hmmmmm for once i agree. his posting style seems more EP-ish. lol
hmmmmm for once i agree. his posting style seems more EP-ish. lol
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
hmmm.... okay.
Maritsa, at the risk of inciting your wrath I'm afraid I'm going to, as many of others here already have, disagree with you. I'm sorryDon't get too mad at me hey?
"This is so funny, it's like saying duality isn't all about what is great about a relationship and yet there's your dual, right next to you waving...lol...it almost contridicts what you write about your experience in an odd way."
Well Maritsa I'm not saying dual relationships are bad at all. On the contrary I'm saying that they are bloody great and I'm trying to point out why they're so great. I think I made a point in my previous post as to others not being able to get it (I'm not singling you out Maritsa, I'm referring to everyone as a whole). Basically, I've noticed that VixenDogFox keeps beating herself up over the fact that she keeps snapping at people and I'm just saying that an LII simply wouldn't care. A dynamic that I've noticed between my relationships with ese's is that even though they can get incredibly emotional its usually over something really dumb and all i have to do is just sit there and nod my head (hehehe, i'm doing a great job here making friends aren't i? VixenDogFox said it herself though, things usually are not as big of a deal as she had thought...). Even though it usually isn't, if it is something serious then I'm pretty confident in my ability to solve it. And if I can't...hehehe...
VixenDogFox:
"Like it would be good if they ignored the "fit" part of it and addressed my concerns. Maybe said things like, "So you're upset because of (BLANK)? Tell me more about it." and even if I was all contrary and said they didn't understand or something, if the other person held a calm ground, a steady reaction like that would probably help it not escalate and I would feel like the person was making an effort."
Yeah, basically that.
I would like to make a point that I have been snapped at by others and it is not always so good. LSE's snap at everyone and when they do it to me it is not pleasant (no they are not your duals Maritsa, don't even start). LSI's snap at me from time to time, but I see it as somewhat childish and even pitiful. SLE's are terrifying.
Pinocchio and Blaze... well I don't know about you Blaze but Pinocchio you have lost my respect
As for me not being an LII... I will accept that as an unlikely possibility. Only because I have been wrong about it in the past. But as I have learned more about socionics (and myself) I have grown more confident in my self typing. My judgment is not based on only my behavior but my relationships with others and my attitude towards the world. What type do you think I am? It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.
And one more thing. Maritsa, you're a SEI.
LII
"And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high."
Ayrton Senna
What kind of SEI gets morally outraged?Originally Posted by lagunaloire11
And one more thing. Maritsa, you're a SEI.
You can place your typing comments of me in here, please, thank you... (for the sake of keeping things organized -I'm trying! lol)
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...maritsa33.html
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Removed at User Request
oh well... good form Pinocchio, maybe next time huh? I just thought it might be fun.
Yes I'm going to use some of my personal experiences to draw some conclusions because I believe I'm entitled to (I will admit that it's tricky, however). I mean, socionics is, after all, the science and study of human relationships, isn't it? Maybe this is not how you see it? Aren't I allowed to analyze my relationships? Maybe that is not how you meant it and you will have to explain yourself.
A point (and once again, no offense intended at all): maybe that's your PoLR talking? I believe thatmanifests itself in an inability to understand others other than though pure logic? or something like that. I'm not sure on the details, I haven't been bothered. ILE's are a mystery to me and maybe I'll be able to figure them out when my knowledge of socionics deepens. That is, of course, if you really are an ILE... maybe you are, maybe you are not. I'm sure you will allow me to harbor some doubts as to your type as you have to mine.
My interest in socionics is much simpler: duality! Yeah it's great and everyone loves duality and if you don't you're lying. I just love the idea. Maybe you can tell me some of your experiences with your dual? If you want to you should PM me or something, I don't feel it's right that we've hijacked VixenDogFox's thread.
You don't think I'm an LII? As if! Pffft... damn you people, all you people, how are LII's meant to be? Maybe someone will be able to create a thread for typing me as well? Or maybe I'm not that popular yet?
And Maritsa.. you're not morally outraged. ha! you're just plain outraged
Last edited by lagunaloire11; 06-10-2010 at 08:11 AM.
LII
"And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high."
Ayrton Senna
I can see how you might be a female LII, but you type distinctly different from most male LII's I've seen.
ILI (FINAL ANSWER)
I'll show you, but you need to come with me. This is a dangerous place.
i'm holding off on your type...we will see...there's no real reason to doubt a person's self typing. but you have a lot of energy, which is awesome. welcome to the forum! :-)
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
My posting style is mostly Ep-ish. Well, not as much here, but still. Perhaps it's a sort of social persona?
