Billy Martin

[Rocky]

I'm curious as to what you guys would say about the following guy.


To start, he can be very argumentive. When he does this, he can get firey and agressive. It's not uncommon for him to start kicking or hitting things when this happens. He generally doesn't show emotion, but when you spark the right thing, it sets him off and he gets verbally (even physically) confrontantional. He can be somewhat contentious, but he's not even a very big guy. He will start to pick fights with people bigger than him, and he does this as sort of a "test" to see what kind of reaction he can get.

He can also get into trouble with his drinking. He may go out to bars, and not know when to stop. This of course can lead to further problems with his temper.

One good quality is that he always seems to know what to do and where to go. He has a habit of ending up in the right place with good timing when others look lost. He can also seem calm when pressure is put on and never gets distracted when he is in a concentrated mode.


So from a brief discription like this, can you already tell the person's type?

[tcaudilllg]

That could be anybody.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Rocky]

Typing someone off a paragraph or two is pretty impossible though, you are right...

My point is that it may be possible to have a really good idea of someone's type based on only a few distinctive facts.

BTW Transigent, as a sidenote, I have noticed that several of people on here (including you) have an *interesting* perspective of ISTJs. They seem to be one of the most misunderstood types on this board. I have long thought that most of the ISTJs people have been describing are more likely ISTPs. ISTJs aren't as aggresive as the TiSe might lead you to believe; the are cautious and self-controlled for the most part. \


And yes, this is a real person. I was describing a celebrity, and I will tell you who it is after I see more guesses.

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Slacker]

I'm going to vote ENTj.

[Cone]

I'm going to vote ENTj.

I like that vote.

But just for variety, I will vote ESTj.

[FDG]

I could see ENTj, yeah.

And I agree with Transigent's perispective on ISTj. Sensory sub ISTj, especially when young, are not the "self controlled" type that is usually found in adult ISTj. I know that my ISTj dad was like that as well.

[Sarah]

And yes, this is a real person. I was describing a celebrity, and I will tell you who it is after I see more guesses.

If he's a celebrity, doesn't that make him ENTp regardless?

[Phaedrus]

After having read the first two sentences in your description I thought: He isn't really thinking of an INTp, is he? The third sentence put some doubt into my immeadiate reaction, and the talk about drinking problems put even more. But the rest of the description showed more similarities, so I got the overall impression of a thinking perceiving type, probably introverted too, and I thought that you might be thinking of an ISTp (SLI).

There is a problem, though. The ISTp is probably the one single type that I have the vaguest picture of of all the sixteen types. I have had trouble finding real life examples of ISTps that I can be sure really are ISTps. I think that I know one or two persons who I strongly suspect are ISTps, but I have no final proof of that yet. So, I am not too confident in my typing of your mysterious guy, Rocky.

I would never think of an ISTj (LSI), but there was one sentence in your description that made me think of an ENTj. And when I read the whole description again, maybe an ENTj is not impossible anyway. It could, in a slightly screwed sense, describe several traits of some real life ENTjs I know. If that is true, the description is probably either too brief, or my understanding of ISTps is misleading and inaccurate, and it really is a description of an ENTj.

But when you start doubting your impressions like this, it's easy to have more and more doubts. The only things I think that I "know" for sure is that he is not an F type, and he is not an ISTj or an ESTj, and I don't think he is an INTj.

[Expat]

I can also see ENTj, simply because I can't see any other that fits better.

I also thought of ESTj, but he doesn't seem to have a PoLR.

And Rocky, I fully agree that it's possible to type people from a brief description - a perceptive one, of course.

[implied]

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Creepy-]

It sounds like how might secretly want to be

[Topaz]

This description is of a very unhealthy, disturbed person. No type that is healthy would demonstrate those qualities. Therefore the problem is seeing through the psychosis. Clearly this persons coping mechanisms when stressed seem to point to . eh Transigent you havent made any movies lately have you?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Topaz]

The only problem I have with this person being ENTJ is that underneath all the big talk ENTJs can be quite wimpy. They would rather find a clever way out of a confrontation that might come to violence. However, ENTJ and ENFJs do like to test people and might do things to produce what they feel is a 'true' response. Actually this reminds me of the eneagram 6 type which is a fear based person that provokes others out of fear. I also have known at leat two INTJs that do this too.

[Rocky]

OK, interesting responses. I thought that a lot of what I wrote would point towards Te behavior.


The description was of Billy Martin. He was an ISTP.

