Mirror differences: INFp-IEI and ENFj-EIE

[XoX]

The existence and meaning of subtypes is often discussed heatedly...

Let's assume for a moment that following subtypes exist:
ENFj (Ethical Subtype) & ENFj (Intuitive Subtype)
INFp (Ethical Subtype) & INFp (Intuitive Subtype)

How would you see these four types differing? For example in things like:
- Strenghts and weaknesses
- Visual identification
- Behavioral differences
- Attitude/motivation concerning materialistic ambitions
- PoLR
- Dual relations (dual seeking function & hidden agenda)
- etc.

What do you think in light of socionics theory? How about any real life examples?

[Creepy-]

- Behavioral differences
- Attitude/motivation concerning materialistic ambitions

In my experience, these two aspects are extremely different, (ok, I have a moral objection to everything he says - I think I've mentioned this before). Also, from things maizemedley has said, the motivations are especially different, so it might not be only the ENFj I know.

[XoX]

- Behavioral differences
- Attitude/motivation concerning materialistic ambitions

In my experience, these two aspects are extremely different, (ok, I have a moral objection to everything he says - I think I've mentioned this before). Also, from things maizemedley has said, the motivations are especially different, so it might not be only the ENFj I know.

How they are different exactly? I suppose ENFjs are more ENTj-like in their ambitions. Would INFps with ethical subtype be closer to ENFjs in this aspect than INFps with intuitive subtypes? And do you have any recollection where maizemedley has posted about this?

[Creepy-]

- Behavioral differences
- Attitude/motivation concerning materialistic ambitions

In my experience, these two aspects are extremely different, (ok, I have a moral objection to everything he says - I think I've mentioned this before). Also, from things maizemedley has said, the motivations are especially different, so it might not be only the ENFj I know.

How they are different exactly? I suppose ENFjs are more ENTj-like in their ambitions. Would INFps with ethical subtype be closer to ENFjs in this aspect than INFps with intuitive subtypes? And do you have any recollection where maizemedley has posted about this?

ENFjs are much more driven by "ethics" of some sort (they seem to have a judgement about pretty much everything). Actually, the ENFj I know is extremely judgemental and seems convinced that nearly everything is morally wrong and complains about our "fucked up world". Takes everything very seriously. Would make a good revolutionary.

(Someone else should post about ENFjs so we can have a more balanced idea of them)

I don't remember where maizemedley posted it, unfortunately.

If I am any indication of INFps, this is kind of anti-me. I don't take things very seriously, the world is actually an OK place, I am not so concerned with "the greater good" (I would rather read).

ENFjs seems pretty altruistic, too. Note my altruism score on the Big Five thread :wink:

[XoX]

ENFjs are much more driven by "ethics" of some sort (they seem to have a judgement about pretty much everything). Actually, the ENFj I know is extremely judgemental and seems convinced that nearly everything is morally wrong and complains about our "fucked up world". Takes everything very seriously. Would make a good revolutionary.

If I am any indication of INFps, this is kind of anti-me. I don't take things very seriously, the world is actually an OK place, I am not so concerned with "the greater good" (I would rather read).

ENFjs seems pretty altruistic, too. Note my altruism score on the Big Five thread :wink:

I'm pondering the idea whether I'm ENFj or INFp with strong ethical subtype. That is partly the motivation of this thread. Anyways I think you just described me pretty well in that I am judgemental and I see endless amounts of things to correct But the thing is I don't run around judging people like perhaps a hardcore ENFj would? And I'm not obsessed over ideals and people always come first and I'm willing to reconsider my ideals. I try to keep my judgments in my head and only bring them out when there is a realistic chance to actually change something. So I try to time them well and not waste my "ammo". And I am very concerned with "the greater good".

[Jonathan]

I think it's a great question. I've known INFps who sometimes seem very much like ENFjs, especially when in front of a group, or if they're in positions of authority.

