You, Your Dual, and Both Your Super-Egos Walk into a Bar and

[Mattie]

Well, you can finish the joke on your own if you want

I've personally been noticing something interesting with my relationships with SeTi and NiFe, as for one reason or another, they are the dominate types from Beta within my social sphere. Admittedly, I'm not BFFs with any of these people, but I get a feeling of kinsman-ship whenever we randomly hang out. It isn't nearly as much obvious or strong as what I feel with those who share my valued IEs, but its enough to where I talk a lot with NiFe without too much conflict and have considered an SeTi or two for becoming closer with. And I had been thinking about the idea of the IEs only manifesting or working in their blocks (so, and don't work independently, or distinctly enough to see something a sole cause of just or but as , , etc), so I wondered if this "explains" why Super-Ego relations have a spark of interest/attraction (at least in my experience, and I've seen enough example on this board of SeTi talking about dating or being friends with NeFi to assume I'm not completely off base), and possibly how, though NiFe, better relations with Beta can occur.

I feel like there is something about sharing that same exact block arrangement creates something particular to NeFi, SeTi, SiTe, and NiFe that can only be found within these four that isn't found in the other types in those quadras (TiSe, FiNe, FeNi, TeSi) because of the arrange. So, just because TeSi has and valuing might not make it as initially harmonizing than how SeTi has my dual's arrangement in their ID block. I find that the ID block comes out unconsciously when beginning relationships, then subsides into an idiosyncrasy in private life, which could work to explain Super-Ego and Extinguishment (these really need better names...) relations.

So, I was wondering if anyone else has similar experiences with these relations and have any light to shed on the topic. Opposing quadra relations have always interested me because I feel a purpose of Socionics would be to learn how to better communicate and understand your relationships with people completely different from you, and finding a way makes good use for use off the internet.

[silverchris9]

Well, if nothing else (I think I may have posted this in another topic), the extinguishment pairs will always understand one another, even if they don't always agree with one another, and can always relate that information in a way that their dual will understand/appreciate. "Translating" from id to ego. And I have found that I almost always admire SLIs, and they can even be very helpful. Although I wouldn't want their super-practical advice every moment of every day, it is extremely helpful some of the time. I believe they feel similarly about my Fe--it's nice to have someone to gently stimulate the conversation, be funny, etc. ("light" Fe seems to be OK with the SLIs I know), but they wouldn't want to deal with that all the time.

I think the most important part of getting along with opposing quadras is to maintain a sense of flexibility, of accepting that you're not going to see eye to eye, and above all, not blaming either yourself or them for seeing things in a different way. It requires stifling some of your reactions (the SLI just can't tell the IEI that he's being overdramatic all the time, and the SLE just can't tell the IEE that she's considering too many options and not being direct enough, even if that's their natural impulse). Another thing is you want to hang out with superegos when you're awake and have energy, because you do, in my experience, have to expend energy to stop your immediate reactions (which will be more "quadra-biased," to coin a phrase, than more considered reactions, and I think that's true even of people who don't know socionics), and to focus on the positive, useful or beneficial side of information, even if it is presented in a form that you don't immediately love.

Also, what is good about this person-dual-superego-extinguishment grouping can perhaps be explained somewhat using the language of temperament and club, according to which each pairing of two has something in common. Obviously, the duals (in your situation, the IEE/SLI and the IEI/SLE) have duality in common. But the extinguishments have club in common, and the superegos have temperament in common. So everyone will be on the same side about something, which builds camaraderie and helps to establish a common ground, etc. So, in this particular case, the two EP-temperament people might both want to do some new and exciting thing, like "Hey! Let's go get on this exciting ride!" or whatever. And the two IP-temperament people might both NOT want to do said new and exciting thing. So the EPs get to do their new and exciting thing without being alone (or feeling bad because they left their dual alone), and the IPs aren't guilted into doing it because there's no one to do it with their duals. This even helps to smooth over some of the few issues one might have with duality, just because, as in the (stereotypical) example given above, the extreme external differences of duality are somewhat mitigated by the external similarities one has with one's superego and one's extinguishment.

Also, you always have a lot of respect for your superego people, because they're good at what you're bad at. I have LOADS of respect for my SLI friends because they are so good at just being chill and getting things done that need to be done, like on a practical level. But they aren't half as annoying as LSEs who obsess (to my mind) over the same sorts of things. With a conflict relation, the fact that they're good at what you're bad at is only a further source of irritation, because it's like "grrr... I know you're right, but it seems wrong, but I can't criticize you on your own realm of superiority and just ARGH!" But with superegos, because the outright conflict is mitigated (you could say due to the fact that you share temperament, or due to the fact that you both initially take the same "kind" of outlook on life--that is, your leading function is the same temperament, a subtle distinction but maybe a clarifying one), it's easier to respect all of these skills that you just don't possess, because there's not the same kind of constant pressure on your polr (and for that reason, I think it's also easier when everyone is of a leading subtype). SLIs (like ILIs) are always coming up with the obvious, practical solution, which I just cannot do. And I respect them for that, even if I would prefer sometimes that that respect be from afar, rather than up close.

Also, in any duality, the partners of each club will serve similar functions for each other. That is, in duality, the ST partner will serve a similar function for the NF partner regardless of which dual pair it is, in a broad sense. The ST will always ground the NF, provide the more practical undergirding for their vision, whether the undergirding happens from or , and whether the vision is or . The point of this is that the extinguishment partners will usually be on the same "side" at least once in a given interaction. And even if you don't agree about everything, being on the same side builds camaraderie. Like this one time, I was hanging out with an SEE and an EII (not the same thing, but I think it's relevant), and the SEE said something about not liking some author, and the EII quietly made a joke about needing to like or read that author (probably Shakespeare) to be a good person. Of course, she was completely joking. But us being on the same side about that (because superficially, people of the same club will share a lot of opinions because they share a lot of the same interests, especially if they have other external similarities, i.e., culture, socioeconomic status, family background) built comradeship, in a sense. I think that happens a lot with the arrangement you're talking about (identical-dual-superego-extinguishment).

