Ashton: SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/sp

[stanprollyright]

I think the idea of actually having to know or talk to some one to type them is laughable. Look at celebrity typings.

Yeah but how accurate are those?

[07490]

Arguments like this go nowhere, I could say ISFp and find a way to argue it my way. It is almost like there is a mental block in the way most people think on here. Of course Ashton may fit one type more than another(as is the purpose of theoretical isolations of information metabolism in its correlation with people); that doesn't mean that Ashton IS a type; he simply relates to it.

That is how ENTp usually argues in this forum, they see the possibilities and argue it, it really doesn't go anywhere, and the next moment they can change their opinion, or argue they they see other possibilities and that this person can be another type, but what? that means that all of what you said earlier is contradict itself.

[07490]

By the way as to Ashton's type, when I first met him I got a big vibe that he's an EIE, but more and more that I know of him, I actually think he's right that he's an LIE. but definity > for sure.

[strrrng]

I heard recently that we often identify with our benefactors. I thought I was an LIE when I first joined, then I realised certain things. Ashton is the same as me, but he hasn't realised certain things.

lol ezra... you do realize that your entire premise for this typing is tangled up with this newfound delusion of you and ashton being similar, which you've used as a pedestal from which to 'one-up' him (i.e. "I see through you" etc.). how does mocking his 'powerful magnetism' that breeds followers bear on your argument when you went out of your way to give him all of this attention without justifying who else does?

[stanprollyright]

lol ezra... you do realize that your entire premise for this typing is tangled up with this newfound delusion of you and ashton being similar, which you've used as a pedestal from which to 'one-up' him (i.e. "I see through you" etc.). how does mocking his 'powerful magnetism' that breeds followers bear on your argument when you went out of your way to give him all of this attention without justifying who else does?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[717495]

I don't see what Ni everyone is speaking of when they speak of Ashton. All I see is typical *Beta TiFe rant* similar to that of IEIs, but no actual substance of Ni (no Ni rants of the deep unknown like those of dolphin, expat, bnd, aixelsyd, allie, hitta, me, etc.) and in general, no ties to an Ni-lead lifestyle. Instead I see the rashness and spontaneity of Se in plenty of his posts, where he has described his lifestyle like that in real life, which isn't surprising or at all different from ESTps, an obstinate and hard disposition just like Ezra and other Beta STs, and a great deal of explaining and weeding out of the importances of the Ti system to people, just like every other Ti creative. I already think he's a playful Fe type, rather than a serious Te type, and feeds off of the Fe types of atmospheres. Then there's that little comment that ESTps are unable to create their own Socionics forum in order to influence people of their ideas, from whoever that was. He doesn't talk or address things anywhat in the same manner as Te types do (read Expat and niffweed's posts which are typical Te manifestations), and I think Ezra is doing fine saying they're the same type. What I haven't even seen is a convincing argument that Ezra and Expat are somehow the same type "ESTj," but somehow you Ashton are Ni or creative Ni. If anything, Expat is correct in his own selftyping of ENTj, that is widely more backed up with reason, evidence, theory, and you're nothing like him, no Te, same Ti creative type as Ezra. That's much more believable to me. But right now I'm just curious about where you see Ni, or what you're confusing for Ni, imo that's not there. I would ask for Rick or Expat's opinions of why you're EIE if you'd like to recall those for me, just in case you don't have your own explanation.

[FDG]