My own observation is that an INp with ethical or logical subtype is still going to use the F or T as sort of the synthesis, end result, or packaging of the ideation involved in Ni, and that an ENj will be more likely to come up with decisions and structures that don't proceed from as much Ni analysis, making the ENj a little less inhibited-seeming...less careful, you might say. ENFjs are more likely to create the illusion of being like INTjs because Ti is in their dual block.

An ENj with intuitive subtype may actually have more things in common with ENp; the orientation of functions will clearly be Ni, but with a lot of similar behaviors to ENp.

Richard Feynman is an interesting example of someone who MBTI theorists see as ENTP and Socionists see as ENTj.

[Topaz]

Its interesting to compair types. Lets see. ENFJs are driven by goals. Usually they have 'their' people, the ones they have gathered whom they trust and enjoy, create and solve problems for and lecture. They like to lavish praise and attention to these people and expect lots of praise and attention in return. They will organize excursions, projects, poetry readings etc. They like big people, big ideas, and big places. They think of themselves as part of an elite class of nobles who bring special gifts to mankind. Dont stand in the way of their goodness or they will get demonic. The ENFJ is remarkable in a way that I am coming to understand more and more. They can bend reality. In their mind the world should be a certain way and they use all their theatrics and scheming to bring it about. Many are quite successfull at doing it too. They are a little bit crazy too. No, Im serious.
Now INFPs. They look so innocent and docile. They arent trying to lead anyone. Where would they lead them to? They ARE crazy and they dont mind letting people know it. That way you wont ask too much from them because " Look, I told you I'm crazy. Leave me alone". Their job is to ask and ask and ask. They ask about themselves and everyone else. They bring up concerns in the way of questions. Even if they get the answer they wont be satisfied. It incites more questions. Sometimes they run out of questions. "Whats wrong with me?" they ask. "Why dont I have anymore questions? Have I stopped growing? Is this it for me? What should I do now?......." INFP, chill.
They are not charging forth like the ENFJ Super Man/Woman. They are the lost Prince/ Princess locked in the castle or made to wander in the forest or sleep for a thousand years until the brave hero/ heroine finds them and kisses them (it doesnt stop there.. )
Ive seen ENFJs looking for disciples come across INFP wanderers. They form a tight team with the ENFJ leading his/her disciples into all manner of activities (some legal) and the INFP as the right hand man/woman adviser and confidant (flunky). Sometimes they are an inseperable team for a time. The aimless INFP takes delight in all the adventures the ENFJ get them into. The ENFJ feels the INFP gives his mission depth and credibility since he is so busy he can hardly slow down to build the kind of artistic integrity, aristocrazy oops, aristorcracy... that and INFP will like to portray.

There are lots of brands of ENFJs that Ive come to know. There is the Show Biz kind (very dramatic and flamboyant, will sing at any party, devoid of talent) Theres the 'Im just a normal person kind' ( insightful, repressed, compulsive) Theres the 'business' kind (desire to be rich, brown nose, watch your back, yes man) Theres the 'Dark' kind (stay away from these or be prepared to shave your head and join his cult) and then theres the 'highschool/ college professor (you'll have to read Shakespear and Street Car Named Desire and spend lots of time delving into sexual symbolism)
There are two kinds of INFPs. The Slutty ones and the Virtuous ones with fantasys of being ravaged Not nessecarily in that order. All of them are spacey, cute and artsy (or just good at faking it) Bring handcuffs.

[indigoroom]

so we all did a good job fooling them.

