Maybe We Aren't Duals

[Trevor]

But how can you expect another person to be calm and kindly concerned when you're being so unreasonable and emotional and basically attacking them? I can't figure that one out.

Knowing where you're coming from + care. If they know where you're coming from and don't care for you then it can become really bad. Soul-destroy-alert. If they don't know where you're coming from but they care nevertheless then things will probably turn well, but it will take some time. If they don't know where you're coming from and don't care for you at the same time then it's up to you to define the terms of a relationship (to forgive them or not).

I don't know how well this makes things clear for you, tuturututu(?)

I'm fine, thanks. Just don't get mad .

[Beautiful sky]

...Now I've truly messed up the relationship that I never wanted to end. Dunno, if he's my dual or not; definitly understanding between us and growth, just lots of other stupid issues. I don't want anyone else . ever.

Well, don't mess our relationship up. It will help you to learn to be more patient with your feelings instead of reacting so quickly. The more conscious you are about your actions and the way they are reflected back to you the better the decisions that you make....that's a good start for you and maybe a little bit of my wisdom.

[Beautiful sky]

Duh. I know what my problem is. As does VDF...it's just become a part of who I am, though I know life will kick it out of me eventually...I know in my particular field, I can't throw emotional outbursts and not expect severe consequences...just wish...I wasn't like this.
he told me to call him in two months when I finally do move out.

Don't wish things for yourself (that's kind of like getting lucky or waiting to winning the emotion prize); work with yourself, that's a more hopeful and positive way of looking at it. I don't think an NF person would say that to you anyway. We are much too loving and extremely enduring individuals to make comments like that to people.

[redbaron]

sarah, you could probably still get him back. just take a breather for awhile and when you do talk to him again, in two months or whenever it is, show him that you've pulled yourself together and can handle a relationship, that you're a happy person with or without him and he'll probably want you back. I mean, nobody want an unhealthy partner, dual or not. But if you feel like you had something valuable, he probably felt that way too. Guys' feelings can change quickly. Just something to think about...

[Brilliand]

Well, don't mess our relationship up. It will help you to learn to be more patient with your feelings instead of reacting so quickly. The more conscious you are about your actions and the way they are reflected back to you the better the decisions that you make....that's a good start for you and maybe a little bit of my wisdom.

It is a profoundly erroneous truism, repeated by all copy-books and by eminent people when they are making speeches, that we should cultivate the habit of thinking about what we are doing. The precise opposite is the case. Civilization advances by extending the numbers of important operations which we can perform without thinking about them.
--Alfred North Whitehead

I've been waiting to throw that quote at someone ever since my professor put it as flavor text at the top of a test.

[krieger]

Socionics does this to you every once in a while. 99% of the time you later end up concluding the old belief was right all along.

[Beautiful sky]

It is a profoundly erroneous truism, repeated by all copy-books and by eminent people when they are making speeches, that we should cultivate the habit of thinking about what we are doing. The precise opposite is the case. Civilization advances by extending the numbers of important operations which we can perform without thinking about them.
--Alfred North Whitehead

I've been waiting to throw that quote at someone ever since my professor put it as flavor text at the top of a test.

You have NO idea how funny you are; and this forum is full of funny people and things. I haven't stoped laughing.

[crazedrat]

if I remember right VI seemed to confirm LII. what type would he be besides LII?

[Brilliand]

Yeah, I would dump you too.

That's three mean posts in a row... couldja stop it?

[Creepy-sarahdxwrappd]

it's fine. lesson learned to never post anything personal.

[Exodus]

Socionics does this to you every once in a while. 99% of the time you later end up concluding the old belief was right all along.

Yup, and the other 1% totally changes how you see socionics.

[Trevor]

That's three mean posts in a row... couldja stop it?

I could try, but you shouldn't expect much because I'm sick and spiteful man and that's how I roll.

EDIT: It should've been "you shouldn't be expecting much". There you go, the emperor is naked.

[redbaron]

I could try, but you shouldn't expect much because I'm sick and spiteful man and that's how I roll.

batman is not sick and spiteful. I know this because I used to watch the show.

[Brilliand]

I could try, but you shouldn't expect much because I'm sick and spiteful man and that's how I roll.

I just meant, stop in this one instance... and perhaps not so many in one burst in the future. Occasional spiteful posts are tolerable.

Btw, the above post doesn't sound like you in general as I first read it... do you mean that you're physically sick and that is making you spiteful?

[Trevor]

... do you mean that you're physically sick and that is making you spiteful?

No.

[Aiss]

No.