It would be interesting to see how this plays out in other groupings besides IEE-SLI-IEI-SLE. I suppose there's a total of four of these? IEE-SLI-IEI-SLE; LSE-EII-LSI-EIE; SEE-ILI-SEI-ILE; LIE-ESI-LII-ESE. It would be fun to theorize about the other three.

[Mattie]

It would be interesting to see how this plays out in other groupings besides IEE-SLI-IEI-SLE. I suppose there's a total of four of these? IEE-SLI-IEI-SLE; LSE-EII-LSI-EIE; SEE-ILI-SEI-ILE; LIE-ESI-LII-ESE. It would be fun to theorize about the other three.

Yes, they would be like new quadras in a sense, but I'm not sure exactly what they'd do. I don't seen relationships as positive or negative, I think with the correct understanding you can make any relationship work. So, in that light, what do these new groupings really offer? I feel like they are significant in the sense that they actually see reality the most similar; they are the only ones that have all the IEs in those types of blocks, they are just in different areas. So that's why I'm entertaining the idea of what would people in this group be like, assuming they are generally good natured and want to get along? It is interesting in the sense that you always seem to "understand" your super-ego and extinguishment, despite your differences. In theory, wouldn't a group of these individuals be the 'best of both worlds,' so to speak, since they are the best shot of a group having the most strengths without an uneven on another person?

[silverchris9]

Yes, they would be like new quadras in a sense, but I'm not sure exactly what they'd do. I don't seen relationships as positive or negative, I think with the correct understanding you can make any relationship work. So, in that light, what do these new groupings really offer? I feel like they are significant in the sense that they actually see reality the most similar; they are the only ones that have all the IEs in those types of blocks, they are just in different areas. So that's why I'm entertaining the idea of what would people in this group be like, assuming they are generally good natured and want to get along? It is interesting in the sense that you always seem to "understand" your super-ego and extinguishment, despite your differences. In theory, wouldn't a group of these individuals be the 'best of both worlds,' so to speak, since they are the best shot of a group having the most strengths without an uneven on another person?

They might be in some senses the most effective, insofar as they can communicate with each other and presumably with people of any other type, but it would by no means be the most comfortable, because everyone would half to be in a constant state of watching what they say and reserving themselves. I am also of the mindset that any intertype relation can work, but I believe that some only work at "long psychological distance," or otherwise, if the individuals sort of... pretend for one another. And there's one possible area of conflict. Because you do have to sort of spend a good amount of time thinking out of your id block to make a relationship like that work. But your dual is, theoretically, annoyed when you're thinking out of your id block. So ultimately, while I think it would be an externally effective group, I think the internal tension (both internal as in within each individual and internal as in intra-group) would cause it to stop functioning well eventually, at least if it was a situation where you spent a *lot* of time together.

Or maybe not. If each group had sort of a "pressure valve" of a same quadra group, or even just lots of time alone with the dual to "recharge" and feel comfortable being unreserved with their thoughts/opinions/ways of behavior, in short, if everyone was allowed to act like their own quadra sometimes instead of having to constantly keep the alternative "superego/id" viewpoint in mind, then it could work. And wikisocion does say that as long as there is an equal amount of influence of two opposing quadras in a given social group, things can work fine, and I think that's true. But I feel like I couldn't deal with a half-beta, half-delta group forever if I didn't have an all-beta or mostly-beta group to hang out with frequently as well. In fact, that's basically the set-up I have in college... some friend groups that are mostly beta (usually smaller groups, obviously) and some that are more every quadra, or even some where I am frequently the only beta, and socionically we have other similarities (and I do see us frequently bonding along those lines, especially "same club" lines).

EDIT: But I do see what you mean, theoretically, about how this is the only grouping wherein each IM Pair is blocked the same way in the same order, i.e., SiTe, SeTi, NeFi, NiFe, and the only difference is which pair of functions said IM Pair is filling. That is interesting, and definitely worth studying the effects of.

[Mattie]

They might be in some senses the most effective, insofar as they can communicate with each other and presumably with people of any other type, but it would by no means be the most comfortable, because everyone would half to be in a constant state of watching what they say and reserving themselves. I am also of the mindset that any intertype relation can work, but I believe that some only work at "long psychological distance," or otherwise, if the individuals sort of... pretend for one another.

I do wonder about this. I know sometimes I have the mindset of "everyone can get along YAY!" but I know that there is a part that is... Well, not fake, but generally not acting completely you. But, whether this be a pro or con about me, I'm flexible enough to where if I sense something about a person I can adjust my comfort levels, and I don't know if this is me or something in general everyone does. I admit that I don't have any close Beta friends, I don't really spend a lot of time with anyone who is Beta, and I do have some negative relationships with them. There is a bit of regulation that does have to go on, but at the same time, I know I couldn't be stuck in my own quadra forever, I'd go nuts. There's also something Adam and Lilith about your interactions with your super-ego... But that might just be me The hard part about this for me is that the Id block is generally unconscious and you can't really USE it, it's something offhandedly done. So, it would seem that you would always want to meet with these other two types only at a frequency that doesn't have you trying to use your Id block, but having long enough moments of lulls to allow for a peak. Have to think more on it.