[Scrummy]

Topaz, that was pretty funny, but I was with you all the way up until here:

Their job is to ask and ask and ask. They ask about themselves and everyone else. They bring up concerns in the way of questions. Even if they get the answer they wont be satisfied. It incites more questions. Sometimes they run out of questions. "Whats wrong with me?" they ask. "Why dont I have anymore questions? Have I stopped growing? Is this it for me? What should I do now?......." INFP, chill.
They are not charging forth like the ENFJ Super Man/Woman. They are the lost Prince/ Princess locked in the castle or made to wander in the forest or sleep for a thousand years until the brave hero/ heroine finds them and kisses them (it doesnt stop there.. )
Ive seen ENFJs looking for disciples come across INFP wanderers. They form a tight team with the ENFJ leading his/her disciples into all manner of activities (some legal) and the INFP as the right hand man/woman adviser and confidant (flunky). Sometimes they are an inseperable team for a time. The aimless INFP takes delight in all the adventures the ENFJ get them into. The ENFJ feels the INFP gives his mission depth and credibility since he is so busy he can hardly slow down to build the kind of artistic integrity, aristocrazy oops, aristorcracy... that and INFP will like to portray.

This is probably the way an INFp will come accross to an ENFp, but I don't think the type really is as faceless as that.

It is true, the INFp hidden agenda is "to understand." The ENFj agenda is to "to be successful." And that's what I think you were hitting at. But hidden agenda is one of those concepts in Socionics that manifests itself in ways that seem to have nothing at all to do with the literal understanding. "To understand" will consequently become "to understand people by asking questions but also by making friends/getting totally smashed and emersed in the lifestyle of people your age or those younger and/or older/reading books/watching movies/listening to and making music/writing books/making movies/having sex... etc." And in addition, we not only strive to understand people, but places, images, ourselves, ideas, and the workings of the world. "To become successful" entails all of the aforementioned activities under the INFp hidden agenda.

In short, the hidden agenda means we all do the same exact shit, but we all do it for different reasons. And sometimes we have more reasons to do some shit than others.

And why is typing people so fucking difficult? It's because every type is capable of doing anything any other type can do, but with different motives. It is possible to know the activities a person partakes in, but impossible to know his motives. We're all people. We have basically the same genetic material to work with, pretty much the same bodies, the much of the time the same means and access to an end. INFps can indeed become leaders and can indeed embody a level of success that would make any ENTj or ENFj jealous. And ENFjs can become apathetic druggies, searching for themselves in some insane wild-goose chase. This is something that even Socionists will admit to. And this is why not a single one of us will fit perfectly into a box called "Personality type Such-and-Such (c) 2006."

Now, on ENFjs and INFps: If you ask most ENFjsand ENTjs what their motivation is, they will act in order to gain freedom <- that freedom can be emotional/financial/business... this is part of why these type will go primarily act on an impulse for power because power entails the freedom and autonomy from other. If you ask an INFp what makes him tick, most will tell you they just want to partake in what makes them happy, what gives them gratification, what gives them a reason to live <- now, unlike the ENTj/ENFj, he will not equate the ability to partake in such interests with financial freedom. For the INFp, taking time to become financially independent and powerful means taking a detour from what he really wants to do. This may seem illogical to some. Money maes everything so much the easier, and so much the better, right? (Surprisingly, ENFjs seem to understand this sentiment pretty well, though.) But it is completely logical to an INFp to bide his time working a 5-9 so that he can go play piano at the recital hall.

[Topaz]

Hey Baby,
Its good to see you again.
Mwahahhahahah Just as I had hoped. You INFPs would start to question yourselves as to wether you were truly transparent.
I was just having fun. Obviously I wasnt trying to be comprehensive or even serious. I just wanted to exagerate and underscore some points. I was thinking of my big sister and some other folks when I was writing it. My sister can keep wrapped in discussion for hours and hours. She's actually a substitute art teacher right now. She claims she has no real artistic ability but she really does and she is growing into the role quite well.
Anyway, thanks for the further insight. :wink:

[Scrummy]

Its good to see you again.

Good to see you, too. I've been here... just not on this particular corner of the forum, lol.

Mwahahhahahah Just as I had hoped. You INFPs would start to question yourselves as to wether you were truly transparent.

