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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    EIE.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    EIE.
    Unless all the quadras and values have been shifted around...humanists/humanitarians are the new beta? and directors as well...what happened to this description?

    The Administrator is very hard working; he rationally spends his time and does not like getting distracted by extraneous talk. He is very practical and economical. He strives to be competent in business issues, accumulating necessary information on problems interesting to him. He tends to take on too many responsibilities. So he needs The Humanist, which can suggest, which actions are most promising. The Humanist willingly helps in this work, doing it diligently and qualitatively.

    The Administrator does not tolerate inferior quality. He likes integrity and uprightness in relations. The Humanist, as a rule, is an exceptionally honest and conscientious partner. He willingly processes great quantities of information, draws general conclusions and schedules actions. The Administrator sees planning as a problem. On the one hand, he is sometimes too impatient, on the other – he may be distracted by outside matters, procrastinating on important issues and failing to fulfill them in due time. He accepts this fact very painfully. He needs an undemanding regulator, a provident and prescient partner.

    The second bright trait of The Administrator is his ability to take care of his family's welfare. He strives for a high standard of living. He demands quality and possesses well-developed esthetic taste. He is a kind of gourmet, likes tasty and healthy meals; parties for his close friends or family members organized by him are distinguished by very high taste. The Humanist is very reserved in communication. He is devoted to his narrow but stable circle of friends. He possesses 'clever hands' and interest in various technologies, culinary and medical recipes. While The Administrator creates comfort on a whole, his dual perfects all the details.

    The Humanist is very attentive towards people, which is not applicable to his dual who is interested more in results of work and communication rather than in the very process. For this reason The Administrator, who is usually reserved and polite, may give way to irritation and wrath, especially when people take his precious time. At such moments he loses the feeling of tactfulness, may become blunt. He needs an ever-reserved, diplomatic and peaceful partner by his side. The Humanist softens ethical mistakes of his dual, performs peacemaking activities. By his persuasions he softens harsh behavior of the Administrator, appeals to his inborn nobility, magnanimity and conscience. By doing this, he facilitates communication with others. This helps The Administrator to keep stable the circle of his business partners.

    The Humanist also foresees well the outcome of undertakings and relations. By his advice he helps his improvident dual to avoid many mistakes, the main of which is wishful thinking, especially about health and relations with people. He recognizes well the perspectives of new theories or technologies and he is among the first to struggle for their implementation.

    The Administrator is conservative enough in his views, and without such support he tends to fall into routine, may even stop in his development, stagnate in everyday chores, or lose his spirituality, romantic feelings and interest towards intellectual novelties.

    On the other hand, The Administrator is capable of thinking clearly and logically, of noticing what’s most important, of modernizing inefficient, outdated structures or technologies. He strives for higher quality and better outcome. The Humanist needs such a partner, who switches his attention from trivialities to more global undertakings. In addition, his dual attracts him as a protector and leader.

    The Humanist is a very softhearted and sensitive person. His kindness if often misused by the others. By contrast, The Administrator is full of initiative, but does not like when others impose their own initiatives on him. He may show aggression, but hardly perceives aggression of the others. The Humanist, in spite of his indecisiveness, defends his own interests silently but impertinently, if he is sure of his being right. In practical affairs he is not very capable of protecting his interests, letting his more penetrative dual do it. He tolerates The Administrator's inability to praise, make compliments, which is caused by his insufficient understanding of individual traits and human potential capabilities. The Humanist understands this aspect and considers it to be so obvious that he does not require words of approval. He likes the integrity and hard work of his short-spoken dual.

    This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people, hard work, and attention to details and integrity in everything.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Unless all the quadras and values have been shifted around...humanists/humanitarians are the new beta? and directors as well...what happened to this description?

    The Administrator is very hard working; he rationally spends his time and does not like getting distracted by extraneous talk. He is very practical and economical. He strives to be competent in business issues, accumulating necessary information on problems interesting to him. He tends to take on too many responsibilities. So he needs The Humanist, which can suggest, which actions are most promising. The Humanist willingly helps in this work, doing it diligently and qualitatively.

