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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Classic Alpha-Gamma conflict, with Deltas stuck in the middle.

    Jake - SEI-Si 9w8 so/sp
    Neytiri - SLI-Si 8w7 sx/so
    Etukan - LSE-Te 8w9 sp/so
    Moat - EII-Fi 1w2 sx/sp
    Tsu'Tey - LSE-Si 3w2 so/sp
    Colonel Quaritch- SEE-Se 8w7 sx/so
    Parker - LIE-Ni 3w4 sp/so
    Dr. Grace - ILE-Ti 6w5 sx/sp
    Norm - ILE-Ne 6w7 so/sx
    Trudy - SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/so

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    jughead's Avatar
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    They forgot to give the natives nasty disease blankets.

    I though overall the movie was dumb, but not unlikely to happen.
    The "gammas" weren't smart enough to just build a efficient fucking extractor machine and drill from the side without being total assholes. This shits worth way more than oil...they can afford some safety measures too unlike BP.
    Is this the devalued Ne? And also the realization that the fricking tree is the planet and the uniqueness of it, is priceless and the tech you could make from studying the peoples connection is worth whole lot more than short sighted ore drilling?

    Explain some of your typings

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Just generalized impressions. They are movie characters, after all.

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    jughead's Avatar
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    Yeah this movie sucked and was a shitty tech demo. Like the new star wars giving rise to lord of the rings.
    I'm guessing by trailers of pocohontas that it had better character development and acting.
    People love there crappy tech demo while getting fat and gross.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    The Skypeople might be Betas...especially how they call foreigners "insane"

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    The only typings I don't agree with, not cause thier wrong just cause I need to see the movie again before I can commit to anything is Jake and Neytiri. If I recall correctly Jake seemed a little Serious for SEI, but that could just be Sam Worthington. That guy is a blank slate, no matter what he does the only thing you see on his face is what you put there.
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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    The only typings I don't agree with, not cause thier wrong just cause I need to see the movie again before I can commit to anything is Jake and Neytiri. If I recall correctly Jake seemed a little Serious for SEI, but that could just be Sam Worthington.
    Well he's a marine. But for a marine, he's a little flimsy; down-to-earth, but a bit slow on the uptake. Hence Te PoLR.

    That guy is a blank slate, no matter what he does the only thing you see on his face is what you put there.
    Hence Si sub, E9.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Upon further reflection the Skypeople are clearly Deltas.

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    jughead's Avatar
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    "That guy is a blank slate, no matter what he does the only thing you see on his face is what you put there. "
    Why would Si have this? There is something I'm missing here. Isn't worthington the person typed as LSI? Like lance armstrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Classic Alpha-Gamma conflict...
    If you call it "classic" it must have been a subject in many other films too. Do you know any? Could you explain which interests of both quadras are typically conflicting? (I didn't watch the film, though. I heard it wasn't that good.)
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    Neytiri seemed more 4 than 8, sx dominant works.

    8's are too concerned with being fearful of other people, needing power, and this kind of mentality like life is tough and only the strong survive, there is no place for weakness in life. At best they are magnanimous leaders and strong protects, at worse they are paranoid sociopaths that harm others out of fear that another will hurt or exploit them.

    If Neytiri was an 8 she probably would have killed jake along with the animals and probably would have not gone onto a monologue about how it was tragic to kill the animals. An 8 would have just been like "thats life, the strong survive" or something.

    Neytiri seemed more 4 because she serves a special purpose in the tribe having a relationship with jake and being the daughter of the certain important tribe members. She stands out with alot of charisma in a 4 way, she obviously capitivates that need to be special and have something unique about her. She is also melancholy like a 4 when her tribe dies and she kills the animals, feeling empathy in overdrive. Further she tends to be attracted to jake, because he is new and different, once again reinforcing the eye 4's have for the unique/special/different.

    Any illusion of 8ness probably comes from the more visceral tribal vibe of the Navi culture.

