Mistyped by bad introversion/extroversion definitions

[Angel von Himmel]

I know I am not alone in noticing this, but I think that it is pretty apparent that there are insanely hugh descrepencies in the Introversion and Extroversion dictonomies and definitions that are being used by MBTI and various other typologies, such as Kershey.

Let me give an example of some of the insane stereotypical crap that is out there, so we can touch bases on what I am trying to say about this:

Say that a person is self-centered, which typically means that a person is selfish towards others and has a "ME ME ME ME ME only ME" type attitude. Now, does that mean that that person is an introvert? If so, does that mean that extroverts are not ever self-centered and always self-sacrificing, because they are extroverted and energy expenders? Does is mean that Extroverts can not be selfish bigots? Hardly!

Excuse me for the personal example and I guess you can say that this is sort of a self-confession, but I can be a very self-centered person. I think people can see that and some[like Rocky for example] mistakenly attribute some of those traits to introversion, which for the most part pisses me off 'cause I know it is based on a bad type of dictonomy for introversion and extroversion. It is not that it is not possible that I am an introvert, I simply disagree with the method of determination for naturally it is flawed.

Anyhow, in result of attempting to clear up this confusion, I have been working with the Objective and Subjective parts of the functions and the types in order to discern which types are commonly mistaken for introverts and extroverts, and which socionic types are ambiverted according to a more MBTI type scale.

Below is the list that I have compiled using an accepted philosophical Objective/Subjective scale based on what was known before Jung's typology. I can not determine the accuracy of this as of yet, since it is more theoretical, but I am thinking this is closer than some of the other trash I have been seeing as off late.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ESFj-ESTp-ISTj-ENTj-ESTj <- Primarily Objective
ESFj-ESTp-ISTj-ENTj-ESTj <- introvert could seem very extroverted, extroverts usually correctly considerted extroverted

ENTp-ENFj-ESFp-ISFj-ISTp-INTj <- Ambiverted - Introverts can easily be mistaken for Extroverts
ENTp-ENFj-ESFp-ISFj-ISTp-INTj <- Ambiverted - Extroverts can easily be mistaken for Introverts

ISFp-INFp-INTp-ENFp-INFj <- Primarily Subjective
ISFp-INFp-INTp-ENFp-INFj <- extrovert commonly mistaken for introvert, introverts commonly mistaken for extroverts.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think?

[Sarah]

Option 3: People are sometimes mistyped by stereotypical definitions for introversion and extroversion that sometimes work in real-word scenarios and sometimes don't.

[Angel von Himmel]

Option 3: People are sometimes mistyped by stereotypical definitions for introversion and extroversion that sometimes work in real-word scenarios and sometimes don't.

Yeah, but if it is an all or nothing thing, then what is the point?

[Sarah]

Option 3: People are sometimes mistyped by stereotypical definitions for introversion and extroversion that sometimes work in real-word scenarios and sometimes don't.

Yeah, but if it is an all or nothing thing, then what is the point?

What? Why is it all or nothing? That seems arbitrary. Maybe we are talking about different things---what are you saying is all or nothing?

[Gronau]

With your scale I don´t agree. For example INTj would never be mistaken for extraverts. I borrow the list from http://www.sozionik.info/buch/3.htm#5gl which I find pretty good.

object orientated (EJ, IP): sorted from extraverted to introverted
(ENFJ)
(ENTJ)
(ESFJ)
(ESTJ)
(INFP)
(INTP)
(ISFP)
(ISTP)

structure orientated (EP, IJ): sorted from introverted to extraverted
(INTJ)
(INFJ)
(ISTJ)
(ISFJ)
(ENTP)
(ENFP)
(ESTP)
(ESFP)

- J are "real" extra- or intraverted, P have a wider spectrum in their appearance
- IP can sometimes mistaken for E and EP for I
- F is more outgoing than T
- N has more ups and downs, S is more constant in time

[Rocky]

My dad think's he's an Extravert, even though this type of behavior would never happen in an ENTP.

But I don't think its a problem on this board. We're all cool with it.