LII
Removed at User Request
Crispy man, wtf!? What do you mean female LII? Screw you man (what kind of name is Crispy anyway? ugh).
I know what you're thinking!! no, I'm not gay... pfft, bastards.
hmmm lagunix... i think that's an excellant idea.
Socionics might be wrong though right? We can only accept the rules of a system as long as they work in the real world. Otherwise, whats the point? I'm not saying that everybody should change the rules and throw things around as they see fit, no that would never work, it's just that I consider myself intelligent enough to know what works and what does not. It's not ignorance, I promise.
I think you'll be pleased to know that for a long time I thought myself an IEE. Some have pointed out that my writing style is EP-ish. For around two years I thought I was an IEE but I ran into some barriers. If anything this has taught me how how little I knew of myself. I came to a conclusion that either socionics was wrong... or I simply wasn't an IEE. You see, I'm not changing things around Pinnochio, in fact I'm doing the opposite.
Zed you're on to something there. I'm impressed.
I'm always open to opinions and thoughts. Maybe I'm not an LII but something else? I've mentioned this before that I have grown more confident of my typing as my knowledge of socionics has deepened. It is by no means absolute.
"Yes, I'll be relieved to know that there is a possibility to get over my PoLR disability."
I think not. Wishful thinking Pinnochio.
I had all last night to think about this. PoLR, what an interesting concept no? It's not just a matter of valuing/applying a certain function... I'm afraid it plays a much bigger part in our lives than we would like. It is something akin to the often used phrase "the human condition".
I'm sure we would all like to believe that we have some degree of control over our PoLR but the fact is that we do not. You do realize that although you could "use touchy words or emotional influence on people, when I got their "soft spot" in both Fi and Fe manners" but you'd never be able to empathize with others the same way a EII could right? You're never going to have their insights into human psychology and behavior. You're just not.
I have seen unhealthy EII's in action and they can rip up your soul from something as simple as a denied smile. I have seen them manipulate people mercilessly for years while maintaining this image of a gentle martyr, the humble, the weak, the ever helpful servant. I know this because she is in my family and only now has it dawned on me her maliciousness and her true intent. And so I'll ask her why and she won't be able to come up with an answer. Probably because of the injuries she believes to have suffered at the hands of others... and it's impossible to explain it to the rest of my family, they won't believe me. Sometimes I think I'm wrong, that I must be going insane. But that's how good she is. Do you reckon you could do that? I think not.
How about me? I can be aggressive. I can be violent. I like to think I'm strong. But I have know now that I am not. Well, at least not when I'm compared to SLE's. Their understanding of extroverted sensing is far beyond mine. If I do get an edge over them in regards to e sensing (I might win a physical confrontation, for example) it is an allusion and only temporary.
An SLE and I got into an argument and he wasted no time at all making personal. So I punched him. He was surprised because if you knew me you would know that I am not an imposing person, physically. Many people are surprised when I snap at them or when I... well basically, punch them, and it's not their fault when they are caught a little off guard. I thought that he had learned his lesson. He had. But that wasn't the end of it.
Although (to his credit) he was fair about it, it wasn't something he could easily accept. So he kept poking me, finding little chinks in my personality. Once he had found one he exploited it. And this time he was ready for me.
I have read a few descriptions of (what are they called, information elements?) on this site and others. They connect e sensing to many things including volitional qualities and energy. Maybe it is due to the idiosyncratic nature of language itself but I am inclined to disagree. It's just not that straightforward.
My system (yes, it is mine) is slightly different. The information element is of no use by itself. sigh* I really don't want to explain this because I feel this post is long enough as it is. Basically, you cannot say that somebody is fierce or intimidating just because someone is skilled in the use of e sensing. My understanding of e sensing is simply an awareness of what is going on around you in a physical sense. Therefore it may translate to volitional qualities, energy or whatever. But you cannot say that somebody who is not skilled in e sensing can't be intimidating etc. Because to successfully intimidate someone would require other information elements (eg. e feeling, maybe a bit of e thinking as well). In this way Ti-PoLR certainly does not mean dumb people, but it sure as hell means that they are not going to like it when I act in (in their view) an unethical way and they have yet to see the truth of a situation... (some IEE's I have known in the past)
I know what you might say, that it's all just my theories, that it's all my ideas, my experiences, that it has nothing at all to do with socionics. But I was a devout follower of astrology before I discovered this. My faith in it was always waining. Why? Well why do you think
I'm creating a new thread and it is in this forum and it's called Lagunix
Actually, on second thought.... maybe there are no religious ILE's
LII
"And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high."
