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    Default Difference between Ti and Te

    This is a PM I sent to dolphin, but I thought some of it was pretty good, so I decided to post it. It starts off as an explanation of Ti via how LSI supervises SEE, but I went on to explain Te in the second half. The first workplace example it based off of one of Expat's anecdotes, but it's my own spin on it.



    Ti is subjective logic, meaning you make judgments based on a concrete, internal set of rules used to verify information and assess the quality of an action or thing.

    Here is a hypothetical example:

    At work, there is a manager who has been doing things that have caused his subordinates to be upset with him. This culminates in a confrontation between the manager and several employees, one of whom is SEE.

    The SEE has formed a negative Fi sentiment toward the manager, and he verbally expresses his feelings by shouting that the manager has failed in his job at the expense of the rest of the employees.

    Unfortunately for the SEE, there is another employee present who has sided with the manager and who happens to be LSI. The SEE's remarks toward his superior are perceived as an affront to the LSI's internal system of rules, and he harshly reprimands the SEE, firmly telling him that managers are not to be spoken to in such a manner.

    The SEE is helpless to respond, because his method of decision-making is based around his internal sentiments toward whatever is the object of his attention. He doesn't consider the propriety of his actions, and such rules are something that LSIs very astutely accumulate. LSIs have Fi role, which makes them insecure about the ethical ramifications of their actions and words, so they incorporate social etiquette into their Ti perception of reality.

    These "Ti rules" that are accumulated by the LSI, though subjective, are often valid and applicable to reality.

    Another example is when my SEE friend blurts out embarrassing information in a public setting, like the time they mentioned that one of their friends, who was present at the time, needed braces. I didn't want to bring any more attention to the person in question, so I said nothing. In private, however, I was very strict in telling them what I thought about their comment.

    The LSI can be wrong in his supervision of SEEs, but the SEE cannot respond because he knows that he does not consider the "rules" when making decisions. He is a creature of pure impulsive will, not of logic. This is not to say that he can't be highly intelligent, but his goals and decisions will be based off of impulsive desire, not logical analysis.



    To clarify the often confusing difference between Te and Ti, I want to go back to the first example and explain how Te would advise the SEE.

    Te wouldn't be concerned with the rules being broken. It would instead look at the matter in terms of consequences versus benefits, pros v cons. Very generally speaking, it would probably say something like this:

    "I agree that the manager is incompetent. However, a direct confrontation will probably result in the loss of employment, so it's probably not worth it. A better idea would be to anonymously complain to your boss's superiors about his incompetence."

    Instead of being smitten by a barrage of Ti rules and regulations, the SEE is given something he can digest: a matter-of-fact statement about the wisdom of his actions, as well as advice on the best alternative course of action.

    Here's one more way of looking at it. Say an SEE wants to explore a certain part of the wilderness and needs directions, which either Ti or Te can provide. Te would give the SEE a map with clearly labeled landmarks, warnings, and other useful information that the SEE can incorporate into this impulsive desire to ramble through the wilds.

    Ti, on the other hand, would create a detailed, step-by-step series of specific instructions on exactly how to traverse this particular region. The SEE would naturally perceive these directions as boring and overly restrictive, and most likely would end up ignoring them. However, ignoring the Ti instructions causes the SEE, who is without Te backup, to get lost for a week before finally returning home. Upon seeing the SEE, Ti scolds him for not following the instructions, an accusation against which the SEE cannot effectively mount any defense.
    Last edited by discojoe; 09-19-2010 at 04:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Here's one more way of looking at it. Say an SEE wants to explore a certain part of the wilderness and needs directions, which either Ti or Te can provide. Te would give the SEE a map with clearly labeled landmarks, warnings, and other useful information that the SEE can incorporate into this impulsive desire to ramble through the wilds.

    Ti, on the other hand, would create a detailed, step-by-step series of specific instructions on exactly how to traverse this particular region. The SEE would naturally perceive these directions as boring and overly restrictive, and most likely would end up ignoring them. However, ignoring the Ti instructions causes the SEE, who is without Te backup, to get lost for a week before finally returning home. Upon seeing the SEE, Ti scolds him for not following the instructions, an accusations against which the SEE cannot effectively mount any defense.
    This part really brought it home, thanks dj! It's a lot clearer to me now!
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    I agree with everything except the last part. I loathe detailed, step-by-step instructions, and would much rather someone tell me what needs to be done, with a brief synopsis of the boundaries in the situation. this gives me the freedom to improvise and add a 'personal touch' to whatever I have to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I agree with everything except the last part. I loathe detailed, step-by-step instructions, and would much rather someone tell me what needs to be done, with a brief synopsis of the boundaries in the situation. this gives me the freedom to improvise and add a 'personal touch' to whatever I have to do.
    Well this is essentially Ti base v Te base. Too much Ti will always piss off an IEI/SEI. An SLE would give more general directions, but they would still be "instructions" rather than a guide.
    Last edited by discojoe; 09-19-2010 at 07:14 AM.