Your ESE ran away and you're insulting the one who's there?

[Trevor]

Your ESE ran away and you're insulting the one who's there?

She's ESE?

[Aiss]

She's ESE?

It's Vixen's thread. She's one.

[Trevor]

I mean sarahxyxsx.

[krieger]

Yup, and the other 1% totally changes how you see socionics.

I've never had it happen to me. The 1% would cause intellectual suicide. There are some blows you can't recover from. When you invest for several years in a self-typing and find out it's wrong, there can be no optimism about you ever figuring yourself out.

[Nowisthetime]

And now this problem that keeps recurring (every several months) where I feel completely overlooked in the bedroom (I won't get anymore specific than that).

Just a random thought: Maybe sexuality can be an potential area where duals get problems because of cultural influence. The natural cooperation between duals might conflict with cultural norms of how we are supposed to be in bed, which can create hurt feelings etc. When duality says one thing and gender roles another thing there can be a problem.

I don't know if this relates to your relationship at all. You just made me think about this. Good luck to you.

[Exodus]

I've never had it happen to me. The 1% would cause intellectual suicide. There are some blows you can't recover from. When you invest for several years in a self-typing and find out it's wrong, there can be no optimism about you ever figuring yourself out.

I don't think it's very likely that most of anyone's typings are correct at first. I had to re-type almost my entire immediate family. It sucked for a while, but afterwards I understood things a lot better.

And plus, there are plenty of people on this forum who have radically changed their self-typings.

[krieger]

I know what you're saying. The thing is at a certain point you reach a plateau and you get a fixed basis of knowledge that is very hard to bring down. That's when failure gets equated with intellectual suicide and doubting becomes a pointless endeavor.

If I found out I am not INTj in this system, I'd have to reject the system. Simple as that.

In other words, that "when you invest for several years" part of my statement wasn't trivial.

[Exodus]

ok, yeah.

[xerx]

I tend to share too much, and wish I could take stuff back sometimes. Something I've gotten better at over the years but not fully.

My ISTp mom thinks I am too loose with my tongue.

I have the same problem.

[Blaze]

I have the same problem.

me too. if i thought of it, it must need to come out. lol

[Beautiful sky]

I have the same problem.

Share all you want; I will listen to all of it; I love it.

[xerx]

Share all you want; I will listen to all of it; I love it.

Thank you Maritsa.

[Airman]

I live an ESFJ country and the most ESFJ city of it. I think ESFJ people tend to talk too much and also be too close to people they dont know, act like they know people whom they dont.

For example if you take a taxi here the driver is likely to come up with some conversation in a tone and manner which is almost funny, it´s like the guy is your uncle or cousin talking to you. I think this is a problem with ESFJs too. People here think that ESTJs are cold, mean, egocentric people, just because we´re not overtalking and bubbling with emotion all the time. Perhaps ESFJ has repressed Te or Ti?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[betterthandead]

Different subtypes? Different values? Whatever it is, this isn't a complete and will never be a complete dual relationship. Which is fine for friendship, but not anything romantic.

PS. Never take relationship advice from those NF personality types..they're a little kookoo in the head.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[FDG]

Shut the fuck up, you don't know everybody's relationship. What you say definitely doesn't apply to me, probably to other quadras - eg. Beta, life doesn't make sense for them without some "problems".

There are of course trivial little ones, but there are some big differences between Dual relationship and others:
1. these "problems" are not concerning dissatisfaction, feeling awkward, feeling estranged, and anything like not being you.
2. these problems don't grow in time, as in frequency or amplitude, they are just isolated happenings, not eroding.

Please shut up and learn, this is not a psychological cabinet to make people feel better, but Socionics, which has only two options for any conclusion: true or false. This is Duality and this is probably the most important thing about Socionics, you can't just wreck it with your ignorance.

Yeah I agree. Some duals might not be compatible because one of them is psychologically damaged, but otherwise it's like that.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[FDG]

You need to be hospitalized.

[Brilliand]

Pinocchio, I infact wasn't generalizing you stupid prick. I was TALKING ABOUT HER RELATIONSHIP.
I said what RIGHT did Betterthandead have to declare VDF's relationship as being unsuited for a relationship? HE was generalizing you dumb fuck. NOT ME.

LIFE ISN'T ALL ABOUT SOCIONICS. yes, I do understand that subtypes and whatnot can affect a relationship, but HOW IS HE TO KNOW THAT SO MUCH SO THAT HE DECLARED THAT VDF and her BF are unsuited for another???

Read what I'm actually saying before you retailate.