I don't see what Ni everyone is speaking of when they speak of Ashton. All I see is typical *Beta TiFe rant* similar to that of IEIs, but no actual substance of Ni (no Ni rants of the deep unknown like those of dolphin, expat, bnd, aixelsyd, allie, hitta, me, etc.) and in general, no ties to an Ni-lead lifestyle. Instead I see the rashness and spontaneity of Se in plenty of his posts, where he has described his lifestyle like that in real life, which isn't surprising or at all different from ESTps, an obstinate and hard disposition just like Ezra and other Beta STs, and a great deal of explaining and weeding out of the importances of the Ti system to people, just like every other Ti creative. I already think he's a playful Fe type, rather than a serious Te type, and feeds off of the Fe types of atmospheres. Then there's that little comment that ESTps are unable to create their own Socionics forum in order to influence people of their ideas, from whoever that was. He doesn't talk or address things anywhat in the same manner as Te types do (read Expat and niffweed's posts which are typical Te manifestations), and I think Ezra is doing fine saying they're the same type. What I haven't even seen is a convincing argument that Ezra and Expat are somehow the same type "ESTj," but somehow you Ashton are Ni or creative Ni. If anything, Expat is correct in his own selftyping of ENTj, that is widely more backed up with reason, evidence, theory, and you're nothing like him, no Te, same Ti creative type as Ezra. That's much more believable to me. But right now I'm just curious about where you see Ni, or what you're confusing for Ni, imo that's not there. I would ask for Rick or Expat's opinions of why you're EIE if you'd like to recall those for me, just in case you don't have your own explanation.

Man...please stop. You're embarassing.

[717495]

You can feel free to actually say something... because this Beta manipulation isn't credible or doesn't actually work on me. Since you also selftype as "ENTj" but are nothing like ENTjs, you're also free to attempt to explain, with logic, facts, anything that gets the point across, why you or Ashton are Ni egos. Yes I already know that I'm not aligning with your Ti system of things, and you think I'm wrong, but you refuse to explain why. Go ahead.

[FDG]

It's not manipulation. I am completely sincere when I say it's embarassing.

[717495]

You are so obstinate, incapable of intellectual discussion on a forum dedicated to Socionics. Why are you even here?
Why am I here with you?
Why did Ezra even create this thread?

[Ezra]

If you don't want to hear any other opinion, just don't start a topic.

I choose not to take that advice. I'm expressing my own opinion. I don't care what other people think about Ashton's type, just that they know what I think. Hopefully it will convince them that I'm right.

[FDG]

You are so obstinate, incapable of intellectual discussion on a forum dedicated to Socionics. Why are you even here?
Why am I here with you?
Why did Ezra even create this thread?

Your posts have zero content which can be called "intellectual discussion".

[Ezra]

Ezra, your reasoning is really shitty. You quote niffweed saying Ashton is SLE, and then you suggest EIE for him yourself in the next paragraph.

Idiot. Or just blind. Reread.

lol ezra... you do realize that your entire premise for this typing is tangled up with this newfound delusion of you and ashton being similar, which you've used as a pedestal from which to 'one-up' him (i.e. "I see through you" etc.). how does mocking his 'powerful magnetism' that breeds followers bear on your argument when you went out of your way to give him all of this attention without justifying who else does?

I'm not trying to one-up him, and I think there are many differences between us. Like for example he is fucked in the head, I am psychologically healthy. He gets off on manipulation, I get off on hot women. He has a band of followers who practically revere him, and I sit back and find it really REALLY funny. Most of them are virgins with no real life experience. It's hilarious. Ashton is like a god to them. dolphin, Allie, they've had their moments. More amongst them. It's really funny. CPig is less sycophantic.

I don't really care about gaining the upper hand. There's no upper hand to gain. We lead different lives. I don't even know where the hell he's going in life, and I know exactly where I'm going.

[717495]

Your posts have zero content which can be called "intellectual discussion".

I think I made a couple fair points in just that last post, and stated a few questions and concerns. It wasn't the strongest argument I could have made, I think others have made stronger as to why he's not LIE, and I'm also sort of relying on the fact that it's sort of obvious he's not LIE, but I did state several reasons. I could be providing tons of Ashton's posts for a direct analysis, but those are everywhere and seem to differ in content, so it would be difficult to generalize directly off of one or two. It' best to just keep in mind the general idea of what I'm trying to say.

Do you even know what intellectual discussion constitutes? because in the past you seem like one to just lightly agree with the majority and not make a point of your own. You need help getting warmed up?

[Ezra]

"When my mother was pregnant with me, they did an ultrasound and found she was having twins. When they did another ultrasound a few weeks later, they discovered, that I had resorbed the other fetus. Do I regret this? No, I believe his tissue has made me stronger. I now have the strength of a grown man and a little baby."