[indigoroom]

I was going to write in my first post that you're evil but then i was "well.. ENFps.. they are just evil?" and i forgave you everything Topaz, your experiment was transperant too so you should excercise a bit =)
That was a very good post, Baby especially the thing with the money although my understandings of power is not exactly the same I agree on a general level.

[Topaz]

I was going to write in my first post that you're evil but then i was "well.. ENFps.. they are just evil?" and i forgave you everything Topaz, your experiment was transperant too so you should excercise a bit =)

I suppose I was. *sigh* I just dont have the killer instinct

[Creepy-pokeball]

And why is typing people so fucking difficult? It's because every type is capable of doing anything any other type can do, but with different motives. It is possible to know the activities a person partakes in, but impossible to know his motives. We're all people. We have basically the same genetic material to work with, pretty much the same bodies, the much of the time the same means and access to an end. INFps can indeed become leaders and can indeed embody a level of success that would make any ENTj or ENFj jealous. And ENFjs can become apathetic druggies, searching for themselves in some insane wild-goose chase. This is something that even Socionists will admit to. And this is why not a single one of us will fit perfectly into a box called "Personality type Such-and-Such (c) 2006."

Daymn straight Bebeh, you totally nailed it =D

The drive to survive and thrive is so utterly fascinating.

[Scrummy]

"And why is typing people so fucking difficult? It's because every type is capable of doing anything any other type can do, but with different motives."

Go gay for Bay-bay!

I <3 Transigent.

[Kristiina]

My sister could be either. How do I differentiate between the types?

I wouldn't say that she has PoLR, but she does get pissed off when her theory can't be proven. (Almost everyone would when there is an INTp who is proving them wrong). She could have PoLR, but maybe I'm just seeing something that isn't really there.

She seems extroverted according to Estonian standards, but it could be .
She seems judging, but I wouldn't bet my life on that.

[Expat]

Assuming she's really either ENFj or INFp, answer me please these questions.

1) I guess she's a very charming person. But is her charm more of the mode "I'm such a confident and pleasant person" or does she tend to get often into "I'm so helpless, you should want to take care of me" mode?

2) Does she tend to to behave a bit like the stereotypical INTp "critic" and say "well this still needs to be done" "this isn't perfect yet" etc or is she more like "everything's going in the right direction" "we'll make it" kind of person?

[Kristiina]

I can't link the pictures, but here they are: http://www.rate.ee/userinfo.php?id=633543

1) she's more of a "I'm such a confident and pleasant person". She's openly friendly and always considerate of others. She somehow radiates it. She has tons of stories about how she was just waiting for the bus and some old person came to talk to her about random things.

2) She can have both attitudes, depending on the situation. She's always worried about schoolwork. She has the A-student syndrome... "Oh, I'm going to do so badly at that exam!" and later gets an A. But generally she thinks she'll succeed in life.

[Joy]

INFp!!!

[Kristiina]

INFp!!!

I know she V.I.'es as INFp. But she's really careful and pretty much a planner. I really can't see an INFp in her behavior. Besides, I think she looks more introverted on the pictures than normal.

[Expat]

Is she more likely to have longer-term plans and focus on them, or does she focus more on short-term events and plans?

[Kristiina]

Is she more likely to have longer-term plans and focus on them, or does she focus more on short-term events and plans?

I asked her - first instinct: "short term plans". She also thinks of long-term plans a lot, but she tends to have all of her time planned. She's not the kind of person, who would suddenly get up and say, "let's go to the movie theatre today." She might get a plan to see a movie a few days later, but she's not impulsive.

[Expat]

Well, taking the information you gave at face value, and assuming that ENFj and INFp are really the only possibilities, the conclusion is that she's INFp intuitive subtype.

I used Reinin dichotomies. Positive/Negative didn't help, which suggests that either as ENFj or INFp she'd be an intuitive subtype where most dichotomies merge and blur, and so become of little value.

On the other hand, precisely at that point the Strategy vs Tactics dichotomy should become the clearest, and this is confirmed by the certainty with which she replied: tactics, so INFp.

