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    Default All or Nothing

    I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

    I'll take a simple example - studying.
    I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

    Type related?

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    When someone limits the amount of time you can spend on an activity, how does that make you feel?

    (God, I sound like the psychologist )
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Hmm...
    It depends on whether or not I want them to do so. Sometimes I need those boundaries to keep myself in check, and at other times they seem totally unnecessary.

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    Sounds like Ni seeking.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Have you tested Ni PoLR?

    Ni PoLR's don't feel time well.

    "I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras."


    Sounds like procrastination. Ni primary types can feel time well, that's why they are Ni primaries...

    Sounds like you may be LSE, ESE, SLE
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Sounds like Ni seeking.
    Maybe. I'll have to look that up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Have you tested Ni PoLR?

    Ni PoLR's don't feel time well.

    "I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras."


    Sounds like procrastination. Ni primary types can feel time well, that's why they are Ni primaries...

    Sounds like you may be LSE, ESE, SLE
    That would mean I'm Ej temperament though, which I really doubt... The only thing I've ever been absolutely sure of is irrationality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    sounds like weak +
    Which, according to my self typing, is supposed to comprise my ego-block.

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    sounds like weak +
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    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

    I'll take a simple example - studying.
    I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

    Type related?
    That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marie84 View Post
    sounds like weak +
    Or possibly devalued ?
    Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.

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    I kind of relate to what you describe - both inactivity and losing sleep, etc. - but not to its reasons. I think Ni egos can be exceptionally procrastinating, but in my case at least, it has nothing to do with not knowing how much is needed and everything with not wanting it to take more than necessary.

    I can see you as a Si-base, for whatever it's worth - Ip temperament and weak Ni make sense. What you say about your habits of note-taking and studying is also something I've noticed in SEI, though I don't really know any SLIs well enough to compare. Maybe people have a point about devalued Te. But I don't think it's enough of a reason on its own to retype, especially seeing as suggestions in this thread combined point towards SLE - a type for whom inaction, not to be confused with laziness, isn't really all this characteristic.

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    Sounds like your creative function. Not being sure how much is good enough, and over or under-doing it, despite the estimates which seemed fine at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.
    Maybe I'm your type Or maybe this applies to a whole spectrum of people, I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    That points out that you're a Static type (Ij or Ep) and probably Irrational, too.
    I'm pretty much the same, btw.
    Why static?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    I kind of relate to what you describe - both inactivity and losing sleep, etc. - but not to its reasons. I think Ni egos can be exceptionally procrastinating, but in my case at least, it has nothing to do with not knowing how much is needed and everything with not wanting it to take more than necessary.
    What are your reasons? I'm curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Man View Post
    Sounds like your creative function. Not being sure how much is good enough, and over or under-doing it, despite the estimates which seemed fine at the time.
    Hmm, I don't know. Something about this seems off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    The 'all or nothing' thing in general sounds like some typically human shit people of all types do; you might be surprised to find out how common it really is. I'd recommend this approach to you that helped me with that kind of behavior: Structured Procrastination

    As to your specific example, again I can't say as though that's type-related (on it's own). Personally I can't think of a time being paranoid on whether I've studied enough (I usually study as little as possible and decide to 'wing it' from there). I'd lean maybe towards devalued , if only because it often seems to me that valuers have a harder time prioritizing information and wanting the entire schematic of a topic before they can feel contently informed about it. Whereas more or less naturally operates on an acceptance that all knowledge and decisions will be necessarily based on incomplete information.
    Haha, I like that. Structured procrastination.
    I should try that sometime.

    To be honest, yeah, I do what you do. I usually end up putting off studying and improvising. It always works out well, but I feel like I can do better and fulfill some sort of standard I've set for myself.