I have more problems with people's definitions of the funcitons

[Rocky]

With your scale I don´t agree. For example INTj would never be mistaken for extraverts. I borrow the list from http://www.sozionik.info/buch/3.htm#5gl which I find pretty good.

object orientated (EJ, IP): sorted from extraverted to introverted
(ENFJ)
(ENTJ)
(ESFJ)
(ESTJ)
(INFP)
(INTP)
(ISFP)
(ISTP)

structure orientated (EP, IJ): sorted from introverted to extraverted
(INTJ)
(INFJ)
(ISTJ)
(ISFJ)
(ENTP)
(ENFP)
(ESTP)
(ESFP)

- J are "real" extra- or intraverted, P have a wider spectrum in their appearance
- IP can sometimes mistaken for E and EP for I
- F is more outgoing than T
- N has more ups and downs, S is more constant in time

That list's bullshit.

The level of Extra/Intro-version in the psychological sense is independant of type.

Maybe you are using "outgoing" or whatever. Even so, I think it is sketchy.

[Topaz]

I dont ever remember reading a description that says that all introverts are selfish and all extraverts are magnanimous. Where are you getting this? Sometimes the most loving thing someone can do for another is just to listen, and that means not talking or being destracted by other things. Selfishness and kindness are attitudes anyone can have.

[Rocky]

I just remembered something from talking to Isha today that could be related to Energy level.

The Collective Unconsious.

Isha said that Introverts are more aware of the Collective Unconcious and that thay are able to control it better. I have also thought in the past that Introverts were less affected by it. It seems like Introverts look at the "world" from such a detached perspective that they can notice the Unconcious and how it takes a hold of people's lives. When this happens, the Introvert tries to go against the tide and warp the flow of the Unconcious.

Just a thought.

[Angel von Himmel]

Option 3: People are sometimes mistyped by stereotypical definitions for introversion and extroversion that sometimes work in real-word scenarios and sometimes don't.

Yeah, but if it is an all or nothing thing, then what is the point?

What? Why is it all or nothing? That seems arbitrary. Maybe we are talking about different things---what are you saying is all or nothing?

Because if a definition for extroversion or introversion can ever be doubted, then anyone typed using the definition was typed by someone who apparently values his or her own opinion over absolute fact. That is why most definitions can not be trusted.

[Angel von Himmel]

With your scale I don´t agree. For example INTj would never be mistaken for extraverts. I borrow the list from http://www.sozionik.info/buch/3.htm#5gl which I find pretty good.

object orientated (EJ, IP): sorted from extraverted to introverted
(ENFJ)
(ENTJ)
(ESFJ)
(ESTJ)
(INFP)
(INTP)
(ISFP)
(ISTP)

structure orientated (EP, IJ): sorted from introverted to extraverted
(INTJ)
(INFJ)
(ISTJ)
(ISFJ)
(ENTP)
(ENFP)
(ESTP)
(ESFP)

- J are "real" extra- or intraverted, P have a wider spectrum in their appearance
- IP can sometimes mistaken for E and EP for I
- F is more outgoing than T
- N has more ups and downs, S is more constant in time

Hmmm, this scale is set up slightly diffrently and it isn't emphasizing the same thing the scale I posted emphasizes, but I do like that what is written towards the end. I might have posted this scale initially instead if I had known about it.

[Angel von Himmel]

I dont ever remember reading a description that says that all introverts are selfish and all extraverts are magnanimous. Where are you getting this? Sometimes the most loving thing someone can do for another is just to listen, and that means not talking or being destracted by other things. Selfishness and kindness are attitudes anyone can have.

I think I confused you with my example ...

[Creepy-]

With your scale I don´t agree. For example INTj would never be mistaken for extraverts. I borrow the list from http://www.sozionik.info/buch/3.htm#5gl which I find pretty good.

object orientated (EJ, IP): sorted from extraverted to introverted
(ENFJ)
(ENTJ)
(ESFJ)
(ESTJ)
(INFP)
(INTP)
(ISFP)
(ISTP)

structure orientated (EP, IJ): sorted from introverted to extraverted
(INTJ)
(INFJ)
(ISTJ)
(ISFJ)
(ENTP)
(ENFP)
(ESTP)
(ESFP)

- J are "real" extra- or intraverted, P have a wider spectrum in their appearance
- IP can sometimes mistaken for E and EP for I
- F is more outgoing than T
- N has more ups and downs, S is more constant in time

I think this is extremely sketchy. I also think that if people are going to make associations with S, N, T, F they use use Si/Se, Ni/Ne etc.

[FDG]

I think stereotypes are generally an okay indicator.

[Gronau]