As an intuitive subtype, she'd focus relatively more on her and therefore a bit more on her , so making her PoLR less obvious. It would also lessen the focus on her role function further accounting for your confusion.

It would also put her at a peak of Decisiveness, which may be what you mistook for judging.

[Expat]

Something else.

If she was ENFj intuitive subtype, the effect on her role function and PoLR would be the opposite - - she'd have even less focus on her PoLR and more on the role function, so it should be more obvious which is which.

So, based on that information, everything fits quite nicely for INFp intuitive subtype.

[Kristiina]

It seems that INFp does make sense. It would also explain the relationship between her and an ISTj friend. It's not bad, but I don't really see the duality. I guess it's not there.

Expat, I like the way you made it sound logical why I would mix her up with an ENFj. Because she gave me little reason to doubt that typing. Except for the vs quarrels with the INTp, which seemed to have more effect on her than Erkki.

[Ave]

What do you think they are?

Its possible Im neither as Im considering several types now(dont ask, lol) but maybe this will help sort things out, or maybe not, Im just wondering about the two types, in any case.

[Expat]

The most obvious differences are in their temperament, their behavior; since they are mirrors, in terms of quadra values, functions and even relatonships it becomes tricky.

INFps are more relaxed, not proactive, as if they wished someone would help them get moving to do something. ENFjs are more restless, proactive, hectic.

In behavior traits, following dichotomies.

INFps are merry, compliant and emotion-creating. That means that they will usually be very easy-going when discussing ideas, in a positive emotional atmosphere.

ENFjs are merry, obstinate and construct-creating. That means that it's easier to reach a point where the ENFj cares a lot about ideas and will be unwilling to concede points. Being construct-creating, the ENFj is also more likely to display impatience and annoyance when that happens.

[Kristiina]

Rough generalizations. Take it with a pinch of salt.

An ENFj enters the room and expects everyone to have adapted to her mood 5 minutes later. If the ENFj isn't feeling good/happy then she'll act really introverted ti avoid ruining everyone's mood. Some love her, some hate her. There isn't much middle ground. Some think she's selfish, most don't really understand her. Can seem moody because she's EJ (opinionated and sometimes in a high-energy mode) and Fe-dominant (every reaction seems 2 times more emotional than would be a normal).

An INFp enters the room and expects to be on the same level as everyone else 5 minutes later. Very sensitive to the moods of others, accepts and magnifies the emotions with preference to the positive emotions. If people are neutral, she magnifies the small positive things. Very attentive to the moods of others. Usually loved and seen as the nice girl. Even people who don't know her, think she's nice and friendly.

[XoX]

To Kristiina and Expat:
How would you see ENTj and INTp entering the room differ from INFp and ENFj? Not trying to change the subject of topic just that now that we have INFp and ENFj behavioral descriptions it would serve some purpose to have similar short descriptions of INTp and ENTj too (to see the main differences or something). Kristiina should be expert on INTp and Expat on ENTj I suppose.

[Expat]

I think that what Kristiina wrote is good.

@XoX: the INTp couldn't care less about people's moods, much less expects them to adapt their moods to the INTp's or vice-versa. The ENTj will notice individual people's moods and perhaps be concerned, but not about the general mood of the room. Neither the INTp nor the ENTj will have much influence on that.

[ScarlettLux]

Haha Kriistina ..

I'd have to disagree with the INFp part. Not many think I'm too nice and friendly even though I'm an Fe subtype ... I have gotten complaints of being "cold" < - even though I don't mean it intentionally or even notice it!

The other stuff about reception to emotions and adapting to them is very good and true though, I commend ya =)

I really would like to take away that stereotype (can't believe it still exists) of INFps being sweet, gentle and sugary. BLEGH. We're very idealistic and romantic yes, but also extremely melodramatic which can annoy the shit out of other people, especially those not in Beta.