He said that all duality is perfect, you said that no duality is perfect - contraries. Both generalizing.

[Creepy-sarahdxwrappd]

You need to be hospitalized.

because I think socionics is not a "solve all"? yeah, ok.


My whole opinion on the matter was to keep it in context. He doesn't know VDF nor her bf. she wrote on here merely to vent. They'd a problem over an issue concerning sex. Maybe it's my age, but that problem doesn't seem insolvable, and saying as an online spectator that her and him will never work out is rediculous and rude. But glad to see how your installed socionics filter is shading you from the realities of life that what I was saying: not just duality isn't perfect but nothing is perfect.

[lagunaloire11]

Hello VixenDogFox! Alright, my dual!! Waves frantically*

This thread is totally redundant but I don't care.

My guess is that he is not your dual. Sorry. You shouldn't take my opinion too seriously because I have not met your boyfriend but still... shrugs*

A point that I would like to make before I continue is that socionics is not all there is to human relationships. We are learning all the time, about ourselves and about others. Socionics is being developed constantly, things are being added and errors ironed out (it is isn't it? I'm pretty sure it is).

I have a couple of ese's in my life. One is my friend (my only friend at the moment, you will probably be able to guess why), another my aunt and another a lady who used to work in my parents shop. My interaction with them has been, as per most duality descriptions, quite smooth, although others might not see it that way.

"Also, sometimes I take out my frustration about other things by snapping at him... But I always realize my error right away and apologize..."

"By now? Try all my life. HAHA. I know that I cause emotional upheavals around me now and then. Bursts is maybe an understatement hehe..."

"Emotional upheavals. Once they're over I feel better, but then really guilty..."

"We are great to live with until we throw a fit."

"But how can you expect another person to be calm and kindly concerned when you're being so unreasonable and emotional and basically attacking them? I can't figure that one out."

"My LII actually can handle me better than most, but sometimes if it seems like the approach is not working I can tell he gives the patience thing up and then gets irritated by my behavior, or worse, rarely, he then gets pulled into it and gets upset too. But I have to be really steadily obnoxious for that to happen."

I have seen my friend be really harsh to others in a totally irrational way, even though most of the time he would be trying to make everyone happy. It would make me wonder where it came from and why he did it, I was really surprised to see that side of him. But he never had to apologize to me in any way or hold anything back. It wasn't anything special, we just got along (that's what duality is, isn't it?).

There was this one time when he got a call from his mom telling him that his brother had been involved in a car accident. He literally broke down and started crying. I'm not joking but I laughed, I thought he wasn't being serious. My thinking was that if his brother was in a serious condition his mother would have been a lot more emotional over the phone and judging by my friends tone of voice whilst speaking to her she was clearly not.

In the end it turned out that I was right. He had sustained only very minor injuries (can't remember what they were), and a few moments later he was happy again and it was as though nothing had ever happened. And as for my mistake? He never even noticed. Or maybe he did notice? I'm not sure but he never held it against me. I don't know why. The sheer stupidity of it made me feel like an ass. But it was over before it even began.

But you do realize how badly it could have gone right?

I have a few reasons why it went the way it did but they're all totally irrelevant right now.

There was another time when I was helping a woman load things into the back of her car. She looked absolutely miserable (I assume she was going through some rough times, emotionally) and I couldn't really be bothered so I just kinda threw her things into the back and I was about to leave when the ESE woman who worked in my shop saw how rude I was being (she was friends with the woman i had been rude to, she's bloody friends with everyone) and she went nuts at me. I was a little taken back but I did know that it was my mistake. I sorta grumbled and walked away but in the end, she apologized for me.

I didn't hold it against her. So what if she got a little pissed at me? I've had worse. I could see her reasoning and why she blew up at me. And when she came back, it was as though nothing had ever happened.

Can you see my point?

I'm really sorry but someone has to set things straight. No way, I don't think you're duals at all - that being said, who cares if you're not duals? If you feel its bad, for whatever reason, then you make a cut and you get on with your life. If you feel it's good... then it's all good and there's nothing to worry about. But you're the one who is supposed to make that decision, not anyone else.

You know your relationship with your boyfriend better than anyone on this forum.

"My ISTp mom thinks I am too loose with my tongue."

LOL.

[Beautiful sky]

Hello VixenDogFox! Alright, my dual!! Waves frantically*

LOL.

LOL

This is so funny, it's like saying duality isn't all about what is great about a relationship and yet there's your dual, right next to you waving...lol...it almost contridicts what you write about your experience in an odd way.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request