well if it makes you happy, but I'd be careful throwing around dialogue like that... you may get the wrong kind of attention... that sounds a bit sexual, but I'm guessing you mean to say that to someone to just receive a massage from/cuddle with... and not to get taken to the promised land by the reverend and witness the second cumming of christ.Originally Posted by Maritsa33
lol
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Sadly, it's probably more "ok" for a female than a male - well especially in the case of kids I mean. Why would it make you feel like a creep when other people touch you though? :-p
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
That's right this is how I talk to the women in the bedroom... I just come up with really clever lines that require too much thought and wit to apply.....
Woman: Talk dirty to me....
Me: you can be my electron so you can ride on the pulse of electromagnetic energy that I'm about to emit from all the oscillations that are going to be going down in here tonight baby.
Woman: Uhh.........
Me: I'm going to fuck you...
Woman: Oh yea!
***later on as climax approaches
Me: Oh god you look like a catapillar
Woman: Excuse me?? *confused*
Me: Yes... a catapillar who is about to undergo a transformation into a butterfly which is going to flaps its wings and cause a tsunami in japan
Woman: Um.....
Me: Yes now that there is a tidal wave in japan, they have to call in the red cross....
Woman: Uh....
Me: And the red cross nurse there is very hot, and she has a pet.... do you know what the pet is?
Woman: ....... *blank expression*
Me: It's a butterfly and not just any butterfly but its your twin sister butterfly you have known since you both were in a cocoon
Woman: *loses enthusiasm and stops*
Me: Oh but wait the japanese have enlisted nano-samurai robot bees to stop the butterflys because they know about how you caused the tsunami and they want to destroy your twin sister.
Woman: ?????
Me: Yes yes.... now the red cross nurse must make out with another woman because the japanese programmed the nano-samurai robot bees also to take preverted pictures of women making out.... shes a member of PETA also who wears sexy animal skin... although that makes completely no sense what so ever.... as wearing animal skin is usually against the agenda of PETA... in this case the animal skin was also produced by japanese scientists... and in no ways is illogical.... but she must make out to prevent the robot bees from completing their mission....... but little did they realize your twin sister is the dali lamma and jesus christ incarnate and the nurse must protect the fate of the entire world by sensuously making out with the nearest female.... as her life depends on it as the fate of the entire world! They are literally making out like its the end of the world and their life depends on it!
Woman: ....... *starts to leave*
Me: Etc etc etc
Sure.... I agree, essentially Se is about seeing the experience for what it is... this to me has always seemed to be the mentality of the "realist". They see the experience for what it is... good or bad.... they are highly receptive to this type of information. This is the "glasses" they wear to view reality. It's there perspective. Not to say, other types don't see reality or are unaware of there experience... they are but it gets lost in translation somehow... it becomes less focused on, in a way it becomes "manufactured" in a sense to their ego function and in the process its original source becomes less emphasized.
Every type must have Se somewhere in there psyche... but not every type has it as an ego function. Therefore it is possible this information is unconscious (Id/Super-Id) or conscious (Ego/Super-Ego). Further if its conscious (Ego/Super-Ego) it is either valued or undervalued as a result of where a person's focus is. If you focus on Ne, Se... "reality" merely becomes the clay from which you consider the potential of things. If you focus on Se, Ne... "potential" merely becomes the clay from which you consider the reality of things. Both essentially see the same thing... but merely from different perspectives. A pyramid is still a pyramid regardless of what perspective you see it from... but it does appear different when viewed from different vantage points. If I show you a picture of a pyramid in an unfamiliar vantage point... its not like you don't actually see the pyramid in that vantage point... you do... its just immediately it clicks in you... oh wait... that's really just ____, the vantage point you remember it from. You translate this experience into a preferred form. Se ego's have the preferred form of seeing reality as it is, without modification, just being fully aware of the experience... you can give them potentials... but to them this immediately bounces back into this "reality" perspective. Ne ego's have the preferred form of seeing reality as having potentials, no seeing it as it currently is, but what it could be.... even if you throw "this is how it is" at the Ne ego... they will translate this into well that means "it could be like this". Neither one is effectively blind to the information of other conscious functions... they are merely bias towards a particular type of information which is their preferred vantage point... as according to model A... the ability to simultaneously consider two conflicting pieces of information does not exist such as Ne and Se.
So basically while all types are aware of Se... it gets translated and chewed up like raw material to be used in their "vantage" point of reality. In the case of the Se-ego... that information is not just the ore.... its the metal itself. Simply experiencing something to them is receiving information in it's pure form to them rather than receiving it in an incomplete form that has to be digested.