The major differences I see between me and one of my best friends (ENFj) is that she is much livelier than me, hyper all the time and enjoys cleaning, organization, etc. More conscientous in some ways too. She is even more melodramatic outwardly than me too -- but I suppose inwardly, we are similar in that respect, its that she's more comfortable expressing her Fe than me and does so more often.

[Animal]

I really would like to take away that stereotype (can't believe it still exists) of INFps being sweet, gentle and sugary. BLEGH. We're very idealistic and romantic yes, but also extremely melodramatic which can annoy the shit out of other people, especially those not in Beta.

I have never considered myself (or most of the INFps I've known) "melodramatic" by any stretch. We are, technically a "Dramatic" type, but histrionics tend to be the exception rather than the rule IME. But then... maybe I've just met really chill INFps all my life.

My observations:

INFps are less likely to come off as "above it." ENFjs, in my experience, have tended to handle situations and dynamics from a more aloof position, almost as if the nitty, gritty details are not their sphere.

ENFjs tend to dress more conservatively and generally better than INFps on the whole; in younger ENFjs, they're more likely considered "preppy." INFps generally have two modes of dress - either rather poorly (ripped jeans, old t-shirt that doesn't quite fit right, shoes that may fall apart any second) or strikingly well (Saville Row, funky chic, etc.). There isn't as much variation in ENFj dress.

I've noticed two modes of speech in these types. Ni-mode, and Fe-mode. Ni-mode is more common in INFps - quieter, relaxed, more ambling and reflective tone of voice. Fe-mode is more common among ENFjs - better projected voice, more exciting cadences, measured and deliberate intonation. Both types exhibit both modes, but with INFps the Fe-mode is the exception and not the rule, and with ENFjs the Ni-mode is more likely the exception. (INTps and ENTjs exhibit a similar phenomenon, but they switch between the aforementioned Ni-mode, and a Te-mode <- best described as confident, persuasive, perhaps slightly agressive to those not accustomed to it.)

INFps are more likely to have artistic aspirations and hobbies. ENFjs are more likely to harbor an interest in history, environmental sciences, politics, and religion. Of course, there are plenty of INFps interested in those things, too and plenty of artistic ENFjs.

INFps tend to be better cooks, lol.

Thassal I gots.

[ScarlettLux]

I really would like to take away that stereotype (can't believe it still exists) of INFps being sweet, gentle and sugary. BLEGH. We're very idealistic and romantic yes, but also extremely melodramatic which can annoy the shit out of other people, especially those not in Beta.

I have never considered myself (or most of the INFps I've known) "melodramatic" by any stretch. We are, technically a "Dramatic" type, but histrionics tend to be the exception rather than the rule IME. But then... maybe I've just met really chill INFps all my life.

My observations:

INFps are less likely to come off as "above it." ENFjs, in my experience, have tended to handle situations and dynamics from a more aloof position, almost as if the nitty, gritty details are not their sphere.

ENFjs tend to dress more conservatively and generally better than INFps on the whole; in younger ENFjs, they're more likely considered "preppy." INFps generally have two modes of dress - either rather poorly (ripped jeans, old t-shirt that doesn't quite fit right, shoes that may fall apart any second) or strikingly well (Saville Row, funky chic, etc.). There isn't as much variation in ENFj dress.

I've noticed two modes of speech in these types. Ni-mode, and Fe-mode. Ni-mode is more common in INFps - quieter, relaxed, more ambling and reflective tone of voice. Fe-mode is more common among ENFjs - better projected voice, more exciting cadences, measured and deliberate intonation. Both types exhibit both modes, but with INFps the Fe-mode is the exception and not the rule, and with ENFjs the Ni-mode is more likely the exception. (INTps and ENTjs exhibit a similar phenomenon, but they switch between the aforementioned Ni-mode, and a Te-mode <- best described as confident, persuasive, perhaps slightly agressive to those not accustomed to it.)