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    I'm a total procrastinator. But I never worry about it.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    What are your reasons? I'm curious.
    It's not like it's the conscious decision, but a natural mode of operating. Do you start a dishwasher every day, or wait until it's full? I only move when there's a lot of stuff that needs to get done soon. Even if I sometimes regret this later. Otherwise I'd just be working and working and working all the time and feeling I'm getting little done. Stretching it over time is so much more exhausting and wasteful. (Although it seems to work for some people, notably Ijs. I swear some of them spend more time complaining that their workload is changing rapidly than I do working.)

    Plus if you get something done before you have to, it's very likely to turn out unnecessary after all. I'm sure there's a Murphy's law for that or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashton View Post
    I'd recommend this approach to you that helped me with that kind of behavior: Structured Procrastination
    Very cool resource.

    I also agree that this may not be extremely type-related. It might correlate more or less with various types, but I know I used to have more obvious all-or-nothing patterns when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now I realize that something is better than nothing, and that "all" is a way of exerting too much pressure and perfectionism on myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenwings View Post
    Very cool resource.

    I also agree that this may not be extremely type-related. It might correlate more or less with various types, but I know I used to have more obvious all-or-nothing patterns when I was in my teens and early 20s. Now I realize that something is better than nothing, and that "all" is a way of exerting too much pressure and perfectionism on myself.
    I love to see this...Ti activation
    If anyone ever says you might be EIE or IEE, go ahead and flash them this post...

    and ask them, how can EIE use Ti? BAHHHH
    and ask them, how can IEE use Ti? HAHAhA

    [quote=jxrtes;697420]That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-26-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Or possibly devalued ?
    Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.
    yep
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    That sounds exactly like me. Almost word for word.



    Or possibly devalued ?
    Gilly's suggestion maybe applicable as well.
    I think it's Ni ignoring. I saw the weak Ni, but had to sort of think about where it feel, and it makes sense that it would be an ignoring, especially if he is an Ne valuer, which clearly, he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I'm a total procrastinator. But I never worry about it.
    Why don't you worry about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    D
    Do you plan a lot?
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Why don't you worry about it?
    I guess because I have enough experience to know exactly how long something's going to take and do it at the very last minute. Take today for example. soccer pictures. You're supposed to send your kid to the photo line-up with his form filled out for what package you want. Well, we arrived with 3 minutes to spare, I grabbed the form, found a pen and filled out the form, handing it to him just as they were about to go into the gym. lol I do stuff like that all the time. Not exactly sure why.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I guess because I have enough experience to know exactly how long something's going to take and do it at the very last minute. Take today for example. soccer pictures. You're supposed to send your kid to the photo line-up with his form filled out for what package you want. Well, we arrived with 3 minutes to spare, I grabbed the form, found a pen and filled out the form, handing it to him just as they were about to go into the gym. lol I do stuff like that all the time. Not exactly sure why.
    That's having a very good feel for time... in the ego block is good at this, but not having a very good feel for it leads to not being aware of it's movement. So, you truly don't procrastinate because you're consciously aware of time; but, this type of procrastination, that he speaks of, is about not being aware of time and how long something will take. They leave things alone or put things off because of the lack of this awareness. You can also put things off, but having Ni in your ego block will not let things escape your conscious attention...so, you'll do them when they come due.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-26-2010 at 05:36 PM.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Maybe, but consciousness is not so straight line, its fractured, I would assume irrationals would be more aware of the tradeoffs in time they are making. Ni people tend to "hesitate" and may therefore fail to take any action at all, and Se is needed to push them into some action when neccesary. I think?

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    I think it's a symptom of our times. Information and entertainment are so widely available it's almost impossible to get around it. The temptation to take a break from work pervades everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    I've realized over the past couple weeks that one of my characteristics is not knowing how much work is enough. Sometimes, I paralyze myself into inactivity and passiveness, or find ways to be unproductive because I don't know how much time I should spend on a certain activity. At other times, I'll forgo sleep to do something I find interesting. All or nothing seems to be one of my mantras.