There are essentially two factories if I understand socionics... an unconscious one and a conscious one. Each of them are bidirectional... and relate to tempermants. One is conscious another unconscious. EJ/IP and EP/IJ are merely a matter of direction. These factories process information elements... to produce them in a preferred vantage point which is fixated on a single leading function.
None of this is apparent on the surface... what you will see is manifestations of these characteristics.
To me SeTi is a realist as they don't take reality and process it into their preferred package like other types do... they take it straight up. This creates a portrait of an individual who is the typical realist. Of course there INFp-DS makes them unconsciously in need of NiFe information as this information helps their unconscious Te/Si nature flourish via stimulating production through their unconscious tempermant channel. The information produced in the Id, assists the ego unconsciously. This is manifested in the ESTp as an unconscious attraction towards NiFe.... being unconscious they are hardly aware of the unique vantage point this information is associated with... instead they know this kind of information somehow stimulates them. They have experiences with this kind of information and it works through them in such a way that leaves them feeling empowered in their ego... likely the unconscious nature of it means their ego feels suddenly inspired.
They are around an INFp... the INFp's perspective generates constant awareness of NiFe which unconsciously inspires their ego.... they feel this and are drawn to the INFp.
The ESTp however does not consciously have the appreciation the INFp has for NiFe information... all they know is it inspires their ego.... they don't really know much on the topic... but when its the current topic of consideration they feel inspired by some unconscious process.
Therefore the ESTp is likely to greatly enjoy idealistic/romantic/detached things because it inspires in them the potential for fuller experience... but its not like they are themselves the romantics.... that's the INFp...... which have Ni ego which are left only more inspired by the experiences and viewpoints of the ESTp.
That's my exposition.
Fair enough although this sounds incredibly similar to what you are saying below.... I am just saying I use the labels "Cynic/Realist" and "Idealist" to categorize these... I have a sneaking suspicion there is a mis-communication here. I have this entire internal mental theme built up surrounding just these two words.... in general I consider character in films in a lot of ways to represent either idealists or cynic/realists.
HLD: in other words:
SLE: totally externally oriented. kind of a void in his inner life.
IEI: totally internally oriented. kind of a void in his external life.
this is why they need each other. they are extreme people who need another extreme person to balance them out.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I NEED AN EXTREME PERSON TO BALANCE ME OUT.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
What I meant was a level of purity. Definition and the 'right exact colors' to use are more difficult to figure out for Se/Ni valuers, we view it as more 'pointless' so our art is going to just be more vibrant and pure colorful than more immediate colors mixing together- even if we tried to make something like that the overall piece would still just be like a pure one-note strike. Weaving together many pure, simple truths is something you'll see se/ni valuers doing a lot.
It's a level of idealization, because how much it is removed from all of reality no matter how you slice it. You can *try* to be realistic with it, but as long as the Se/Ni valuer is so removed from all of reality that way, the more their natural idealist self will appear.
A Si/Ne valuer won't be like this at all, they will try to force everybody into physical contexts much, much more. They will think they are doing the right thing and won't understand how annoying they're being. You don't see Ashton or Dolphin (or any other Se-valuer) doing that with me, and that's something about them I like a lot. But the more educated the si/ne valuer is the more they will suggest a physical context that is at least in harmony with our psychological worlds. And the advice can still be useful, but they just do it way too much - esp. enfp therapists. Headache-inducing. It's like, I just want to go out with somebody I really care about and be inside jokey and not all this million o crapola of crap they want me to do. lol they don't understand how to properly synthesize things or something.
Then alpha isfps/esfjs will criticize me for not being nice to everybody all at once or something, when my brain just can't handle the mass-level of information that they can. That just drives me nuts but they do it pretty effortlessly.
No they aren't extreme.... they merely have a preferred "vantage point" or perspective on life.
In the same way if a person went to a resteraunt and ordered a cheeseburger because they preferred that over a salad, you wouldn't say that this person is a cheeseburger fanatic and there entire life is centered around eating a cheeseburger... there is obviously more complexity to there life than the cheeseburger and that goes without saying... it is merely a preference they have. Se-egos merely prefer to have their conscious focus placed on external reality. It is not so much that there is a void in the internal reality, but it's something they don't focus on... while as for the Ni-ego it becomes the central focus.
Mental Masturbation Mode is ON.