    An eight is that colonel guy, and arguably the mohak navi. The colonel is a better example of an 8 though.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    If you call it "classic" it must have been a subject in many other films too. Do you know any? Could you explain which interests of both quadras are typically conflicting? (I didn't watch the film, though. I heard it wasn't that good.)
    My meaning was closer to "archetypal," rather than "classic" in the traditional sense. However I would sincerely doubt that this is the only example of such an exchange of values in film: the obvious conflict is that of immediate benefit given by available, known resources, with actions dictated by established standards (Se+Te/Fi) vs. the undeveloped potential of naturally occurring phenomena, with actions dictated by compassion (Ne/Si+Fe).

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    ._. Aiss's Avatar
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    Actually, watching the movie I felt like there wasn't a single Gamma character in it. I don't see the archetype, either (besides oversimplistic Gamma = money with total disregard for Fi-valuing).

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    The Looks stanprollyright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    If you call it "classic" it must have been a subject in many other films too. Do you know any? Could you explain which interests of both quadras are typically conflicting? (I didn't watch the film, though. I heard it wasn't that good.)
    Pocahontas
    Dances with Wolves
    Plenty of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Since you apparently didn't really read my post...

    When I say he's a "blank slate," I'm not speaking merely of his facial expressions, but also of the manner in which he easily falls into whatever role he is thrust into and doesn't seem to really have any particular motivations of his own. This is typical of E9s.
    I assumed since you used Joe's terminology you were referring to his post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Actually, watching the movie I felt like there wasn't a single Gamma character in it. I don't see the archetype, either (besides oversimplistic Gamma = money with total disregard for Fi-valuing).
    Fi seems to take a backseat to Te ans Se surely, but the humans did try to get their unobtanium (dumbest name for a mineral ever) by diplomatic means and by building schools and whatnot.

    I basically agree with Gilly that the humans = Gamma and some Beta, Na'vi = Delta, Jake and the scientists = Alpha. The Gammas try to first convert, then overtake the Deltas, who are instead led into a new Alpha order.
    Stan is not my real name.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    Actually, watching the movie I felt like there wasn't a single Gamma character in it. I don't see the archetype, either (besides oversimplistic Gamma = money with total disregard for Fi-valuing).
    Well you might dislike them because they are caricatures made by an Alpha, just like I laugh at oversimplification of Beta villains, but they are Gammas. Raw Se+Te.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    The only archetypal Beta in the movie is Trudy, the pilot, played by Michelle Rodriguez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well you might dislike them because they are caricatures made by an Alpha, just like I laugh at oversimplification of Beta villains, but they are Gammas. Raw Se+Te.
    That's the point, I didn't see any Gamma values, including Te... most of what happened on people's side seemed demonstrative / useless. I don't have a problem with destruction as such - and villains happen too - but it was like, let's take a hammer and start waving around, perhaps we'll even smash something, who cares if it's ourselves. It was like these guys just did it for adrenaline, it totally failed in showing cold/unemotional side of the corporation it was probably meant to. I see stan's point about negotiating, it results in some inconsistency of the characters... hardly unexpected with lack of plot and such, but still, I can't see these values ._.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Well you might dislike them because they are caricatures made by an Alpha, just like I laugh at oversimplification of Beta villains, but they are Gammas. Raw Se+Te.
    If that's the case, what's my excuse for hating the one-dimensional characters of the film?
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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    ...the obvious conflict is that of immediate benefit given by available, known resources, with actions dictated by established standards (Se+Te/Fi) vs. the undeveloped potential of naturally occurring phenomena, with actions dictated by compassion (Ne/Si+Fe).
    Thanks for your explanation. Of course, this isn't the only example for sure. Different values always create conflict, and this is probably most striking if there are opposing quadras involved. Films generally need conflict, so you'll often find those situations.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plynex View Post
    Thanks for your explanation. Of course, this isn't the only example for sure. Different values always create conflict, and this is probably most striking if there are opposing quadras involved. Films generally need conflict, so you'll often find those situations.
    I think Dick was an Alpha (? ESE and LII ?) vs. Gamma (LIE and ESI) conflict. It pretty much took the Alpha side though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Classic Alpha-Gamma conflict, with Deltas stuck in the middle.