-dwight shrute, my boyfriend

Ahhh, American Office looks funny on paper. Sadly, it doesn't translate into real life. UK OFFICE TIL I DIE

[Gilly]

no ties to an Ni-lead lifestyle.

Niffweed has this delusional idea that all Ni primaries are shut-ins because he needs something to identify with.

[717495]

Niffweed has this delusional idea that all Ni primaries are shut-ins because he needs something to identify with.

If you're referring to Ni's inertia, because of having an internal intuitive world to reflect on, that is a common trait of Ni dominants and its in plenty of descriptions. He also references many other things provided in their type descriptions.

[Gilly]

Ashton's "followers":

CPig: Actually just does his own thing, doesn't really seem to give two shits about socionics

dolphin: has similar ideas because she learned a lot of the same stuff at the same time Ashton did, maybe used to have a little bit of a follower thing but definitely does her own thing now

Allie: probably the best candidate if anyone was ever actually a "follower" of Ashton's, but doesn't really care

strrrng: learned some stuff regarding Socionics from Ashton but definitely has his own way of doing things; although they have comparable methods, when compared with you, niffweed, or expat, they often disagree. Would never submit to being a "follower" of anyone, unless it was to control them behind the scenes

Who else is there?

I think Ashton often appears like something of a ringleader because he is extremely confident in his ideas, even when they are misguided, and people often wind up either agreeing with him or not bothering to disagree because of his natural insistence; that's just being a Logical 8 though. The reason he seems incapable of being convinced is, in my experience with him, because he makes copious amounts of comparisons between examples that, even when they are demonstrated to be "inconsistent" or without any discernible underlying systematic approach, are based on what he sees in the most explicit terms; therefore until someone provides him with overwhelming evidence, he tends to stick to his guns.

Oddly enough, what a lot of people fail to recognize because they had mostly exposure to the results of his research and not his actual methods, is that Expat's underlying intellectual process was incredibly similar, and it was part of the reason they butted heads to much.

2 LIE 8s, with confidence in what they see because it is "obvious" to them (Te) and their methods very based upon personally motivated, highly contextualized, constantly evolving and implicitly projected/applied frameworks (Ni), and the general assumption that they know what they are doing and people should probably listen to them...of course there was conflict, they were treading on each others toes without even trying.

Am I the only one who isn't still confused about this shit?

I'm still laughing at things like Ashton's allegedly "impressive command" over people, lmao...Ezra you are so stupid sometimes

[squark]

Idiot. Or just blind. Reread.

"definitely an EIE OR an 8 thing," k, whatever. I skimmed and missed "or 8." But, I'm not the one quoting niffweed and using an imaginary "gamma exodus" as evidence.

[717495]

Ashton's blind "followers":

Who else is there?

I'm still laughing at things like Ashton's allegedly "impressive command" over people, lmao Ezra you are so stupid sometimes

Galen, Tom, Deante, Jriddy, dolphin, allie, eunice, ArchonAlarion, steve?, strrrng? cpig? maybe me? and more others that I'd prefer not to care about.

[stanprollyright]

He has a band of followers who practically revere him, and I sit back and find it really REALLY funny. Most of them are virgins with no real life experience. It's hilarious. Ashton is like a god to them. dolphin, Allie, they've had their moments. More amongst them. It's really funny. CPig is less sycophantic.

Whether or not Ashton's "band of followers" actually exists the way you say it does, you realize your examples of them are 3 Gammas, right?

[Gilly]

If you're referring to Ni's inertia, because of having an internal intuitive world to reflect on, that is a common trait of Ni dominants and its in plenty of descriptions. He also references many other things provided in their type descriptions.

Yes, they experience a certain level of internal inertia, but not all of them allow themselves to be utterly victimized by it; if you actually cared to venture out into the real world and had significant social exposure, you'd see that plenty of them, even ILIs, can be rather sociable and engaged in life. Niffweed just refuses to accept this fact because he is an entranced 5w4 so-primary who needs both an excuse for his hermit-like tendencies and a social identity to latch onto.

Sorry, but I'm right this time.