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    SEE also have Te so that function gets activated while other functions are supervised. Si is especially ridiculed and criticized because SEE ignore it and raise particular disturbance while LSE tries to take pleasure in it and rest.

    LSI would not be disturbed by SEE's Se preference to make noise while they are submersing in Si because they both have Se in the ego block. But LSI would try to get SEE to follow their system, but if the SEE is blindly following another system, they will have a very hard time switching to LSI systems. These systems are not built on Si they are built on Se.
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    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    My boss is LSI and works closely with my SEE friend. They don't have any Ti/Fi conflicts like this. they always lean towards Se and work things out and because LSI has Fi role, he is able to empathize and understand my SEE friend.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    SEE also have Te so that function gets activated while other functions are supervised. Si is especially ridiculed and criticized because SEE ignore it and raise particular disturbance while LSE tries to take pleasure in it and rest.

    LSI would not be disturbed by SEE's Se preference to make noise while they are submersing in Si because they both have Se in the ego block. But LSI would try to get SEE to follow their system, but if the SEE is blindly following another system, they will have a very hard time switching to LSI systems. These systems are not built on Si they are built on Se.
    I dont recall this conversation ever referring to Si vs Se. Obviously that realm wont be a point of contention between SEE and LSI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I agree with everything except the last part. I loathe detailed, step-by-step instructions, and would much rather someone tell me what needs to be done, with a brief synopsis of the boundaries in the situation. this gives me the freedom to improvise and add a 'personal touch' to whatever I have to do.
    i've noticed one of the biggest things that comes up between myself and the SLE i work with is that when he instructs me to do something, i usually end up confused about what exactly it is that he expects from me and i ask for more specific detail. when i do this he seems to think i'm stupid or something. he seems to get really impatient by having to slow down and explain because it impedes the process or something.

    once he was talking to me trying to figure out what was going on with this interpersonal issue at work. and i was trying to explain who said what and trying to remember when they said it, etc. and he interjected. and in a soft, reassuring voice, he says, "now, honey, i don't need to hear all this piecemeal bullshit, i'm not a fucking cowboy, ok?" lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i've noticed one of the biggest things that comes up between myself and the SLE i work with is that when he instructs me to do something, i usually end up confused about what exactly it is that he expects from me and i ask for more specific detail. when i do this he seems to think i'm stupid or something. he seems to get really impatient by having to slow down and explain because it impedes the process or something.

    once he was talking to me trying to figure out what was going on with this interpersonal issue at work. and i was trying to explain who said what and trying to remember when they said it, etc. and he interjected. and in a soft, reassuring voice, he says, "now, honey, i don't need to hear all this piecemeal bullshit, i'm not a fucking cowboy, ok?" lol.
    lol one time i was in a similar situation with one of my supervisors, who probably was also SLE, now that you mention it. It's funny that your supervisor was the one who brought up the interpersonal issue too. You were just trying to supply the information which he apparently didn't want to hear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    lol one time i was in a similar situation with one of my supervisors, who probably was also SLE, now that you mention it. It's funny that your supervisor was the one who brought up the interpersonal issue too. You were just trying to supply the information which he apparently didn't want to hear.
    hah, well he was nice about it...the strong language is how he always talks, but the way he said it was soft and sweet, like he was reassuring me. i think he was trying to relieve me of using TeSi like he would do for his dual.

    but yeah, after he said it, i thought: what exactly do you want me to say, then??

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Ti, on the other hand, would create a detailed, step-by-step series of specific instructions on exactly how to traverse this particular region. The SEE would naturally perceive these directions as boring and overly restrictive, and most likely would end up ignoring them. However, ignoring the Ti instructions causes the SEE, who is without Te backup, to get lost for a week before finally returning home. Upon seeing the SEE, Ti scolds him for not following the instructions, an accusation against which the SEE cannot effectively mount any defense.
    This is a PLAN; in the realm of Ne valuing. not Se impulsivity. Because LSI has Se they can very well accomodate the impulsive nature of Se dominant SEE. Actually, it's a method because it concentrates on HOW to...hence Te....
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-19-2010 at 08:02 PM.
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    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Go away. Constantly being badgered by you and your false, worthless interpretations of socionics is very annoying.