    The Administrator does not tolerate inferior quality. He likes integrity and uprightness in relations. The Humanist, as a rule, is an exceptionally honest and conscientious partner. He willingly processes great quantities of information, draws general conclusions and schedules actions. The Administrator sees planning as a problem. On the one hand, he is sometimes too impatient, on the other – he may be distracted by outside matters, procrastinating on important issues and failing to fulfill them in due time. He accepts this fact very painfully. He needs an undemanding regulator, a provident and prescient partner.

    The second bright trait of The Administrator is his ability to take care of his family's welfare. He strives for a high standard of living. He demands quality and possesses well-developed esthetic taste. He is a kind of gourmet, likes tasty and healthy meals; parties for his close friends or family members organized by him are distinguished by very high taste. The Humanist is very reserved in communication. He is devoted to his narrow but stable circle of friends. He possesses 'clever hands' and interest in various technologies, culinary and medical recipes. While The Administrator creates comfort on a whole, his dual perfects all the details.

    The Humanist is very attentive towards people, which is not applicable to his dual who is interested more in results of work and communication rather than in the very process. For this reason The Administrator, who is usually reserved and polite, may give way to irritation and wrath, especially when people take his precious time. At such moments he loses the feeling of tactfulness, may become blunt. He needs an ever-reserved, diplomatic and peaceful partner by his side. The Humanist softens ethical mistakes of his dual, performs peacemaking activities. By his persuasions he softens harsh behavior of the Administrator, appeals to his inborn nobility, magnanimity and conscience. By doing this, he facilitates communication with others. This helps The Administrator to keep stable the circle of his business partners.

    The Humanist also foresees well the outcome of undertakings and relations. By his advice he helps his improvident dual to avoid many mistakes, the main of which is wishful thinking, especially about health and relations with people. He recognizes well the perspectives of new theories or technologies and he is among the first to struggle for their implementation.

    The Administrator is conservative enough in his views, and without such support he tends to fall into routine, may even stop in his development, stagnate in everyday chores, or lose his spirituality, romantic feelings and interest towards intellectual novelties.

    On the other hand, The Administrator is capable of thinking clearly and logically, of noticing what’s most important, of modernizing inefficient, outdated structures or technologies. He strives for higher quality and better outcome. The Humanist needs such a partner, who switches his attention from trivialities to more global undertakings. In addition, his dual attracts him as a protector and leader.

    The Humanist is a very softhearted and sensitive person. His kindness if often misused by the others. By contrast, The Administrator is full of initiative, but does not like when others impose their own initiatives on him. He may show aggression, but hardly perceives aggression of the others. The Humanist, in spite of his indecisiveness, defends his own interests silently but impertinently, if he is sure of his being right. In practical affairs he is not very capable of protecting his interests, letting his more penetrative dual do it. He tolerates The Administrator's inability to praise, make compliments, which is caused by his insufficient understanding of individual traits and human potential capabilities. The Humanist understands this aspect and considers it to be so obvious that he does not require words of approval. He likes the integrity and hard work of his short-spoken dual.

    This dual pair is characterized with certain reticence, isolation from other people, hard work, and attention to details and integrity in everything.
    Maritsa, you focus far too much on names and descriptions, as opposed to functions and relationships, and why things are the way they are. You've always got to understand what it is that a description is trying to communicate, functionally-speaking. So, you say the LSE "likes integrity and uprightness in relations". Why is this, to your mind? What function(s) are integrity and uprightness related to? In my mind, uprightness is related to weakness in ethical functions. So, anyone with weak ethics (any logical type, basically) wants uprightness because they don't see the subtle connections between people. They want trust because they can't see that a person won't backstab unless they demonstrate that they won't. The difference between Fi types and Fe types is that in the case of Fe valuing types it needs to be demonstrated with overt emotional expression. I need my partner to reassure me that she loves me still, by not putting on a cold face, by visibly giving me as much emotional appreciation as she feels at that moment in time. More smiles, more hugs, more kisses, more "I love you"s.