[Gilly]

Galen, Tom, Deante, Jriddy, dolphin, allie, eunice, ArchonAlarion, steve? maybe me? and more others that I'd prefer not to care about.

Jake clearly learned some things from him. Perhaps one of the stronger candidates for an actual follower. He and Tom are both useless clowns though, and Tom hardly gives enough of a fuck to be considered anything like a devotee.

JRiddy listens to Ashton and shares some ideas with him but really doesn't give a shit.

Steve is always off in lala land so he probably just took what was fed to him.

I don't see Galen as a follower of Ashton's at all; perhaps he was a member of socionix but I never saw him actively promoting anything like Model X.

Eunice? Huh?

Honestly I think you are missing the forest for the clumps of trees here; mostly these people just share ideas about the incorporation of a more subjectively-oriented approach to typing people, and aren't any more of a cult or following than anyone who has ever been on this forum who has listened to my ideas, or niffweeds, or Expat's, and incorporated them into their understanding. Fuck, if those are your criteria, then basically this whole forum is mine and Expat's cult; we practically wrote the book for you fuckers on information metabolism (anndelise definitely promoted it first, but she didn't really convince anyone) and the full extent of model A.

The bottom line is, just because those people have different methods of doing things, does NOT make them a "following" or "cult" or "Ashton's Army." In fact, most of you could stand to learn a thing or two from them; I've incorporated their methods into my own understanding, and I've found some of their approaches, although not all, to be extremely useful, and not necessarily in contradiction with Model A Socionics. This coming from the person who once condemned them openly, relegated their beliefs to a separate section of the forum, and wrote "Model A" on half the Socionics discussion forums. So maybe you should listen.

[717495]

2 LIE 8s, with confidence in what they see because it is "obvious" to them (Te) and their methods very based upon personally motivated, highly contextualized, constantly evolving and implicitly projected/applied frameworks (Ni),

Is this really where the idea is coming from? That's Ni to you, an unspoken framework? You will understand Ti better when you notice that all the Ti types are like this. There is no factual substance able to be explicity applied to source how Te types do. Ashton's logical framework is much more internal, implicit and unspoken than Expat's externally stated observations and objectified findings in studying the theory. Expat will go out of his way to state the facts concerning his reasons. Intuition or sensing doesn't provide the "rationale," but the method for observation. Ashton looks at people's faces and the direct feeling he gets from them, backs it up with finding a few people's stories which makes the decisions come across logical, and never goes deep into pondering their actual personality and their relational differences like how Expat does.

[Gilly]

Maybe you should read all of what I said instead of projecting an unintended meaning onto two words.

[Gilly]

Maybe if you had actually worked closely with Expat during the period when he was refining his ideas about Socionics, like I did, then you could pretend to know what the fuck you are talking about.

[Gilly]

Maybe if you had a brain I would waste more breath on you. Goodbye.

[717495]

Jake clearly learned some things from him. Perhaps one of the stronger candidates for an actual follower. He and Tom are both useless clowns though, and Tom hardly gives enough of a fuck to be considered anything like a devotee.

JRiddy listens to Ashton and shares some ideas with him but really doesn't give a shit.

Steve is always off in lala land so he probably just took what was fed to him.

I don't see Galen as a follower of Ashton's at all; perhaps he was a member of socionix but I never saw him actively promoting anything like Model X.

Eunice? Huh?

Honestly I think you are missing the forest for the clumps of trees here; mostly these people just share ideas about the incorporation of a more subjectively-oriented approach to typing people, and aren't any more of a cult or following than anyone who has ever been on this forum who has listened to my ideas, or niffweeds, or Expat's, and incorporated them into their understanding. Fuck, if those are your criteria, then basically this whole forum is mine and Expat's cult; we practically wrote the book for you fuckers on information metabolism (anndelise definitely promoted it first, but she didn't really convince anyone) and the full extent of model A.

