What type is this person (not me, by the way :-)

[Jonathan]

Here's someone I know. I understand it's hard to get a sense of type just from a description...but here goes....

* This person is extremely organized; likes to organize the refrigerator, everything...
* In work, he enjoys activities that involve planning and analysis. He's particularly good at due diligence, financial forecasting, and things like that.
* He likes to stay one step ahead of everything. His favorite things to discuss involve plans. He is not usually that interested in discussing things that don't have a practical application...for example, he wouldn't typically discuss philosophy. Extensive discussion on a theoretical topic without a clear payoff would clearly seem like a waste of time. However, he does enjoy games that require mental skill.
* He is not particularly interested in sports.
* He is interested in discussing all the things that you should check, all the things that could go wrong, etc., the things that he plans to do, or that others plan to do or should do.
* His conversation is very action-oriented:
"What are we going to about this? We'd better do something about that."...etc.
* Some of his key values include decisiveness, thinking ahead, being realistic. He doesn't understand people who aren't decisive or who are too perfectionistic. He does value forward thinking, thinking of the future.
* If someone takes a long time doing something or waits for inspiration to do something, he would say that person probably didn't really want to do that thing anyway.
* He took the MBTI and came out INTJ.
* He plans everything out in advance. If things don't go as planned, he can get quite annoyed. However, if things do go as planned, he's generally quite relaxed and likes to read, "sit and relax," etc.
* When talking, he doesn't like being interrupted; it's very important to him to finish the sentence and bring it to a certain completion, even if he already made his point. This can create an air of formality.
* There is a certain depth, or weightiness to what he says. Around company, he can seem much more extraverted than at other times.
* In explaining things, he likes to be very methodical, going step by step, starting at the beginning. It's important that people pay attention and are with him every step of the way.

I don't know if that's enough to go on, but I'd be very interested in people's thoughts about what type(s) that sounds like.

[Rocky]

ExTJ

[implied]

[Jonathan]

tell a little bit more and it'll kill the indecision i am having here figuring out whether this person is ENTj or ESTj.

Feel free to ask questions.

He actually considers himself an introvert, having come out INTJ in MBTI, but I know that MBTI-extraversion and sociability doesn't mean much for Socionics. He's not much into parties and that sort of thing, and feels that his outgoingness is something he acquired rather than something that was natural. But he does like to get together with friends and organize social groups, outings, etc.

He may at times have a very pensive mood, especially when under pressure; however, most of the time he does articulate his thought process out in the open. His normal tone of voice is relatively loud but not harsh...it's clear and distinct and conveys a sense of certainty, clarity, and depth. However, he can be convinced by a good argument, especially from someone he knows has been right in the past.

Although he's good-humored and warm around people, he's not always particularly optimistic in outlook; he's inclined to point out that a plan may be too idealistic, not realistic enough.

He works hard and is always willing to take positions of leadership because he sees that something isn't being done, or isn't being done right. In extreme cases where there's a lack of adequate leadership, he may do something such as organize a committee to get the job done.

However, he never actively seeks a leadership role out of pure ambition; frequently, he's comfortable letting someone else be the official leader, and serving as an advisor. In that capacity, he tirelessly advocates the "long-range view."

[implied]

[Jonathan]

maybe if you could add in what his views are on this sort of thing

He doesn't talk about metaphysical things. He is into classical music, and is also has some interest in the latest technology. He also has an interest in inventions and entrepreneurship.

I wouldn't necessarily say that he likes to work all the time, although some of his leisure activities may appear like work to others.

I guess it boils does to Ni vs. Si. I suppose his emphasis on the future, making predictions, etc., might suggest Ni. On the other hand, he does like to relax, enjoy fine food, etc. He is definitely a connoisseur, the kind of person who enjoys the "finer things" in life.

[Expat]

There are a couple of things that strike as being more ESTj than ENTj, such as organizing the refrigerator, but altogether ENTj is more likely.

For what it's worth - and I think it is significant - ENTjs are Narrators, ESTjs are Taciturns, and from your description he's a Narrator.

[Expat]

@Dynamicism

I agree with that, as far as it goes, but I also think it's a mistake to discard a type with base on specific traits. Types are not perfect moulds.

From Jonathan's description he seems more like a Narrator than Taciturn, and so far I think this dichotomy works well.

[Phaedrus]

Almost all of the 13 points you mention in your first post, Jonathan, fit quite well a person I know. I have had some problems typing him.

The person I am thinking of is a mathematician and a professional chess player. His body type and voice suggest INTj. His face outlook probably suggests ENTj or INTj. Like me he is very impractical though (even more so than me) and he can be quite pedantic. He is very concerned about his health in a way that might suggest that it could be his hidden agenda. I have guessed him to be INTj, but he is slightly different from other INTjs I know, and one of the things that makes him different is his E-flavour. I have seen that in only one other INTj, but the fact that it is possible in one case could suffice of course.

[implied]

[Jonathan]

Thanks everyone....it seems there's unanimity that he's E, and I think that's right in Socionics. By looking at facial profiles, I lean towards ENTj perhaps with strong Se, but I'll have to observe him more and see if I find other things that point more to ESTj.