  4. #4
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Maritsa, you focus far too much on names and descriptions, as opposed to functions and relationships, and why things are the way they are. You've always got to understand what it is that a description is trying to communicate, functionally-speaking. So, you say the LSE "likes integrity and uprightness in relations". Why is this, to your mind? What function(s) are integrity and uprightness related to? In my mind, uprightness is related to weakness in ethical functions. So, anyone with weak ethics (any logical type, basically) wants uprightness because they don't see the subtle connections between people. They want trust because they can't see that a person won't backstab unless they demonstrate that they won't. The difference between Fi types and Fe types is that in the case of Fe valuing types it needs to be demonstrated with overt emotional expression. I need my partner to reassure me that she loves me still, by not putting on a cold face, by visibly giving me as much emotional appreciation as she feels at that moment in time. More smiles, more hugs, more kisses, more "I love you"s.
    LSE like integrity and uprightness in relations because it's dual seeking...because I provide loyalty, integrity and uprightness (not cheating, harmony, my deep values, loving, depth).

    I see those suble connections between people, who loves who, who needs who and doesn't.
    You have that in reverse Ezra; Fi types love emotional/relationship depth as with depth in any topic we are interested in, so we strive to incorporate all methods and all possibilities in maintaining the relationship, by "nurturing" it physically rather then in demanding the other person's emotional participation...as in providing humor to them.

    I rarely agree with you on the points that you make and I don't feel that you are my activating relations.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  5. #5
    Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    She seems to use her role function (Ti) weakly with conscious Ne, has that 'whatever I can think of will fit into my argument' logic, which is attuned to weakly trying to developing a structure of the theory and finding new personal ways to express it.
    I definitely see the "'whatever I can think of will fit into my argument' logic" - which is simply indicative of Ti valuing - but the "new personal ways" stuff... not so much. She wouldn't attempt to use Ti if she didn't value it. So why Ti role rather than Ti DS?

    Ni is much more about knowing things, expressing underlying currents and backing ideas up here and there by telling idiotic though poetic stories, in the beta sense, which I don't think she does at all. Rather, she's been trying to use her role Ti this whole time, and she's mainly adept at looking at people and their potential, being sensitive and attentive with all you folk and trying to keep the harmony, even though she can also be stubborn. She doesn't talk about her Te endeavors like Gilly does, she rather fantasizes about ESTjs or whomever and hasn't really a clue about Te realistically. Her F doesn't go unnoticed, she pretty much fits what Fi is, even in her long Socionics rambles, unless someone wants to explain to me why she's Fe? Just being open and curious. Pull out an old debate thread if you will.
    I think you're basically going off the premise that she is Ti role rather than really considering that what she's saying is so related to Ti that it can't be anything but valued. Do you see me "weakly using" Ne? discojoe "weakly using" Fi? Of course not. We don't care about role, that's the point. If Maritsa is attempting to use Ti, in your eyes, that sensibly points towards a valued function. If you think it's weak, then it suggests that she's weak in it. Weak and valued Ti = Beta NF, and she sure as shit isn't an IEI.

    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    This sentence sounds very Fi in essence. It's ultimately conservative and blocked off in her defense of thinking ahead about herself and what she stays true to, in the underlying nature, something which I find really annoying about Fi, in that they are choosy about what people they want to learn about and rarely want to find a place in their role, rather finding a way of harmoniously connecting with some notion of the essence of person. (And I should note, these are never necessarily real things, roles, essences, etc. They're just subjective impressions and tools for dealing with people and defining one's emotions. So they are easily "real" in the mind and in the manifestation of social harmony, just not objective "truth," though it's debatable as to what truth really is.) So Fi judgments seem predecided and closed off, yet have that positive dominant-Fi acknowledgement and acceptance, which makes them tactful in essentially finding their natural place in going against the motivations which don't fit their ethical system. Tact over logic. You will find these tones in many of her sentences. Fe on the other hand is much more likely to assertively adapt and go along with the emotional current as to gain new perspective and useful experience of the theme or role, breaking away from the self, so to speak, something she has done minimally from time to time, though much less naturally. It did not really seem to fit what she had in mind, and was probably a discomfort. It's easier to understand in the context of Fe egos on this forum. Though these are just my weak impressions, and I understand if you don't think so. Just tell me why you think she's Fe ego. I'll have to pay closer attention to her to get more insight on the typing.
    Interesting idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Excellent work. But most importantly, I use Fi to judge and shift and catagorize the Te information...