The bottom line is, just because those people have different methods of doing things, does NOT make them a "following" or "cult" or "Ashton's Army." In fact, most of you could stand to learn a thing or two from them; I've incorporated their methods into my own understanding, and I've found some of their approaches, although not all, to be extremely useful, and not necessarily in contradiction with Model A Socionics. This coming from the person who once condemned them openly, relegated their beliefs to a separate section of the forum, and wrote "Model A" on half the Socionics discussion forums. So maybe you should listen.

What are you Te-PoLR? All of these people type everyone the same as Ashton and use the same face recognition software, etc. Except maybe not those I put a question mark after.

[Creepy-female]

"When my mother was pregnant with me, they did an ultrasound and found she was having twins. When they did another ultrasound a few weeks later, they discovered, that I had resorbed the other fetus. Do I regret this? No, I believe his tissue has made me stronger. I now have the strength of a grown man and a little baby."

-dwight shrute, my boyfriend

[Gilly]

Maybe if you had a brain I would waste more breath on you. Goodbye.

What are you Te-PoLR? All of these people type everyone the same as Ashton and use the same face recognition software, etc. Except maybe not those I put a question mark after.

Actually they don't, and even if they did it would have fuck all to do with Te. Go rewire yourself and talk to me when you have a brain that is capable of thinking objectively.

[xerx]

Fuck, if those are your criteria, then basically this whole forum is mine and Expat's cult;

I'm a devotee of Rick and DarkAngelFireWolf69.

[717495]

Actually they don't, and even if they did it would have fuck all to do with Te. Go rewire yourself and talk to me when you have a brain that is capable of thinking objectively.

You don't think I understand that they all don't know why they do it? That's pretty obvious--but they still do it. Don't try to change the reality of the situation. Ashton has a giant celebrity typelist he and others have designed, and they base everyone off of the same few looks, without really acquiring a knowledge of all the looks, instead kind of logically chunking them in, and then they continuously make attempts at applying some vague terms/concepts that allegedly have to do with Socionics or Jung, as well as some factoids: like "oh my ISTp friend does the same thing" "I know 2 other INFps who are like that." stuff that has nothing to do with Socionics and could be applied to anyone. Ashton owns that little forum devoted to his branch theory, Ashton typed most of the famous people, Ashton gives his VI opinions on everyone, and those certain people go along with it. That's the story of model X and it's followers.

[Creepy-male]

Rick is good stuff.

[xerx]

Rick is good stuff.

Lytov, Reinin and Augusta (of course) are pretty good too.

[Creepy-male]

The only bit of Aushra that I've been exposed to is her definitions of the elements, which were painfully abstract. The mechanical analogies are nice for me now that I understand how all the elements work, but if I didn't have that context... yeah.

As for Reining, other than Reinin dichotomies, what has he produced? Similarly for Lytov. Enlighten me

[xerx]

The only bit of Aushra that I've been exposed to is her definitions of the elements, which were painfully abstract. The mechanical analogies are nice for me now that I understand how all the elements work, but if I didn't have that context... yeah.

As for Reining, other than Reinin dichotomies, what has he produced? Similarly for Lytov. Enlighten me

Lytov wrote a lot about socionics on his former site socioniko.net, some of it good and some bad. He writes a lot of very concise articles about socionics; some of them are even translated in the article section on this site. I'll send you Reinin's type descriptions via PM.

[Azeroffs]

And here you are doing the very thing you criticize them for. Everything you stated in the 1st paragraph was an empty statement.

The difference is that I'm not making any hard assertions, just an impression. I could definitely be wrong and wouldn't be the least bit surprised if I was.

All I'm saying is that you act like other merry extroverts on here, and you seems to get along pretty well with them. Does that mean you are Ti-creative or even merry? no. Does that mean that you could be? yes. I'm just going with the evidence I do have. Which is minimal.

Everyone else seems to think that their impression is the hard truth, or maybe it's just more likely that everyone here is just insanely dramatic and secretly likes these flame wars.

[xerx]

If this thread doesn't produce any real arguments for or against Ashton's type in the next 5 posts, I'm moving it to anything goes. That's notwithstanding the last 7 pages of character attacks, irrelevant posturing and socionics dick waving.

[Gilly]

How does this qualify for Anything Goes? It's about someone's type.