Ayrton Senna
After reading that, I don't think you're LII at all. The confirmation bias has got you bad.
LII
no no no zed. There is a difference between what I am doing and confirmation bias. What is the difference? confirmation bias is when somebody selectively chooses information to support a theory or an idea. the difference is that I've already considered all of the information and I am simply selecting what works and what does not. It's a bit like saying... astrology? nup, its bullshit. I'm gonna make my own rules. by what authority you say? My authorityThe theory or the idea is mutable - its the information that is not. It's not ignorance everyone! It's ARROGANCE
Hence the new term "Lagunix".
I would appreciate it if all new posts concerning me (lol) are posted in my new thread. Thank you.
The majority of my previous post was to dispute Pinnochios description of PoLR. he made a good post and I still think think that he may be right... but i want him to break my post down for me. Am I wrong? Why am I wrong? How am I wrong?
I would like, Pinnochio if you still care, to consider my thoughts on PoLR and if you disagree to simply tell me why. If you want a clearer and more in depth explanation I will give you one.
I will reserve my right to regard the "formal" rules of socionics with a little bit a skepticism. By my knowledge, I believe that is a very Alpha thing to do
I actually do hold in very high esteem my own experiences but I can see that they are not going down very well. I will spare this forum of them in the future.
I also want to add that I do not consider myself an expert in socionics. i seem to have gotten most of it but if I am being hugely wrong in some way, in any way then tell me where i'm wrong and how. don't just say i'm wrong without a reason... sadly, in this world, that happens far too much.
remember, new thread people! Lagunix!
sigh* maybe I am an IEE...
Last edited by lagunaloire11; 06-11-2010 at 10:43 AM.
LII
"And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high."
Ayrton Senna
Removed at User Request
Great insight poster. I have been in a long-term relationship with what I believe is a person whose minds works like an ESE's might, and this dynamic of their emotionality and my trying to stay cool about things really plays out between us. Socionics helped improve our relationship because I really have tried to be more logical and level headed, and letting things "slide" (I am just as emotional as they are, so yes I do try to "act" LII like), and also let them sort of care take me by letting them pull me by the hand and getting out and involving myslef in peoples worlds (BBQ's, staff holidays, family dinners and such), even though I do not feel I really need this sort of "help". I find that many ESE's really respond well to reassurance and trust that they are "good-willed people at heart". Well I suppose any human being would, but ESE's are like the kid that always tries to please everybody, and they really need to be needed in a way. Not an unhealthy need, just a "Come on I'll show you the world" attitude. Many of our issues stem from personality influences. In many ways this relationship is why I devoured socionics in the begining. I am aware of the limits, however.hmmm.... okay.
Maritsa, at the risk of inciting your wrath I'm afraid I'm going to, as many of others here already have, disagree with you. I'm sorry
). Basically, I've noticed that VixenDogFox keeps beating herself up over the fact that she keeps snapping at people and I'm just saying that an LII simply wouldn't care. A dynamic that I've noticed between my relationships with ese's is that even though they can get incredibly emotional its usually over something really dumb and all i have to do is just sit there and nod my head (hehehe, i'm doing a great job here making friends aren't i? VixenDogFox said it herself though, things usually are not as big of a deal as she had thought...). Even though it usually isn't, if it is something serious then I'm pretty confident in my ability to solve it. And if I can't...
VixenDogFox:
"Like it would be good if they ignored the "fit" part of it and addressed my concerns. Maybe said things like, "So you're upset because of (BLANK)? Tell me more about it." and even if I was all contrary and said they didn't understand or something, if the other person held a calm ground, a steady reaction like that would probably help it not escalate and I would feel like the person was making an effort."
Yeah, basically that.
.
I take it you and your shoulder self-type as LII?
I'd just like to add to luganloire's quote, from 2010 (nice thread bump btw), that even if an ESE is mad in the moment over something silly, they don't appreciate being told then how silly they're being. Let them cool off first.
But yes, reassurance goes a LONG way. So do hugs.
Totally agree to that. Let them have their feelings.I'd just like to add to luganloire's quote, from 2010 (nice thread bump btw), that even if an ESE is mad in the moment over something silly, they don't appreciate being told then how silly they're being. Let them cool off first.
.
Relationship of illiusionment. So close....... yet so far.
Four a day, that's the minimum, not the maximum.
Too many walls of texts I'd read it but.... yeah
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