    I'll take a simple example - studying.
    I realized that I'm adverse to studying because I don't know how much studying qualifies as 'enough'. I'm a bad notetaker because I can't pick out the most important details and end up writing down too much. I like to read from the textbooks rather than from my own notes because I don't want to feel like I missed something.

    Type related?
    A rule of thumb that worked for me throughout high school and college on notetaking is: If the professor writes it on the board, copy it down in your notes. Otherwise, just listen. The stuff that s/he puts on the board is what they find important.

    At the end of the day, do a quick read-through of your notes if you have time, because quick 5 minute reviews of the important concepts keeps them fresh in your mind and you cut out huge study sessions where you're trying to cram everything. It also gives you a chance to check if you're clear on everything. And if not, you can check the text, or bring it up in class next time.

    I had many more hours of free time, and was far less stressed out that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    At the end of the day, do a quick read-through of your notes if you have time, because quick 5 minute reviews of the important concepts keeps them fresh in your mind and you cut out huge study sessions where you're trying to cram everything. It also gives you a chance to check if you're clear on everything. And if not, you can check the text, or bring it up in class next time.
    This is true.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    I'm gonna play a 'freud' card on you, only cause it reminds me of something.

    You have a discombobulated, undisciplined ego. (It's actually an issue that most of people on this forum have, including myself) Your ego is shaky and unconfident naturally, and you second-guess your own thoughts too much, and you feel too much at odds with your super-ego and id. The ego is what is necessary to become a functional, healthy adult as it's the balancing force between your super-ego and id, both of which are dark, self-destructive forces if left unchecked.

    How to fix your problem: I would meditate, learn to 'lighten up', and re-attune yourself to the big picture. In 2 weeks from now, the bullshit thing you have to study, or what work you have to do won't mean anything, you'll just realize it's a game that people are playing (primarily because they are intimidated by your own id and passion, but that's another topic), there's no way to stop or fight the game, getting mad at it is self-defeating... only way to realize it is to calmly laugh at it and say 'this is all just a game' and then move on, knowing what's true for you in your own heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    A rule of thumb that worked for me throughout high school and college on notetaking is: If the professor writes it on the board, copy it down in your notes. Otherwise, just listen. The stuff that s/he puts on the board is what they find important.

    At the end of the day, do a quick read-through of your notes if you have time, because quick 5 minute reviews of the important concepts keeps them fresh in your mind and you cut out huge study sessions where you're trying to cram everything. It also gives you a chance to check if you're clear on everything. And if not, you can check the text, or bring it up in class next time.

    I had many more hours of free time, and was far less stressed out that way.
    I'll definitely keep that in mind...Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I relate to what you describe, and think it mainly has to do with perfectionism, secondly with irrationality, and possibly with Se/Ni-valuing, as those types tend to segment time (whereas Si/Ne types, from my pov, seem more comfortable with a natural evolution of time).
    Segment time? Evolution of time?
    Could you elaborate on this? I had thought it was the other way around, with Se/Ni perceiving the past, present, and future as part of a continuum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    Because what you say is not simply generic "procrastination", but the way you see things, "is" or "is not". It boils down to reproduction, like an artist who makes a portrait, at one point it looks good, but then after several extra strokes it's still good, although different. Which one *is* the (good) one, this is the question? Dynamic types, in my observations, have not this problem, for them everything is "prepare it until it's *satisfactory*", things are not "yes" or "no". Statics can't understand the fluid evolution and cheangeability of things so easily, that things are not a certain way - or at least they don't focus on these, but absolutes.

    For the record: based on my observations, Dynamic types are incapable to evaluate themselves, more precisely to put themselves in a box, and ask (more or less directly) the opinion of people on their worthiness, and of course, Statics can't wait to picture everything/everyone. "Am I good?", "am I a loser?" - "all I know is what I can and can't do, but I can't deduce from it where I 'fit'". No matter how capable and how much self-esteem a Dynamic type person has, he/she always in doubt about *what* he is, apart for the sum of his actions, feelings, ideas, etc. A weakness in seeing properties and relations - the blueprints.
    But this gives them advantage in getting the job done. They do it until it looks fine, it's all a matter of refinement.