CURRENTLY PLAYING:
ANANKE
HAVELUCIDDREAMZ
ACTIVITY: GRABBING EACH OTHER´S GENITALS
The longer a post gets, the more chance I have of not reading it at all. No patience.
no....the void is not in the head, it's in the body. :wink:
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
i don't know what cheeseburgers have to do with anything. this is a stretch that is too far off topic. the void in internal reality is a natural consequence of being externally oriented. like i said, we are saying the same thing.
i would have to find the original thread about this though. i wanna say it was workaholics who posted it.
Last edited by Blaze; 07-27-2010 at 12:37 AM.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Lol this forum (General Discussion - Model A) is the mental masturbation one. It's like a circle/jerk orgy for Model A. Idle chit chat about interesting stuff is really "Anything Goes". While real world examples fit easily into "Famous Personas", "Is it Type Related", or "What's my Type". If there was one area to safely mentally masturbate on socionics... it's this one.Mental Masturbation Mode is ON.
CURRENTLY PLAYING:
ANANKE
HAVELUCIDDREAMZ
ACTIVITY: GRABBING EACH OTHER´S GENITALS
The longer a post gets, the more chance I have of not reading it at all. No patience.
That's my take on this.
That's pretty epic
Too lazy to quote all your things, but basically I agree, a little more effort could be taken to be more realistic with the way people (including myself) type on here. I didn't even realize how ridiculous saying EJ's break actions down etc sounded in that one post. I still feel like it wasn't completely off base but it was kind of an oversimplistic model of what its like to be an EJ, surely no EJ would identify with that description.
Although you'd have to admit algorithmic thinking does enable EJ's to somehow seemingly effortlessly take discrete facts and weave them together. I'd argue that this is actually the EJ's biggest strength in terms of how they think, the problem however is it leaves them vulnerable to certain tactics. Any unique attribute a person has that is a strength also has a complimentary weakness and its understanding this that allows people to be effective. If you understand this better than your opponent, then you have a tactical/strategic advantage over them. That's all I was saying with the sports thing -- I found it ridiculous that type can determine who wins and looses a game before it is played. Now on the surface, saying something as ridiculous as breaking actions down etc sounded ridiculous I agree, and I should probably be a bit more effective about the manner in which I communicate my ideas.
Last edited by male; 07-26-2010 at 09:32 PM.
In terms of thinking styles? Each temperament contains one representative of each of the four thinking styles.
I, my supervisor, my supervisee, and my super-ego have Dialectical-Algorithmic thinking. Only LSEs are EJ and use Dialectical-Algorithmic.
I mean, I find it amusing, because what you described about "weaving things together" reminds me of me, and is perhaps why people get so convinced that I'm an ILE because noticing commonalities is a matter of course in the way I think, when you were probably just using "algorithmic" in a very general, non-Gulenko sense, am I right?
well...you're over reacting and you're taking it like i mean that's all there is about SLE and IEI, which is nothing like what i said. i was focusing on one particular thing. we all have voids and we are all out of balance in some ways. did you happen to notice that at least one IEI kind of agreed with me? but, what is needed here is a link to that thread, which i cannot find, so there you go.
my response to your retort is that ILE has a void in the body, not SLE. but, take a chill pill sister, because it's really not all that. relax.
further still....if you think this socionics thing is all just so much light fluff you are seriously mistaken. people's weaknesses are real their imbalances totally salient and this only becomes more and more obvious as time goes by and the older we get. we do have serious weaknesses that cause major problems. all of us. the older we get the more serious these problems become because of how ingrained they can get. if you don't believe me, talk to some people over the age of 50 and they will tell you.
so when i say VOID and EXTREME. i'm totally serious yet totally humble, since i have my own serious problems. and so does everybody else.
what you are reacting to is that you think i'm picking on haveluciddreams which i am not but it's kind of cute that you feel compelled to defend him.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Mercutio, is that you?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
No, it's this guy:
Nikolai Bezroukov. Portraits of Open Source Pioneers. Ch.3 Prince Kropotkin of Software (Richard Stallman and War of Software Clones)
He's kind of "famous".
Sorry dear.Mental Masturbation Mode is ON.
CURRENTLY PLAYING:
ANANKE
HAVELUCIDDREAMZ
ACTIVITY: GRABBING EACH OTHER´S GENITALS
The longer a post gets, the more chance I have of not reading it at all. No patience.
Let me sift through the information for you.
Only read Ananke's information. I find that she is very perceptive about how functions not only apply in theory but also in real examples as well; she has a very good ability to judge, with good accuracy, the information, whether it relates to the topic and which functions are used when people write or speak.