INFps are more likely to have artistic aspirations and hobbies. ENFjs are more likely to harbor an interest in history, environmental sciences, politics, and religion. Of course, there are plenty of INFps interested in those things, too and plenty of artistic ENFjs.

INFps tend to be better cooks, lol.

Thassal I gots.

Wow, we see INFps differently. Besides the dress thing for INFps, there is nothing here that I wouldn't disagree with based on observations of myself and other INFps. Also I don't think ENFjs are conservative in dress.. they're actually likelier to be more flamboyant and come off as if they don't really know HOW to match. Sometimes they do, but other times they can put together really insane combos.. and I just go "..." hahaha! Like my friend cut up her t-shirt from the back in weird formations and actually thought it looked cool. It did not.

Me though, I *do* know how to dress. I am quite interested in fashion and whatnot and it seems I have an eye for correct combinations and I always manage to come off as elegant and stylish (say people) I never go overboard with anything though, but I always add in a touch of something special.

However, I think what you're describing is more biased towards Ni subtype and me being an Fe can not relate besides when you separate the two and describe both (which is very good, especially the different communication styles!)

Meh to the interest thing. I don't really see that.

Nah, INFps are NOT better cooks.

[Animal]

Wow, we see INFps differently.

Indeed.

Also I don't think ENFjs are conservative in dress.. they're actually likelier to be more flamboyant and come off as if they don't really know HOW to match. Sometimes they do, but other times they can put together really insane combos.. and I just go "..." hahaha! Like my friend cut up her t-shirt from the back in weird formations and actually thought it looked cool. It did not.

Hmmm... the ENFjs I know dress in pretty nondescript, cookie-cutter styles. One guy I know basically dresses himself pretty much verbatim off the mannequins at Hollister. Then again, most of the ENFjs I know I have met in business/scholastic settings as opposed to casual, which is bound to throw my sample slightly off.

Me though, I *do* know how to dress. I am quite interested in fashion and whatnot and it seems I have an eye for correct combinations and I always manage to come off as elegant and stylish (say people) I never go overboard with anything though, but I always add in a touch of something special.

I, on the other hand, could not give two shits about fashion, but I realize this is not a trait I share with most INFps and I inadvertly come off as foppish without actually trying.

However, I think what you're describing is more biased towards Ni subtype and me being an Fe can not relate

Perhaps.

[discourse]

This topic made to think.

Well, ENFjs are dramatic. They like to exaggerate and overplay their emotions. They seek for attention. She enters the room. Sits quietly for a while. Soon notices something what gets her eye. Her eyes will be burning devilisiously. And she will start expressing her emotions. Strongly. Not caring about others. Can speak so loud to get her attention, that she screams. Does everithing to be in the center of the room. Her motions are out of shape. May be carried away so much that she messes up her hair when she swirls her head. Looks manic.

INFps are quiet. Perhaps due to the introversion, they like to express their feelings, ideas and sympahtyes in the smaller circle of friends. ENFjs have dark emotions. INFps have light and friendly emotions. They try to smoothen the bad mood of others. Make jokes. INFps like to be alone a lot. Some of them are shy and don't have courage to become friends with others, though she wishes to be liked by him. INFps creative Fe expresses through the different councils what she gives, when she likes to give advice how to solve personal problems. ISFps like to do the same- this makes those two types similar.

[XoX]

I think that what Kristiina wrote is good.

@XoX: the INTp couldn't care less about people's moods, much less expects them to adapt their moods to the INTp's or vice-versa. The ENTj will notice individual people's moods and perhaps be concerned, but not about the general mood of the room. Neither the INTp nor the ENTj will have much influence on that.