    Jake - SEI-Si 9w8 so/sp
    Neytiri - SLI-Si 8w7 sx/so
    Etukan - LSE-Te 8w9 sp/so
    Moat - EII-Fi 1w2 sx/sp
    Tsu'Tey - LSE-Si 3w2 so/sp
    Colonel Quaritch- SEE-Se 8w7 sx/so
    Parker - LIE-Ni 3w4 sp/so
    Dr. Grace - ILE-Ti 6w5 sx/sp
    Norm - ILE-Ne 6w7 so/sx
    Trudy - SLE-Ti 8w7 sx/so
    I probably disagree with most of these, though I don't remember all of these people's names or possibly don't care about most of them.

    Jake - SLE was my thought (though I find the SEI suggestion intriguing)

    Neytiri - don't care (I actually see Neytiri as kind of pointless to attempt to type tbh, I think I can probably safely say she's a sensor, but that's about as far as I get... I feel like her and the rest of the blue people have a sort of void to them... an absence of a character in favor of the typical "tribal" characters, and although there are other simple characters, e.g. the colonel, they seem to jump out more as clearer stereotypes of a particular type... I mean with the colonel there's no question that the Se is everywhere, and well, practically the only thing there, but never mind that... it's like Se on steroids, incredible hulk Se vs. mere human Se, I mean with the Se amped up that high, there's no room for the other IEs, any of them)

    Next three - don't care

    The Colonel - Se and not much else. don't care if SLE or SEE. probably lean SLE. actually, I probably lean heavily SLE, but I mean there's no point in going beyond just "Se" almost. actually who am I kidding, that character does not have strong ethics. I don't want to give the impression though that I see this character as a representative of raw Se or anything, as I don't... it's more mutant Se, that's been twisted and warped in somewhat grotesque ways.

    Parker (assuming that's the company guy in charge) - my impression was ILE, but not that it was a strong one or anything, also Parker's character isn't that well delved into or anything

    Grace - my impression was ESI

    Norm - don't care, though seemed stereotype Alpha NT, prob agree w ILE

    Trudy - I would agree she's Beta and probably SLE like apparently all of Michelle Rodriquez' characters. Although as retarded as it is I got IEI-ish vibes from her character in this movie, but anyway.
    Last edited by inumbra; 06-12-2010 at 06:17 AM.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Michelle Rodriguez is pretty much stock casting for an SLE-Ti 6w7 sx/so.

    No way in HELL is Jake an SLE. Way too passive, go with the flow; a definite Enneagram 9w8.

    Grace is a major E6cp, and Sigourney Weaver is an LII, so I guess I could see the anxious-contained-reactive vibe that one might associate with an ESI, but to me she seemed much more socially relaxed than an ESI; she's wound tight, but still receptive to people like Jake. I suppose she could be seen as an LSI, but her place was with the "Alpha gang," and her forcefulness/"Se" seemed like it was supposed to just be angst from her place as a scientist whose real interests were repressed from working for "the man," thus causing her to lash out. Also she clearly does not treat people according to how she really feels about them, which is typical of peak Fi PoLRs. She's not at all controlling personally, seems somewhat harassed and scattered, silently resents being controlled, fun-loving but focused when she gets down to business.

    I suppose LSI could work just as well as ILE, but really it's a movie, and with a poorly defined character, and a tiebreaker like belonging to an archetypally Alpha group, I call her ILE-Ti.

    The Na'Vi are pretty Delta: obviously well-developed society with set traditions, living a largely self-contained lifestyle in harmony with nature. Their characters are very stock, and very Delta: LSE 8 tribal leader, EII 1 shamaness, LSE 3 future leader, Irrational daughter. Naytiri reminds me of implied, SLI.

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