It is an accurate analysis to say that ESTp's or Se in general, does see or hear things in the immediate reality; the color of something the shape of something or the look and hearing of something (generally all things related to the 5 major senses).
What Se has a difficult time doing is determining other's intentions. If someone says something a bit in the grey zone, they can't judge if the person is being honest or has good/bad intentions. INFp's are people people and can determine quickly if a person is honest or not because they use tests to determine this level of honesty in an individual.
INTp's use a roll card, keeping a close eye out for a balance in the relationship with others; if they give generously, they will hold relations with others who return the same amount of favor. By keeping a tally of favors, INTp's are able to advise their dual to either continue to care for certain individuals and continue to help them or to refrain from doing so, but SEE, being the Social of the two types, may continue with relations and not always listen to their dual, who is fine with this not happening.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Lol let him do what he pleases, you understand advice like this in this context has a double edge to it? Your essentially advising against reading my information... which I find offensive. I don't really find it offensive if you or said person decides you don't find my post informative or useful... but this seems to have a hint of promoting one viewpoint over another. Essentially you are allying yourself on one side over another and trying to spread this... further I'm guessing you don't realize this, so I'll give you a break. Usually it's in my nature to instigate a debate here and defend myself.... and it always comes back on me as being over-sensitive or as instigating conflict out of no where and they feel victimized.... so I figure this time I'll inform you exactly HOW what your doing carries a barb to it you may not realize. Personally right now I don't feel like making an issue over this, but realize once you throw an opinion out there like this your entering the debate arena and its fair game... that's the price for expressing opinions publicly, other people can express their opinions back at you.
Last edited by male; 07-27-2010 at 11:08 AM.
I'm not putting you and your info down. I just summed it all up into once sentence.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I, an Se-valuing Gamma, was raised in an Si-valuing Delta family. As a child, my world was settled and respectable and predictable. The most disturbing thing that would ever happen would be something like the dog throwing up. Basically, my parents were eagerly anticipating the time when they would be secure in their old age.
The extended family had one Beta cousin branch, which my parents hated, and one Alpha cousin branch, which my parents liked but which I, as a Gamma, thought was composed entirely of space aliens.
The only Gammas in the family were me and my widowed Czech grandmother, who was ESI. My LSE mother, her daughter, avoided her but my grandmother lived close enough to us so that I'd see her fairly often. She had about eight sisters who lived in Pennsylvania, and her closest sister, "Aunt Mildred", was probably an SEE. Aunt Mildred was frequently married and then either widowed or divorced. She seemed to consume men and she swore like a sailor, and when we'd go and visit them, my ESI grandmother and Aunt Mildred would talk and talk and just have the most riotous time, swearing and laughing and talking about men in terms which I thought might burn my ears. The Pennsylvania branch of the family seemed like the Jukes and the Kallikaks to me. As crude and as broke as they were, I liked them better than I liked my parents.
I learned Se phrases from my grandmother which I would never, ever in a million years hear from my Si parents.
I was reminded of this fact recently while watching a video from Russian State Television. While the Russian elite are losing the Russian-Ukrainian war in a spectacular way, they are telling each other (and their Russian viewer-subjects) that they will "set the world on fire. We'll put an end to the existence of the old world and start a new era, a new phase, headed by Russia."
Whenever my ESI grandmother heard someone inept who was boasting about how they'd do this, and they'd do that, she'd just say "They'll shit their pants and slide in it."
Se vs Si.
Wonderful anecdote, Adam. I've experienced something similar but with alphas vs betas - particularly in regards to how Si vs Se affects their Fe.
Both quadras focus more on the overall group atmosphere, but it's more harmonious for alphas. They don't seek to rock the boat so much and want everyone to feel comfortable. When they're joking, it's lighter in nature. By contrast, betas are often harsher. They don't mind testing others in games of Se strength to see who can be part of their group. They're not as likely to get upset over toes being stepped on - and more likely to fight back against being stepped on.
High school for me was all Se, to be cool you had to wear the trendiest stuff or beat someone up, or just be from a tough neighborhood and people will believe you could beat someone up. If you did either or both guys respected you and girls loved you. I'm from a place where when I tell people where I'm from they expect me to be a thug, so there was alot of Se expectation of me that I couldn't live up to, but I lied to get by, tried to play the part, sometimes I got tested by people but thank God it wasn't in front of a crowd. One kid swore I was a drug dealer when he first met me, and when he saw I wasn't he was disappointed, thought he had some badass friend. I've long since dropped that whole facade, but every now and again when I tell someone where I'm from they'll try and test me, I just don't give a shit anymore, I'm not whatever stereotype they have in their head.