I can actually see how the first paragraph could even be ENTJ as well. For example, Sweat Lou Pinella, who was a "pupil" of Martin, is known for acting this way while arguing (and I have suspected him of being ENTJ).

However, I thought this part would make people think more of Si;

"He will start to pick fights with people bigger than him, and he does this as sort of a "test" to see what kind of reaction he can get."

This has something to do with Si in the way that Carl Jung described it. The "unrelatedness" to the objects causes Si to test out the waters with varying levels of pressure.


Umm... sorry if it sounded psychotic.

[Topaz]

Umm... sorry if it sounded psychotic.

I dunno, what do you call someone who blows up, gets drunk and picks fights? Somethings wrong with that. Its not healthy. I know of places where they would bust a cap on you in a minute
Well at least it isnt you, right? :wink: Which just shows ta go ya that not all ISTPs are alike.

[Topaz]

Good Lord! I just pulled up some picks of Billy! He looks just like a friend of mine. I was thinking my friend could be ISTP but I hadnt given it that much thought. Certainly his son is, who is also a friend of mine. Ive gone camping with their family for the last three years and am going again in August. This requires further investigation.

[Rocky]

Which just shows ta go ya that not all ISTPs are alike.

Very true. I wouldn't want to be confused with every ISTP. There are some ISTPs who are completely quite and unassuming (hell, my new sig is describing one of them), and then there are other ISTPs who are extremely aggresive. And then there are ISTPs who are slightly different from both of those kinds. No one said there were only 16 personalities, only 16 psychological types. Anyway...

[Rocky]

Good Lord! I just pulled up some picks of Billy! He looks just like a friend of mine. I was thinking my friend could be ISTP but I hadnt given it that much thought. Certainly his son is, who is also a friend of mine. Ive gone camping with their family for the last three years and am going again in August. This requires further investigation.

... wait, just to clarify, you are talking about the right Billy Martin?

Here's the one I was talking about:

[Topaz]

Good Lord! I just pulled up some picks of Billy! He looks just like a friend of mine. I was thinking my friend could be ISTP but I hadnt given it that much thought. Certainly his son is, who is also a friend of mine. Ive gone camping with their family for the last three years and am going again in August. This requires further investigation.

... wait, just to clarify, you are talking about the right Billy Martin?

Here's the one I was talking about:

I should have known. The first one I got to was this Billy Maritn:
http://www.cmgworldwide.com/baseball/martin/bio.html He was known for a fiery temper. The photos of him espcially the oldest one looks like my friend. By the way is that your signed baseball card?

[Slacker]

The part in the first paragraph that *didn't* sound ENTj to me was "he rarely shows emotion, but . . ."

I've only once seen my husband try to pick a fight (like physically) with someone, but then he was in his mid to late 20s when I got him so maybe he did it when he was younger and had outgrown it by the time I met him. I've seen him argue and pick at people verbally just to see how they react. I've been on the receiving side of that, come to think of it. Frequently.

[Rocky]

Good Lord! I just pulled up some picks of Billy! He looks just like a friend of mine. I was thinking my friend could be ISTP but I hadnt given it that much thought. Certainly his son is, who is also a friend of mine. Ive gone camping with their family for the last three years and am going again in August. This requires further investigation.

... wait, just to clarify, you are talking about the right Billy Martin?

Here's the one I was talking about:

I should have known. The first one I got to was this Billy Maritn:
http://www.cmgworldwide.com/baseball/martin/bio.html He was known for a fiery temper.

That's good... because that's the same guy I was talking about.

The photos of him espcially the oldest one looks like my friend. By the way is that your signed baseball card?

ummm... no.. google....

[Topaz]

He looks different with a mustache and glasses. the guy I know lost all his hair because of alopecia. He is very good with his hands and likes to camp and get away from people although he is quite loved and people admire him and listen to his practical wisdom which is always tinged with crusty humor. He shows very good sense and is quite responsible. His son is very humorous but is sometimes impudent, and crass. Its easy to see through this defense mechanism so no one takes him too serious. I was quite impressed by the sons handiwork. He usually works on restoring old volkswagen bugs and such, but when he had an opportunity to move into his own place he traded some of his rent for renovations and turned a dump into a great looking place. He also loves to brag about his cooking which is quite good but not worthy of all that bragging.

[implied]

[FDG]

However, ENTJ and ENFJs do like to test people and might do things to produce what they feel is a 'true' response.

Every type does this.

[implied]