Question for Enneagram type 5 on emotional detachment and sensitivity

[Airman]

I´m going to be brief and blunt:

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU MANAGE TO BE SO FUCKING DETACHED FROM EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE EFFECT OF YOUR OFTEN VERY COLD AND DRY BEHAVIOR TOWARDS OTHERS, AND STILL DEMAND, PROTEST AND NOTICE WHEN OTHERS ARE EVEN A LITTLE COLD AND DRY WITH YOU OR WITH OTHER PEOPLE?

I have other questions to E5s but this is the first I´d like to see answers to.

I have this question because I´m an E1 surrounded on by a sea of E5s... older brother, father, my buddhist ex-Guru and now only friend, and other friends. All of them have this terrible coldness and aloofness from the world, but when you treat them like they treat you, they´re quick to notice. I wonder do they never look at their own cold and dry behavior? How can you demand and complain that someone is cold and harsh with you, if you act like that with that person? That´s what I see E5s going a lot of the time. I think they like the idea of not having to give anything in return, just getting, and so they think they deserve to be loved and be full of attention and etc without themselves doing anything.

[Skeptic]

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU MANAGE TO BE SO FUCKING DETACHED FROM EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE EFFECT OF YOUR OFTEN VERY COLD AND DRY BEHAVIOR TOWARDS OTHERS,.

Yeah I find that part easy

AND STILL DEMAND, PROTEST AND NOTICE WHEN OTHERS ARE EVEN A LITTLE COLD AND DRY WITH YOU OR WITH OTHER PEOPLE?

and here you're projecting. E5s may be described as hyper-sensitive, but it's unreasonable to claim that this specific thing is common to them. Many of us just don't have/don't notice this and will be unable to respond.

[ilikesex]

HOW ON EARTH CAN YOu poSSIBly MANAGE TO KEEP TALKING IN CAPITAL LeTTERS WIthoUT DYING OF SOME PLAgue I WANT TO HIre A bRAZILIAN HitmAN TO COME AND KILL YOU JUST SO I DONT HAVE TO READ YOUR FUCKING POSTS IN ALLCAPS BUT I DONT SPEAK Any iTALIAN so fucK OFF

[Creepy-male]

Umm wow, you should calm down a bit.... e5's just value privacy, which is a good thing if you think about it... I think if I had to deal with everyone everywhere at everytime I'd probably murder someone. A little privacy where you can shut out the world is a good thing in healthy doses, when an e5 is more aloof instead of fucking prodding them with a stick like they were a curled up insect, just see the positive in the aloofness, take some time to recharge your own batteries. When the e5 is complaining about not receiving attention that is usually a good indication that they are changing modes (think of it like a transformer) and trying to be more outgoing and assertive. Your problem is your over-asserting yourself... you want people to be in one mode when they are in the other, which isn't going to make anyone happy. People have their own free will your going to have to learn how to work with people in whatever mode they are in, that's the skill of a good social operator. They can look at a person and say to themselves in their head "oh that person is aloof, I better leave him alone unless its something imperative" or they can say "oh that person is trying to open up, I better let them know I want privacy or I should interact with them" or they can say "oh that person is a little frustrated/insecure about something, maybe I should be calm/composed, maybe I should join in on their rant, and if I decide to disagree I should be ready for a firestorm of a debate... and possibly have a good escape plan to defuse the situation if the debate gets too heated".... etc etc etc.... you have to learn to deal with people as they are and not to deal with them as you want them to be. Its just a basic facet of life, you have to learn. Also don't get all insecure about this, remember that operating with people socially has nothing to do with your beliefs. Your not betraying yourself if someone is ranting about something in public and you don't say anything, your just being shrewd about how you go about the obvious difference in opinion you two have. Most people are unwise to this and plung into a debate the moment some loud mouth is ranting angrily in public.... and usually it just escalates into a conflict where both people feel like the victim. Sometimes you have to pick your battles, your giving yourself a tall order in life to win every debate, win over every person, and so forth. You have to look and find whats important to your life in the long term and win that war and then be a clever strategist about how to win a select number of battles to reach that final goal. So with your family... I wouldn't get so hung up on a little alienation from time to time, constantly being bitter about that stuff is going to fling your relationship with them in the toilet. Learn to take in such a realization and do something about it to achieve your vision of an ideal relationship with your family, find a good way to express this, etc...