Ok thanks. I will look into that. I'm not 100% sure if you can be that strict i.e. that INTps don't care a bit and ENTj's have very little influence on the moods of others. I mean for example you have had some influence on people's moods here. This is not real life though but anyways. Well, I have to show these around and see what comes up. They are compact enough to be useful to people not too familiar with socionics And the general principle they show is probably correct i.e. ENFjs affect moods, INFps adapt to moods, INTp are relatively detached from moods, ENTjs are well..I don't know what they are...aware of the moods but usually not too concerned about them or too interested in affecting them. However I would think their awareness of the mood and sensitive role function makes ENTjs not want to unnecessarily spoil the mood of others etc.

[Expat]

Ok thanks. I will look into that. I'm not 100% sure if you can be that strict i.e. that INTps don't care a bit and ENTj's have very little influence on the moods of others.

That was meant in relation to ENFjs and INFps, of course it's not that strict.

I mean for example you have had some influence on people's moods here.

You mean by bringing hem down?

No doubt, but that is not my main concern one way or the other.

However I would think their awareness of the mood and sensitive role function makes ENTjs not want to unnecessarily spoil the mood of others etc.

Sure. But the key word is "unnecessarily". I take no pleasure from spoiling other people's moods, and I try to avoid it, but I won't refrain from making a point during a discussion because of that.

[XoX]

I mean for example you have had some influence on people's moods here.

You mean by bringing hem down?

No doubt, but that is not my main concern one way or the other.

Lol. Are we a little sensitive on the role function again? I'm slowly buying into your theory that role function can be more sensitive in a way than PoLR. And you can have positive effect on the mood too if that makes you feel any better (heh) But if you are extremely argumentative then I guess it is more likely to have a negative effect than positive. Except of course for the people who think your arguments have helped them to understand something new and relevant.

Just to analyze a bit more...lol...I think you can lift mood considerably by occasionally showing an empathic side of yours. It is such a contrast to the typical attitude that it works miracles. Although the effect is a bit temporary of course. It is one form of "hot cold treatment". I think showing empathy every now and then increases your influence among most people. Lol, I'm sure you are bored by now so I stop here

However I would think their awareness of the mood and sensitive role function makes ENTjs not want to unnecessarily spoil the mood of others etc.

Sure. But the key word is "unnecessarily". I take no pleasure from spoiling other people's moods, and I try to avoid it, but I won't refrain from making a point during a discussion because of that.

I don't think anyone thinks you spoil anything on purpose.

But to the actual issue...We went through the ENFj/INFp/INTp/ENTj differences at home and it would seem I am a mix of ENFj and INFp who tends to fall more into INFp side. I'm less adaptive than the INFp but still more likely to adapt than to proactively and consistently affect other's moods. Occasionally I can behave like an INTp in the above description does but that is clearly an exception and I'm probably doing it on purpose because I'm pissed of or something and consciously disregard the moods of other people (which I regret later).

Again my wife identifies with the ENTj. I think she actually is ENTj. Either her aesthetics abilities are not as good as she thinks or the Si = aesthetics
"law" needs some readjusting.

I liked this thread. It was useful

[Expat]

Scarlettlux and occasionally others have doubts about whether they are ENFj or INFp (which also happens between other mirror types). So if the temperament doesn't help, here's one tip.

Who seems like a more likely supervisee? INTp or ESFj?
Who seems like a more likely supervisor? ISFp or ENTj?

[ScarlettLux]

Hmm. I find that many ESFjs say they are exceedingly intimidated by me, to the point of where they start hating me because they just think I'm "evil" in some way.. not even kidding. That's an extreme though, but most ESFjs I meet are very wary of me. The supervision profile fits very well.

INTps on the other hand I also see myself supervising. I know a few of them and I constantly feel like my gets me nowhere with them, but unlike ESFjs who tend to dislike me and be scared, the INTps I know don't really hold a grudge or feel that supervision from me. It's more like we find each other boring from both sides of the party - comparative fits well.

I don't have any experience with ENTjs IRL at all. ISFps I tend to get along with, the couple that I know.

I should probably just accept I am an INFp because based on intertype relations, I am more of an INFp.. except for the fact that I get along with Ti leading Ego types more than ExTps.