    Statics focus on judging what others *are*, Dynamics what others *do*.
    ---

    But you're apparently in search of external boundaries, too - not sure about this - so I could narrow it down to Ti. It's like the difference between playing the violin and the guitar. How can you know when you play the correct note on the violin while you have no reference in support? Of course, it sounds good, but it just doesn't feel "right". The difference between Ti and Fi types stands in the fact that Fi types can subjectively decide what's "good" because they can easily use convenience.

    Talking about instruments, I always had this problem, how to tune the guitar? It can be tuned lower or higher, but I end-up using standard E4 - similar to what you say, all (reasons) or none. I have friends who play and they have no existential problem in under-tuning it, but I have this problem because I simply can't find a principle for choosing, if I tune it one tone under and decide it's "perfect", then someone lowers the pitch again without my knowledge, I'll probably like that too! WTF? What should I choose, a multiple of the average frequency of my heart, a divisor of the minimum frequency of the chromatic spectrum? Things like these .
    I'm having some trouble understanding the first part of your post. I can kind of grasp the 'essence' of it, so to speak, but if asked to reiterate what you wrote to someone else, I don't think I'd be able to...

    As for me searching for external boundaries, I don't think I "search" for it. Rather, if they are in place, okay, I can work with it and in hindsight might even have needed it. For example, if rules/deadlines are in place, I can work well because I do the greatest amount of productive work when under pressure (to the detriment of my own health). However, I like best when limitations aren't set upon me, when I'm left to my own devices so that I don't have to rush or conform to certain standards or people-please or anything like that. That never seems to happen, though, so I'm always bogged down.

    Well... What I do, as far as tuning my violins/saxophones, is to just go with what sounds right. Always works for me

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    How to fix your problem: I would meditate, learn to 'lighten up', and re-attune yourself to the big picture. In 2 weeks from now, the bullshit thing you have to study, or what work you have to do won't mean anything, you'll just realize it's a game that people are playing (primarily because they are intimidated by your own id and passion, but that's another topic), there's no way to stop or fight the game, getting mad at it is self-defeating... only way to realize it is to calmly laugh at it and say 'this is all just a game' and then move on, knowing what's true for you in your own heart.
    What you describe seems like a "me against the world" mentality, which I don't agree with.

    You're saying that people tell you to study and do work because they're intimidated? That type of thought process seems self-centered to me, as if we're all special people that everyone else instinctively fear...

    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    I think it's a symptom of our times. Information and entertainment are so widely available it's almost impossible to get around it. The temptation to take a break from work pervades everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    That very well may be, so I guess it might not be type related. Well, not the isolated mindset, anyway - the reasons for being an 'all or nothing' person might be.

    There are a lot of alphas/betas in here, though, from what I gather.
    Last edited by Default; 09-27-2010 at 02:29 AM.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    Segment time? Evolution of time?
    Could you elaborate on this? I had thought it was the other way around, with Se/Ni perceiving the past, present, and future as part of a continuum.
    They see it as an abstract continuum because they segment it on a concrete level. The contexts that builds are always self-contained, representational; whereas is more directly attuned to the contexts of concrete experience.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Re: Se/Ni "segmenting" time, I think this is definitely the case. Ni/Se types tend to see "moments" as discreet, taking the approach of defining direct experience in terms of discreet "events" (involved static objects), and stringing them together to form an overarching perspective of their evolution (abstract dynamic fields).
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Re: Se/Ni "segmenting" time, I think this is definitely the case. Ni/Se types tend to see "moments" as discreet, taking the approach of defining direct experience in terms of discreet "events" (involved static objects), and stringing them together to form an overarching perspective of their evolution (abstract dynamic fields).
    yes.

    and I love that new avatar, Gilly.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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