It's really simple, your using the enneagram wrong, if its a tool to find people's weakness and assert the moral high ground over them. This stuff is used to understand yourself and self-develop and to understand others so that you can interact with people more positively, its not ammunition to assume self-righteousness. A rant is one thing, but a good rant is about unloading frustration not battling for the moral high ground. Also a good rant is relatible to your audience.

[Airman]

Umm wow, you should calm down a bit.... e5's just value privacy, which is a good thing if you think about it... I think if I had to deal with everyone everywhere at everytime I'd probably murder someone. A little privacy where you can shut out the world is a good thing in healthy doses, when an e5 is more aloof instead of fucking prodding them with a stick like they were a curled up insect, just see the positive in the aloofness, take some time to recharge your own batteries. When the e5 is complaining about not receiving attention that is usually a good indication that they are changing modes (think of it like a transformer) and trying to be more outgoing and assertive. Your problem is your over-asserting yourself... you want people to be in one mode when they are in the other, which isn't going to make anyone happy. People have their own free will your going to have to learn how to work with people in whatever mode they are in, that's the skill of a good social operator. They can look at a person and say to themselves in their head "oh that person is aloof, I better leave him alone unless its something imperative" or they can say "oh that person is trying to open up, I better let them know I want privacy or I should interact with them" or they can say "oh that person is a little frustrated/insecure about something, maybe I should be calm/composed, maybe I should join in on their rant, and if I decide to disagree I should be ready for a firestorm of a debate... and possibly have a good escape plan to defuse the situation if the debate gets too heated".... etc etc etc.... you have to learn to deal with people as they are and not to deal with them as you want them to be. Its just a basic facet of life, you have to learn. Also don't get all insecure about this, remember that operating with people socially has nothing to do with your beliefs. Your not betraying yourself if someone is ranting about something in public and you don't say anything, your just being shrewd about how you go about the obvious difference in opinion you two have. Most people are unwise to this and plung into a debate the moment some loud mouth is ranting angrily in public.... and usually it just escalates into a conflict where both people feel like the victim. Sometimes you have to pick your battles, your giving yourself a tall order in life to win every debate, win over every person, and so forth. You have to look and find whats important to your life in the long term and win that war and then be a clever strategist about how to win a select number of battles to reach that final goal. So with your family... I wouldn't get so hung up on a little alienation from time to time, constantly being bitter about that stuff is going to fling your relationship with them in the toilet. Learn to take in such a realization and do something about it to achieve your vision of an ideal relationship with your family, find a good way to express this, etc...

It's really simple, your using the enneagram wrong, if its a tool to find people's weakness and assert the moral high ground over them. This stuff is used to understand yourself and self-develop and to understand others so that you can interact with people more positively, its not ammunition to assume self-righteousness. A rant is one thing, but a good rant is about unloading frustration not battling for the moral high ground. Also a good rant is relatible to your audience.

Wow that was good. That´s very nice of you to write for me here, thanks.

E5s are such a mystery, they can be so wise, but also so cold and harsh. But the more I get to know the mysteries of the soul the more I think that wisdom has a certain detached coolness to it. It´s not like the warmth of love for example. It seems to be a different quality of Being. So in a sense the coldness of E5s is perhaps just a kind of wisdom...like the Buddha who was probably an E5 and said that all human suffering comes from attachment. He was not like Jesus, talking about the power of love and devotion. It´s interesting to notice. I think the Buddha would be some NT type, Jesus would be some SF type, ESFJ perhaps.

Mohammed would be like... ESTJ.... E1 or E8.