I made friends with some bully kid in school, because I didn't want him to bully me. He tried to test me and ended up getting me in a situation where we both got arrested for shop lifting all because he said "I bet no one does this where you're from." I felt like I had to "prove" myself or some weird crap like that, anyway he cried when they put the cuffs on and almost tried to fight me at school because I told people lol.
In school we did this thing called "fresh cut", where if one of your friends got a new haircut you'd smack him in the back of the head as hard as you can and yell "fresh cut!", one kid did that to me and I smacked him back but I realized it was way to hard because he almost fell over, I felt bad because I didn't meant to smack him so hard, that was one of the first times I used force on a stranger like that and it made me feel like I didn't know how to control myself or something,.
I grew up with an Se lead cousin same age as me and was always compared to him, he probably was supervisor and being around him so early and so long probably caused me to develop an inferiority complex for awhile. Girls liked him more, guys respected him way more, most of my family even respected him more. He had way more guts to stand up to adults in our family than I did. My dad raised both of us and my dad used to take away our Nintendo if we didn't do our homework. I remember my SXE cousin saw where my dad put the Nintendo and just grabbed it and walked off and didn't care if my dad saw, I was in shock, because if my dad found out he would whoop our ass with the belt. He also got smacked in the face by our grandma and didn't bat an eye, he had tears in his eyes but he just stared her down and she couldn't do anything about it, the kid had guts, I would have been way too afraid. I mostly just followed the rules and broke them when the adults weren't looking.
My little brother is SLE and I couldn't tell when we were growing up, but now it's clear as day. And he had guts too, when my dad left the room to get the belt to whoop my behind, I'd stay put and dare not run because I knew it would be worse if he caught me in a corner somewhere, so I just took an ass whooping and cried myself to sleep. My brother would run, yell, and one time he jumped on the bed jumping over the belt like a jump rope lol. My little brother also would yell back at my dad, another thing he had the guts to do. I saw this as inconvenient, if my dad yelled at me I'd let him yell and just go do whatever I was gonna do when he wasn't looking. I saw the Si approach as convenient.
My SXE cousin's little brother is SEI, and me and him were more like brothers and my SLE little brother and SXE cousin where more like brothers, we all grew up together but later in life we migrated toward the person we related to more. Me and the SEI liked to draw, SLE brother and SXE cousin liked the play basketball. My grandma whose most likely ESE, LOVES my SEI cousin, he remembers every family member's birthday and even remembers to call and reminds other people to call. He always followed the rules, and when ever we did something risky as kids, like flip off the bed, or ride a skateboard for the first time, or slide down the stairs, he was super clumsy and prone to almost always getting hurt. He literally was the monkey that jumped on the bed, fell off and got a huge gash in his head. His SXE brother used to mess with him and push him to far, slap him in the face, jump on his back, but the SEI did not back down when he went over the edge. Tears in his eyes but he was like a raging hulk, that's why his SXE brother pushed him, he got a kick out of pushing his brother over the edge and seeing him rage out like that.
I remember one time me and my SXE cousin got in a serious fight, where I had to kick him out of my dad's house. My grandma found out and she did something that messed me up for years, she asked our little brothers who won the fight. I couldn't believe my grandma wasn't being impartial, ain't she supposed to love us equally, and tell us we shouldn't be fighting? But she was practically encouraging us to fight like that. Our little brothers feared SXE, so they said he won, but it was sloppy, there was no clear winner. But when they told her he won the fight she looked at him and I could see the respect grow in her eyes, I remember that day because that's the day I felt like you aren't respected in this world unless you've got Se, though at the time I didn't know what Se was, and that stayed with me for years.
Last edited by Lord Pixel; 07-29-2022 at 04:54 AM.
Nice story. I enjoyed reading this.
You wrote:
The thing is that Si is really unrelated to anything going on in the outside world. Even passive behaviours like giving in, letting things be, staying in the middle etc. is really just weak/unvalued Se. Si in itself is just as expanding as Se, but everything happens in the inner impressionistic world. It is seldom talked about and remains hidden.I saw this as inconvenient, if my dad yelled at me I'd let him yell and just go do whatever I was gonna do when he wasn't looking. I saw the Si approach as convenient.
But yes, the approach you mention is common for Si types. But it is not Si, but unvalued Se.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
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