typical, aggressive way. In my experience that's not what girls want - most of my girlfriends feel comfortable initiating contact, even much more than me. I personally feel very bad around man who are aggressive pursuers. A mix of caregiving, masculinity , shyness and normality is perfect.
    The way I show interest tends to be very subtle and indirect, but consistent and unambiguos at the same time. I am attentive and supportive without being in-your-face about it. In rare occasions I will verbalize how I feel in a clear-cut way, one or two sentences. If I get a "no/not interested" response, I won't ask again.

    No success so far.

    As for girls approaching me, I don't really remember that happening, like ever. But then, maybe I hold myself at a distance too much...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    Btw I saw your video when you were playing the guitar. I'm sure many girls would fall in love with you after listening to that!
    LOL, thanks for the compliment. But I never use my talents to seduce anyone. It would feel almost arrogant and dishonest, and I look down on guys who purposefully "show off" (with their talents/posessions/ego/etc) to seduce girls. Maybe it's the fear of coming across as such that prevents me from saying or showing things about myself to girls I barely know.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post


    LOL, thanks for the compliment. But I never use my talents to seduce anyone. It would feel almost arrogant and dishonest, and I look down on guys who purposefully "show off" (with their talents/posessions/ego/etc) to seduce girls. Maybe it's the fear of coming across as such that prevents me from saying or showing things about myself to girls I barely know.
    Hm, but you don't have to show off...That's not what I meant. But you don't hide it as well, do you?

    I also think that you are probably the type that wants to offer sth to girls, like help in everyday matters hence your disliking for "showing off". Of course showing off is superficial and it's quite easy to notice. But having talent and hobby and being good at sth isn't. It makes you interesting just the way you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    Hm, but you don't have to show off...That's not what I meant.
    I know. That's just how it feels to me. And how it may be perceived.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ver View Post
    But you don't hide it as well, do you?
    I do, actually. Not sure why, but my natural tendency is to attract as little attention to myself as possible. It's highly unlikely, for instance, that I would feel comfortable playing the guitar (or doing something similar) in front of someone I like but haven't gotten the chance to get to know them yet. I'd be feeling like I am "performing" for someone, being put on the spot, and I really don't like all that attention. And with things like playing music there's also the emotional involvement in what I'm doing which makes it even more difficult. Which is also why I've never been particularly fond of playing for a live audience.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    I do, actually. Not sure why, but my natural tendency is to attract as little attention to myself as possible. It's highly unlikely, for instance, that I would feel comfortable playing the guitar (or doing something similar) in front of someone I like but haven't gotten the chance to get to know them yet. I'd be feeling like I am "performing" for someone, being put on the spot, and I really don't like all that attention. And with things like playing music there's also the emotional involvement in what I'm doing which makes it even more difficult. Which is also why I've never been particularly fond of playing for a live audience.
    I think I get you. You mean it's sth you are aware of being good at and at the same time sth really important for you so that you don't want to show it to anybody who you are not close to. It's like the inner part of yourself... I think everybody has things like that so don't worry!
    I'm sure that when you meet the right girl things will be much easier. I've known a guy, he's ISFp and he used to have problems with girls. He would fall in love with the wrong ones, then he couldn't fall in love - he didn't like anybody. And he's quite attractive. I know a few girls had a crush on him and he had plenty of one-night stands as well! He was quite melancholic, just like you. And one day he met this girl at the party and she was already living with her boyfriend for two years. He told me he wanted nobody else but her. I thought he was playing victim again, I thought it had no future. In my opinion at the time he was behaving like a child - he wanted a toy that he couldn't get. But it hadn't been one moth since they first met when she moved out and they started being together. I was kind of shocked...It happened 5 years ago and now they are a really happy marriage with a small child .

    So, keep smiling, be yourself and trust your feelings . Good guys always find nice girls!

  32. #32
    Generator of Irony HandiAce's Avatar
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    I really like the idea of being liked and pursued. Being pursued is sometimes scary though, especially when it's a person you are not expecting to pursue.

    The thing is... Trying to actively pursue a person would mean I have to act unlike myself which I can barely sustain.

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