    In many ways I soften them up because they can be too realistic and too harsh with people and I give them the individual or multitude of human element to their argument which causes them to look at that perspective and not just the raw objective information.
    Maritsa, this literally looks like you've just pulled this out of a reference book. Why is your only frame of reference a description? Why don't you apply it to YOUR LIFE? Or don't you have one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Okay Maritsa, pretend your mind was a blank slate and you knew nothing, absolute nothing about yourself, Socionics, or your past life.

    Then, which people on this forum would you feel most drawn to? Which people would you feel most comfortable with? Who would make you feel happy and stimulated? What people would make you feel the most alive just by hanging around them for long periods of time?
    ME. SHE WANTS ME!

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Too proactive and outgoing to be EII. EIE makes the most sense. Has that on-edge EJ energy in pictures.
    Yeah, good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    That was a typo, but if you would like to amateurishly infer some meaning from it, feel free to do so. I won't edit the post.
    AHAHA!

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    they are very insecure about coming off like an ass or a fool in situations where the emphasis is on Fe.
    Yeah but so are Beta STs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    I agree that this is an LSE environment.
    For the following reasons:

    1. Well managed.
    2. Clean.
    3. Very orderly.
    4. Responsible.
    5. Polite.
    6. Generous.
    7. Reliable.

    These are all very much LSE traits.
    I'm pretty sure LSIs could also easily fit this description. And probably ESIs too. Maybe ESEs too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Sounds boring.
    HAHA!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    LSE like integrity and uprightness in relations because it's dual seeking...because I provide loyalty, integrity and uprightness (not cheating, harmony, my deep values, loving, depth).
    What, and you think IEIs cheat, are shallow, unloving and don't value anything? Come on Maritsa this is fundamental shit that EVERYONE wants in a relationship. Except Alphas lol.

    I see those suble connections between people, who loves who, who needs who and doesn't.
    You have that in reverse Ezra; Fi types love emotional/relationship depth as with depth in any topic we are interested in, so we strive to incorporate all methods and all possibilities in maintaining the relationship, by "nurturing" it physically rather then in demanding the other person's emotional participation...as in providing humor to them.
    I think you're really, REALLY underestimating my dual, and EIEs. I wouldn't be surprised if most of them hate you by now. I know some do.

    I rarely agree with you on the points that you make and I don't feel that you are my activating relations.
    Okay, that's your constitutional right.

  6. #6
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Nice Te Ezra, combining everybody's post into one. It's so efficient...lol

    I KNOW BECAUSE I LOVE TE.

    I ABSOLUTELY ADORE TE AND HOW IT WORKS.

    I AM IN AWE OF IT AND ADMIRE IT EMENSELY
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Yeah but so are Beta STs.
    I guess the difference is that Beta STs are looking for environments where they can essentially let loose and act however they want (more so with ESTps) and still receive positive Fe feedback, whereas Delta STs feel like they need to act a certain way and don't know how to go about doing it.

    I do think there's a degree of vague overlap, but basically what Delta STs want is for someone to say "You don't need to worry about acting a certain way. Just be yourself and we'll accept you the way you are." and Beta STs are looking for "Don't worry about us judging you. Just come have fun with us and we'll get along fine."

    Another way of looking at it is that Delta STs fear killing the mood and as a consequence being denied acceptance, and Beta STs fear being judged harshly and then being excluded from the mood.

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