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Thread: Jungian Dichotomies & DarkAngelFireWolf69's Subtypes & Visual Identification

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    JohnDo's Avatar
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    Default Jungian Dichotomies & DarkAngelFireWolf69's Subtypes & Visual Identification

    Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69 introduced different subtype systems in the past. They are all based on subdividing the Jungian dichotomies into 4 categories:

    1.) Accepting/Producing uses not 2 but 4 categories of Rationality/Irrationality. You can be very rational, quite rational, quite irrational or very irrational.
    2.) DCNH also uses not 2 but 4 categories to describe Introversion/Extraversion. Very introverted, quite introverted, quite extraverted, very extraverted.
    3.) His system with 8 subtypes introduces the Primary/Secondary dichotomy. So a third Jungian dichotomy is subdivided into 4 categories (depending on your DCNH subtype).
    4.) Using 16 subtypes we just have to look at the four Jungian dichotomies and divide them into 4 categories each.

    I am very introverted, very intuitive, quite logical, quite rational. So I am an INTj with an INFp subtype. I just wanted to clarify that because a lot of people on this forum are of the opinion
    - that dichotomies are not important,
    - that subtypes are not important
    - or that subtypes have nothing to do with dichotomies.

    Victor DarkAngelFireWolf69, the most cited socionist after Augusta, works a lot with subtypes and dichotomies as you can see. So everyone who says that subtypes or dichotomies "are not socionics" obviously disagrees with the most important socionist...

    But the more interesting point is: There is clearly a correlation between shape of face and subtype. I made 3 interesting discoveries during the last months and the fourth discovery will certainly come...

    1.) The first thing I discovered was that subtypes with a strengthened conscious function have roundish faces whereas subtypes with a strengthened unconscious function have longish faces. See this thread. So you might start with this Roundish/Longish dichotomy if you are interested in Dichotomies & Subtypes & V.I.

    2.) The next dichotomy I discovered some months ago was Angular/Soft. Subtypes with a strengthened base or demonstrative function have rather soft faces, subtypes with a strengthened creative or ignoring function have angular faces. The combination of Roundish/Longish and Angular/Soft makes it possible to diagnose DCNH subtypes by V.I. - but only if you are experienced enough and already know the main type of the person you want to type. Description and examples here.

    3.) The third dichotomy I discovered some weeks ago. This one is necessary to determine DarkAngelFireWolf69's 8 IE subtypes by V.I. - I think I'll call it Mathematical/Natural. Mathematical means a face looks really like a circle, a square, an oval or a rectangle. Natural means "angular circle", "rounded square", "piriform oval" or "broad rectangle":

    base: circle
    role: angular circle

    creative: square
    vulnerable: rounded square

    demonstrative: oval
    mobilizing: piriform oval

    ignoring: rectangle
    suggestive: broad rectangle

    See this thread for explanations and examples.

    Currently I'm trying to find the fourth "VI dichotomy" to distinguish between 256 types by VI. This one is really subtle and it is very difficult to descibe because you need to know a lot of people of the same type...
    Last edited by JohnDo; 05-05-2010 at 04:25 PM.

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    Does EM Dual type match up with DCNH type/subtypes always? H-LII's can only be LII-(ILI)(IEI)(SLI)(SEI)?

    EDIT: Would that also mean that to find your dual type, you can find your DCNH subtype on wikisocion, and then read the closest DCNH types (for LII-H: SLI-N, ILI-N, SEI-N, IEI-N?) to determine which subtype you are closest to?

    If so... badass!
    ILI (FINAL ANSWER)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Does EM Dual type match up with DCNH type/subtypes always? H-LII's can only be LII-(ILI)(IEI)(SLI)(SEI)?

    EDIT: Would that also mean that to find your dual type, you can find your DCNH subtype on wikisocion, and then read the closest DCNH types (for LII-H: SLI-N, ILI-N, SEI-N, IEI-N?) to determine which subtype you are closest to?

    If so... badass!
    According to tcaudilllg, no. I think both IM and EM types are supposed to share a subtype, though. Or something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    According to tcaudilllg, no. I think both IM and EM types are supposed to share a subtype, though. Or something like that.
    I'm H-LII and I identify most with EII EM. So are you saying that my EM type would also be an H subtype?
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I'm H-LII and I identify most with EII EM. So are you saying that my EM type would also be an H subtype?
    I thought I read something like this, yes, but I'm not sure who said it.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    According to tcaudilllg, no.
    If they don't, the personality structure would be so complex that there would be no way to humanly be able to keep track of it all. IMO that point is already reached with the introduction of a second type, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispy View Post
    Does EM Dual type match up with DCNH type/subtypes always? H-LII's can only be LII-(ILI)(IEI)(SLI)(SEI)?
    Tcaudillg's idea of a dual-type is not quite the same as DarkAngelFireWolf69's second type. I recommend to ignore dual-type theory completely and stick to DarkAngelFireWolf69's systems as long as tcaudillg is unable to offer convincing explanations and descriptions. Dual-type is nothing but a guessing game so far...

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    Tcaudillg's idea of a dual-type is not quite the same as DarkAngelFireWolf69's second type. I recommend to ignore dual-type theory completely and stick to DarkAngelFireWolf69's systems as long as tcaudillg is unable to offer convincing explanations and descriptions. Dual-type is nothing but a guessing game so far...
    No. It's exactly the same thing. Exactly the same guessing game. You make a great case against your own practices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    No. It's exactly the same thing. Exactly the same guessing game. You make a great case against your own practices.
    DarkAngelFireWolf69's systems are logically consistent. Not a guessing game at all. You just need more experience...

    I still believe that tcaudillg looks at the same phenomenon from a different perspective. Sooner or later he will realize that a C-LII can't be LII-LSI but only LII-IEE, LII-ILE, LII-SEE or LII-SLE...

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    DarkAngelFireWolf69's systems are logically consistent. Not a guessing game at all. You just need more experience...
    I was using dual types/DCNH long before you even knew about DarkAngelFireWolf69. I've been through the optimism phase that you're in.

    Logically consistent is a vacuous phrase, by the way. Empirical verifyability is where it's at. Until you can demonstrate the validity of your beliefs in a controlled, experimental setting, they are nothing but idle fantasies.

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    ._. Aiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDo View Post
    DarkAngelFireWolf69's systems are logically consistent. Not a guessing game at all. You just need more experience...

    I still believe that tcaudillg looks at the same phenomenon from a different perspective. Sooner or later he will realize that a C-LII can't be LII-LSI but only LII-IEE, LII-ILE, LII-SEE or LII-SLE...
    Why don't you try to reduce instead of expand? Like, go back to 8 Jungian types and treat socionics as a two subtypes system to complement it?

    Hello, I'm , subtype. What are you?

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