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    Read what I wrote and think about it.
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    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Go away. Constantly being badgered by you and your false, worthless interpretations of socionics is very annoying.
    No she's right DJ. That's what an ILI would do. Anything sequential is gamma Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    No she's right DJ. That's what an ILI would do. Anything sequential is gamma Ni.


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    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    In case any neophytes are browsing this topic, please be aware that tcaudilllg and Maritsa are both considered insane by the general Socionics community, and the bulk of what they say may be safely discarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    No she's right DJ. That's what an ILI would do. Anything sequential is gamma Ni.
    It's actually confirmed by wikisocion:

    They are more confortable narrating events or stories, or making a point, on a sequential basis - "this happened, and then this, and then that" - since they are not confident that others will connect the dots as to how one event leads to the other, since the they do not feel confident when doing that themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i've noticed one of the biggest things that comes up between myself and the SLE i work with is that when he instructs me to do something, i usually end up confused about what exactly it is that he expects from me and i ask for more specific detail. when i do this he seems to think i'm stupid or something. he seems to get really impatient by having to slow down and explain because it impedes the process or something.
    yeah, the majority of SLEs I've dealt with, expect you to figure various details and nuances out yourself. I had one tell me, "yeah, I tend to give vague directions, so you kind of need to read my mind." actually I think this has to do with the fact that SLEs expect people to monitor their patterns, so the meaning of what they say should be implicit.

    once he was talking to me trying to figure out what was going on with this interpersonal issue at work. and i was trying to explain who said what and trying to remember when they said it, etc. and he interjected. and in a soft, reassuring voice, he says, "now, honey, i don't need to hear all this piecemeal bullshit, i'm not a fucking cowboy, ok?" lol.
    lol yeah, it's either, give a brief synopsis or, if you add anything, make it a personally relevant impression. SLEs seem to care a lot about subjective perception of experience. they'll relay their own in a seemingly scattered, blithe manner, but it's to find latent meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    hah, well he was nice about it...the strong language is how he always talks, but the way he said it was soft and sweet, like he was reassuring me. i think he was trying to relieve me of using TeSi like he would do for his dual.

    but yeah, after he said it, i thought: what exactly do you want me to say, then??
    convey some pattern of human behavior you derived from the experience. they're good at melding those kinds of things within a concrete structure, and so tend to exchange information more for its own value than the enjoyment of interaction. you basically have to read them and know what they want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Another example is when my SEE friend blurts out embarrassing information in a public setting, like the time they mentioned that one of their friends, who was present at the time, needed braces. I didn't want to bring any more attention to the person in question, so I said nothing. In private, however, I was very strict in telling them what I thought about their comment.

    doesn't this indicate Fi HA? i've been in a similar situation. In the end of an examination,i was the last one to give my papers .There was only that XLE professor who teaches the subject (and would only see me during the lectures) and a few supervisors left in the room.So while i was leaving he said something like "wow you've lost so much weight! " .I was like "yeah...." *asdfasfasfsaf*,nodding stoically and rushing out .I kept beating myself for that stupid answer afterwards.Like,I didn't even say goodbye. But then it hit me! He could think that i got sick so there was a possibility to give me a good grade out of pity! Got 6/10
    Last edited by Kalinoche buenanoche; 09-21-2010 at 02:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timewaster View Post
    doesn't this indicate Fi HA?
    Yes it is, but can you explain to me how it would be?
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    well, they do not consider how awkward the receiver of the remark can get,how it can affect the dynamics of the relationship etc.Like,they say it and go on as if nothing happened.
    Of course, no way did these 2 persons mean bad but they did not say anything the receivers hadn't considered so far.Stating the obvious is annoying most of the times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timewaster View Post
    well, they do not think how awkward the receiver of the remark can get,how it can affect the dynamics of the relationship etc.Like,they say it and go on as if nothing happened.
    Of course, no way did these 2 persons mean bad but they did not say anything the receivers hadn't considered so far.
    Yes, expecting the Fi dominant person to smooth over ethical mistakes (like if they happen to say things in a way that may be upsetting, when it was actually meant to be just informative).

    Great observation. Socionics is so simple and easy, that people think you need some really complicated formula to recognize the Function, or the need of certain functions in individuals. I'm not very organized, that tells you I need someone organized. Simple math.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Maritsa. She thinks she understand Socionics even though she does not.

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